Youth suspended for speaking Spanish

http://www.kansascitykansan.com/articles/2005/12/05/news/local/news4.txt

I understand it if it was in an academic setting- but at LUNCH time? WTF? :wtf:

Heaven forbid a child should be bilingual--in most cultures, that would be embraced--but not in Amurikkka.

You need to learn a second language, just don't #$@#$ speak it in our school!

should refuse to talk and say it's because they don't want to be suspended! :evilgrin:

I am a Spanish teacher!

Are Spanish teachers allowed to speak Spanish in that Kansas school? ;-)

The thinking is "if English was good enough for me, it's good enough for my kids. Besides, this is America, we don't need no other language."

Americans should never lower themselves down to foreigners level by speaking their language. :sarcasm:

A woman in a master's degree class with me talked about a huge fight in her area over opening a dual-language immersion school for elementary students, where children are taught in English and another language throughout the day. We have one in DC where parents -- and not just the rich yuppie scum either -- camp out all night to try to get their kids into one of the few slots open to those who don't live in the neighborhood. My classmate talked about how opposed most people were to it: They didn't see why their kids needed to know another language. And this was in a community where the major employer is a nuclear research center!

My fellow Americans scare me most of the time.

The whole state seems to be regressing at an ever increasing speed! :eyes:

On edit: I just want to be clear ... I am not including Kansas DUers in the state's regressive population. You all must drink bottled water, which would explain why you haven't been turned into pod people. :-)

"Is there a carbon monoxide leak in this house?"

I mean really. Hesus Christos.

Are you trying to spell "jesus christ" in spanish?

don't mind me and hope no offense.

some right here on DU.

That said - :)

What the fuck?!?!?!?!

How embarrassing! Good golly! Stupid! Ignorant!

Is it DUers posting a lot about Kansas? Or, is it that a lot of crazy, bass ackward crap is coming outta that state recently? Yo quisiera saber. :shrug:

more so than before

I get the feeling the nuts in Kansas crave the attention as well. Nuts feeling bold so they act on their ignorance - and it makes the news.

It's just a feeling I have

:thumbsup:
I think you may be correct.;)

And Toto, too.

Antes que te botan de aqui por hablar Espanol.

Então, vou mudar ao outro idioma. :D

From what I gather, you're "switching to another language"? Me, I'm just an average bilingal, bicultural American.

Desculpe! É português. Eu sou um Americano doido... louco. :crazy: :D

Esa idioma es muy similiar a Espanol. Algunas palabras. Pero que es "doido"? Es loco? Y te ere Portuges o Brazilero?

... ou "louco" em português. É a verdade, as idiomas são similar.

Sou Carioca da Nova Orleans. ;)

y tú? ¿De dónde eres?

Mi mama es de Colombia. Mi papa era gringo. Me encantava Nuevo Orleans. Que lastima lo que paso con Katrina. Era muy triste. Te voy a mandar por PM una poema que yo escribir de esa gran cuidad despues de Katrina.

:hi:

Vamos hacer el Madi Gras el año próximo. ¡Espero que puedas venir y fiestar! :party:

Mi mama es de Colombia y mi papa era Americano. Y tu?

Austria.

Tengo tres hermanas en Espana. Una hermana vive en Ecija, una cerca de la ciudad de Barcelona y la otra en Valencia.

Ojala que te vaya bien.

Yo vive en Torremolinos en Malaga. Me encanto Espana.

:D

Yo viví al norte en La Seu de Urgell. Un día yo quisiera conocer la ciudad Sevilla, especialmente El Sacromente (yo toco un poco de flamenco-guitarra). También yo viví en Innsbruck, Österreich (un semestre para aprender aleman)... aber mein Deutch ist sehr schlect! :(

tief beeindruckt.

(I hope the people in Kansas don't try to have us thrown in the insane asylum for not speaking American)

I hope my Tyrolean and Iberian friends don't have me thrown in an asylum for destroying their beautiful idioms. :D Ao menos, o meu português ja está muito bem, mas é português Brasileiro. Obá! ;) :D

Tienes mucha suerte para vivir alli! Vivi alla para un ano y aun lo extrano un poco. Si ya no puedo hablar espanol aqui, quizas me muevo!

Madrid. ¡Qué vida tiene!

as usual. I'm almost more ashamed of being a Kansan than I am of *'s America.

Sick, stupid, and ignorant people here. And, yes, there's a difference between stupid and ignorant when you're talking about the people in Kansas.

reading about the professor being beat up and then apologizing for an email he sent. i didnt think the email was anything, let alone a beating. was reading that thread this morning

my niece went to school in kansas for a semester. her father travels. i drove up, (from panhandle of texas) and dealt with school a bit. really liked them. but man, what i read on kansas

fucked up state. There's no doubt about that. I love being in Manhattan, but if I can't live around here I'd rather leave the state altogether. Guess that'll be determined in the next year or so when my better half finishes school. However, we'll probably wind up back in Topeka if we inherit his grandpa's business. It makes me hesitate to bring a child into this world, but when we do, I'll be sure he/she knows there's better out there. It's just getting away from here that's the hard part!

enlightened boys. sittin in this extremism simply gives them the clearest example and visual if the issue. it allows them to have compassion and love for these people his fellowman. but understand how totally screwed up in their interpretation of christ and bible and religion.

dont be afraid. parents have massive, all consuming influence if they spend the time with kids. open, honest and respectful. that is what they learn

I vote for the one that's sinking so that its indigenous population is being evacuated. :evilgrin:

Was the conversation at a local talk show here in town. I did not hear what was said but I can only guess.

Watts needs a reprimand. Was the kid being disruptive, insulting in a language the teacher couldn't understand on purpose (poor sentence construction, I'll go stand in the corner for a minute).

I am back.

Sounds like possible disruption, possibly told to speak english to teacher, possibly was picked on by teacher, hard to tell. Interesting things going on there.

when i was a kid in tejas, the only spanish i knew was vulgar... we knew we could get away with it!

Kansas is really f'd up!

it'll have to reform before it could become a full member.

... we used to speak "ubby-dubby" at lunchtime (putting ub in every syllable of every word) ... and sometimes "ithiga" (putting that in every syllable) ... so it sounded like a foreign language. We did it A LOT! Under this school's rules, would we have been booted?


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ubby+dubby

Ubby Dubby:

A juvenile code language that changes each syllable into two syllables, thusly, change the initial vowel in each syllable to a short u sound, and start the second syllable with a "b" and the remainder of the original syllable. Ubby dubby was popularized on the PBS kids show "Zoom" in the 70's. "Chair" in ubby dubby is "chub-air."

"Zach was being disruptive"

Believe it or not, kids who are bilingual often say some pretty nasty things to teachers in a language other than English.

Another revealing item in the article is that this is an alternative school. And those schools are often where kids with some pretty severe discipline problems end up after they disrupt the traditional school. So somehow, I doubt this is a perfect little angel who has never been in trouble before.

I used to sub in this district. It has a great reputation. It sounds like the principal may have over disciplined the kid, but it is completely incorrect to say he was suspended for speaking Spanish. He was suspended for disrespecting authority.

I suggest you re-read the article slowly. It is very straight-forward. He was speaking Spanish to his friend, not cursing at a teacher. The principal decided she didn't like hearing kids speak Spanish in any circumstance, and would illegally enforce that rule. She thought she could abuse her power, but as Zach's father said, she picked on the wrong Spanish-speaking family. Fire the bigot now.

The principal may be guilty of overreacting, but I don't agree we can call her a racist.

There is zero evidence in the article that he disrupted anybody other than they didn't like hearing Spanish spoken. Remember this little gem 'We are not in Mexico, we are not in Germany.'" She has a record of harassing Spanish-speaking students, some of which don't speak English well and feel more comfortable in their native tongue. Spin it all you want, still racist.

disgruntled parent?

We don't know what the kid was saying at lunch. But he was being disruptive, asked to quit and he refused. Believe it or not, that is enough to be suspended in most schools in the USA.

I am not the one spinning this. I believe that would be the father :)

So how does that word apply to foul language? Was he "disrupting" their delicate ears with words they couldn't understand? You know what we call people who think people are talking badly about them in another language? Paranoid.

to say 'fuck you bitch'??

You see, foul language can be very disruptive.

There is no evidence that he was using foul language in the article. There is no mention of misbehavior except what Watts feels is misbehavior, i.e., speaking Spanish.

Of course we don't know every detail, but what is presented doesn't call for us to assume the student cursed anyone out.

The article presents a decidely one sided view of the incident.

It seems clear from Watts's own statements that she has a problem with the use of Spanish in the school, though there is not a school rule against it.

I do not think that all of "the facts" are presented in this article. It plays off the emotional reaction of readers to the plight of a minority student. It leaves one to wonder if, and how many times the student was warned in class, (something that is left out), if or how many times this student was sent to the principals office for the same or similar offenses in the past (again, something that was left out). Penthouse has a section in called "all the news that is print to fit", to me, this smacks just a little bit of that.
That being said, however, the principals lack of response does leave room for doubt. But, then again, maybe the district has a policy that PR problems be handled by the superintendent, and that he/she is withholding further comment until the incident is more thoroughly looked into?
There are lots of possibilities, so again, I think that the article presents a one sided, emotional view of the incident. But, I have been wrong before, and I am sure that I will be again.

You mention warnings and similar offenses as "something that was left out." Unless you're psychic, you don't know that there are such offenses to be left out, but you seem to assume that there are. In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, you are bending over backward to imagine possible justification for the punishment of the student, while "the facts" -- that is, the statements about what happened, including the superintendent's decisions, support another view. I don't think "there are lots of possibilities"; either Watts was unfair or she was justified. If she was unfair (and the reinstatement of the student suggests that she was), it is not surprising that the student and his father have "emotions" about it. I get mightily angry when someone I care about is treated unfairly.

It would surprise me if Watts was justified and yet the superintendent failed to back her up. I say this as the child of both a retired elementary school principal and a junior high school teacher. It's not common practice for schools to overrule teachers or administrators if they don't have to. But this student was reinstated, so I take that as a correction of Watts's mistake.

However, I don't think we're going to convince each other, so, since I've tried to state my view clearly, I'll agree to disagree now.

I merely mean the article did not state "this is the first time that Zach was sent to the office for the offense of talking in class" nor does it state that it was his 10th...
that is what I mean by information left out..
See what just tid bit of information could add to the story?

I said suspension was a bit harsh...but I'll reserve "its purely rascism" judgement until some more info comes out.
and thanks, have a good night.

...parent?"

Right, no parent has a right to be disgruntled about anything, and any time one of them is, it is proof that they are wrong.

Got to love your sense of justice
:eyes:

can tell horror stories about disgruntled parents who either don't know the whole story or twist the facts. You also need to remember that kids in trouble rarely disclose the whole story to their parent.

We had a kid just today who was using a sharpie marker to draw gang graffiti on his belt (which he had taken off so he could draw on it). Teacher took the belt away and left a message for the parent to come to the office and pick it up. Parent came in angry because the kid had told him his teacher had made him take off his belt and refused to give it back to him. He hadn't been home yet to listen to the message the teacher had left for him. The headline for that story could have read "Teacher undressing student".

Another time, I had a kid who made a paper airplane in class and threw it across the room, hitting another kid in the eye with it. The kid with the sore eye went to the nurse and the paper airplane went in the trash. Mom came in after school furious that I had thrown away her kid's toy. Kid had gone home and told Mom I threw his toy away but he hadn't bothered to tell her it was a paper airplane or that he had injured a classmate with it. That headline could have read "Teacher stealing toys from child".

...have vested interests in a monopoly that guarantees your jobs.

A perfectly 'objective' position from which to ignore the stats on failed students.

I can read. The article said even the school superintendent thought the principal was in the wrong. The only disruption mentioned in the article was his refusal to speak in the designated tongue.

If authority wants to be respected, it needs to be reasonable. Telling a kid not to speak a language during lunch hour hardly fits that description, no matter how many hypothetical excuses you want to make up.

Like I said, bilingual kids will curse and call teachers names in other languages. It happens. He was a student at an alternative school. Do you understand what that is?

We had a kid in my school last year who was sexually harrassing girls in Spanish. He was suspended. But not for speaking Spanish.

The supt obviously reinstated the kid after the father complained and contacted the media. That happens too.

Hide the white girls. :sarcasm:

Did you notice how I mirrored your insinutation that spanish speaking students in alternative schools are nothing but trouble makers who use their language to sexually harrass girls? Maybe he wouldn't have gotten away with it for so long if the teachers had educated themselves, hmmmm?

YOU were the one who threw the racist label out AND made the racist comment. Oh but you were being sarcastic - riiiight.

..."Believe it or not, kids who are bilingual often say some pretty nasty things to teachers in a language other than English. "

Got any evidence for that racial stereotype? Or shall we call it "racist" amd "paranoid" and just move on?

Speaking in your native language during lunch is classified as "defying authority", is it?
:eyes:

But then how would you know if you reject public schools? So I guess you will just have to take my word for it.

As far as this story goes, it is a great big NEI - Not Enough Information.

I do have a friend who teaches in that district and I am sure she will be glad to give me the inside story - you know, the part the press leaves out when they tell these stories.

It is interesting to note that this story only appears in a small local newspaper. It has not been in the major dailys here or on any of the TV stations. Sure seems like the media would have picked it up by now. We have one TV station that loves to trash the local public schools. But they haven't touched this story. Now that makes me go hmmm but if you want to jump on the bandwagon and run with it, be my guest.

It doesn't ring right, to me. I've had kids say stuff to me or around me, not knowing that I know Spanish, and while I never took it up with the front office, I know it happened. Kids are masters of saying things so that only those close by can hear or in code or in ways they think the adults around them can't understand.

On the other hand, I know that sometimes kids are cracked down on pretty hard at lunch these days. I wonder if it was something like that.

You're right--not enough info.

I called my friend who works there and left her a message. I will post anything revealing she tells me.

I ain't yer "sweetheart".

"you will just have to take my word for it" - did hell freeze over?

"Not Enough Information" - that would be "not enough information" to support your claims. Why am I not surprised?

babble, babble - uh huh...I'm sure you'll let us know.
:eyes:

Cave's getting cold.

...I just got finished telling a friend that was what I planned on doing: cuddling my wife, watching our fire, and accepting that I can't stop all the control-freaks single-handed.

The latter has never been easy, but I learned long ago that I can't save everyone from the damage control-freaks inflict. It's enough to protect my family from them, and I do that quite well.

Have your fun. Chickens come home to roost, I've certainly seen that happen to others often enough. In the long run, things have a way of working out.

Cya.

This isn't the first time you've picked on her, and this isn't the first time you've resorted to name-calling when you disagree. Yes, it's time to chill.

...so nice to get remote psycho-analysis without all the bother of professional standards.
:eyes:

You just proved my point rather nicely.

Bienvenido. :)

"I won't hear it in my school" is information enough.

About 45 minutes later, he was sent back to the office by his teacher for speaking Spanish to a classmate in a classroom

I fail to see why that is wrong.

The article specifically says that it was for speaking Spanish to a classmate, not for talking out of turn in any language.

let alone, in another language while the teacher is teaching?
I'm sorry, I was sent to the principals office for talking in class. Suspension may be a bit harsh, but I was suspended as well when a 2nd incident occurred, because it disrupted class. What the article doesn't state is the number of times that the student had been sent to the office before... It doesn't say how many times the teacher asked the student to stop talking, in english or spanish, nor does it state what the student actually was saying in spanish when he was sent to the office.

But the article says the student was sent to the office for speaking Spanish, not for being rude. There is no indication that the student was talking out of turn, and there is conversation between students in classes. So why assume? You suggest that the teacher asked the student to stop talking, perhaps several times, but you don't know that, nor do you know that the teacher didn't care what language was spoken. In fact, the article suggests that the language spoken was the reason for being sent to the office.

There may be more to the story, but what you suggest is not in evidence so far.

and the student was speaking to another student in Spanish, that doesn't raise a red flag in your eyes that he may not have been participating in class, and in fact distracting others around him?

You don't know that he was "distracting," and that is my whole point.

I assume that all but foreign language classes are in English, but that has nothing to do with how students communicate with each other.

I don't have a problem with the student's use of Spanish AS PRESENTED in the article. If there are other factors, we haven't heard about them, so I can't judge them. If you want to assume that the student was doing something wrong that wasn't mentioned in the article, go ahead.

If the teacher is up there teaching chemistry, algebra, or english in english, and there are other kids sitting near me speaking to each other in english, let alone another language, it is going to be a distraction. It takes no great leap of imagination or conjecture to see this, unless, of course those views simply do not fit your agenda.

You state that all classes are in english, but that has notthing to do with how students communicate to each other. How many times were you called out for speaking to another student, period, when it was ok to talk to one another. I think the offense was that he was talking, period, and it just so happened that he was speaking spanish at the time.

Superintendent said the teacher was wrong. And, the "disgruntled parent" works for the school district.

This racist teacher specified that she would not allow Spanish "in her building", which is illegal. This isn't Nazi Germany. Yet.

/typin'

Glad you cleared it up...it is not only a rascist principal, but a racist teacher! Must be a major conspiracy. Do we know the ethnicity of the teacher and principal involved? What if they are also hispanic?
Does that make it rascism still?
(BTW, I looked on the TSD website, no pictures of the Endeavor Alternative School Faculty)

Do you think for a moment if that kid were a problem we wouldn't know about it?

My father lives just outside of Kansas City. Once on a visit, we went to buy some barbeque. He wouldn't let me get out of the car and go into the barbeque place with him. Guess why, KC.

The ethnicity of the educators is of no consequence. They are the custodians of that student's acedemic freedom. And they blew it, badly.

I am stating that this is lopsided article.
I think that if the kid was speaking in class, regardless of the language, and was disrupting the class, and had been warned before, then there is more to this case, then just calling it rascism.
You are right, the educators are the custodians of these students, and a whole slew of others.
Like I said, previously, I was suspended for talking and disrupting class... and I was speaking in English.

But that is precisely the issue. This racist doesn't want Spanish "in her building."

That you were suspended is also of no consequence. Two wrongs.

I learned how to speak English from the television and by practicing with kids in kindergarten. Am intimitely aware of exactly how racist this culture is.

My favorite teacher wanted me to be Italian, for pete's sake, anything just not Hispanic. "Are you SURE you're not Italian?"

lol

and on that note I will digress.

Fyi.

And, you've no need to apologize to me. Living well is the best revenge. I get paid good money to translate in every court in the county.

Digress-To turn away from a prescribed course of action or conduct: depart, deviate, diverge, stray, swerve, veer. Archaic err. See approach/retreat, correct/incorrect.

"digress" is not used as "depart'. Unless you "depart" from one path to take a tangential one, in which case it can be called a digression.

De nada.

... "egress" (exit) or "desist" (stop) would have been better fits.

To "digress" is to drift off-topic in a discussion. To announce one is about to "digress" in a discussion is to signal intent to drift off-topic.

her class in English.

Sounds to me like Spanish is the particular problem here.

See, the way it works is like this - the school district cannot say one word about this kid without permission from the parent. That is why these stories almost always mention (as this one did) that the teacher or principal 'has no comment' or (my personal favorite) 'refused to comment'. OF COURSE THEY REFUSED TO COMMENT - THE PARENT HAS NOT CONSENTED!! And why would the parent give permission when the story the school tells is likely to be just a tad different from the story the kid brought home to that angry parent.

So no, we have no way of knowing if this kid is actually a problem.

Nice dig on KC. I take it there is NO crime in SF. Must be nice.

The educators at this site should be in good enough control of their mouths to deal with him

Or, they should go into another line of work.

We've bumped heads on this issue before. And I don't minimize in any way how hard that job is. My family is full of teachers, mostly PS teachers.

is totally the word of the parent? The parent claimed the principal said she didn't want his kid to speak Spanish. The parent claimed the principal made that horrid comment about her school not being Germany.

We have never heard from the media what actually happened. The kid went home and told his dad what he wanted to hear. And Dad ran with it.

Ask all your relatives how often this happens.

One reason I am being so stubborn about this is that I have a friend who teaches in that district. I talked to her and her version of what happened is completely different from what Dad told the media. I thought about starting a thread telling the whole story but I have no links and I honestly believe some people here just want to believe what they choose to believe. It would make no difference to tell them the kid cursed at the principal in Spanish and at a teacher in a class later that day. So he got suspended and went home and told his dad he was in trouble for speaking Spanish - which was only part of the truth. Dad got mad and claimed his son couldn't have cursed in Spanish because they don't use curse words at home. Yep, that's what Dad told the supt. Then Dad pulled the race card. The supt did the only thing he could and let the kid back in school and asked for an apology because he wants the whole story to go away.

So a principal gets cussed at and ends up having to apologize. But why would these pesky little details make any difference? We have used this thread to trash teachers and the state of Kansas. And it all started with a bullshit story that some of us saw through from the very beginning. But hey, why listen to us? We are just yokels from Kansas where we have to teach creationism and our kids get in trouble for speaking Spanish. And that is a lot more interesting story than the truth apparently.

she needs to correct the record. As they stand, they are inappropriate. It makes sense to me that the Supe would just want the whole thing to go away, no matter what. (Having administrators who don't support their faculty is unsurprising, isn't it?)

I've never lived in Kansas. The racism I've had to deal with has all been right here in the Paris of the Pacific. Like that silly teacher who wanted me to be Eye-talian instead of Hispanic. That silly favorite teacher, to be complete.

My concern isn't with Kansas but with what looks to be a new wave of xenophobia sweeping across the county. It's a troubling time in this country and nationalism, religious fanaticism and racism all seem to be the byproducts of this time in our culture. We've to mind that. Words matter. When we start acting as if they don't, we're in trouble.

over the one bad teacher or one bad experience they had in school as kids. Or maybe a few baddies - point is we don't remember the good years and great teachers as well as the bad. For me it was my 4th grade teacher who was to this day the cruelest person I have ever known. She made life a living hell for me and I was only 9 years old.

As for this story, a week from now it will be just a memory and a professional's reputation will be tarnished. I doubt the parent will come forward and admit what actually happened - that never happens.

My friend did say that all this attention has caused the district to investigate this kid's residency. Rumor has it he lives in MO. Many families do that here - lie about where they live to get into a better school district. Believe it or not, in the KC area, the school districts in Kansas have a better reputation than those in Missouri and parents use relatives or friends or employment addresses. Taxes, etc are generally lower and it can be cheaper to live in MO. The district where I live even employs an investigator whose job is checking residency. So if this kid is indeed a MO resident, he will be booted out of the district. Anyway, when they have high profile problems like this, districts usually check residency right away.

Yep, I notice that xenophobia too. MuseRider is helping to start up an equity coalition in Kansas. I have many friends noticing the problem of low tolerance in our culture and wanting to get involved to fight it. That is a hopeful sign.

where this happened. I know you all think this is just a podunk little area, but believe it or not, we have many many school districts in two different states here. And a million and a half residents.

The kid goes to school in the Turner School District. It is in Kansas City, KANSAS. The father works for the North Kansas City School District. It is in MISSOURI.

a perfect son, ideal student who gets in trouble year after year after year...... for talking in class. straight a's. kind. model student. but talks in class

he has NEVER been suspended for talking in class. he has gotten in trouble many times. lots of times. but never suspended. if the issue is talking in class, then it should be dealt with the same as any english speaking kid tlaking in class. it was not dealt with like that. it was dealt with in a harsh punishment becuase the child had the audacity to use spanish. which happens to be on the top right wing political agenda along with earth being 6009 years old and merry christmas not happy holidays, speak english when in this country

In many schools it is the number of the offense, not the severity which determines punishment. Thus talking in class for say the 10th time will get a student suspended while cursing a student once might get a detention. Given that the school involved is an alternative school it is very likely that it is run that way.

also much of edmunds talking is academic. he loves knowledge and information. they also look at intent and what is up with kid. i have worked so well with teachers and principles (nieces and nephews, i have adopted role for missing parents.) we personally have been in three schools. two public, one private. i am all for hearing whole story. i never take my kids at their word, and these are good, trustworthy, pretty honest kids. did i say kids. lol loll lol. i remember the stories i told to stay out of trouble. i could talk hard and fast enough, i ALWAYS got out of trouble.

it isn't unreasonable to treat people who do their main jobs well differently than those who don't. Even here with our by the numbers system people like him get one thing while those who get f's in their classes get another.

:popcorn:

I have decided most deserve a new mnemonic - N E I:
Not
Enough
Information

I should probably just stamp em and move on, eh?

...and we just can't get too much of that when it comes to being permitted to speak in our native tongue.

Somehow I find all of that stereotypical crap about bilinguals a bit hard to swallow. I live in a country that -is- bilingual and that kind of tripe would -never- fly here.

"He was suspended for disrespecting authority" good for him. Perhaps his parents will home school him so that he's treated with human dignity and respect.

Kicking someone out for two days because they speak their native tongue during lunch is justified as "disrespecting authority".
:eyes:

respect! Yes siree.

Neil and Christy Edgar will be sentenced next month in Kansas for abusing and murdering their 9-year-old son. He suffocated after his head was wrapped in duct tape as a punishment for taking food without permission.

Andrea Yates gained national attention when she drowned her five children in a bathtub. Deanna Laney, told investigators she beat her three sons with rocks, killing two of them. Both mothers taught their children at home.

In Iowa, a father is serving life, and a mother goes on trial later this month, for killing their 10-year-old adopted son and burying him at their house. Because they were home schooling, no one noticed he was missing for more than a year.

Marjorie Lavery says her father beat her before the National Spelling Bee then threatened to kill her after she came in second. He pleaded guilty to child endangerment after she testified about years of cruelty.

The school bus never stopped at the secluded trailer on Hickory Crossroads in rural North Carolina because for five years Nissa and Kent Warren home schooled their children.

Then, as CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales reports, county workers got an anonymous tip: better check on those kids.

In the bedroom, 14-year-old Brandon had committed suicide with a rifle after killing his brother Kyle and sister Marnie. Their mother discovered the bodies.

"She stopped me in the road (and) said my children are dead," says a neighbor.

Nissa Warren told a detective she'd "rather God had them than Child Protective Services."

It turned out the Warrens had home schooled before, in Arizona, where they were convicted of child abuse. An investigator there wrote: "The children are tortured physically and emotionally." That's information North Carolina school officials are not required to collect.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/13/eveningnews/main577817.shtml

...end parenting and institute the Nanny State: all hail the control-freak's paradise.

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FYI

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And those schools are often where kids with some pretty severe discipline problems end up after they disrupt the traditional school."

WTF?

It took a lot of hard work to get my daughter into an alternative school, but it was worth every second. It, and many other alternative schools work heavily w/parents and care more and do more for their students than most "traditional" schools.

WTF do you get your information?

Ah, don't tell me. It was from a republican lover, right?

Did I say ALL kids at alternative schools were problem kids? NO

Did I say there was anything WRONG with alternative schools? NO

My own son went to an alternative school.

They are often a much better fit for kids who have problems in traditional schools. Alternative schools are usually smaller and more nurturing than large public high schools. They also (at least in my district) have teachers who specialize in working with 'at risk' kids.

In my state, alternative schools are mandated by state law that was enacted to address school violence in the late 1990s. They must be available in every district in the state. I served on the state task force that was formed to write guidelines and curriculum for alternative schools. So yes, I do know just a bit about alternative education and what kinds of students these schools serve.

I should have looked at your profile. Now I understand.

Thank gawd my daughter went to a great alternative school in California.

Too bad Kansas has such educational problems.

Are ALL people in California determined to jump into this thread and tell Kansas how stupid we are? Must be nice to live in perfectland. How's that governor working for ya?

At least ours is a Democrat.

I was going to post some links about alternative education, but I can tell that would be a total waste of my time. I think I will go searching instead for articles about the crisis in California schools. Surely there are more than a few bad teacher/failing schools stories I can find about YOUR state.

:hi:

to see where I live now. Instead you ASSumed I still lived in California.

Way dumb on your part.

My governor is working out just fine. His name is Ted Kulongoski and he is a Democrat.

I know enough by reading your posts.

since you thought arnold was my governor.

Duh.

Gee how mature.

Just stating facts.

...welcome to the club, Pastiche. We're thinking of getting jackets made ;-)

ANd a teacher may think someone speaking a language they don't understand is disruptive... making that teacher an ass.
ANd the teacehr should just accept things are being said in other languages, which because the teacher was too lazy to ever learn another language, makes the teacher an ass times 2. Plus, if you can't understand them saynig it, is it much different from them thinking it?

Thirdly this teacher sounds paranoid, and needs help.

EDIT: Whatever the kid DID say, the teacher probably deserved it.

Kansas bashing. It's a new thing around here.

Did you see the thread where someone thought the KU professor who got beat up was a creationist? And he had been beaten up by some thugs from the pro-evolution crowd?

That person was nice enough to change his OP when we pointed out his mistake but not before a bunch of other folks had piped in with more Kansas bashing comments.

And this one is especially infuriating. Seems like DUers should know that newspapers don't always tell the whole story.

get people to move there. :crazy:

These kids were on lunch break for pity sake! I hope the parents fight this.

Kansas City, KS is pretty blue - they keep electing Dennis Moore (D-KS), a Democrat. Besides that, KCK probably has one of the largest Hispanic populations in the entire KCMO metro area. In light of the latter, I wonder why Zach thinks he was "singled out as 'different'"?

People that live in blue states deal with their insecurities by making fun of Kansas. Let them have their pathetic little fun.

earth is more than 6009 years old, in the same state?

wtf is going on in kansas

nows the time to bring out the i told you so's to all the repug friends that i told fundies and this attitude was going to cause real problems.

almost everytime it is lacking in information and by the time we get more, and see, it was not how it was initially presented, we all get caught up in a lot of drama.

We didn't know --------- what?

lol

day at school.

r the high school girl suspended for not saying a prayer prior to a football game, suspended 5 days to find out father kicked shit out of principle. i am still waiting for all of that story

ya, like that

Don't most high schools teach spanish? Aren't the kids encouraged to learn to speak it? What better way to practice it then speaking to your friends in spanish at lunch time? Unless the kid was swearing at her in spanish, then itwould be a different issue.

This guy won the lottery.
He can retire early with the money he will win from the lawsuit.

Lucky bastard.

Why can't teachers be that dumb here in CT? I could use a new house. And a boat. And a limo with a driver.
:D

I can see how speaking to another person in your own language (not English) makes it easy to disparage a teacher (FSM knows I did plenty of that!).

When I lived in NC my family and I would make all these nasty comments about Wal-Mart customers in Italian because no one would understand us. It was fun.

Now, in that particular school for problem students, I can see how a teacher may have thought (with or without cause) that the students were disparaging her/him in Spanish.

Of course, I don't know all the facts in the story and there may as well be some racism there. I just don't know.

I do know, however, that sometimes I have been in stores or restaurants and the employees were speaking Spanish and talking or gossiping about the customers, sometimes being downright rude. I am glad I know enough Spanish to know the slang and cuss words to understand what they were saying. So that kind of annoys me, regardless of the language used.

sheiiiiit. the crap they said about me. to my face, lol lol where i couldnt understand. the crudest. their ass would be fired if it was a male saying that to me in a work place. and...... we were friends. we hung out. i certainly know what they were saying about allllll the others, bosses, customers, employees.

but.... i do like your post. so rational, reasoned, reasonable.

find out the story. punish accordingly. we dont know the story

if it is for speaking spanish with nothing underlining,......hey, i can believe it would happen. that is the sad part. but so often with these school stories i see there is more to stories. we easily rip schools. i have kids in public now, and wow...... i am pretty impressed. i am in red area, we have had political conflict, yet......even being one that is not part of the whole, they are still behaving well and professional. teachers, principles.

How do you know the teacher was disparaged?!

Some of these posts are so clearly projective, clearly and unself-consciously so. Hello! It's passe to project your fears all over the Other.

This is naked racism perpetrated on a minor.

The perpetrator should be immediately terminated.

why would you accuse him/her of something he/she didnt say??????

do you know what happened? that there are no other parts of this story that we are not hearing? you assure me, this is it. i am on boat with you.

this poster, though, talked about her own personal experience. so i dont need to challenge his/her truth

You tell me in what context not wanting "Spanish in my building" isn't racist.

Building a fictional character and history and narrative for this incident may be amusing. But it doesn't change the fact that an educator told a student he was suspended for speaking Spanish.

If he was a behavioral problem, his suspension should have been stated in appropriate terms. Educators, of all people, should be able to communite a clear message.

As stated, the suspension has a racist base. And I sit here and read numerous posters trying to get around that. Incredible.

yesterday limiting what kerry said to such an extent there is not a way to defend what kerry said. not a truth, not a reality, wasnt what kerry said. but limiting it to just a few words, one cant argue kerry bad.

i am willing to say, there was more in the conversation. before i judge, i want the whole story.

can i have at least a day or two, to see if maybe more information comes out on this. like the 5 year old underwear kindergartener.

a couple days, before i fry these adults.

i dont think that is asking too much, to address big issues we have going in htis country. if you want to attack now. go for it. i chose to listen

:rofl:

That is why 9/11 happened.

a person doesn't say exactly the words the recipient wants to hear

this is the second time in just hours. or are you the same person.????

do we have a new talking point adopted from right wing, that i didn't hear about?

but I'm spouting right wing talking points.

LOL!

Background: My 80 year old mother has a theory about why 9/11 happened.

It happened because people have bought into the Faux News model. Is someone obviously racist? Just wait until you get ALL THE facts, until you sleep and dream.

Meanwhile, there is a Hispanic family dealing with racism.

Again, on what planet can you say, I will not tolerate Spanish in my building -- and excuse that statement from active racism?

I'm waiting for your answer.

I support making English as the country's official language as a matter of practicallity and to make the country cohesive (not in a racist way, but I just don't want us to develop a Quebec problem where the country becomes too balkanized. For the record, English as the official language won't mean people can't speak in their mother tounges.) HOWEVER, suspending him from speaking his mother tounge smacks of fascism and violates the 1st Amendment.

with English in the terratories involved in the treaty.

But even aside from that, why is America -- land of immigrants -- so hot and bothered by other languages?! It's just weird.

unaware of how the US went back on its word and basically stole the land that Mexicans turned Americans had after the Mexican-American War. We're so bassackwards when it comes to languages.

goodbye in Russian and that qualifies her as an expert in that language and Bush barely speaks something that faintly resembles English.

Americans come to Europe and demand service in English. (Although Swamp Rat is certainly not among those)

Another demonstration of ethnic egocentricity.

However, it was from parents, not school administrators. In my school we encourage the children to practice what we teach them; and it sounds as if this young lad was doing just that. Now, if he were saying something profane or insulting to someone and the teacher or administrator who overheard him understood what was being said, then we have another matter altogether.

But, if the primary reason given was "We are not in Mexico..." Call the school board and an attorney.

who seems to think they speak Spanish in Germany.

"My son called me on Monday and said he had been suspended for speaking Spanish," Rubio said. "I could not believe it. I went to the school and spoke to Mrs. (Jennifer) Watts and asked her if this was school policy. She told me, 'no,' but said 'We are not in Mexico, we are not in Germany.'" :rofl:

"She told me, 'no,' but said 'We are not in Mexico, we are not in Germany."

"We are not in Germany"..part? As in :wtf: does that have to do with the little boy speaking Espanol at lunch time to his amigo?

At first thought it sounded even more racist than say just "We are not in Mexico".

Does that mean ..no German spoken here, either..like don't even think about it?

This is like NAZI GERMANY.

Now, why are more and more parents homeschooling their kids? Gee, I really wonder.... :shrug:

Help me understand that.

Would these same posters defend the "emigration" of the Warsaw ghetto?

We are in real danger of being overwhelmed by nationalism if this is happening on DU.

What am I missing?

:wtf:

but that's just a guess.

Personally, I am not distracted when foreign languages are spoken around me. I'm educated.

What happened to this educator?

And my family is full of teachers the way others are full of cops or firemen.

...real teachers don't need to hallucinate to defend their talking points, don't treat all kids as if they're terrorists, don't treat all parents like they're child abusers. Don't treat themselves as if they're God's gift to humanity.

That's what "teachers" do.

"Teachers" earn the reputation, real Teachers suffer for it. It isn't fair, but until school boards do a better job of weeding out the "teachers" it's not going to go away.

...tho' certainly I think they'd be far more at home on the right in freeperville than here.

Have you looked at the number of people who understand the issues and have offered no support to the CFs? They are by far the majority here. Take comfort from that.

Most of us recall the control freaks amongst our educators from our school days. The ones whose grip on self-confidence was so slim they -had- to act like little tin-plated gestapo to feel they were in control over everything?

They still exist, demonstrating that PS institutions do very little screening for maturity and psychological stability when they hire staff.

It's rather obvious a CF was responsible for the incident in the OP. As one might expect, CFs defend authority and control through a variety of racist stereotypes and pure invention, asserting 'facts' they cannot support from any source but their own fevered mind.

And when they are forced to defend their assertions, they fall back on "not enough information" rather than acknowledge they invented their 'facts' out of thin air.

Denial, hallucination, paranoia and a freakish need to control -everyone- fits the general pattern for control freaks. I've been studying the phenomena for 30 years. It used to be they were more rare, or at least more cagey about letting others know. But in the last 12 years or so, the RW have made it 'fashionable' for control freaks to be out (think Karl Rove and Ann Coulter).

I'm as susprised as you to find them in DU. But they're nowhere near as popular or numerous as you'll find in the RW. Let's hope it stays that way.

One thing is for sure, they will not be contributing to any solutions. It's up to those of us who do not feel the need to force people to stroke our egos to solve the problems control freaks cause.

The first thing colonizers do is destroy their victims' language because then the culture dies.

...colonizers have many strategies.

Control freaks don't like -any- communication they cannot readily over-hear and understand. Their paranoia convinces them -any- secret discussion is a plot against them.

Control freaks don't believe in private free speech amongst others. Why are school staff eavesdropping in on the private conversations of students, if not driven to it by paranoia? Why worry about a group speaking in spanish if not driven to it by paranoia?

Colonizers are acutely aware of their vulnerability due to the size of their population compared to those they presume to rule. If they survive at all, it is due to their paranoia driving them to institute control mechanisms that keep the population in control and preferably suspicious of one another (recruiting snitches from the population).

Because the hispanic culture is by in large, gentle, generous and accepting.

I've grown up with one foot in that culture and one foot in the mainstream.

It is impolite in Hispanic culture to say "NO" in any form.

This may lead to you asking multiple people in Guadalajara where you can purchase an opal ring. Now, if the people you ask don't know the answer, they will make up directions -- turn right, two blocks, turn left. Because it would be incredibly rude to say, "I don't know."

Those terrible al Qaida nannies and gardeners.

Esta persona está muy muy loca para suspender a un estudiante que hable español.

Suspiro - solamente en Kansas.

Mein Gott! Er wirklich ist zu diesem gekommen. Amerika Über Alles!

Seems more like Stupid Design to me.

Every day I get more and more embarrassed about the stories coming out of my state. What are they trying to do, turn our schools into a three ring circus?

This disgusts me. The most telling and cogent paragraph is this one.



It's obvious the principal has a problem with other languages and people who are different. "It just ain't right." I can hear her saying this. I was a bilingual teacher for 10 years and Spanish teacher before that for three years. I can remember running into this type of person many times when I would speak Spanish to my kids. It's ridiculous, xenophobic, racist and down-right ignorant.

If the problem were really that of disruption, then mark it as such in the referral or reason for suspension, which also is a dumb reason to suspend a kid. Keep them in school in an in-school suspension set-up. Anyhow, I digress. The problem, if it really were disruption of class, was excessive talking, but the idiot principal did not even try to hide her xenophobic ways. She put that Spanish is not to be spoken. Hey Watts, you can't legislate language! Zach states very well why he was speaking Spanish to his friend. If they were being "disruptive" in class by talking redirect the behavior. Why even mention the language? Oh wait, because that is the real issue; not that Zach was disruptive! If I were the super in that district I would write a permanent reprimand on the record of that principal for intolerance and not creating an environment that is nurturing and welcoming to all.

This is about a terrorist threat caused by the Spanish language. :sarcasm:

No wonder I lost two teachers and five others had to start off the school year as volunteers not being able to receive remuneration because the government had to protect us from Mexican and South American terrorists; not to mention that they had already paid thousands of dollars to lawyers only to have the government seemingly arbitrarily announce that the quota of H-1 visas had been reached. It's for the good of Merikkka! :sarcasm:

and all the fear they can sembrar.

Lastima.

I guess I better get my Adelita stuff together. I haven't been very patient on this thread.

Sorry you lost those teachers and the other helpers, Maestro.

runs out Dec 31st. I need a new bilingual teacher to start January 3rd. This is going to be next to impossible.

Somehow, we will get through this new wave of racism and fear. There is another side of this whole conflict. We will find it even though the Cabal is using it to bolster their failing polls.

We are a strong people and the Earth is our witness.

Our very best to you and yours, Maestro. This is the right fight. Thank you for fighting it.

:)

This issue is NOT about disruption, NOT about "gangs making plans" in Spanish, or any other of the lame excuses for bigotry that others have offered on this thread.

I've run into the insecure language bigots myself. They know no language other than English, so they both overestimate the difficulty of learning (I can't tell you how many times monolingual Americans have responded to the news that I'm a Japanese-English translator by saying "I can't even speak English") and underestimate the difficulty ("Those people should speak English--even to one another--now that they're here in America.")

I've come to believe that language bigots are a subset of the people who hate and fear anything they can't understand.

He cussed out the principal. I have a friend who works there. This newspaper only tells us the kid's twisted version of events.

Dad threatened a lawsuit. So the district caved and made the principal apologize.

How did the Spanish thing come up then? Was it just the parent bringing it up or did the principal bring it up?

and he got suspended. The story has now evolved into 'he got suspended for speaking Spanish' which is only half true. The superintendent wants it all to just go away so he reinstated the kid and asked the principal to apologize.

You know how these stories go. The parent gets angry and goes to the media. And the parent's version is the only side of the story the media tells us since school personnel can't comment without violating privacy regs.

I don't know about where you are, but we have a couple stories like this every year.

My favorite one last year: Kid got suspended for finding a toy gun and turning it in to the principal. Community was outraged. What the media didn't tell us is that the kid was pointing it at other kids on the bus AND he said he didn't know it was a toy. So instead of being outraged that a kid was pointing a gun he thought might be real at other kids, we got the 'good kid trying to do the right thing and got suspended' story. :eyes:

but, and not to be incredulous here, but who verified he was cussing at the principal if she doesn't speak Spanish?

who is bilingual. And you know, I don't speak Spanish but I do know some of the curse words.;)

Reminds me of the time one of my kids was in trouble for fighting. His opponent was a new kid who didn't speak English. My kid claimed the other kid had been cursing at him. I said "but I thought he didn't speak English". The kid said "Oh, Mrs. P, the first words they learn are the cuss words. Didn't you know that?"

but I would love to see what the principal actually wrote down as the reason for suspension.

IF she really said what the kid claimed she said, she is an idiot. And if she put it in writing, she is an even bigger idiot.

little does that idiot know..it's okay to be bi-lingual. In fact it broadens one's horizons.

Poor little thing..how traumatic for him.

I wrote a whole article on the subject once.

Lets see we now have in Kansas 1) Fred Phelps, who BTW is a Democrat; 2) an embarrassing approval of intelligent design and a change in the definition of science by the Kansas School Board; 3) an idiot professor at KU who shoots himself in the foot with an embarrassing e-mail (and now gets beat up for it under some strange circumstances); and now 4)Spanish banned from school. And this used to be a progressive state with the first all female city government and a newspaper advocating free love. Alas, that was the 19th century. At least we have an effective Democratic governor in Topeka who is peddling as fast as she can. These incidents are minority opinions shouting louder than they should. Still, I am embarrassed to be a Kansan tonight.

I'm sure Kansas has no monopoly on idiots.

When I visited there, everyone was welcoming and KC was beautiful -- reminded me so much of San Francisco. lol

This whole country is awash in blatant racism. It's not KC's exclusive by any means.

We'll get through it.

:hi:

/grammar

And try being from Texas! :)

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

:)

kick for the First Amendment. :kick:

until the beginning of WWI. My branch was already out here in CA and also spoke German at home until then. What a bunch of ignorant yoyos. Scheisskoepfe.

it looks like.

And I bet this dad wishes he wasn't in Kansas anymore.

Whatever the Phelps family is infected with is spreading.

Security. My wife teaches high school and about half of the students speak some spanish. They are not allowed to speak it anymore after last year. A gang was planning violence, discussing it in spanish figuring that the substitute in the class did ont know any. She did, reported them and weapons were confiscated. They planned to shoot another student after school.

It is constitutional to require them to speak English the school boards lawyer checked. And as far as racist that is not the reasont they did it.

ultimately don't matter. It is a racist act.

Columbine.

Which school district? Which school?

I live in Houston & don't recall the case you mention.

See, kids are masters at code and trying to hide things from adults. If it weren't Spanish, it would be something else.

Instead of having that policy, it would be better to have more bi-lingual teachers and staff around when students are in larger groups (large classes, library, cafeteria, that sort of thing) and more staff in general to catch notes, too many kids on-line, phones and PDAs, and whatever else the kids come up with.

It's a constant battle, as I'm sure your wife well knows. I taught high school English in Catholic schools, and it was a constant battle there, too. My students had figured out how to use their graphing calculators to cheat and send notes, and I caught it, thereby preventing one more way to cheat on my tests and quizzes. They also use code and slang for the same reason.

Look at all the anti-gay measures in so many states.

Look at Louisiana and Mississippi.

We are AWASH in bigotry at the moment. And we have to stay steady and challenge it at every turn.

Spanish--many kids these days can barely speak english.

Some of my hispanic co-workers and I were threatened with dismissal because we often spoke Spanish among ourselves during breaks. This was back in the sixties. We always made a point of speaking English if there was a non-Spanish speaking person among us, but it wasn't enough for the bigots.

We also had German immigrants working as secretaries in this office too, who spoke German among themselves as well and no one objected. The racism couldn't be denied. Fortunately our General Manager was a liberal who said what language people spoke on their breaks was no one's business. If they didn't like it, they should take a break at their desks.

This is a terraist Spanish threat. :sarcasm:

Do they hate EVERYTHING that's not in the Bible in Kansas?

SIDENOTE: Kansas DUers, this is not a slight against you. It's your state that is retarded, not you.

in St. Joseph, MO.

The whole area is LOADED with ignorant, bigoted, self-righteous
a$$holes. Not to say that there aren't a few nice people.

I had a run-in with the Superintendent of Schools in St. Joe when I wanted to enroll my 5 year old son in kindergarten--but his birthday was 5 days
after the cut-off date. I joked that if I'd known we would be moving to Missouri (from California) when it was time for him to start school, that I would have induced labor 6 days early so his birthday would make the cut-off. The Supt. didn't think that was funny. Ended up sending him to the local parochial school because the psychologist who tested him said he was definitely ready.

Rigid, uncompromising, authoritarian bureaucracy is typical of the area.

I am from KC obviously...I wouldn't classify St. Joe as being THAT near to KCK.