Pat Robertson declares war on Kwanzaa

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/news/051205f.asp

<snip>

ROBERTSON: We’re going to do a piece, I believe, tomorrow or the next day about Kwanzaa, which according to our next guest, is a total fraud. And yet they have Kwanzaa celebrations all over the schools.

GIBSON: Right. Well, that was made up, as your guest will tell, by Ron Karenga, a Black Panther in the 60s, in L.A.

ROBERTSON: A Black Panther.

GIBSON: Former Black Panther.

ROBERTSON: Radical . . . .

GIBSON: Right.

ROBERTSON: . . . . Marxist.

more...

Pat Robertson sure throws a lot of sand in people's eyes!

arrrggggg!!!!!

Big difference.

in the dictionary..... Robertson and all these jerks seem to want to prove how apropros that is on a daily basis....

Or at most to profess a belief in Jesus as some sort of deity.

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

And I don't think this line of reasoning is any more reliable than people who say liberals can't be christians because of whatever they think the liberals violate.

no physical or spiritual resemblance to the real thing.

And here as a Christian we're supposed to follow the New Testament which is where Jesus is. Eh. :shrug:

God gave everyone free will and the ability to reason. As a result, not everyone is going to make a decision you like, Rob. You want to take away people's God-given gift to choose by imposing your choice on them? Go ahead. You just destroyed something of God's by doing so, so you become a hypocrite.

After all, it was made up by greeting card manufacturers. How about Valentine's Day, not exactly a traditional Christian holiday, despite the alleged connection to "St. Valentine".

What a load of horsehit.

Fuck you Robertson, and Fuck Gibson while you're at it.

"I never did like the chili. It made me fart. And that's a trumpet call for Satan".

A trumpet call for Satan! :rofl:

I'm too damn lazy to click on the link!

Besides, what's the bg deal, Kwanzaa isn't INSTEAD of Christmas, it's IN ADDITION TO Christmas!

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of it's origins, you feel you should be able to dictate whether it should be observed by folks who wish to observe it?

What a load of bullshit.

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holiday for African Americans celebrating the unique combination of cultures that makes up their heritage, he's a racist?

You think that it's a "fraud" because . . . I forget . . . because it's for black people?

If you don't want to be branded a racist, don't display racist tendencies such as attacking a holiday for being created by and for African Americans.

By agreeing with Robertson, you are, indeed advocating dictating what people can and can not celebrate. You're the one that said you agreed with him.

For the rest of us?

It is totally made-up and discriminates against people who didn't watch "Seinfeld."

And ALL of them are manufactured. Kwanzaa is no more "real" or "fake" than xmas, Hannukah, et al... it is just a lot newer, and not wrapped around a deity.

Robertson is a fascist prick, and has NEVER ONCE said anything of any credibility. His REAL agenda is clear: Make everyone bow down before HIS version of Jesus, and to scrap ANY December holiday not associated specifically with his version of god.

That is the crux of the conservatives' phony "war on xmas".

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It's specific to a particular religion. It excludes Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, etc.

It's designed to celebrate Christianity, and as such is inherently exclusionary and religion-specific.

Christmas is Christian. Easter is Christian.

The celebrations that occurred at the same times of year in times preceding Christianity are long-forgotten by the vast majority of folks, and in no case was it referred to as "Christmas" before the birth of Christ.

Groundhog Day is also totally made-up, and discriminates against EVERY other ground-living animal. Geez, it disgusts me, personally. How about you, Kyle???

...what is the express purpose of Festivus?

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It's a REAL made-up holiday.

I see nothing evil in these. I hear the Christian right and other "conservative" people slam the black community for their inability to rise above poverty and crime. If they want the black community to better itself, they should welcome the seven principles of Kwanzaa.


the Seven principles.

(Unity) To strive for and maintain unity in the family, community, nation and race.

(Self-Determination) To define ourselves, name ourselves, create for ourselves and speak for ourselves.

(Collective Work and Responsibility)To build and maintain our community together and make our brother's and sister's problems our problems and to solve them together.

(Cooperative Economics) To build and maintain our own stores, shops and other businesses and to profit from them together.

(Purpose) To make our collective vocation the building and developing of our community in order to restore our people to their traditional greatness.

(Creativity) To do always as much as we can, in the way we can, in order to leave our community more beautiful and beneficial than we inherited it.

(Faith) To believe with all our heart in our people, our parents, our teachers, our leaders and the righteousness and victory of our struggle.

commie...

rejectionist...

no-goodnik...

:eyes:

Most celebrations and holidays are made up, fraudulent, posing, etc.

Christmas is made up. Totally. So is Easter. I'm not saying Jesus wasn't born or died/resurrected -- that's up to you to decide. But EVERYTHING surrounding both of these holidays is either made up, false, or co-opted. Etc.

Who gives a damn if it's race-specific? I;'m white, and I could care less, "Kyle."

Damn. Kinda walking the line, there, huh?

"I've been traveling a lot lately. I was over in Australia during Easter. It was interesting to note they celebrate Easter the same way we do; commemorating the death and resurrection of Jesus by telling our children a GIANT BUNNY RABBIT... left chocolate eggs in the night. Now, I wonder why we're fucked up as a race?

Where do you get this shit from? Why those two things? Why not "Goldfish left LINCOLN LOGS in your sock drawer"? As long as we're making shit up, go hog wild. At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back crawling across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it!

(young boy's voice) "Look mummy, i woke up today and there was a Lincoln Log in me sock drawer!"

(mother's voice) "That's the story of JESUS!

Who comes up with this shit? I've read the Bible, I can't find the words "bunny" or "chocolate" anywhere in that fucking book. Do you all have different books of the bible than I do?"

- Bill Hicks - Rant in E-Minor

No Lucky Charms for you, lad...

Wake up. EVERY holiday is race, religion, or culture-specific. They were all started by someone with an agenda.

If the show fits. Sorry if you don't like it, but it's a fact. This is not a personal attack on you, just stating an objective fact.

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End of story. Just admit it--you'll feel better.

Edit: oops, I'm talking to a ghost. Better luck next time, asshole

Please regale us with your knowledge and intellect.

Enjoy your stay.

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Like ridiculing Kwanzaa, just because it's black-specific.

Can't wait to hear what you think about Dr. King's day... another made-up holiday just to make them black folks happy!

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It honors a man who fought for black's civil rights. Now, how the devil is THAT fair to the white supremacists in my family? Do you have ANY idea how this makes them feel? And, this is a FEDERAL holiday. Geez, how bigoted! It's totally a made-up holiday.

:sarcasm:

Good try, though. You ALMOST sounded sincere for a second.

We have people here who think Hillary Clinton is the best thing since sliced bread, and we have other people who think she's an opportunist political hack. We generally get along, but if you're going to get up here and say a bunch of snarky shit about her without backing it up, you're still going to get banninated. We don't do freeperish Bill O'Reilly shit here, and we generally don't take kindly to people coming over here trying to start a flame war. There are plenty of places where you can do that, and this isn't one of them.

I also avoid accusing people of being trolls, but what you're doing certainly looks like something a troll might do. I'll leave it at that; we have moderators who make these sort of judgements.

Easter bunny and Santa Claus are frauds. So is Mother's day. You object to people different from you finding something they enjoy to celebrate yet you perpetuate a fraud of your own...

The Festival of Kwanzaa

Kwanzaa is a 7 day festival celebrating the African American people, their culture and their history. It is a time of celebration, community gathering, and reflection. A time of endings and beginnings. Kwanzaa begins on December 26th, the day after Christmas, and continues until New Years Day, January 1st.
Each evening a family member, usually the youngest child, lights candles in a special candleholder and discusses one of the seven principles of Kwanzaa. On the sixth day, which falls on New Years Eve, family and friends get together to enjoy a large feast and to celebrate their history, culture, and the upcoming new year.

The holiday of Kwanzaa was created by Dr. Maulana Karenga in 1966, during the period of US history in which African Americans were involved in struggles for their civil rights. This was the period of Martin Luther King, the Civil Rights movement, and Black Power.

Dr. Karenga wanted to create a holiday that would bring African Americans together in celebration of their black culture. He was inspired by the "first fruit" or harvest festivals that were celebrated throughout Africa. In fact the name he gave to the holiday, "Kwanzaa," comes from the Kiswahili phrase for "first fruit" - matunda ya kwanza. (Kiswahili, or Swahili, is the largest spoken language on the African continent and thus the language of Kwanzaa). When Dr. Karenga chose the word "kwanza" for the name of his festival he added the extra "a" at the end to give the word greater significance.

Dr. Karenga used these first fruit festivals as his model for Kwanzaa because they shared characteristics which he felt were important. These characteristics were:

The people gathered together to celebrate their crops and harvest
The people would give thanks to their Creator for a good harvest and life.
They would remember and celebrate their ancestors and the past.
They allowed the people to recommit themselves to their community.
They celebrated their history, culture, Creator, and the promise of the next year.
It was these characteristics that inspired Dr. Karenga when he developed the Nguzo Saba, or Seven Principles, of Kwanzaa. (Nguzo Saba is Kiswahili for "Seven Principles") These principles are unity, self-determination, collective work and responsibility, cooperative economics, purpose, creativity, and faith. These are the foundation of Kwanzaa.
The dates of the celebration, December 26 - January 1, were chosen to correspond to the end of the year celebrations in America. Kwanzaa begins the day after Christmas. This to bypass the commercial buying period but to take advantage of the seasonal holiday spirit.

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:eyes:

Holiday....The NERVE of them.:eyes:

using your logic, making up a holiday for a specific religion is bigoted. Making up a holiday for a specific parent is also bigoted. How dare someone invent Mother's Day.

I'm too tired from shoveling snow to set out the bait...

There is nothing wrong with being proud of who you are
and celebrating where you came from.
Various ethnic groups have their celebrations,
why not black folks too?

I am black. I have never really bought into Kwanzaa,
but I have no problem with it.

And subverted to what their white masters wanted. As a white person of European descent, I have a long and unbroken legacy of cultural tradition and history. Any black American whose ancestors were taken from their home and transported over here lost that continuity. Kwanzaa is a means of finding some connection to their cultural roots, a purpose that is by no means racist (you obviously have no idea what the word means).

And incidentally, Columbus Day is exactly what you just described - a holiday for white people that glorifies the conquest of an indiginous people.

It should be called "Genocide Day." Ick.

What's hilarious is that nobody has ever tried to hide that Kwanzaa was proposed by Ron Karenga, a Black Panther in the 60s, in L.A.

In fact, there's an official Kwanzaa website that starts of with a letter from the guy taking credit for inventing the holiday.

http://www.officialkwanzaawebsite.org/

Shall we begin now with the rich litany of historical frauds they like to call christianity? Then we can move on to whatever you want to call Pat Robertson's whorehouse of statist religion for profit.

The man's a leaking pustule.

Later I'll tell you how I really feel.

:evilgrin:

:puke: What a creep.

:rofl:

:puke:

So get off your damned high horse. You live for made-up bullshit.

Most Kwanzaa celebrants also celebrate their own religious holidays (Christian or Muslim). Various African & African-American ideas are celebrated at Kwanzaa--because the slaveholders eradicated as much directly African culture as they could.

Isn't commercialism soft-pedaled during Kwanzaa? How un-American!

This quote is also from the offical Kwanzaa website:

I don't care if it was invented by Satan himself. In my opinion any ritual where you light candles, think good thoughts, resolve to improve yourself and then eat great food is a good thing.

I guess we should only allow Hallmark to come up with our holidays, huh?

:popcorn:

Robertson your day will come. Hatred is not a virtue...

I mean seriously, it's a holiday that's just as valid as any other. They're all "made up". Even Christmas is made up. Jesus wasn't born in December...

Let people celebrate anything they want to, who are we to judge them?

Rev. Pat declares war on niggaz. What a great man Rev. Pat truly is. Just becasue he wears a suit and smiles alot doesn't mean he isn't as crazy as any homeless schizo drooling and arguing with the invisible man.This makes me sick....

I just can't fathom this.

and probably invite him to their country clubs and shit like that. Another Armstrong Williams.

them on? I would love to see that.

(pink hatters are ladies under 50, at 50 we "reduate" to the full regalia of red hat and purple clothes)

We will strangle you with our feather boas and pour hot tea in your lap, cretin.

Oh christ. people get caught up in this war on Christmas BS, and now Kwanza has to go? Why? there is very little emphasis put on African -american roots in this country. There are no holidays or recognized holidays. All Kwanza is is a celebration of African Harvest, designed to heighten the appreciation of African Americans for their own history, before tehy were enslaved, sold, and brought here.

Pat Robertson gives a great name to bad Christians everywhere.

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to review the history of Xmas, then.

Lord help us all -- the real Lord.

Connect the dots -- they are everywhere.

if they're made up generations ago.

She was ragging about Kwanzaa, and I asked how old a made up holiday had to be before it became "Real." She sputtered and said I was purposefully misunderstanding her. Whatever.

Talk about a man with messed-up priorities and warped perspective...

Ron who? Black what? Who cares?

Yep, it was founded by a Marxist, only to become yet another marketing venue...


I think in a hunderedd years or so, no one will remember anything about Karenga except that he founded Kwanzaa, which will have morphed into a form with even broader appeal and will survive despite commecialization. And no one will remeber Robertson AT ALL.

Same with O'Reilly and all these other people. Whatever happened to the second commandment from Jesus?? :shrug: (Psst it's love thy neighbor as thy self)

It's a shame that the man who started it has a checkered past (I don't have a problem with the Panthers, but his criminal record of abuse & abduction of women is a bit of a concern)

And it doesn't have the resonance of authenticity that comes from being celebrated for hundreds of years...but...

the fact is that Kwanzaa is based on pan-African traditions and imparts positive values, so it seems to me that the only reasons one could oppose it are 1, racism 2. racism or 3. anger that anybody observes any holiday other than the "christian" ones they were raised with (which is still bigotry).

So Happy Kwanzaa,

Merry Christmas,

Happy Holidays,

Happy Hanukkah,

Happy Solstice

to all!


(I deliberately left out Festivus. I'm the only person who never thought that was funny, apparently.)

He's nothing but a racist, sick-minded freak who is so warped psychologically he spews hatred. Kwanzaa was never meant to be a religious holiday and there is nothing that others can't be involved in it. Robertson's repressed racism is becoming obvious and I'd pay big money to debate him on television, because I would tear his arguments to pieces. These fundies make me so mad!

The day Pat Robertson is pushing up daisies.

> The day Pat Robertson is pushing up daisies.

There's an Elvis Costello verse that I've always found appropriate:

Faux Religio-"news" station is trying to divide us and cause a civil war if it kills them. Ass holes.

An FCC that actually followed their own regulations could well have yanked the license or fined those who put him on the air. Before Reagan systematically dismantled 50 years of media regs (that worked quite well, btw) Robertson would have been blakcballed a long time ago.

Miss Thang has her talking points down real good now.

Get that whole "ban Christmas" boogy man going.

*SLAP*

Christmas is made up. It was just made up a long time ago. Also, there is absolutely no conflict between Christmas and Kwanzaa, as Kwanzaa was created as a cultural and not a religious holiday. Plenty of African Americans celebrate both, and the timing of it was designed with that in mind. Robertson is simply an all-around bigot.