Is anyone esle annoyed with the proselytizing of the Narnia movie?

When I was little I loved "The Lion, the witch, and the wardrobe" from the Narnia series,it is still one of my favorite books to read today, and when I first saw the previews months ago for the movie version, I wanted to see it. When I was little I could care less about the symbolism, and I still don't. But the proselytizing of the movie by fundies, like Robertson and others is making me sick :puke: and has turned me off from even seeing movie. Does anyone else feel this way??

...without much knowledge of CS Lewis and his life...

These people are driving me nuts.

The two greatest forces in the world, good and evil, can be symbolized in almost anything. I think these nut cases are taking the joy out of everything and God is not pleased...but that is just what my spirit tells me.

Wait till you see the full-on big budget multi-part Lord-of-the-Rings-inspired version of the entire freaking bible (including the war in heaven, the fall of Lucifer, and of course, the book of Revelations). Brought to us by our very own febrile christo-fascist wack-job Pat Robertson. Now in pre-production. This brain-melting assault of dominionist christianity on our country is just getting under way.

For real.

Oh BTW, you didn't hear any of this from citizen J.

:evilfrown:

I might not applaud or laugh at the right moments but I'm always up for a good special effects fantasy.

:evilgrin: :popcorn:

it is the role both of them were born to play.:evilgrin:

I think Satan is going to be played by a digital chimera with dna from Monty Hall, Rush Limbaugh and Bea Arthur. Mickey Rourke is Jesus. They're going for realism on this one.

:evilgrin:

All his political donations go to Dems.

http://www.newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/Monty_Hall.php

Yes but Monty is an icon. He's a game show host, which is analogous in important ways to whatever it is religious leaders like Pat Robertson and friends do for a living. Decidedly Satanic if you ask me.

:evilgrin:

NT

literal interpretation of the bible.

And it needs to be just as realistic as the bible says all of it actually was. Kids getting eaten by bears, even.

It needs to be exposed to the public using imagry they will never forget. Then, and only then, will the public begin to seriously question the fundamentalist interpretation.

Of course, then the film would end up contradicting itself numerous times and at the same time piss off just about every minority on the planet, but that needs to be exposed as well.

Like fathers giving their daughters to traveler? Incest? Rape etc?

good vs evil ( Bill Murray was Jesus):-)

The thumpers are idiots. They won't take away my pleasure in the story. My two children ( now 33 and 21 ) loved these books, and I look forward to the movie.

spoil your enjoyment of the movie. But the Narnia series is explicitly a Christian allegory. C.S. Lewis, himself, specifically said so, for one thing. Of course, he is only the author, so what does he know? But even the most cursory reading of the books slaps you in the face with the fact.

Of course, it can still be enjoyed on other levels, so have fun. I intend to see it when my son and his wife visit us at Christmas.

that's exactly why I WILL NOT be taking my kid to see the movie. I'm sick to death of all the faux christianity that being thrown in everyones face these days by people who have not a drop of real christian morality or ethics in them. UGH. :puke:

No one can force you to see anything you don't want to, and no one can stop someone from producing or saying anything at all, no matter how it might offend someone else.

That's what freedom is all about.

and that ain't freedom.

Ain't that right? :hi:

as long as they don't use force. They're entitled to as much exposure as they can get or pay for. And that's a good thing, don't you think? The more people get to see them as they really are....??

you can't avoid the allegory, it's as subtle as a chainsaw.

It's just a movie, for pete's sake. I'm tired of everything having to be turned into something else. There is an obvious Christian allegory in the books, but it's ridiculous to insist that this be some sort of movie 'for them and them only.' There are plenty of people who hail from other religions, or are not religious, and to co-opt it as some kind of litmus test is an insult to the idea of simply enjoying a film as a story. People are allowed to not believe in something if they want.

I quit reading it not far into it. I found it rather disturbing for some reason - though I don't recall what that reason was now.

Tolkien pretty much said Lewis "borrowed" nearly every theme (talking beavers, etc.) in the darn book from other authors. (I heard this on NPR and can't find a print source after a quick search - maybe someone else has this?)

they were very close friends, and were part of "The Inkings," a group who met and discussed their writing projects. Tolkien NEVER claimed "Jack" plagiarized anything from him, not at all.

from other authors........

hell, not much is new, even Christian mythology. Virgin birth, Sons of God, resurrection, miracles etc... are nothing new. They symbols have existed in pre-christian myths for thousands of years. Christian mythology is nothing more than the Pagan God-man mythology fused with the messiah myth of the Jews.

This, however, does not mean that Christianity is false, but it means it is not original or literal. If it can be seen truly for the wonderful metaphor of human spirit and power, then, to me, it supercedes any of the literal nonsense you hear from people who do not have the capacity for abstraction and higher levels of thinking.

Great summary! Too bad you'd lose the fundies right after: "hell, not much is new..." They aren't built for complicated head-work.

The way I look at it is Christianity, barring some upstart competing New Age systems, is the Microsoft of the religion set -- they've taken everyone else's ideas and applications, stuck their logo on it and tried to dominate the world with a single intrusive operating system. Christianity is a survey religion based on the pattern of the seasonal hanged god mythologies of earlier agricultural societies. This, as you said, was grafted onto a bastardized version of the Jewish mystical concept of a messianic advent. Arguably, one could even frame Christianity as a paganized form of Judaism. The church called itself Catholic because the faith was engineered to universally subsume all previous and contemporary contenders. They're still trying.

Just like Microsoft.

:-)

Great analogy to microsoft.

can have talking animals? Kind of shuts the door on talking animals from here on out.

I always thought they set the bar for what annoying was. I'm not going to let the fact that they like something prevent me from enjoying it. I'm sure some of them like pizza. I'm a fan of that as well.

Any-hoooo, I still want to go see it.

and it seems the fundies are in unholy alliance with this.

Their hypocrisy on this smells like a dirty diaper.

:puke:

I intend to see the movie and enjoy it as fantasy, just like the Harry Potter and LOTR flicks.
But if a proselytizer comes around and pushes a pamphlet in my face, I'll tell them to take it back or I'll make them eat it.

:grr:

If every who say "The Passion" sees your money you make big bucks. Why go head to head with Fantasy like Potter or ACTION like Kong (some ape-> man evolution in there??? there ARE dinosaurs in Kong) when you can just focus on one segment and get Fox News to do it for you.

I didn't know that this was supposed to be a Christian anology-I always saw it as a Alice in Wonderland knock off-but at this point don't be surprised to hear the RW radio nuts to equate the "White Witch" with Hillary.

Now I'm less interested in seeing it. That kind of spoiled it.

It's a great book, and the movie does the book justice. You can enjoy it on whatever level you want to. Lewis wasn't a Fundie, and would very much dislike people using his work as a Fundie tool. However, I hope all the Fundies read it, AND read all of his work -- it might change them into Righteous Christians.

A Nostradamus type message warning of the BATTLE for HUMANITY with the "White Witch" (read:Hillary)


When you hear the SECOND time remember where you heard it first.

is they know the movie will do well.

I was drooling over this movie when I first saw the first teaser, back in the summer...

So, when they see that it does well in the box office, they will say that it is proof that "Americans embrace Christian ideas" and also it will somehow prove that they are right.

Hell, I've even seen Cavuto on Faux News try to argue that the success of the movie Spiderman was due to its conservative values.


LOL... Spiderman, conservative? I think not.

If he were, he wouldn't be Spiderman. He'd be Peter Parker, the bank-robbing murderer who can climb walls like a spider.

I thought it was just that Aslan the Lion can represent Christ in some way. Didn't CS Lewis himself say that the symbolism wasn't the point of the story?

Just remind yourself that the Christian fundies of today have more in common with the witch than they do with the lion. The funny/sad part is that they don't even realize it.

That is all that this is about. Free publicity.

Narnia will probably WIN the box office WAR this week and there will be much ballyhoo about how this Christian story (?) BEAT Potter and Kong.

I saw it yesterday.

And, here's the thing...

I never saw the "obvious parallels" when I was a kid, and I still don't see them now.

Yeah, the lion gets ressurected... And?

Doesn't Gandalf also "die" in LotR?

The way I see it is, you can make anything about God and Jesus if you try hard enough.

Anyone who really sees the parallels ends up seeing them because they want them to be there. If you spend enough time looking hard for symbolism, you will find it. And you can use just about anything to prove just about any point, if you are creative enough.

Please don't let the fundies ruin these wonderful books for you, and please don't make them cause you to miss out on this movie.

> I never saw the "obvious parallels" when I was a kid, and I still don't see them now.
>
> Yeah, the lion gets ressurected... And?

If you have any doubts, *READ* the rest of the series. Your doubts will
be swept away like the scales from your eyes. Hint/Spoiler: At the end,
the kids get to follow Aslan to Heaven after they're killed in a train
crash.

Tesha

But, I have always figured that anything (especially Sci-Fi / Fantasy) could be used as a metaphor for religion.

Just replace magic with God...

So what if they are Christian allegory? Many books in Western literature are -- heck, even Tolkien's devout Catholicism colored his works. Reading it, enjoying it, doesn't turn you into a robotic Fundie. Lewis wasn't a Fundamentalist, his work is explicitly NOT Fundamentalist.

And,m there is nothing offensive about "The Last Battle." Yes, the Pevensies do go to Aslan's country, as do many other humans and animals. There's an "Aslan's Country" in just about every religion, except for atheism. And, if you're atheist, you won't care, anyway.

These are great books, and very moral books, not just Christian morality. They're like Harry Potter: Good vs. Evil, and sometimes it's hard to do the right thing. Aravis, in "A Horse and His Boy," is one of the strongest heroes (heroine!) in the series,a nd she is most definitely a follower of Tash. Aslan makes that point in "TLB": no matter what god you worship, those who do good, do it in Aslan's name, and those who do evil, do it in Tash's name. Very ecumenical message. There is nothing wrong with a morality tale, and Christians don't have the market on being moral and kind and good.

That's less a Christian thing than just a general endorsement of being a moral and good person, which is pantheistic.

> And,m there is nothing offensive about "The Last Battle."

I never used the word "offensive". I simply said that these stories are
*UNAMBIGUOUSLY* Christian alegories. One might argue the politics of
aupporting such a venture, especially when bankrolled by a fundie, but
please don't put words in my mouth.

Tesha

By the way, if we want to discuss "offensive", we might want to
ponder exactly what was on Clive Staple's mind when he wrote
"A Boy and his Horse". That book seems to be, umm, err,
"problematic" to any reader who isn't racist.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051201/LIVING/512010303/1007

Tesha

I said that in one of the C.S. Lewis threads. And, I say "Of course," because the Brits at that time weren't exactly open-minded about people from the Middle East, aka "wogs." That is an extremely unfortunate part of this book, especially since the rest of it has a wonderful message.

That book isn't too kind on Allah, either, pretty much Tashing him
the whole way through.

Tesha

And, even though Lewis meant the Chronicles to be Christian allegory, readers absolutely don't have to accept it as that -- you can enjoy the books (and movie) on so many different levels.

I wish some Fundies WOULD read Lewis, especially his non-fiction books on Christianity. Might shake 'em up a bit!

They are gonna try and make this into The Passion: Part Two.

They will claim that the film making tons of money is because the nation agrees with the fundies.

Don't let them ruin it for you! These maniacs will take anything and attempt to twist and pervert it.

http://www.alternet.org/movies/25610/?comments=view&cID=38901&pID=38634

The Penguin Wars

By Sheerly Avni, AlterNet. Posted September 17, 2005.


From multiple mates to gay tolerance to untraditional marriage roles, these birds are not at all the role models the Christian Right would make them out to be. We live in a world where Bill O'Reilly can use footage of the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina as a lesson to the nation's schoolchildren: "If you don't get educated, if you don't develop a skill, and force yourself to work hard, you'll most likely be poor."

So, it should come as no surprise that members of the religious right have found a way to co-opt the hit documentary, March of the Penguins, claiming it as an argument for, among other things, intelligent design and family values. The New York Times reported earlier this week that Christian groups are jumping to claim the movie's "message" as their own. Michael Medved even went so far as to call it an endorsement of "traditional norms like monogamy, sacrifice and child-rearing."

Monogamy? As Scott Lamb pointed out in Salon, these penguins get around. They switch mates with each new mating season, which makes for some pretty slutty birds -- and change the operative question from "What Would Jesus Do?" to "Who would Jesus Do?" (And an earlier Salon article, which tells the incredible true story of two male penguins in love, adds another twist.)

This is the most cynical misappropriation of someone else's messages since the Republicans started pumping their fists in the air to Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA." (Or, for that matter, since Reagan decided to name his space program Star Wars, a move George Lucas resents to this day.) In all, conservatives' embrace of March of the Penguins is pretty ironic, coming from a nexus of religious groups that justify backburnering environmental issues because with the Rapture at hand, we don't need to worry about the next generation's planet anyway.

..more..

"Greediest executive in America" teams up with Walt Disney Pictures for film about Christ's "resurrection"

On December 9, "The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe," a $200 million dollar film adapted from C.S. Lewis' children's book of the same title, will open on several thousand screens across the country. If it performs well at the box office, Disney and conservative billionaire Philip Anschutz -- whose company co-produced the movie -- could have a "Lord of the Rings"/"Harry Potter"-type franchise on its hands, as six other Narnia-related titles are waiting in the wings.

"The Chronicles" -- which many have called the most eagerly anticipated film of the holiday season -- is a joint production of Walt Disney Pictures and Anchutz's Walden Media, his "family friendly" entertainment company.

For Disney, it is all about the money; Anschutz, however, has other things on his mind. The release of "The Chronicles of Narnia" will likely usher in another skirmish in America's ongoing culture wars; fought out at cineplexes around the country as well as on the 24/7 cable news networks. As long as it does not get out of hand, it surely will advance Anschutz's conservative Christian agenda.


http://www.mediatransparency.com/story.php?storyID=97

They repeatedly ran significant segments of the trailer, and packaged some "reporting" around it briefly. I figured that Disney, or someone stuffed a bunch of money in CNN's pockets to keep running that "story".

I also wondered how much money they were funneling to the mega-fundy-church "reverend" to promote the movie to his sheep. The guy was better set up to cash out selling Narnia products than the Disney stores.

Is that come summertime we will once again get pelted with the Hollywood is out of touch with middle American values crap. This stuff comes in cycles. The Fundies takes are as stale as WWE and any daytime Soap.

and it spoiled the damn movie for me. :(

If their proselytizing of the movie gets people to read the books, they're in for a surprise. C. S. Lewis is no fundamentalist - he's an old-school conservative.

whackjobs read some of Lewis' non-fiction books.

why can't something just be a fun movie or book to read? I saw that movie and I liked it and I don't care what symbolism there was or anything.

My 14 year-old niece - whose parents are not even that religious is into the Christian rap music and she's sent out a few chain e-mails saying "if you believe in God - forward this." My brother is a little bit freaked out by this.

To add to this - she lives in an affluent area that is NOT very religious and the school she goes to is non-secular and does NOT discuss religion at all. I don't know where she gets all this from.

It's the assault on the radio - I guess and TV/Movies. I just hope she doesn't turn into some religious freak.

It is very close to Lewis' book, and Lewis' philosophies were not Evangelical, Fundamentalist, etc. Like the books, the movie has a good message.

The only review I've read so far was pretty favorable & mentioned the Christian symbolism was not more obvious than in the book.

C S Lewis would not be pleased by the Fundamentalist gang. They are even trying to ruin the holidays, but I'll still celebrate!

judging "TLTW&TW" in this way is as blind as damning "Guernica" because Picasso had Communist sympathies. Art stands or falls on its own.

C. S. Lewis was a very committed Christian. If people want to see spiritual symbolism in the movie, that is fine with me. Most art (and movies) are designed to let people interpret their own message from it. So be it.

I'm always up for a $200 million epic fantasy. Luckily I haven't heard any of the fundie talk. Doesn't matter much anymore anyway, Narnia only did $67 million it's first weekend, and it's about to be crushed by Kong, if they are lucky it'll limp to $175 or $200 million and they can recoup the marketing budget in DVD sales...