DLC supports Lieberman Iraq War statement on their website

I agree with part of what From said: there should be room for debate and differing opinions provided that opinion is based on facts. I don't know if Jack Murtha's proposal is the best way to get out, but he at least acknowledges reality and cited facts most in Congress and White House run away from like spiders.

Lieberman's statement did not qualify since it was not based on facts but pollyanna talking points.

I would respect any call to stay there that acknowledges some crucial facts:

• 80% or more of Iraqis want us to leave.
  
  
• The world's oil supply has either peaked or is about to, and as it declines, the Middle East will be the last region sucked dry. Those who supported the war thought controlling that oil was important for continued US access and our national security as Colin Powell's chief of staff Col. Wilkerson recently said.
  
  Neocons have gone further and said that being in control of the oil spigot gives us an effective veto over the growth of other countries including potential rivals like China.
  
  Oil companies probably wanted Iraq's oil for crasser reasons: stocks are low elsewhere so they need the product, and Iraq's oil will grow exponentially in value as other countries oil reserves dry up. Recent price gouging by oil companies shows how much they care about the rest of us.
  
  
• Even Iyad Allawi, the thug who used to be an enforcer for Saddam that Bush appointed prime minister of the provisional government recently said the human rights situation in Iraq is at least as bad now as it was under Saddam.
  
  
• At the recent Cairo Conference on Iraq, the Iraqi participants from all factions agreed that while insurgent attacks on civilians were wrong, those on occupation forces are not.
  
  
• We restructured the oil industry in Iraq to make it easier for the oil companies to screw Iraqis out of the income from their oil, and easier for Kurdish and Shi'ite provinces to screw Sunnis out of any oil income. Do you think that might piss people off enough to grab a gun?
  
  
• Israelis and Saudis separately studied our interrogations of foreign fighters captured in Iraq and found that most had no prior connection to al Qaeda and were motivated by our invasion, not religious fundamentalism.
  
  
  
• The Iraqis are not apes who just descended from the trees, and can't figure out how to put a military and police force together. Bush fired all the qualified people as soon as we invaded. And the current problem is getting troops and cops to fire on their own people who they know may have a legitimate beef with us being there. Which sounds a hell of a lot like Vietnam. Wasn't that the big plan there? Train the Vietnamese to fight for us in our absence? Altough it was never put that bluntly, that's the real problem. When the perception and reality are we are there to screw them out of their natural resources and kill those who protest too much with either airstrikes or death squads, it's going to be tough to find people to consistently fight for us. Those who do are unlikely to be choir boys, and likely inspire even less love for the puppet government.
  

By supporting Lieberman's dishonest statement, the DLC shows themselves as wanting to do the real debate and business of government behind closed doors and leave us out.

I see a general support of Lieberman, but not the statement. :shrug:

What's funny is I don't really care either way about the DLC. BUT, What I really can't stand even more is the fact that people are using the DLC thing as an excuse to fire @ other DEMs and each other here @ DU.

I thought DU was a pro DEMOCRATIC thing. I see more DEM hating here than @ FR.

Party loyalty, and Party discipline, are essential to success in political endeavors. The organized beat the agglomorated nineteen times out of twenty.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

That seems to be the DLC position: not that the war was wrong but done poorly.

There is something to the done poorly part, but if the goal was the same, giving Iraq's oil to our companies, there would have been resistance no matter what.

Do you think it was right to invade and remake Iraq's oil industry at the barrel of a gun?

Do you always assume people who disagree with on some point do so on all points?

What is important in the situation is that the invasion has been, and is continuing as, a colossal failure, for which the current regime of Republicans bears the total responsibility. Such a line can garner support from those who believe it a criminal enterprise as well as thiose who think it a case of poor execution towards a goal they cpould support, and encourages all to blame the regime currently in power for the fiasco.

"Political action is the art of making people think your thoughts, and think them their own as they do. In electoral politics, the side whose line makes the most people say 'That's just what I think!' wins."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

instead of posting misleading threads like this one.


As others have pointed out, this statement is not in support of Lieberman's position, it's in defense of his right to have an opinion - and especially one that differs from most Democrats.

you are parsing and you know it.

Why can't you guys be honest about who you represent? You are the business party without religious nuts. You should just call yourself that because calling yourselves Democrats at all probably scares off potential corporate donors and confuses some Democrats (not many) into thinking you will represent them if elected.

and I'm not "you guys". I am not a member of the DLC. I am just sick and fucking tired of the constant stream of trash posted on this board by you, Yurbud, trash that's meant to divide the Democratic coalition, the only hope we (people who live out here in the real world), have of getting this pack of lying, thieving, theo-fascists out of office.

and trash those who disagree.

Who is dividing the "coalition?"

Have you read anything on the Labor party in New Zealand?

It was co-opted and compromised by the business friendly to the point that it was promoting nearly identical policies as those of the right wing party. Progressives eventually had to leave and form a new party, that almost instantly drew half the votes from the old labor party.

I don't want that to happen here. The Democrats should be the progressive party that represents the people.

The DLC can go join the GOP.

Lieberman's statement failed that test miserably.

funny! you funny. Me like you..

to swing democrats even MORE to the right. that way everybody can have a happy fascist state.

edit...can't spell too well this am!

they don't put forward my view. Republicans in Democratic clothing.

A pox on their house.

Not according to Murtha, an experienced military man.

What's From's military experience?

if wanting to be Sec. of Defense, then - I'd say his extreme neocon views have everything to do with his "personal interests".


He is a man who always puts his county above his party or his personal interests. Those are qualities we should cherish, not disdain, in today's far too polarized politics.

Most DLC statements can be understood if you put "corporate interests" every place they say "voters," "moderates," the "national interests," "national security," or even "my country."

Their worth is shit nowadays. They have almost no constituency except business interests who finance the organization.

Liberal wrapper, corporate core.

article

I know what you mean now.

The DLC is giving Lieberman political cover. The DLC is controlled by Bill Clinton. Clinton and Lieberman are the best of friends. It's a longstanding relationship made public during the Clinton impeachment.

Lieberman covers Hillary's flank. The DLC will cover Lieberman. This is the way Washington works.

The fight for the control of the Democratic 2008 process is on. Choose your side. If you back the war in Iraq, stand with Hillary and Lieberman (DLC'ers). If you oppose the war in Iraq, go to the opposite side of the political street. You might see Howard Dean, Al Gore and perhaps Russ Feingold there.

"Unity" means to the DLC exactly what "bipartisanship" means to the Bushies:

"Shut up and do it MY way." (or more precisely "my donors way")

I'm talking about Wes Clark and his view is in line with, maybe a little to the right of, the DLC.

that those here at DemocraticUnderground who object most to the DLC-bashing -- because we should be a big tent party and all get along and not criticize fellow Dems and all that -- never seem to have a problem with the Dem-bashing the DLC does?

Verrrrrry interesting.

maintain that we should continue a war that we launched illegally based on lies. We should stay the course and continue to blow up innocent Iraqis on a daily basis even though we know without a doubt now that it is wrong...and the DLC admires this resolve in Joe!

They admire his resolve to continue carrying out our war crime.

And it is not useful to propogate such Anti-American lies.

Like the one when a whole family is killed but one four year old girl?

Or the kid who got his arms burned off in an airstrike in the initial invasion?

You are either being dishonest with yourself or with us.

I don't blame the troops for this stuff, I blame the civilian leadership in the executive branch who order it, and the legislature who allow it.

You can't fix a problem when you lie about what it is. Or do you believe that all the people we are fighting over there are al Qaeda taking orders from Zarqawi?

invasion and occupation is our fault. So any damn time a suicide bomber takes out 30 police or a wedding party it is our fault not to acknowledge this is going to insure that we are there far more longer. Not acknowledging that is going to insure more terrorist attacks against US interests and their allies. Not acknowledging that means more innocent Iraqis die. Not to acknowledge that could be considered not only anti American but also anti Democratic and is very definitely anti Humane.

If you'd like you should do some research at ICCC and google and see how many innocents have been fragged by our military and remember to research in depth what we let the contractors get away with.

Because if not then you really need to remove the blinders.

Kick

DLC is bringing in one of their freaks, Tammy Duckworth to contest the March 2006 primary for Henry Hyde's vacated seat. Hyde was FORCE TO RESIGN because he nearly lost to Cegelis in 04. Instead of running her in an open district, DLC, AGAIN, is trying to KILL OFF another LIBERAL CANDIDATE! They brought this Duckworth person in 5 days before the cutoff and will no doubt try to avoid debate in an attempt to steal this seat from the Liberal who ran last year.

First of all please support anti-war, Prochoice candidates.. give generously.

Here is Cegelis' site:

http://www.cegelisforcongress.org/

Secondly, We NEED TO HAVE RADIO AND TV DEBATES BETWEEN the DLC, Corporatist, Prolife, ProWar, Libermann DUCKWORTH and the DNC, Dean dozen, FDR Democrat CHRISTINE CEGELIS. This will get national press! This is the first TEST OF THE POWER OF THE DLC!

Please take a moment to request a debate before the March 06 primary! Thank you.

request, nicely a debate.. Live between Duckworth and Cegelis!


Especially WTTW.. Also NPR..

aura@Airamericaradio.com, Josh@AirAmericaradio.com, vern@edschultzshow.com, ed@edschultzshow.com, JohnWilliams@wgnradio.com , Letters@OdysseyRadio.org, news@ChicagoPublicRadio.org,


http://www.wttw.com /...

http://www.npr.org/contact/

click on contact us.. thank you so much For WTTW the show is Chicago Tonight. For NPR.. 'Talk of the Nation' 'All Things Considered' are my thoughts..


Also request it of Rahm-recruited DLC candidate, no doubt she is totally going to stonewall....

Duckworth606@yahoo.com


Thank you very much!

I need to check that out..Blessings brother..

me thinks I'm done. Dean kicks ass, Liberman and and all the DINO's suck ass.
Now there's a difference *with* a distinction.