SAN DIEGO "Family Upset Over Marine's Body Arriving As Freight"

Family Upset Over Marine's Body Arriving As Freight
Marine Bodies Sent To Families On Commercial Airliners

SAN DIEGO -- There's controversy over how the military is transporting the bodies of service members killed overseas, 10News reported.

A local family said fallen soldiers and Marines deserve better and that one would think our war heroes are being transported with dignity, care and respect. It said one would think upon arrival in their hometowns they are greeted with honor. But unfortunately, the family said that is just not the case.

Dead heroes are supposed to come home with their coffins draped with the American flag -- greeted by a color guard.

But in reality, many are arriving as freight on commercial airliners -- stuffed in the belly of a plane with suitcases and other cargo.


John Holley and his wife, Stacey, were stunned when they found out the body of their only child, Matthew, who died in Iraq last month, would be arriving at Lindbergh Field as freight.

"When someone dies in combat, they need to give them due respect they deserve for (the) sacrifice they made," said John Holley

http://www.10news.com/news/5504608/detail.html

I guess with the cost of fuel and the fact that they are shipping so many dead bodies, they need to keep the cost down.
That way they can funnel more money to Halliburton.

Lord knows you can't afford to treat our fallen soldiers with respect (and keep them alive before the fact with body armor and adequate equipment) when you need those Pentagon $$$ for your next campaign!

I mean, REALLY - which is more important, American soldiers or Cunningham's luxury items?

WHERE are your priorities?

:sarcasm:

understand the lack of ethics and the war-profiteering going on in Iraq.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-colonel27nov27,0,6096413,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines

and dirty trick pay-offs require a lot of money. The Blackwater shooters are getting a lot of money. They have to have slush funds for the security of the their pipelines and transporters. They have to pay quadruple to Halliburton and KR and other suppliers. There are so many more important purposes for the money they launder, filter, and steal because they operate s secret sub-government, hidden from us and Congress. But, perhaps they will give more considerations to the soldiers when they get the next legitimate 100 billion from Congress next year.

Any more concern, and he might as well just herd them off to the gas chambers.

I swear that guy gets off on hurting people.

These troop-loving neocons sure know how to show repect for vets, dont they?

It's like you took the pledge captain of some abusive dipshit fraternity and gave him unlimited power. Now, instead of making naked freshmen pluck grapes off of blocks of ice with their butt cheeks, he gets to make them go and die in Iraq. For *, the US military is a humoungous SUV with the DMB bumper stickers parked in back of the frat house -- he's just so sure the chicks will dig him and the other guys will think he's soooo cool.

by a color guard - and are then sent on to a local airport of the family, where I would not expect a color guard.

An honor gaurd that never leaves their side/presence until they are placed into the belly of a comercial flight--but that honor gaurd still flies with them and continues the vigil until they are received by their families.

while on commercial airliners. I'm one of the people who meets the military escorts and takes them to the back of the airplane. Usually several police officers at the airport meet the aircraft to salute and escort the body. A special cart is brought plane-side to carry the casket. The casket is carefully removed while the military escort salutes it. The escort then rides in the vehicle towing the cart to the connecting flight or place where it is moved to ground transport. Doesn't seem to be disrespectful to me.

Why in do people want us spending more money on dead bodies when we can't even afford to support the live ones in the countries we occupy? I don't get it.

transported home for burial. I understand that they are shipped as "freight" from one undertaker to another. That being said, the remains of soldiers killed in Iraq should be carried in one of *'s limos in a funeral procession on the highway with signs that say "killed for the NeoCon idiots" or something similar.

We've got to keep this story front and centre.

There were several threads here yesterday re the 'White Flag' ads the GOP is running, and what kind of ad would counter their latest Swiftboating of anti-war Democrats.

If THIS doesn't get it, it ain't in town. Here's a story that is bound to turn the stomach of all Americans, regardless of political affiliation.

I would hope the powers-that-be in the Democratic party would use THIS story in a TV spot -- then sit back and wait for the 'excuses' the Repubs come up with for treating our fallen soldiers like so much luggage. I don't think ANY American will buy the 'cost-cutting' excuse when it comes to this kind of atrocity.

Supporting Our Troops? Here's a story that demonstrates just how 'supportive' this Administration is.

Bodies are ALWAYS shipped as freight. Would you like to sit next to a casket on your airliner? Or would you like flights dedicated specifically for the caskets so even more fuel is wasted? What would make you happy?

I know that they use transport planes, but when you read the article, my friend, I do not think that the following happened.



And, although they use transport planes, I still think that it should rightfully be empty of all other things such as supplies. I mean how would it look if you went into a funeral home and the owners had the place looking unkempt with embalming equipment laying around.:shrug:

Every coffin is draped in the American flag. I don't see the need for this during transport. And WHY should nothing else be shipped with human remains? WHY? How is shipping bags and live humans on the same airplane disrespectful in ANY way?

Air Force is already stretched thin from what I understand. Yea, lets take people off the front line and screw the living soldiers they're serving.

I do. It is a common practice to a fallen soldier to do this sort of thing with the American flag!


I think that the GOP and Dubya should rent the belly of an airplane. And if the costs are bothering you, I think you should consider the real cost of sending them over there in the first place to look for WMDs that are not there!:wtf:

and it is too much wasted already. Your justification for increasing expenses is that we are already overspending. Doesn't make sense to me.

agree that too much has been wasted. Lets get a date from Dubya as to when they can return.

Hearing about our soldiers dying unnecessarily in Iraq is a waste!

:-)

Don't let Bush or the "patriots" at Fox (like Hannity) know. They'll be accusing the elder Holley's of not "supporting the troops".

They are so brazen that they don't even try to show respect to our military dead.

They were so arrogant that they didn't even try to secretly import some WMD "evidence" when it became all too clear there were no WMD's in Iraq.

They simply lie, deny and spin when faced with the truth.

They have no conscious, they have no remorse.

They will do whatever they want, consequences be damned.

Hauling dead soldiers around like freight? Imagine if this happened under Clinton.

But for these guys, it's business as usual. They disgust me.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

Our government is uncaring and is amazingly "good" at cutting costs that should not be cut..

Well, come on, all you big strong men
Uncle Sam needs your help again
Got himself in a terrible jam
Way down yonder in Vietnam
Put down your books and pick up a gun
We're gonna have a whole lotta fun!

And it's one, two, three
WHAT ARE WE FIGHTING FOR?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn!
Next stop is Vietnam
And it's five, six, seven
Open up the pearly gates
Well, there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee, we're all gonna die!

Now, come on Wall Street, don't be slow
Why, this war is a go-go
There's plenty good money to be made
Supplying the army with the tools of its trade
Just hope and pray when they drop the bomb
They drop it on Vietnam!

And it's one, two, three
WHAT ARE WE FIGHTING FOR?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn!
Next stop is Vietnam
And it's five, six, seven
Open up the pearly gates
Well, there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee, we're all gonna die!

Now, come on generals, let's move fast
Your big chance is here at last!
Gotta go out and get those reds
'Cause the only good commie is one that's dead
And you know that peace can only be won
When you fight 'till kingdom come!

And it's one, two, three
WHAT ARE WE FIGHTING FOR?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn!
Next stop is Vietnam
And it's five, six, seven
Open up the pearly gates
Well, there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee, we're all gonna die!

Now, come on mothers throughout the land
Pack your boys off to Vietnam!
Come on fathers, don't hesitate!
Send your sons off before it's too late
Be the first ones on your block to have
Your boy come home in a box!

And it's one, two, three
WHAT ARE WE FIGHTING FOR?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn!
Next stop is Vietnam
And it's five, six, seven
Open up the pearly gates
Well, there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee, WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!

It seems as relevant today as it did thirty eight years ago, doesn't it?
I'm sure that by tomorrow, I can come up with some lyrics for it that apply to today's mess, quagmire, debacle, etc., in Iraq.

It seems especially poignant to me than when I was hearing it growing up, because now I have a teenage son who may well be facing a draft by the time he gets out of high school. :mad:

The first President in history to cut military wages during a time of war....Scum Bush....selling off bases during a time of war. A base to a soldier is HOME to many......scum Bush.No pictures of caskets......scum Bush and they say that anti war protesters hurt morale......SCUM BUSH

The Vietnam soldiers were so hated, abused, and outcast from their societies that they are now legally classified as a discriminated against minority.

who came back on their own two feet. I'm talking about the soldiers who came back in a coffin. In the Vietnam "conflict", I remember the many heart-wrenching photos of flag drapped caskets; the 21 gun salutes at their funerals; the crying mothers and fathers and siblings and neighbors mourning their loss.

Basically, I remember everything, and the DEAD - let me emphasize that for you - the D-E-A-D were received in a more respectful manner during the Vietnam war, than they are today.

but that trooper received (after a very one sided conversation between a US Senator and a Marine Officer) a full military funereal. The photos, the gov'ment is now preventing people from the press from attending the funerals. Early in the war there was this story where they told a well known local reporter to stay out... it was his son they were burying but he was press. It was smoothed over and he was able to attend the funeral, but press are persona non grata, that is why when TIME ran some photos last week I went, bout bloody time!

Is the great respect these deceased military men and women receive. They have escorts at all times, special carts to transport the bodies, police escorts, and special treatment by the airline. Plus, passengers sometimes look out the windows to see the ceremony at the back of the airplane. The looks on their faces are ones of horror... it is the only way the Iraq war touches most of the people. Transporting the bodies on commercial airliners is certainly not a way of hiding the death.

(This is not a comment on the fallen soldiers, but on an administration that treats them as commodities and puts no value on their lives or deaths, as the case may be.)

The saddest part of this story is that these parents should not have had this ordeal in the first place. Lives are lost every day for no good reason throughout the world, but the deaths of our brave men and women in Iraq is completely inexcusable. The arrogance and ineptitude of the neocons, embodied by the unelected Bush administration, has to be stopped before this nation can regain it's place as a moral presence in the world community.

My heart goes out to all who have lost loved ones. It would be so difficult to be in their shoes. i just wish Bush had the capacity to reflect on how many lives he has ruined and how many parents, wives, husbands, and other loved ones who are without their heroes this Christmas.

Let's bring them home and take care of business here before we go off "helping" the rest of the world.

SUBJECT - RETURN OF DECEASED US SERVICE MEN FROM IRAQ

To Whom it may concern,

I work for a civilian air cargo carrier that provides civilian lift capability for the Air Mobility Command. As such we operate many flights to and from Kuwait to Ramstein Germany and the United States.

There is a situation that is greatly disturbing to me regarding these flights. On occasion we carry Human Remains (HR) on board our aircraft from Ramstein to Dover AFB. I know that this is happening because we have a requirement to notify Dover three hours prior to arrival to advise when we have HR onboard the aircraft. While I am quite proud to work for a carrier that provides direct support to our troops I also find it quite disgraceful that we as a country provide the transport of the remains of our sons and daughters that lost their lives onboard a general cargo civilian aircraft. When we as a country can not provide these men and women who paid the most highest price to protect our country a military transport aircraft to return their remains to the country they chose to serve and protect we should hang our heads in shame. I know that there is probably some "financial justification" for this however I strongly believe that this is not only an outrage but also a tremendous travesty of honor that their remains are shipped in this matter. Is the military ashamed to provide these men, women and their families the honor that they truly deserve. Yes I am sure that they provide the proper military honors upon the arrival of the aircraft in Dover but come on, why not a military aircraft instead of a civilian contracted flight. It just is not the same to me nor should it be to anyone that believes in the honor that these men and women justly deserve.

If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. I do ask that you keep my name anonymous as disclosing this information could cause me my position with my company. I will say that my company is only one of many that provides civilian lift capability for AMC. If we have done this on our flights how many of the other carriers have done so also.

Respectfully
Kevin McKinley

http://www.iraqwarveterans.org/kevin.htm

You want to respect somebody by spending enormous amounts of money honoring their lifeless remains? If I die, I'd rather have the money going to people who are living. Personally, I'd be okay with being thrown in a wooden box and shipped home... save the money to better equip the living.

that fought in a foreign fucking war of lies and they deserved respect and need to be cared for by the military. What are you saying, just pile them up like the Katrina victims still waiting to be identified. That is another outrage! The straws are crumbling like hot ash!

continue shipping them on commercial airliners. I see no problem with that. How you can relate that to piling up bodies is baffling.

than we treat the living?

I'm all for color guards and the rituals that accompany war dead, but it's always struck me as very strange that people almost always get more respect dead than they did alive. Think about how many of them were crammed into airplanes and used as pawns in Iraq and Afghanistan. Think how many of them chimpy didn't care about one tiny little bit, they were only cannon fodder, as pieces in a game he was too chicken to play.

What a sad world.

nobody is giving coverage to the wounded and damaged soldiers either - and you know the emotionally damaged will never get the full treatment they will need.

The Bush administration just wants to use the living to be sacrificed for greed and power. It's a wonder they don't toss the bodies into the garbage! It is truly disgusting that our honorable soldiers are being treated in this way!

The use of commercial transportation to return a soldier like Matthew Holley home, is simply a pragmatic reality. What the article fails to discuss, is that the US military requires that specific protocols, intended to preserve the dignity of the fallen, be followed throughout the trip to the final resting place.

1) Remains are initially received at Dover AFB Mortuary, where they are prepared and enlosed within caskets for burial. From Dover, the body remains within the casket at all times during the final journey home. For transport aboard a commercial carrier, the casket is protected from damage by enclosure within a specialized shipping container (custom cardboard box). The photo accompanying the news story depicts a large cardboard box being offloaded from a plane, but did it fail to contain the casket? The article doesn't say.

2) Perhaps more importantly, protocol also requires that the casket be acompanied by a military escort in dress uniform at all times during transport. The escort's job is to esure the remains are neither misplaced nor mishandled during shipment. The escort literally travels with the casket all the way from Dover AFB Mortuary to the gravesite - within practical limitations. When the casket is transferred on/off the airplane at a commercial airport, it's really not practical for an escort to stand on the tarmac at the foot of the plane. However, the escort must rejoin the casket at the cargo terminal and ensure it is transferred to a hearse from the funeral home. The news article doesn't really indicate the above procedure was not followed.

So while I would agree that the practice of shipping bodies on airliners isn't ideal, in reality it's a pragmatic and expedient method for returning fallen soldiers home. I really don't have a problem with it, as long as the protocols outlined above are followed - in this regard, the news article fails to offer any specific information indicating that protocols weren't followed.

at least with my airline, but I don't know how or why it would be any different on any other carrier.

for the military. How could they respect the military when they don't respect the T-R-U-T-H...Truth is for suckers.
We have DENIED men and women who have given their LIVES for Bush's war to be given the respect of an American Flag draped coffin and honor guard.A draped coffin is THE ONLY TIME a superior officer must salute a soldier. Good God this is who our military USED to be.Bush would not even allow a picture!
Bush is the first "president" to cut pay to soldiers during a time of war!
He is the first "president" to close military bases during a time of war.
A MILITARY BASE is H-O-M-E- to many soldiers... it is their BASE.
I hate these "men"(cowards) who make "rules".They don't know the definition of a Hero.

Nominated.

:grr:

And the Neocons are supposed to have respect for the troops? I think not. Cannon fodder is all the troops are to them. Just a tool thats necessary for them to fulfill thier selfish deeds with.

...with this?

Anyone for "Eminent Domain" to sell the new side-by-side estates of Cheney and Rumsfield (and ALL of Condi's Ferragamo's) and put the money towards respect for the men they send out to be slaughtered?

Oh, and yes..."Bastards. Cheap Lying Bastards, at that."

since Nam, so in that respect the parents of that rallen Marine are WRONG... now a Color Guard should have met the coffin at the Airport and uloaded from the plane, and then accomopanied all the way to wherever a wake was held, and finally to his resting place. But the matter of transport, DOD starting doing what has been standard since ever to transport bodies in commercial planes... the trains no longer run all the place they used to.

...is a hell of a way to spend the money to give a soldier bullet-proof shielding, rather than spending the money to provide adequate vests and vehicle defense to keep them alive in the first place.

inside there is a simple pine box... which will be covered with that same flag as soon as the transport crate is removed

But it sure would be nice if "News 10" would require the author of their stories to but their names on their stories, something that is happening too often, and usually signals "Dis-Info."

Anyone have a second source?

I'm also having trouble finding an address for "News10" also.

I'm being totally serious here, not disrespectful, but I'm astonished at the knee-jerk reaction here. Private citizens ship human remains as cargo at my airline several times per month. Thousands of bodies are shipped via airline cargo across this nation every month. And yes, the military does it too, but so do professional mortuaries, and well as thousands of ordinary citizens each month like the Joneses and the Smiths who find themselves in the position of needing to ship a loved one home after a death. THIS IS NOT UNUSUAL! THIS IS NOT DISRESPECTFUL!

Think about this situation: What are you supposed to if Grandma should pass away on a visit at Aunt Bettie's? Drive her back home in a rental car? Buy her a train ticket? Buy her a ticket in the cabin of the aircraft? There is no easy answer. I can assure you that the living are squeamish (even with Grandma) and do not often want to stay by the deceased for very long, except maybe in a funeral parlor.

The logistics of moving the deceased intrastate is regulated and controlled, don't you know, there is the matter of the logistics and a proper container, etc. At my airline, we treat the families and the remains with the utmost respect, and charge far, far less than it would have cost the family using other means.

(And yes, the cost and money is an issue to many people who find themselves facing an unexpected death. My grandmother's funeral was $7000 -- just the burial plot was $4000 -- and it was financially devastating to my aunts. I'm sorry to say, but we had to economize and be practical and we had to take up a collection among the rest of the family to assist with those costs.)

Anyway, back to the topic: for your information, there are a lot of rules concerning the shipping of human remains -- I challenge some of you (who are so damned offended) to look into this!

I don't see anything disrespectful about it. What should the military have done? Put the casket in the back of a long-haul truck? Please. The family would have been said he was shipped like a horse. Have him arrive in a military truck or Jeep? Have his body arrive in the back of a hearse -- the family would have been traumatized by that image of a black funeral car as well. Have them meet his body at the train station -- the family would have said that he was shipped as freight in that situation as well.There is no easy way to do this (ship a body).

As I learned when my mother died (and we needed to get her body to a University), PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY AT THIS TIME IN HISTORY HAVE NOT EVER BEEN PREPARED TO DEAL WITH DEATH, with the actual body, the actual remains, with the aftermath of death. We all are learning this, too, with the victims of the Katrina flooding.

What is with the knee-jerk reactions on DU lately? I know we're all fed up with this lying, conniving misAdministration, etc., and this horrible, illegal, god-forsaken occupation in Iraq -- but we have to use our reason, too.

I had to escort my brother's body home on a plane. I was in the cabin, he was in the cargo area. I knew it had to be that way...

people are getting pissed off over a story meant to distract, no disrespect to the trooper or his family... in the meantime wonder what they are donig?

What would be the problem with honoring the dead with a military transport to their final destination? I think that is the families beef. What would be the problem with a color guard and escorted transport to the funeral home? I'm sure local law enforcement would be happy to oblige with an escort and the color guard could come from local units.

what I resent is the implication that the thousands of other people (regular citizens) who are forced to ship their grandmothers or loved ones each month using commercial airlines are somehow disrespecting their own family members by using those means.

As you note, there is nothing inherently disrespectful about this manner of transport. The people you are talking about have no other options. They show respect how they can. They feel it as well.

What is different in this case is that our government has all of the resources to treat these folks in a manner that their families would want. They deserve nothing but the best considering that their family members died serving. They have given everything and the feds are too cheap to get them home in the manner that befits their sacrifice. The government should spare no expense with our servicemen. We owe them that much. Any cost cutting in the manner our service people are treated DOES amount to disrespect.

ass! Dishonorable as dishonorable dick and the rest of his bunch! You wouldn't know dignity if it slapped you upside the head. Criticize the people on DU just because your employer hauls bodies and its does ok. Well these are people that have been killed! as in fucking blown up for lies. They need to be treated with more than stupid questions about UHAUL blah blah blah! And then you resort to criticizing people on DU for knee jerk reactions. Why don't you join up with Lieberman and his bunch of whiners cript keeper.

What WOULD make you happy? The bodies of military personnel do receive special attention on commercial airliners. I am almost 100% sure that there was a military escort saluting the body, but the video seems to have omitted that by zooming in on the casket. There is ALWAY an escort at the end of the belt loader. I know because I escort many of those military escorts at O'hare airport and I can tell you firsthand that the remains are respected.

Dump trucks are not useful in moving things such as coffins.

Does the military have a huge fleet of planes? Why the hell would they not use them in this instance?

Actually I do not need your answer. I will tell you. Bean counting pricks at the Pentagon who put cost over the lives of our servicemen that's why.

This lack of respect is a function of military accountants and their restrictions. We can drop all of the expensive explosives in the arsenal. We will always find money for that. But, when it comes to treating the wounded and returning the bodies of those killed in this disaster they get fucking cheap real fast.

It is sickening the lack of respect these people are receiving.

I really do not care what decisions people make about their own family members. If they want to choose that option. Fine. But, these people deserve better and they deserve the tab to be picked up by the lying bastards that sent them there and those of us that are making it possible by paying the taxes.

"Hi, I'm George Dumbya Booosch.

I am an AWOL, cocaine addicted coward who never did anything right in my life except use people. I wanted to be a WAR Preznint, and be thought of as a HERO, and make lots of MONEY for my RICH FRIENDS so I am sending your sons and daughters and daddies and mamas to blow up people and take their oil.

Aren't I a TOUGH GUY? And look, those soldiers were never gonna be anything. How do you know their lives would be worth anything anyway? I mean, they aren't ever gonna be filthy rich like me and my friends, so what's the point in crying over those losers?

When I'm done using them as fodder, I'll sneak 'em back to you. You DO support the Preznint, right? Well, don't tell anyone I killed your kids! Support the troops!

Gawd told me I can do NO WRONG and I've got TONS of AMERICAN DUMBASSES who still drive around with my stickers on their cars. They believe EVERYTHING I SAY AND THEY WANT YOU TO QUIT WHINING ABOUT DEAD SOLDIERS! Ain't life great?"

I'm not usually one to throw water on a good scandal, but this is not a good scandal.
With nearly ten years eperience working on an air ramp for a major airline, and most of that time in the air cargo department, I would just like everyone to know that it is standard proceedure to ship human remains in the bellies of comercialal aircraft. Yes, they are in there with the luggage, but luggage nor anything else is piled on the caskets. I have shipped the remains of military personel, civilians and even coworkers who had died in plane crashes. I can tell all of you that from my experience these bodies are always treated with the utmost respect. And in the case of military remains they are accompanied by an escort in a dress uniform (often a buddy of the deceased) who is walked out onto the ramp to observe the off-loading and who stays with the casket until it reaches its destination.
There is plenty to criticize about this administration's treatment of our troops without letting this red herring distract us from the real problems.

I see the military escorts. I see the parents. I see a flag-draped coffin. What is the problem?

I realize that it is cargo, I have no problem with that, but to *present* the remains as cargo *TO THE DAD* is a different story.

And part of the problem is that the kid is dead in the first place because of WMDs, er, I mean bringing democracy to Iraq, er, I mean they had something to do with 9/11, er, I mean....why the fuck are we there?

Have they admitted it's about oil yet? :shrug:

FTR, I have carried guys in bags and been part of escort details, but I NEVER saw a casket on a forklift (I have seen them on cargo lifts getting them on and off non-cargo planes).

Would you like 6 people to lug the casket around everywhere it goes? Why?

something you would have done at your last ceremony here on earth before the dust is kicked over your coffin?

I'll be dead. I won't be around to care what happens, will I?

troops! God damn it! They deserve BETTER!

I guess they could go into the plane, remove three rows of seats in line with one of the emergency exits, remove the exit door, attach six tiedown shackles to the boltholes that held the seats down, put Matthew Holley's flag-draped casket in through the emergency exit, put the door back on and have thirteen Marines escort the casket back to St. Louis.

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to how the airline would react to that?

I hate to be crude about this, but the poor guy's dead. He doesn't give a shit how he's shipped. He should be met by an honor guard--recruiters work if there are no other troops available, but in St. Louis that's not the case (National Personnel Records Center is in STL, and soldiers work there)--but he's got to go in the cargo hold.

planes!

Dude, I have been in more fucking Air Force cargo planes than you can shake a stick at. Trust me on this: being shipped as freight on a commercial jetliner is a HELL of a lot more dignified than being shipped as freight on a C-17.

Besides, there are no Air Force planes to spare to haul caskets to the next of kin. They're busy taking troops to the killing fields and bringing them back to Dover.

What's the solution? It's easy, but Bush will never go for it. Just pull the troops out of that God-forsaken shithole and we won't be having this debate.

more respectable!

Here's your sign...

<>

Both are from San Diego.

Cunningham lined his pockets with money from a sham contractor using DoD millions and the KIA Marine arrives in a cardboard shipping box on his final journey home.

Such compassion.

And why would General Pace allow this to happen. Apparently he was too busy delivering Bush's stump speech on how great things are going in Iraq. This Marine says otherwise.

But why am I not surprised.

It's sickening. Downright frightening even that our troops have been reduced to cargo. Is that W's way of supporting our troops?

For everybody to see. For many, seeing a military hero being offloaded from THEIR plane is the closest they come to feeling this war.

on honorable transport of soldiers that died for their interest and purchase better armor, protection from depleted uranium, treatment for wounded soldiers, blah, blah, blah and more blah...GIVE ME A BREAK!

Are neo-con enablers/collaborators BLIND? Look at how many billions have been spent to date and these criminals ask for more yet you try to protect their thievery by cutting corners on honorable transport of slain soldiers?

Honestly, how much is the govt paying you to post this?

You say you want the government to save money by honorably transporting bodies. What would you do differently that would be MORE honorable and LESS expensive?

Secondly, how is stating that money should not be taken from the living and spent on the dead protecting any thievery that is going on?

Thirdly, the government is paying me nothing. I do work for one of the civilian companies that so crudely transports bodies in the cargo hold instead of in the passenger cabin. You know, as opposed to those that do remove seats from planes and fly human remains in the first class cabins.

Of course taking money away from the living and spending it on human remains does not make sense to me. I think honoring somebody by spending money on their remains is kind of silly. Honor them by pulling out of this illegal war that killed them. Shipping people in golden coffins is meaningless.

That is why one mother's last picture of her son's flag draped coffin was taken away from her and destroyed. Plain view. Yep. :eyes:

and promptly being forwarded to my one repug/military friend.

1) The video purposly does not show the military escort waiting outside the plane at the end of the beltloader. See... damn liberal media at work.

2) You better not tell me you want gas-guzzling jets delivering a few bodies when they could be flown on commercial airliners with hundreds of other people.

3) So what do you want to take away from the living soldiers to pay for the dead ones to be shipped on these special airplanes in special coffins?

4) Would Jesus want the government to spend money on extravagent transportation of human remains while people at home are starving?

You get the point.

could be used here. Get a clue, read.

I am saying we should spend less since we are already spending too much... and you are telling me that I don't see the thing I am arguing against. It makes no sense. Why squander more money on human remains?

In San Diego? It reads like it was written by a fucking 10-year-old.

This is another issue that Democrats should take up. While the Republicans are claiming to be the best friend of the military and to be the group that supports the troops they are allowing their bodies to be sent home as freight. Where is the support from the Republicans? The list of things the Republicans have done to not support the troops just keeps growing.

..supporter.. and his family(probably Bush supporters) is complaining?

too bad, soo sad..

American who wore the uniform. Bombs and bullets don't distinguish party lineage.

today...

Oh and by the way, not that you would know this, most in the miliatry are NOT in favor of the madness... not that you are paying attention either, but they are paying with their feet where they can by LEAVING the service

know why Dubya doesn't want the press to film bodies being returned to their families.:sarcasm:

We can all grieve for this family, but I find using this matter to make political hay distasteful.

When you're killed in a dirty imperial war, that's rather sufficient reason for outrage, isn't it? Your life's been cashed in by liars, and they're spending the chips!

Violations of corpse-transportation etiquette, however, tend to pale beside the lies, torture, massacres, and banditry. And if you think John Kerry would have looked after our fine young corpses better than Bush, well, I'm pleased for you. Me, I'm looking for something else.

An end to this war.

Says she is a truck driver. In the summer of 2005 a semi overturned in TN and there were 30 bodies of soldiers/marines on the truck being shipped with other things such as hazardous material. It was all kept quiet. The boxes were marked as "funeral pending". I may not have the story exactly right, but it was pretty disturbing.