I think that Kerry losing was the best thing that could happen to us.

Now, put down the pitchforks and hear me out..

If Kerry had been recognized at the winner, what would we have had?

- still stuck in Iraq, trying to find a way out, and all the evil that has surfaced there would have been hung around the Democrats neck.

- Kerry being hunted just like Clinton was, trying to find ANYTHING to hang around his neck to destroy him

- still stuck with a 'thug Congress, stonewalling everything Kerry would have tried to do.

- the item above would have prevented any sort of economic reform, so we would still be in the tank there.

- the 'business cartel' would have made sure that gas would be at $4.50 a gallon by now, prices higher than a kite and interest rates even higher, all of this leading to..

- the '06 election would have been a 'thug landslide, with them point at "the failure of Iraq", "skyrocketing prices" and everything else...

- '08 would see Kerry defeated and the 'thugs solidifying their power base for the next 40 years.

But what have we gotten now?

yeah, some really bad stuff, but I think 98% of it is fixable (nothing 'fixes' the lives lost in Iraq/Katrina/etc..). and in addition...

- the arrogance of the 'thugs have tripped them up. They thought the could do no wrong. Their mistake.

- they've shown their true selves to the nation and the world, and it's to their downfall.

- they've pissed off the wrong people in the military and some business, that's why people are turning on them and letting 'cats out of the bag' (DeLay,"Duke",Libby,et.al.)

I think it's a damn good chance that not only will we take control in '06 (not a landslide, we still have voting machines) and if things get even worse and MORE IS EXPOSED, we retake the WH in '08/'12 and beyond.

The real KEY to once and for all defeating the neo-thug cartel is getting in in '08, change the electoral system so that it can't be stolen again and turn this nation on it's head (health care, bring back jobs, REAL tax reform for the people, not the corp) in such a way that NO ONE will DARE try to undo it again. Done right, and the 'thugs are done for the next 30 years, and will be split into two branches that will have to fight each other as well as the Dem's.

I guess I look for silver linings, but in the long run, this may have been just what we needed.

In their endorsement they said things in the US were so messed up the best thing to do would let a Dem take things over. Things would still be a mess in 4 years when he came up for re-election because the situation has no quick solutions and republicans would win and they could blame the dems for that state of the union.

This * and his cronies are the biggest pieces of shit on the planet.

Where's that * poo-flag?

check out my site at
www.littleflagart.com
i am working on new sticker/flag series' media whores (Miller, Novak, Woodfward, etc.), cronies (Libby, Bolton, Hadley, Rove, etc.), with other topics too... maybe religiosos...
let me know what you think, or if you have any suggestions...

:kick:

positions :D

Because, if he had won, the full extent of Nixon's corruption would never have been revealed.

And now everyone knows how the republicans are. I always say I believe everything happens for some purpose. Hopefully it's to make our country stronger in the long run and we can learn from our mistakes as a country.

-- With Kerry, there would be hope to get out of Iraq
-- He would take care of deficits
-- He could reverse tax cuts
-- He would take care of job creation

But, of course, he was doomed. The whole idea was to get spinelss rightist dem as ex-candidate.

I'm not one of them.

DUers can and must develop the power of thinking positive. This thread shows that in spades.

:shrug:

(war, Katrina - remember those?)

:puke:

Kerry losing was bad. eom

-Laelth

I will not be supporting Kerry in the primaries if he runs, but, imo, it's undeniable that Kerry would have made a far better president than the current pResident. We'd be much better off with him in the WH.

As someone else pointed out, irrepable damage is being done. We all will be paying for dumbya's mistakes as will our children. Some are paying with their lives.

Sorry, can't go along with your silver lining theory.

either.

Kerry would be being blamed for everything and now all the court cases against the repukes are coming to fruition. The court though will be lost for decades if they approve dimson's appointments.

has any legal authority behind it. don't forget this. and don't play along to get along; these people will kill us in the millions if they can, if they feel it's needed...
to make it easy to think about, it's 'good' versus 'evil' just like that gopig (bush) says

"The real KEY to once and for all defeating the neo-thug cartel is getting in in '08, change the electoral system so that it can't be stolen again"

This is at the heart of everything. I like your post except for the subject line - K didn't lose.

Instead of -

"I think that Kerry losing was the best thing that could happen to us."

You could say -


'I think that the election being stolen from Kerry and Edwards was the best thing that could have happened to us.'

And while we are musing, we should never let up on GE, Murdoch, Time-Warner, and the owners of ABC and CBS - because they had equal responsibility for the theft. They hired the exit polling companies, therefore they owned the data, and they manipulated it to coordinate it with the chosen winning numbers by precinct and by per cent.

It started with voting and it has to end by taking re-possession of our vote.

and said "If Kerry had been recognized at the winner".

I think it is true or will prove to be so.

I think the scariest job in the world today is to be a Republican facing election in 2006. They should be scared.

I think too many judge business as some monolithic organization. Probably the BEST business leaders in our country came out against W in 2004 - much to their own risk. Iacocca, Jobs, Buffet (on Kerry's economic team, no less) etc..

Those are many of the people we studied in business school. Legends of American business.

I think they came out a little too late against the "R"'s last time. But you can bet they won't make the same mistake twice, either.

In a great sense, what happens in 2006 and in 2008 is a fight between the old guard and the new guard. I look at it as oil vrs the 21st century.

The fight will be decided in 2006. Just a few months, really.

Again, very good post.

Joe

power, those who dislike the democratic party would always attack them and blame them for everything anyway, my God, they are doing it even now, hinting that everything that turns out bad is somehow the Dems fault...

They will never stop those assaults, dont fool yourself. We needed Kerry in there..

In terms of the crappy bills that have gotten through the Republican Congress (Bankruptcy, Budget, tax cuts, etc.) Kerry would or may have been able to prevent those from becoming a very bad reality with a veto, just like Clinton did.

Otherwise, I couldn't agree more.

.. make the bills Veto Proof? If so, then we would still be in the pile we're in now.

They've stolen America, and they're not about to give it back, ever. And I don't see people rolling up their sleeves and getting ready to take it back the hard way.

Kerry was our last chance. Four years from now, "border security" may well take on an entirely different meaning, as the criminals in charge desperately try to keep Americans like us from running like hell with what little we have left.

You're right. The GOP and the gigantic money behind it won't give up without a fight. It is an uphill battle for the dems...the real ones that is. We're not even sure which dems are interested in changing the status quo; it's not clear! I suspect many of the opposition party leaders are just fine with the general direction of building American empire by concentrating power and degrading democracy.

It's going to get ugly. Already is! If you listen to MSM and RW talk, you'll hear that libels are attacking Christmas! Who could have believed it? Who could have believed we'd be running polls on whether or not it's OK to torture?

Because they are ruthless and immoral, the GOP has unlimited new tools with which they can alter public perception. There will be the 2006 version of SBVT and gay marriage and much more...

In sports, the underdog needs all kinds of things to fall in place in order to win. Preparation, the emergence of some heroes, luck, team unity, good game plan...some help from the umpires too. This is our position now. We need to take advantage of everything we can...we need to score on the opportunities given to us, be aggressive, put team disruptors on the bench, and go for broke. Mistakes could double against a favorite.

I thought we were starting to do that last month when Reid shut down the senate. Since then? We've lost momentum on that issue and no one is thinking about it. Missed opportunity....just like all of them.

Bleech....forget it. Time to go work out.

,...before confronting reality.

I suppose that, there is the potential of maturing,...from these sick/dysfunctional times in the life of our nation. At least, I HOPE such maturation will occur, this time.

I love it when "strategists" forget what it's all about - not appearances but actual people's lives. This is not game. Shame on you!
I said the same to Nader when he was praying for a cataclysm that will benefit the Green party.

P.S. Kerry won. Pass it on.

The truth is (or became) the repubs are better cheaters than anyone thought.

He didn't fight for it though, did he (Kerry)??

We better be prepared to fight this one - all the way.

It is a gut check. We do have significant forces, allies.

In less than a year, that fight is coming. And we better win.

Kerry is not a practical answer, will not get the job done. Probably never would have.

And the truth is, it doesn't even matter now.

We are where we are, and it is up to us to win the fight coming. And it is coming. Viet Nam died because of a dem congress funding vote. I wonder how many kids lived because of that very vote.

Joe

by conceding so easily - this OP is part of the symptom. people still think we have elections...

We all saw what a great man he was in the 1970s--Oh, he was, but

He lost it.

He sure didn't fight at all - man.

I understand Edwards would have. Kerry belongs in the senate.

We need a stronger president now - and Kerry is not it.

Personally I like General CLark, I like, maybe more now - Dean.

And the truth is - We better have someone that can win.

I have read your posts. We do agree, a fighter might have won in 2004. And if we didn't, we would have fought the good fight.

In ten or eleven months, I think we do fight for all the marbles.

The saddesst day of my life was the day I came in and listened to him concede.

Never again.

Joe

where Edwards says they should have fought it from any known media source. Neither Kerry or Edwards were willing to concede on Nov 2, 2004. The only "proof" is someone saying that a relative of Edwards told someone he wouldn't concede. As this is constantly repeated, Edwards should be asked, on the record, what he wanted done.

Given the numbers, the lack of proof that could be used in court, the political reality in Ohio (none of the courts would have done them any favors), what would Edwards have done if it was his decision? Then remember Fallujah was starting.

Rather than risk being attacked as "sore losers" capitulated and allowed most people in this country to think W actually won. Whenever I see a clueless post lile the OP in this thread, I blame those two. For the ignorance.
For the utter cynicism, OP is responsible him/herself.

The system by which we vote has to be made at least as secure as any other important transaction. I have used ATM thousands of times - and have never gotten bad information. (Some times they're not working, but that is not the same thing.) The problem with the system is that it has been proven that it CAN be manipulated.

In a way, if Bush actually won the election, Kerry is still a victim of this mess of a system because he can not prove either way what the true results are - and it never previously was the candidate's job to do so. For many people on the left, Kerry is blamed and the reputation he earned over his 30 plus year career for honesty and integrity is disputed.

Kerry is a sponsor or co-sponsor for several pieces of legislation designed to fix the problem. He has also spoken out on it several times and has tried to motivate people to deal with it at the local level (where elections are run).

When the numbers are what they were, no sane Presidential candidate would have not conceded. What would he use as his justification.

The theft is the primary crime, but the lie itself (that even you buy to some extent) is damaging too - as it makes us fight the wrong battles ("the perfect candidate" "work harder" raise more money" - all meaningless in a no elections country)

and that would have shown this country, once and for all, that the BFEE and their cronies exist to profit off terror, chaos and war.

And once BCCI characters were fully revealed, there is no way the Bush family could fool this country ever again.

bush got in and this is what is happening so if it comes out for the better for those who believe in Democracy(and I'm thinking it will)then it will have been worth it.

This way bush is being exposed for the incompetant mentally challenged smirk that he is..some fine footage of, too, I'll bet(are you gathering it, Michael Moore?).

The ones I know are pretty sheepish.

are going up in Iraq. Psssst. They aren't going to leave...not now, not ever, never...not until the last drop of oil ... is ...put on a tanker.

Don't lie to our faces, man. Even the PsyOps and Op Mockingbird aren't that blatant. Show some finesse and panache. But noooooooo. Bush has to impersonate John Lovitz for cryin out loud. It's a daily embarassment. I almost hear the "Yeah, that's the ticket" after every speech he gives.

And we've got to endure THREE MORE YEARS.

Just once I'd love to see a sheepish republican. Haven't managed that yet, but you're giving me hope.

Sometime after they crawl out from under the rocks, post-Hillary's second term, maybe the election of 2020 or so, they're actually going to have a new fucking name. Watch out, everyone.

And he would've had a republican controlled government. They surely wouldn't have let him have his judges. While I'm pissed off they stole it and all of that the only good thing is we can hopefully win back the House and Senate and get justice for all that has happened all the way from 9/11 to Iraq to Katrina response.

but from his comments (I think when Owens et al were being confirmed) he would have worked with congress to get excellent jurists who were acceptable to the mainstream.

Every President gets judges - he might have some rejected - but he keeps getting to pick the ones nominated.

was that Bush would go down hard, much like Hoover did. He certainly deserved to. He should also, like Hoover I believe, have swept alot of the Republican incumbents out to the curb with him. When I saw on election night that, as usual, most of the incumbents had been re-elected, then the Presidential election meant alot less to me. It is still very disheartening that he didn't go down hard.

I can't wait till Toby Keith and the Dixie Chicks start doing concerts for Impeachment together.

I'm gonna run outside and see if the moon turned purple.

I doubt that dude would ever say a thing against the chimp.

will hate neocons by the time it is all over.

Two big things you're forgetting:

First, Kerry would have picked very different Supreme Court Justices. Granted, Congress would not have allowed true progressives as Justices, but they would have been much better. As a woman and a lawyer, I'm afraid of us losing our right to choose and relaxing corp. regulations (further).

Second, I believe that countries around the world would have welcomed us into their good graces once Bush was gone. Kerry would have apologized for Bush's egotistical reign, and we would have been safer in the end.

.. it can still happen. I talk to a lot of friends overseas I trade videos with, and the VAST majority believe the the '04 election was rigged and really don't hold it against the American People... the government yes, but government changes.

because you're right. In a sick twisted ungodly way you're right and it's exactly what I said as soon as the media called it a * victory.

I said now they've really made their beds and they're gonna have to fuckin sleep in it.

Too bad the rest of us have to as well.

The supreme court is much too much to gamble with.

.. with the PROPER investigations.

Scalia might be a better target than Roberts

in their testimony before the Congress during their 'confirmation'???

dig deep enough and something would come up.

the heartless bastiges in all branches of gummint with that "R" thingy adangling from their formerly good names.

What does "R" stand for now anyways ? Repentantant Repetitive Republican

tell that to someone who lost their home in New Orleans!

The truth is, I'm sorta glad it worked out this way, despite the carnage and pain of SchiavoWatch, the continuing war in Iraq, economic and environmental destruction and the horrors of Katrina, for most of the reasons you mention.

And the big one you left out. Some of you on this board know what I'm talking about. I'm quite certain it would have happened by now, had Kerry's election been recognized. Then the Dems, who would have watched while our new president was forced into taking the kind of action we never imagined a leader from his generation of liberals would ever take, could have seen Kerry fall, and the Republicans sweep '05, '06 and '08-20. Plus, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be alive anymore.

Kerry as CIC would have had the power to change the war starting in Jan 2005. He would have probably started working on the political angles even before he was innagerated. I think that the trip he made to the ME and Europe would have been done as President elect. His goal to restore some stability and get out would be HIS REAL GOAL. It's true he would be blamed for any violence that happenned, but fewer people would likely have died.

Kerry would have also worked very hard to restore America's image to what it was five years ago. In an odd way, his complex background would have made him effective in convincing the world that he would not support breaking international laws - as he was brave enough to stand against Nixon as a 27 year old.

We wouldn't have the bankrupcy bill, CAFTA (as it is), any fear of drilling in ANWR, any fear of private accounts in SS, the tax cuts would definately not be made permanent - all because of President Kerry's veto power. A President Kerry would not have an EPA increasing the allowed Mercury level or making it easier to polute. The gag rule a not letting money be spent if an organization offers abortion would be suspended. He would likely have picked pretty mainstream SCOTUS (and lower court) justices - per his comments on the controversial judges (Owens etc).

Would he be able to enact anything? One skill he has shown throughout his life is the sbility to find a way to get people to agree, whether it was the POW/MIA committee or one of his volunteer arbitration efforts. But even if he was not able to do anything positive, not doing all the negative mentioned in the last paragraph would be major.

Would the Republicans try to bring him down - of course - but they haven't stopped trying to do that after he lost - Kerry has the strength of character to continue doing what is right. It is also clear they had absolutely nothing on him; both his service and his protesting were within the law and done with dignity. He really is one of the cleanest politician around. No matter who we get, the RW will try destroying them. Kerry is at least as strong as any candidate in dealing with this - as he has since 1971.

I do think a President Kerry would have actively worked on the election issues, because even if he would have won, I assume he would both see the risk and because I think he was genuinely outraged.

So, thst leaves exposing the RW for what it is. I would bet that simply having them out of the Presidency would have freed some of the silenced journalists. I do think that the Kerry who is still involved occasionally on BCCI issues would have addressed at least those things (like BCCI) that affect our safery or our democracy.

Judging from his decision to not humiliate Nixon, who I think he could have brought before his POW/MIA committee, instead letting him answer questions in writing suggests he would definately not vindictively go after the Bush administration. (This amazes me because Nixon ordered his staff to destroy Kerry when he was a 27 yr old war hero still dealing with the nightmare of Vietnam and the hassasment clearly hurt his first wife.) I do think he would go after those things that allowed for abuses of power.

I assume that he and First Lady, Teresa would not have waited 2 days to respond to Katrina. In the Senate, he seems to be one of the first to respond to things. It would still be a mess, but it wouldn't have been so badly mismanaged.

... to even float that idea here, but I more or less agree with you.

The country hadn't hit bottom hard enough yet in Nov 2004. Kerry would have just inherited all these messes, and in sharp contrast to many here - I don't think there is a thing anyone can do to fix Iraq, so he would have gotten the blame for botching that.

The Supreme Court is the main dark cloud, but Scalito isn't confirmed yet :)

you describe will be changed significantly. So we should still let the mess to the GOP to fix.

This said, if you mean that political junkies are better off because it is easier to be in the opposition than in the majority, you are right.

If you mean that people are better off, you are damned wrong. It certainly would have been difficult for Kerry to do what he wanted, but he would have started and hopefully, there would be competent people at the key posts rather than croonies and we will be in the process of solving the problems, not of increasing them.

Had Kerry gotten his rightful win, a lot of people who are dead today would have luved. No way are you going to put lipstick this little fact.

was that * would be stuck with the mess that he created from 2000-2004 and that it would be a chain around Repub necks in 06 & 08....

I guess you're lucky none of your family is in Iraq or NO. Lucky, lucky you, sitting home in comfort and counting OUR blessings...:puke:

If Kerry had fought the election results and won (something pretty much impossible, I think), he'd have had a Republican majority in Congress spending all their time investigatig Kerry's traitorous actions in VietNam. We'd still have a Republican media in place to blame all the problems on Kerry's administration.

Republicans have no one to blame now. The seeds of their agenda are bearing fruit and more and more Americans are realizing just how bitter it is. I think it is far more important that we change America from the bottom up instead of trying to change it from the top down. When 90% of Americans repudiate the Republican Syndicate, we can stand united and develop a progressive agenda to put this country back on the right track.

While the short term results are disappointing, perhaps it is better for the long term that Bush preside over the disaster that he worked so hard to create in the 1st term. I think we will finally be united in 2006 and there will be a grassroots solidarity to support investigations and jail everyone of these bastards who have distorted and co-opted our country for their personal benefit.

And I hope Kerry is the point man to run these investigations.

with most of your theory here.

The thing is that the GOP has to be shown for what they really are in the stark, clear dayight. With them in complete control right now, there really is no one else to blame. Their policies are failures and it's becoming painfully clear to most people now. Although it sucks to have to go through all this, it's a lesson American sorely needed to learn. My hope is that, like you suggest, when we get through this we can finally work on an agenda that will truly move us forward and make America better.

:shrug:

Lives don't enter into the "strategery". I so hate when people "on our side" talk like THEM! (Ex: karen Huges: "The tsunami proved to be a great opportunity for us" and other homilies'

not that I hope to prove you wrong. ...I do actually think though that the positive is that now people are finally waking up to how corrupt and incompetent these guys are...and that we're gonna have a replacement relatively soon. (without that kind of faith, I couldn't get out of bed anymore)

(I didn't know about DU then), so obviously I agree with you, with one exception;
"but I think 98% of it is fixable"
On this point I think you're wrong. The evil bastards achieved most of their agenda in the first term while we were distracted by 9/11, the war, the SC coup, etc.
Because they passed the laws, the damage cannot be undone except by repealing those laws, which we can't do without a super-majority of both houses and the whitehouse. Our citizens will still be relegated to the status of serf by the bankruptcy law. The super wealthy will still not have to pay even the pitiful taxes they had to before the cabal took power. Corporations will still enjoy the benefits and privileges bestowed upon them without any accountability, and will still be subsidized in exporting jobs and capital out of the country. Our elderly will still be forced to subsidize the pharmaceutical industry. The independent farmers will still be victimized by the agri-corps, and on, and on, and on.

...at the hands of the neocons.

I understand that you are hoping for a galvanization of American moderates, and I'll join you there. America, however, is significantly worse off in the past year than I think it would have been under a Kerry Administration.

I see where you're coming from and there's no denying that the Democratic party is a lot stronger since the commander in chimp is still in there but the reason we're not better off is that if Kerry had taken up residence at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, the body count in Iraq would have been a lot lower over the past 11 months.

And let's not forget babs on Katrina victims:

And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them."

Glad we grow smart and callous like THEM!

it would only have "validated" Bush if Kerry won. Kerry wouldn't have been able to do anything. (didn't say why, but I think the implication was Congress wouldn't have let him) The same shit would have happened because of uncontrollable factors and left over problems from Bush. (I think you could look at Katrina to see that if Kerry was in office, it would have been put squarely on his shoulders.)

That would be a big fat NO.

I disagree.

to know something about electronic voting, and who owned and controlled these voting systems, so it didn't take me long to figure out--or formulate a working hypothesis about--what they'd done. I think the overt, racist vote suppression in Ohio (also Florida and some other places) was very telling. They likely had to pre-program the electronic voting machines and central tabulators, and didn't want to be too obvious about the tweaks they did with the numbers. But Kerry didn't just win (by the 3% margin in the real exit polls), it was a blowout (4% to 5% or better--when all purged voters, and Blackwell-tossed provisional ballots, etc., are figured in), and the Bushites were running scared; thus the very visible and illegal vote suppression, to stem the tide.

The theft of the election was a catastrophe, of course. And it had an extremely depressing effect on the fabulous grass roots antiwar campaign that developed around Kerry's candidacy, but I was heartened that that grass roots campaign DID develop--to oust this murderous, thieving Cartel. This was the FIRST sign that I had seen, since, oh, Nov. 2000, that the American people were alive and awake, and trying to do something.

I wept over their loss--our loss. It was so tragic--not to lose, but to get your chest kicked in that way, to get the breath knocked out of you, the wind out of your sails--to achieve victory and have it snatched from you--and NOT TO KNOW what had been done to you, or by whom, or how!

And that's what energized me. They DON'T KNOW about Diebold and ES&S and the secret, proprietary programming code. They DON'T KNOW what the corporate news monopolies did to their exit poll numbers late on election day (FALSIFYING the numbers to hide evidence of a Kerry win). They don't really know what a huge problem we have with the election system and the war profiteering corporate news monopolies.

My faith in the American people--and my read on the situation--has time and again been justified. I studied the issue polls. 58% of the American people opposed to the Iraq war before the invasion. (Feb. '03). 63% of the American people oppose torture "under any circumstances" (May '04). No way these people voted for Bush. No way. The issue polls all say that the American people disagree with Bush on every major policy, foreign and domestic, way up in the 60% to 70% range. So do the approval polls.

And all the analysis of the election since then has borne this out. The election was stolen, and the American people desperately need to know that it was, and what the remedies are, and what our strategies need to be to restore our right to vote.

They also need to know that their vote is WORTH stealing--that it is a very valuable item; it IS our sovereignty as a people (or the mechanism of it), and these corporate criminals KNOW THAT. They know we have the right and the potential power to dismantle them! They spend billions to propagandize us, relentlessly. It HAS NOT WORKED. And so, they grab control of the election system, to dictate to us who our candidates can be, and who will win. Why? Because people are getting on to their war crap, and their big military budget crap, and their disloyalty to this country. And with honest, transparent elections, people would be throwing their bought and paid for politicians out of office, and demanding serious reform.

I think that the electronic voting coup happened too fast, and under the radar (totally blackholed as a news story) for people to catch up with it. With a propagandist news media, people are relying on word of mouth and on the internet. There is also the corruption and collusion of some Dem Party leaders on electronic voting. (This absolutely destroyed their chances of finding out in time.) So most people don't really know what happened, and many are very demoralized and depressed, in addition to being disenfranchised.

They need to fight for their right to vote. They need to vote in great numbers, to overwhelm the fraud, while we work to repair the election system. They need to reclaim their SOVEREIGNTY, that was established by the American Revolutionaries 200 years ago, and that is nearly gone now.

And that, to me, is an energizing, eyes wide open battle, and one that we can and will win.

--------
Kerry


I'm still not prepared to judge his action on Nov. 2, 2004. I don't feel that I have enough information. I think he was in a terrible bind, with a very hostile Congress, a very hostile press, and a very hostile Supreme Court, and no backing from Dem Party leaders--they wouldn't support a challenge (because some of them were collusive and corrupt on electronic voting and on the war). It was hopeless and he didn't have a lot of native trust in the people. I also think he was ill advised on electronic voting (by Christopher Dodd, among others). And who knows what else may have been happening? He was up against the most dangerous criminals on earth. The system--our political leaders, and the "balance of powers" in our institutions--failed HIM, as much as he failed us (if he did).

Rosco T., I think your analysis is very interesting as a description of where we are now--but not of anything anybody here wanted to happen. Nobody here wanted Kerry to lose. But the fact is that they stole it--and got away with it. So maybe THAT coming out is a good thing, and will lead to an even stronger revolt by the American people, when it comes (and I do think it will).

the ones that are still alive, that is.

Or the wife/child/father/sister/etc. of someone who has been disfigured or traumatized beyond repair in Iraq.

I know you didn't mean to be callous. But it's too easy for us -- who haven't been faced with that death notice -- to say everything is "fixable."