If we must put "Christ" back in Christmas

and require everyone in our "christian nation" to use religious language when referring to the holiday season doesn't it follow that we must also, then, put the MASS back in Christmas and legally require all citizens of our "christian nation" to attend church services on the morning of the 25th as opposed to the more secular traditions of presenting and opening gifts and visiting friends and family?

Time for o'lielly to put his money where his mouth is. Where will he be on X-mas morning?

it should be a Mass that everyone attends. Other services just aren't the same.

Not going to go over well with a lot of the fundies!

to learn new symbols! (I heard this from a talking head on TV but did not catch the meaning - if there is any beyond being different.)

:toast:

:-)

I have heard some people cite "ancient tradition" (that greenery was hung upside-down from the roof in early days) -- but that would have pagan implications, wouldn't it. So the novelty effect (and it being easier to group many large gifts around the tree) would seem to be the major reasons.

Personally, I feel slightly ill when I think about the implications of this -- North Americans having so much more stuff given to them at Christmas that there isn't enough space under a conventional tree.

That has nothing to do with a "Christian" Christmas.

but I'm keeping my presents!

Can I make the rules?

anybody but you.

I'm just giving you crap, man.

:toast:

:toast:

:-)

Advent precedes Christmas; it's sort of a mini-Lent. Midnight Mass is the real beginning of Christmas, followed by 12 days of celebration. Then Carnaval begins...

Of course, the "regular" American Christmas begins earlier each year. By Noon on Christmas Day, all the presents are open & everyone is stuffed. Those not watching football can make plans for the post-Christmas sales.

It was originally the twelve days of Yule, not Christmas. On the winter solstice the Norse would bring a huge log (the Yule log) into the longhouse and fire it up for twelve days of celebrating the transition from shortening days to lengthening.

For this reason and others the celebration of Christmas was outlawed in Puritan colonies in what would become the United States. And would probably be illegal to this day had, as the Rightwing would like us to believe, the United States been founded by these particular colonists.

Fortunately, the Puritan and other religious colonies were overwhelmed early on by those seeking economic freedom. The Maverick family of Hollywood fame were particularly notable for defanging these colonies. The Mavericks were in reality a family of drinking, gambling, womanizing freebooters in New England, not a family of drinking, gambling, womanizing gun fighters in the Old West as Hollywood now portrays them.

logs.

Indeed there was a big to do about Dec 25 (birth) vs Jan1 (Holy Name) vs Jan 5 (the Magi) as the gift giving day - which is not resolved to this day in Orthodox villiages - each small town or villiage has their own tradition.

The dump on English habits did indeed extend to no Xmas celebrations in the puritan colonies cities and towns.

But I had not heard of the Mavericks of New England - thanks for the heads up!

:-)

If we are going to go back to the "original," let's not be half-assed about it.

That was the rallying cry I heard a few years ago. Given that the earliest celebrations at this time of year had to do with sun worship, it makes perfect sense. :think:

how to get it in there. (We'll spell it correctly, tho!)

Paga-Christmas? Christpaganmas?

Oh, heck, just bring in the freaking tree. That counts.

:evilgrin:

I'm done with eostrus and I'm not going back.

Send me a lily.

:P

Why do people have to go to that level of hate on this forum? What must you people openly make fun on a religion.

You are no better than the morons that hate all Islamic people because of the actions of some extremist.

Maybe some day, if you are lucky, you will have a Christian elected president. And, if you are lucky, our nation's capital will put up a symbol of Christmas by the White House. We can only dream of such a world where Christians are oppressed.

LOL

composed of allusions. Notice the xmas tree was my own, not the Daily Shows.

On edit: I was trying to be lighthearted and fun. If you really want me to bash your persecution mindset without reference to the Daily Show, I will. It won't be lighthearted though, and will probably involve a lot of profanity. We should probably take it somewhere else though. Come over to the atheists forum and start a post about Christian hating and I promise I won't quote daily show once.

"hate" of Christianity?

having fun with it.

I fight with most these folks over religion every day on DU - and this thread seems mostly fun tongue in check stuff to me.

I was actually poking fun at Bill O'lielly's rhetoric more than anything else. He and others at fox news are the one's hyping this non-issue. Myself and others are as others have said simply calling out people that speak hypocritcally. I've never heard O'lielly tell people to get out of the malls and back into church.

Happy Holidays.

I get too angry when watching O'lielly - thanks for doing it for me!

I thought you were just calling out people that speak hypocritically - but I could not be sure.

I'm glad the rest of the crowd also went the tongue in check route as there is enough hate - of everything - in this world already.

:toast:

:-)

religion, or hold their values. I'm a "holiday Christian," but am closer to being a true Christian than Dobson, Falwell, Robertson, and the rest of the Fundie Right.

There does not seem to be anything Christian about them. They do not seem to hold "Christian values." They do not help the poor and downtrodden and vocally support war and the death penalty. They vociferously attack gays. But they embrace the teaching of Intelligent Design. If they truly believe God created man can they not believe that gays are human too? Are they dissing God when they gay bash? We all know what Jerry Fallwell, Pat Robertson, etc. believe in. They believe in power and greed and want things their own way whether Christ enters into it or not.

this isn't hate, this is teasing.

When they talk about "the dead guy on the stick," that's hate.

However, one of my favorite jokes was about "Pope on a rope soap" so maybe I'm not a very good defender of the faith.

over a date that didn't go well. We range from that up to about getting stuffed in a locker on the int0rweb persecution scale. Nothing up to actual incitement to violence. As much as we tend to argue (we average what, one, two locked threads a week over religion?), we get along medium-ok.

I'm currently working in Alexandria, Egypt. The week I got here, in October, the Coptic Christians and the Muslims were having street battles and riots. These celebrations of religious diversity left several people dead and more hospitalized. Churches, mosques, stores and people's houses were torched.

THAT'S hate.

Being mildly joked about in an internet forum seems pretty mild by comparison.

Mandatory Full Disclosure: yes, I am a Grumpy Atheist.

I just looked at your profile where you have this link: http://www.combativesolutions.com/

Talk about hate and violence!!! Look at the HATEFUL expressions of these guys! Is this how Jesus would resolve a conflict?



"The Goal of Combative Solutions is to research and develop the most effective methods of combat." - Well, so much for peaceful, CHRISTIAN solutions to conflict. :eyes:

It is a sport. If you don't understand that, nothing I say will ever change your mind.

above... and, considering your "sport," I find it hypocritical in light of your broad accusation.

Btw, no where in the Christian Bible does Jesus say "punch or wrestle with your enemy."

Judism, there would be an out cry.

All I am saying is that it does bother me when I see my religion put down so openly. I find it sad.

I don't make fun of anyone's religion. To me it is not fair game, even if it is being used against me.

peace

eom

They are poor excuses for Christians.

there would not be such a problem.

private property.

If they want to say "Merry Christmas," hell, let'em. Let it be like having Masons give their secret sign or handshake when they see each other.

What I have a problem with is making me join their club, pay their dues, follow their rules when I participate in public discourse, and if I don't want to, they have the government sponsorship to punish me for me a religious bigot.

I'll stay home with my family (and nevermind that this year, it's on a Sunday).

:rofl:

That's bad. :spank:

I want it, especially considering all this "war on Christmas" BS.

Christ's teachings back into Christianity?

The perfect counter-catchphrase, IMO!

Aid homeless and poor people in their communities.

Matthew 25

35
For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
36
naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'
37
Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38
When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39
When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?'
40
And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'

I will be a volunteer worker at Frist's local hospital, so that the Christian security dept workers can spend Christmas with their families.

on the board in front of school it says off for holidays, and then gives dates. they did NOT put christmas. bad texas repug public school. gonna go after a business, bring it on

state had advert for ornaments. they called them texas state house ornaments. that is so anti christmas. they MUST call them state hous christmas ornaments. i want a lot of apologizing going on here in the state of texas. everyone trip all over yourself for being anti christmas

btw.... someone pointed out. holiday means holy day. is this true. cuase what ammunition that is

maybe if we yell at everyone who uses holiday, they will see how stupid they are being and get mad at the oreilly's, cause holiday s used a lot, always has been and has nothing to do with staying away from christ and christmas

how dare they refer to Halloween as a "holiday"!

Oops, I forgot -- Christmas used to be rightly disparaged
by puritan reformists (in the 1600s no less) as every bit
as pagan as Halloween.

And yes, they need to start by putting the "Christ" back in Christianity.

and home by 2. Then the grandkids will have me up before dawn.

:-)

If you're gonna be a Christian, I say you have to get up on Sunday morning and get dressed up and get your ass to church. Period.

But on Christmas midnight counts.

Although when I sang in the choir we did Xmas Eve and then back for Xmas Day.

A Saturday night midnight mass is what we'll have this year, and that's cool--as it should be. I used to drive home by a large Catholic church here in my small town, and their parking lot was always full on any early Saturday evening. I guess in theory it doesn't or shouldn't matter when you go to church, but if you're going to bend that little rule/custom purely because you want to go out and party later on, well, seems a little hypocritical.

Really - ya know who wins between the war on Christians and "secular progressives" with this crap about Christmas? The retailers. And the almighty dollar.

How dare you. ;-) We have freedom OF holiday advertising, not freedom FROM holiday advertising. Not even before Thanksgiving! Remember, it's the speech we most detest that is most in need of protection, especially in times of low consumer confidence...

;-)

Like Farwell, Roberston, Dodson, etc. Christians are usually protrayed as looney birds by Hollywood. But a silent majority of us just have a good relationship with Christ and don't stand in judgement of others religious preferences.

but only as a reflection of their role in our culture. Unfortunately, the loonybirds like Robertson, Falwell, Dobson, and worse, the nuts on the religious channels, are the self proclaimed spokespeople of the Christian faith. Hollywood is not that creative, they do not manufacture stereotypes.

The silent majority better stand up and denounce these people if they want to take their religion back. Jim Wallis and others try, but are denounced. This begs the question: is there really a silent majority as you claim?

"their reflection of their role in our culture"...what the hell does that mean? Christians for the most part represent what's good and moral in our society. God created laws of conduct so we won't destroy ourselves. Without these laws, we would live in chaos. Sounds like a pretty significant role to me.

Yes, there is a silent majority of people who want to live a moral life without influence from Hollywood-created sterotype. Hollywood is the creator of sterotypes...don't you watch movies?

When only the loonies of a group speak out, it should not be surprising when everyone outside the group conclude that the loonies speak for the group.

The "silent majority", almost by definition, are in agreement with the (perceived) spokespersons. If you disagree with the loonies, don't remain silent!

When the loonies speak out it's assumed all Christians feel the same. That's my point. But there is diverse thinking among different groups of Christianity. We are not all united in thought. Just as we sterotype a race of people such as Mexicans, etc., we assume they all act and think the same way, Christians are all individuals with their own opinions.

than I did. If no one says otherwise, people will accept the loonies as the the representation they claim to be. We need a lot more people like Jim Wallis willing to speak truth to religion, and endeavor to put Christ back in Christianity.

As for Hollywood, I do think that is a case of art imitating life. I simply am unwilling to give them credit for any creative ability to do otherwise. I don't believe movies create stereotypes so much as reinforce them.

Time for o'lielly to put his money where his mouth is. Where will he be on X-mas morning?

He'll be f**king himself with his new dildo and thinking of falafel and and Andrea Mackris' "spectacular boobs." Pervert.

You know how hard it can be.

because I pretty sure that Rev Foulwell holds the registered trademark on Christ.