Crackdown on Panhandling: Council Backs Restrictions

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3282292

So who's right? Business people who point out that panhandlers chase away their customers, are aggressive, sometimes violent; or the homeless, who ask why it's illegal to say, "Brother can you spare a dime?"

but thank god the council is making the homeless less visible and more criminal...i don't want to look at a homeless person when i'm out buying expensive things! :sarcasm:

Look how it ended up...

Thus creating the first truly "public" gathering places for everyone, regardless of class.

who ask why it's illegal to say, "Brother can you spare a dime?"

But I think it's the 'aggressive' and the 'violent' parts that gripe the businessmen, not to say the chasing away of customers.

I don't know what the answer is. But people not only have a right to free speech, but also a right not to be harassed. What to do when two rights collide? It will always turn out that one of them is less of a right than the other.

Violent panhandling = assault and battery.
They just don't want people to have to see the consequences of their greed and lack of compassion.

the street more often. Most panhandlers are non-violent people who ask, and, if something is given say "thank you", and if nothing is given, either leave or say something like "God Bless".

Then there are the other kind. They threaten, they grab or touch. They usually smell of liquor, so you have to wonder if your contribution is going to help this fellow, or hurt him.

Aggressive and violent panhandling do exist. It is hardly 'lack of compassion' to note this, and take the appropriate measures to protect oneself, and one's customers.

That why we need a more generous, compassionate government. So people won't have to beg in the streets.

to back it up, but I'm pretty sure we had more panhandlers per sq.ft. than anyplace else. I have no problem with them, and I agree, the vast majority are what you say.
My point is, this is an unnecessary law that only serves to further criminalize poverty. The aggressive/violent one's can be handled by the existing laws.

{edit}: I was born and raised in Denver so I remember what it was like and it makes me sad to see what it has become.

Go Broncos!!!

may be right. Except for one thing. The law would not criminalize poverty, per se. It would criminalize certain actions, which may, or may not be objectionable to you, but are to other people. That's where the politics comes in.

law are already illegal, this is simply a method to keep the reality out of sight. We do not have rights to freedom from offense or inconvenience. In fact, the constitution does grant the right to be annoying, offensive, and inconvenient.

But rights work in two directions. And people also have the right to criticize, disregard, or otherwise defend themselves against the annoying, offensive, and the inconvenient. There is no right to harass, even verbally, other people, which is what some small percentage of the panhandlers do.

it used to be the "brother spare a dime for busfare" but it's getting out of hand. Many panhandlers have become very violent and are chasing away tourist spending money. I myself have been almost assaulted by these panhandlers. People are not going out because they don't want to deal with them. I have seen many of them target women that usually give them money or the panhandlers start screaming and acting crazy.

The legislation in place in Memphis to crackdown on panhandling is a joke.

I'm so glad the good citizens of Denver won't be harassed or inconvenienced by the homeless. :sarcasm:

Just make them illegal. It's so much easier than dealing with poverty. :sarcasm:

And hope your family isn't next.

I'll start a collection up, so we can buy bus ticket for these poor waifs so you and the other so much more superior progressive benefactors in San Fancisco can take better care of them, since we're nothing but a bunch of calloused bastards here in the sticks. They won't take up much space in your living room. Be sure you "hook up" the one who stands on my corner for 7 hours a day. He needs to pay his rent in that $900 a month apartment he lives in right behind me.:eyes:

on this issue.

http://www.nationalhomeless.org/

And for the record, I'm not a benefactor but a survivor and a neighbor.

Most that I know have homes, when they're not in jail for dealing drugs. The homeless in Denver have places that help. The Rescue Mission has empty beds every night. Why don't these guys use them? Because to get a bed, you have to sweep the floor, cook food, do dishes, and clean toilets the next morning. These guys are too good for that.

People have a lot of reasons not to use shelters. Safety, medical reasons, not to mention, not wanting someone to dictate your life to you just because they can.

DU has a great Poverty forum with good info here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=230x580

Btw, the fastest growing demographic among the homeless are single moms. It's time we get past the stereotypes and just do something about this.

We are not all calloused assholes in this city. Save your judgementalism and superiority for someone you know better.

The only panhandling woman I know is a hooker. She's not a mother that I know of, but she does forget that I'm gay when she offers blow jobs for $20. I've been asked by her numerous times while stopped at the light of 14th and York.

to make poverty illegal.

It was my superiority complex.

:rofl:

They banned panhandling between the hours of 6am to 9pm, in one small section of town.

I saw nothing about "making poverty illegal", but you go on with your spin, somebody will buy it. :eyes:

BTW: Nice that you seem to think that every person in a city of 600,000 is an asshole.

when you live in a city like NYC and get confronted by very aggressive panhandlers, you may change your tune.

I have supported causes for the homeless many times financially and by donating items. I believe that our approach to homelessness needs some major adjustment, but it seems that most of the panhandlers I have come in contact with tend to be aggressive and almost violent while reeking of alcohol, especially on crowded subway trains. I am sure they are not winning over many people that way.

don't present the right image to the public.

:eyes:

I come from NYC, and we have our share of panhandlers, to be sure, but it is a completely different thing out West. On Pearl Street in Boulder, I was shocked to see dozens of youngish kids panhandling aggressively (Gimme this, gimme that). Then, when I lived out in SF, I saw it again, all over Haight, young kids (15-22) aggressively demanding food, money, cigarettes. Never saw anything like it in NY. Portland and Seattle, the same shit. I thought 3/4 of these little bastrds were just in for a day trip from their parents home in marin County. It's shocking.

That kinda shit does NOT fly on the East Coast. The only Panhandlers are performers and homeless people, and they are never, ever, as aggressive as the packs I had to walk through on Haight. If you've never been out there to see this bizarre phenomenon, withhold commentary.

...we passed our own version of this a few years ago, and the city has been pretty agressive in enforcing it.

I'm a pretty big guy, so I never had much hassle with the street people, but I've had friends (especially woman) who've told me they couldn't tell if they were being panhandled or mugged. In Seattle you can sit on the sidewalk with your tincup, but you can't block the sidewalk, or approach people.

Certainly it was many factors that reduced Broadway from a lively street with independent locally owned businesses to a dirty row of chain stores, but the aggressive panhandling was one of them.

frightened of everything that folks on the east coast. When I first moved out here it was one of the first things I noticed. They're living in paradise and yet they believe there is a mugger of molester behind every bush. The M$M is very effective there.

I make it a point, if I have a $5 bill, or less, to give it to a panhandler who asks. I make it a point to give nothing to the ones who demand it.

Can you believe? I have actually been called a racist for refusing to contribute to some panhandlers, although I said, or did nothing, other than say, "Sorry, I don't have any money right now."

This is the result of a quarter century of the US systematically ripping apart the social safety net. Reagan cut funding for the mentally ill, and they came flooding out of the hospitals. Clinton enacted welfare "reform" which also created more homeless wandering our nation's cities. Bush has wrecked the economy for all except the well off, and more people have been thrown onto the streets. More people, more problems. And if you criminalize pan-handling all you are going to do is make the homeless even more desperate and they will turn to more and violent crimes, burglary, assault, etc. When you have nothing, then you have nothing to lose. Besides, for the most desperate among us, mugging a passerby, or breaking into a house is a win-win. Either they get some cash and get away, or they get caught and go to jail, where there are at least three hots and a cot, more than many had out of the street.

Rather than driving the homeless to the wall like this, we should take up ML King's crusade again to wipe out poverty in our lifetime. This is the only real solution there is.

laws that have been passed all over the country. All we have to do now is designate 'homeless only' actions (public defecation for example) as felonies, then they can look forward to life in prison with no parole for having the temerity to be poor. If the penalty for begging is the same as for murder, why leave any witnesses?
I don't understand why it is so hard to grasp that escalation doesn't work.

Know everything about Denver and how callous we are, do you people?

The Rescue Mission has empty beds every night. Most of these panhandlers are drunks and druggies. I live in midtown, where this ordinance doesn't take place, and I'm accosted by aggressive ones every day.

Some have true mental illnesses, but the city takes them to hospitals, only to find that they escape, and are on the streets the next day. One old man had gangrene on his legs, and they had to be amputated because of it and frostbite. I forgot his name, but he's famous on Colorado and Colfax. It's a shame, but what can we do if he escapes from the home all the time?

One has been in transit to San Diego (sign says he has kids and a wife) for 6 years. His car still hasn't gotten new brakes.

One's sign says he's hungry. I offered to buy him an Arby's (right across the street), he said no, just money.

The one who begs on my street corner lives in an apartment behind me. I've seen him walk into it numerous times. He stands out there, yelling at cars for hours on end. Try sleeping with the constant "Hey Man! Hook me up! C'Mon man! Ah' shit! Fuck you then!" Sometimes I have the night shift, so don't give me that "cushy rich guy taking a nap" shit either.

You can't help any of these people by giving them money. The truly desperate don't panhandle, they seek help, and it's given. I've come acrossed very few who actually want a dime. They want Scotch.

EDIT: Oh' I forgot about the smelly lady who offers blow jobs for $20 two blocks over. I feel so sorry for her. She settles for a cigarette instead. Poor, desperate INDEED!:eyes:

I've seen it all (and yes, some do get belligerent):

1. The guy who lives in my neighborhood and takes a bus downtown every day to sit outside 7-11. He always has decent clothes on and is "obviously" not starving.

2. The guy who is outside Walgreens every day and is always wearing new clothes with nice, white shoes.

3. The woman who parks her car in the handicap spot on Wells street, then gets her wheelchair out of the trunk and rolls over to the Walgreens a block away.

4. The guy busted by the police for panhandling and they found out he was feeding his family and paying his mortgage with the money he makes.

Then there are all the poor souls I see like the middle-eastern mother with her daughter, the guy who has a huge chunk taken out of his leg, the blind guy who taught himself to play his electronic keyboard (he's gotten pretty good too), some schizophrenics, etc. There are a lot of people in sad shape, who I try to help. The drunks and drug abusers can't get into the shelters, so that is unfortunate too.

But I can't stand those who take advantage of others' generosity and guilt.