Do you have Jewish friends who are RWers or watch FOX? What do THEY

think about all this "war on Xmas" rhetoric being whipped up? Does it make 'em feel comfortable about their ideology and votes?

I know a few Jewish RWers in my area who are FOX or Bush fans or both. Haven't had a chance to ask them yet about what they think about this.

are conservative or support Bush. They loathe Bush. And they're all way too smart to watch Faux. I can't even imagine anyone of them being able to stomach a buffoon like O'Reilly.

and I am Jewish and belong to a synagogue - there were MANY Kerry stickers

think about this the same way the rest of us do........
as baloney.

RW foreign policy ( they're fer it!) and Christian right-style RW domestic policy ( they're agin it!)

Foreign policy trumps all... at least for now. And I do believe it is purely a marriage of convenience.

They regard the Xmas stuff as an annoyance that they must endure from their political allies.

- it was WW2, Dad was in the service, Mom was working.

I am a Schechter parent and a former Schechter Board Member and a former BB Lodge President.

I think the RW foreign policy sucks. I think the RW fundie domestic policy is barely to the left of Bogdan Chmelnitski and his Cossacks --- and I regard the ban on Federal Funding of stem cell research as an unconstitutional and theocratic "establishment of religion" and "denial of the free exercise of religion" (see , ) and I think this Intelligent Design crap is driving us into a Third World Country -- and I thinkl this "War On Christmas" is typical RW, Fundamentalist Judeophobia - what's next with O'Leily - the Protocols, Killing Christian Babies for their Blood for Pesach Matzohs, Poisoning Wells, Kidnapping Jewish Kids for Forced Conversions (see , and ).

Don't forget - of all "white" ethnic groups - support for Kerry (2004) and Gore (2000) was highest among Jews.

about "RW Jews" . By definition, this does not include you. Or the 70% of Jews who voted for Kerry, Gore, etc.

Sorry, but that's what it's about. They just won't say it outloud. Mostly, they want the TV to anesthetize them to the realities around them, and then hear about some bad things happening occasionally more often to muslims than jews.

It's like a football game: As long as "our side" gets more free shots and their side takes more losses, and I don't have to be reminded that I've become a bigot.

I work with 2 of them, and they're all fear and hatred. More than anything, they hate self responsibility, and want someone to blame.

I know would be hard to pigeonhole in exactly this way. Most profess a desire... which I can't dismiss copmpletely as disingenuous... for a lasting peace in the ME.

Yes, they want Israel to dominate the terms of any agreeement. This much is incontestable.

and they are not stupid enough to appreciate FOX News

I know a sabra...a native-born Israeli...now a U.S. citizen who lives and dies Faux Noise, Michael Savage and all things wingnut. His reason is these people are the "true supporters of Israel". Fortunately he's the black sheep in the family and most of us enjoy winding him up and listening to him rant. When I confronted him recently that by listening to Salem radio stations, he was listening to a company owned by fundies who use Jews for their conveluted "Armageddon" theories...he just looked and said "well, if they believe in the security of Israel, that's a trade I'm willing to make." Fool!

CJ Watts and Ward Connerly and Armstrong Williams representative of African Americans? I ask hypothetically.

Call it the byproducts of past efforts/success...there's a growing...albeit small...number of middle and upper middle class blacks who have accepted the right wing agendas. Now, is it part of being accepted? Possibly. Or, is it the old conservative lure that people with money want to be represented by people with money...once they reached a certain income level, their concerns about social issues are superceded by their financial ones. Possibly.

I don't see the connection with Jews who support right wing causes. While there's the social side of things...it's not tied to economics like blacks or hispanics. Much of it comes from the desire to belong...the strong, and dare I say xenophobic view of the world Jews are taught from day one. Some feel they need to find ways to fit into the majority society and to find any threads that they can legitimize it...even if it means supporting issues that in the long-run work counter to your own best interest...the need to feel included is very strong. The question could be said as to why there were Jews who supported the Nazis in their early days...and there were. Or, the Jews who ignored the Nazi threat after 1933...attempted to remain in Germany under the false allusion/security that if they "played by the rules of the majority" they'd be just fine. They found out differently when the crystal began shattering. I'm sure hoping that doesn't happen here...but as others have noted...many of the same ingredients are very much active and at work.

and many that are not.

Just like my friends of any background they vary politics by economic backgrounds (I don't know any right wingers who aren't wealthy...... I'm from a blue state, so religious motivations aren't what pushes a person red).


I know Jewish, Christian and non-believers who are right wing.... but they vote for their taxes (selfish assholes come in every variety)

Kerry and most didn't support the war in Iraq?

America who are RWers, some even rabid ones? Some are even prominent figures in shrubco!

The point of my question is that, for those (minority of) Jews who have decided to drink of the shrubco/FOX KoolAid, does it make them question their choices, feel a little uncomfortable when they see their "side" of the political aisle thumping the pro-Christian bigotry tub?

It's kind of funny because the tone of some of the posts I see on this thread seems to be, "what, didn't you know that all Jewish people are liberal Democrats?" Errr.. I think not.

My parents in law are Jewish and conservative. So are several friends that I have met through them that also happen to be on varying levels conservative to liberal. While I haven't spoken to all of them on the issue recently in the past they have expressed respect for the Christmas holiday, and since they grew up with it when the country was decidedly more Christian centric they all seemed to enjoy the season and the pagentry of it. They all seemed to echo the understanding that when in Rome do as the Romans do. So, based on those past coversations I would have to guess that the recent Christmas campaign doesn't really bother them or make them question their choices. The parents in law feel the attempt to secularize everything as silly.

I don't exactly know why though. He's a very bright guy and is one of my very good friends, and he is a Bush supporter. However, he is not vocal at all about his political stance, and I happen to know he does not care for politics much (he's really good at math and the sciences). It may just be that we live in central PA and the area has rubbed off on him, b/c he is not very adament about being a Republican. But he clearly is conservative. Also I don't think, although he does practice and is very knowledgeable about his religion, that he follows the international happenings concerning Israeli-Palestinian relations at all. He knows when something big happens, but any bombings that happen on an almost weekly basis I'm sure he does not pay much attention to. Kind of odd, but he's the only guy I know real personally who is Jewish and a Bush supporter. I don't think he watches the news much either, so he probably doesn't watch Faux News.

a rabid right-winger and Bush supporter . . . my last appointment, in fact, evolved into a half hour discussion of the war an 9/11 . . . when he asked me if I thought the invasion of Afghanistan was justified, I answered "Well, that all depends on what you think happened on 9/11" . . . "Ah, a conspiracy theorist!" says he, and off I went on a dissection of 9/11 and an explanation of the PNAC, which he had never heard of . . . I know I didn't change his mind, but I sure as hell gave him a lot to think about . . .

My Jewish next-door neighbor, with whom I've shared many a good political joke, didn't seem to know what I was talking about when I made a sarcastic joke that there was a "war on Christmas". I think he may not be watching Fox News! I know he generally does watch some cable news.

He'll pick up on it, though. Next time I know he'll laugh when I mention it.

I've never in my life met a Jew who didn't have at least enough intelligence to see through a pathetic, facile, stupid idea like this "war on Christmas" bullshit. And I've known--known well--plenty of Jews, ever since I was old enough to go outside and play.

could, it's more an issue of Jewish people who have bought into supporting the shrub and watching FOX (there's more than a few where I live including my neighbor) feel when they see their "side" beating a drum that might contribute to fomenting hate against them...

But many of these people can see the "value" of keeping the ignorami on the side of the Party by stirring up this "war on Christmas" nonsense.
I mean, they can understand that it is a political ploy.

I've discerned political ploys done by a political group I supported, at times. Usually I would think to myself, "well, good for us, might as well play dirty like the other side does." But I admit that I would also be ever so slightly troubled that "we"--the good guys--would have to stoop to such a thing.

I don't watch Faux, and I am not RW, but I do know, well, I feel that neither party really cares for us. The Dems are better than the Reps. The right-wing only cares about Israel. Well, they really don't give a shit about Israel, only that Jews "control" Jerusalem (for their Apocalyptic fantasies). The "left" only wants us for our money and love of equal rights.

70% of Jews voted for Kerry, yet we are all "more loyal to Israel" than the US (or whatever country we belong to). Truth be known, as a fag, I have more rights in Israel, than I do in the US. Yet, here I am! Still fighting!

Oh, so you know, my 'kike' brother (the one closest to my age, I have 3 brothers), voted for Shrub. I don't know why since he is an air traffic controller and got ROYALLY screwed by Regan, got a reach-around from Bush Sr. and are facing MORE cutbacks from the Royal Asswipe! But...for Chaunkkah, he is getting a calendar of "Bushisms (the one where he says stupid shit)." I love my brother, but nothing is better than guilt...it is a Jewish thing....the Catholics stole! :)

Many of my neighbors are ultra-orthodox "black hats". They barely nod at me and my family as we pass in the hallway for some reason that they never took the time to explain to me. Black hats are definitely prone to *sh platforms on abortion, gay rights, private school funding. Some have W stickers on their cars and are likudniks at heart. I doubt they care much about the Xmas/Christmas agenda but they like the whole package.

The humorous twist here is that I am Jewish too maybe halfway between them and secular agnostic. I used to wish them a "yom tov" but it would seem to anger them that a WASP-y looking guy who is known to shoot the occasional hoops on Saturday afternoon had anything in common with them.

You posted

Please read .I know the title is "Stem Cell Research..." but there is a backgrounder on abortion in Jewish Law.

Eisenberg is Chair of Bioethics at Thomas Jefferson Medical School in Philadelphia PA, a distinguished radiation oncologist, and some would consider him what you call a "Black Hat." He officiates at a decidedly "Shomer Shabbat" temple.

Your statement

Black hats are definitely prone to *sh platforms on abortion, gay rights, private school funding

may be a little overbroad.

homosexuality as "abomination" and advocated "death" for homosexual citizens.

Please feel free to update me if my info is old.

While the great thing about Judaism is the ongoing dialogue of debate, for example, some sectarians believe one need only wait 2 hrs between eating milk and meat, while others say to wait 6 hrs, it is by consistent practice that one practices halacha. However, I do know that Rabbi Schneerson and the general mindset of Chabad, the active college wing of ultra-orthodoxy in America take very negative views of abortion. However, unlike the X-ian right, they tend not to be lobbyists for the rest of us.

There is always a minority view even on the endpoint in Judaism,though I think if you look at Eisenberg closer, who care if he shuts down work on Friday night, you will see that he is opposed to if not fully wishing to outlaw abortion. There is a lot of murkiness in Jewish law because it is based on one's personal relationship w/ G-d, rather than governmental enforcement.But no I am not exaggerating. RW ideology fits better with their own.

Edited on Saturday to remove a spelling error.

O'Reilly had Jackie Mason on one night to discuss the whole christmas thing.

Why assume (apparently) that there aren't any Jews at DU?

DUers are not right wing Boosh lovin' Jews? That is the demographic the OP was trying to get a bead on... remember?

eom

The fundies think they are saving Israel for their own religious reasons. All we care about is that they are saving Israel, so the "joke" is on them. We MUST save Israel because "we all know" it will be the ONLY safe place for Jews when we are blamed again for the problems of this world and targeted with extermination. This time, we will have a place to call our own that we can fight back from; all of this in the context of "never again".

Submitted as one explanation, not an endorsement.

A gut feeling that when our liberal, progressive friends let us down AGAIN (see ) and AGAIN forget all about the International Humanitarian Law doctrine of "ASYLUM" - the "Law of Return" will be there - the last port in the storm.

a member of the French Resistance and who found asylum in the French Canadian Jewish community.

the ones making an uproar about the Happy Holidays thing? It's the RW'ers.

Actually, Hanukkah is a minor holiday that just happens (usually, unless it comes early, like around Thanksgiving as it has in years past) to fall around the same time as Christmas. Coincidentally, the first night of Hanukkah falls on Dec. 25 this year.

Btw, I'd love to see the expression on the RW brother's face of the poster who wrote he was going to give him a Bushisms calendar. Great idea!

I once dated an Orthodox Jew (his father was a rabbi) from Baltimore when I was a teenager. In their eyes, I wasn't "Jewish" enough. My parents kept a kosher home, went to an Orthodox synagogue, but we weren't as "frum" (strict) as they. Didn't work out for this reason.

Loves the war as a way to "wipe out the bastards." Is an economics major.

He views the War on Xmas as irrelevant to him, since he doesn't celebrate and doesn't care. Fox News is right to say what they are saying as the 1st amendment allows them to and to try to make them stop is un-American. Oh, he's a member of AIPAC too, as are many members of my Fraternity (but my brothers are all liberals). He wears a Yammakah, announcing to the world his Judaism.

I'm Jewish and he makes me sick.

ELSE can "get rid of the bastards".

Happy now, asshole?

In answer to your question: Only Jewish folks I know who support Bush are my wife's folks, actually. And it's extremely upsetting-- but they're very good at filtering out any information that they don't want to hear about.

and demographically speking, Jewish-Americans are dying their way out fo American political influence.

It's estimated that in 2006, the Jewish population of Israel will pass the Jewish population of the USA for the first time.

The reason for this demographic meltdown is low birthrates, an old population, and intermrriage. It's not just an American problem either. Jewish populations everywhere in the world except in Israel are in steep decline.

In America, the only Jewish communities which are holding their numbers at all are the Orthodox ones where intermariage is shunned.

Anyway, politically speaking, Jewish Americans now make up less than 2 % of the US population, and within a decade or so will be below 1 % so their importance as a minority group for politicians to woo will naturally decline too.

even more reason for politicians to kowtow to this kind of 'war on Christmas' bullshit.

Personally, as a secular humanist/taoist/discordian of partial Jewish heritage, anything that makes the USA more homogenized into what can be argued as solely a 'Christian' nation--- is a BAD thing.