CNN Poll: 74% say Schwarzenegger was right not to grant clemency

Was California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger right not to grant clemency to killer Stanley Tookie Williams?

Yes 74%

78176 votes

No 26%

27037 votes

Total: 105213 votes

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/12/williams.execution/index.html

:-(

Haven't people had their of killing, torture and hate for 2005?

the hell does america get the moral authority to murder people?

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re: "burning in hell" not to start a flame war, but hell doesnt exist, it's here. :p

I'm staying up till 3:01 tonight, because when Tookie gets offed I wanna pop a cork on a bottle of champagne. Bastrad deserves to die. He founded a ruthless gang, he was a ruthless gang member. Too late for your "nonviolent message" now, Tookie!! Shoulda had a nonviolent message 25 years ago, shouldn't you?

But you message 25 years ago was quite violent, and now, finally, you will get what you deserve! Burn in hell, Tookie!

:sarcasm:

Too bad he took four people with him, and too bad the legacy that he created, The Crips, have taken 10,000 with them.
Too bad The Crips have gone nationwide, and terrorized neighborhood after neighborhood, taking over the streets, and making it so that we can no longer feel safe in our neighborhoods, and on our streets. They are garbage, every one of them, and all Crips...and Bloods...and any other gang members, for that matter....they ALL deserve to die.

At least Tookie will.

I'm thinking that if the poll results are correct, and 74% of those polled support his execution, then someone isn't being totally honest. We hear every day that 32% of those polled support *, and that they're usually the group that is associated with supporting the DP. 32% vs. 74%.

Someone isn't being totally honest.

I'm also betting that the needle won't sting as much as a 12 guage shotgun blast to the face from close range... pity that.

But your blood thirst forced me to respond.

A little over nineteen years ago, I was abducted by three men w/knives and taken to where I found out later was a crack house. There I was tortured, raped, robbed, stabbed, beaten and left for dead by a fourth man, "the guy w/the gun".

Had it not been for a couple that found me and took me to a hospital, I would have died. Oh, how I wish that couple had not found me.

During the six month investigation, I spoke w/many cops and the main detective on my case. One day we got into a conversation about the death penalty. If they found the men that fucked up my life forever, they wanted to know, would I want them to get the DP.

Surprising myself, I answered no. W/all that I had been through and would go through, the thought of someone dying because of me, was too much to carry on my conscience.

Instead, I wanted them to suffer the lack of independence that I now suffer, for the remainder of their lives. (Life w/o parole.) Sadly, they were never found. To this day, I feel the same and can not understand why anyone would cheer on the death of another human being.

Tell me honestly, do you like to drink blood too?

:hug:

People like you give me hope that we still are better than animals.

You are one person who understandably could demand revenge, yet you don't.

Blessed are the Peacemakers.

I'm cheering the death of a walking piece of shit. That's what Tookie is. That's what the guys who did what they did to you were. And if I were a prosecutor, and had caught them, I'd have gone for the DP against them, whether or not you wanted me to.

Society must be protected. and some elements of society simply need to be offed. vicious predators who show no mercy to their victims need to be offed. That simple.

When they commit acts such as they do, they relinquish any claim they have left on humanity, and become nothing but walking pieces of shit.

Tookie Williams is still a human being. He is a human being that may have committed a horrible crime, but in the years since he's been in prison, he chose to give back to society.

In this world of ours that is filled w/so much hatred and evilness, I simply do not understand what his death will accomplish. We need more, not less people willing to give whatever goodness they possess.

In the almost four years I have been coming to this board, I have never put anyone on ignore. But now I will. I don't want any of your kharma touching me.

:hug: In my opinion the death peanlty has always been the easy way out for someone to serve their crime. I do believe in the afterlife and reincarnation (from my own personal experiences) and this person could be the same in their next life and just go around and hurt other people. Why not try to make this person a better person? Seems to me Mr. Williams has been doing that. And on Rhandi's show yesterday she told how one of the victims wives forgave him: so why not other people? And there are apparently a lot of holes in the case. I hope we know someday whether or not he really did it or not.

I would be very careful if I were you. My grandmother, a wise old lady, said bad thing usually happen to those who wish ill for others. I've watched that over the years and she is absolutely correct. I know someone who hated an in law, wished him dead, and within six months of her making a statement to that effect, she lost two of her closest relatives. She was devastated. YOu wish bad things for others, you get the same for yourself.

shouldn't our criminal justice system be founded in the principle that people can reform?

That said, the death penalty should be for the truly dangerous, when it seems that the public does not have the facility to defend itself from an individual.

I read about teenaged boys accused of having sex getting publically hanged.

NPR had a story about "honor killings" where a girl who was kidnapped from her family and threatened with rape and murder if they did not remove their son from the police force cooperated and did so, and the daughter was returned.

Because she had been raped, however, they killed her. "She probably expected open arms, but instead she got bullets" was the translation of a family member.

He said that the laws in dealing with cases like this should be to protect us from others. When a loved one, or someone we just knew really well, gets murdered we want revenge on them. If you don't know whether or not the accused person did it or not you could make a horrible mistake and than you'd be thrown in jail for murder. Taking Mr. Williams life away isn't going to slove anybody's problems. Those of you wishing him to die are no better than whoever did committ those murders whether it was him or someone else who framed him.

..nice to hear others say it...

I say: If my family was a victim of a crime, gawd forbid,...then I would need the LAW to protect me from own irrationality. Absolutely. Without. A. Doubt. I could hear myself (maybe) saying I wanted someone to die for this (maybe..I just don't know)...so I would desperately need the LAW to be my common-sense compass in the heat of my pain. Thank you, my point for years. :)

I know when I'm really pissed off I just have so much anger I have to let it out somewhere. There have only been a few times in my life where I've been really pissed off. Those times I took out my anger on my pillow. Of course not everybody is like me...

can you imagine if we were permitted as victims to "have our way" ...road rage would look like a picnic. :crazy:

Disgusting.

I'll spell it out for you, okay??

R-E-V-E-N-G-E!!!!

Revenge is so sweet. When someone who truly deserves it...like Tookie...gets it.
Even so, he will still get more mercy than he showed his victims!

Using that logic, then you would gladly accept Iraqis coming to kill and maim your children, because that's what we're doing to theirs every day, right? I can understand THAT completely.

first, I have no children, and cannot...so the question is moot.

BUT, even supposing I had children...Guess what?? I OPPOSE THE WAR IN IRAQ!! I don't think we ought to be there. I am not killing them, I am not advocating killing them. so, if they came to kill me or my children, then that would be as wrong as what our soldiers are doing to the collateral damage over there.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Tookie is not a human being. He surrendered his claim to humanity when he did what he did. He's a walking piece of shit. And deserves as much mercy as one.

the way they ought to execute him is dress him in a brown wetsuit, with no oxygen tank, and flush him down a huge toilet, and let him go down with the rest of the crap.

You think they care who or who doesn't support the Iraq invasion? Nope. I can betcha they don't care but would hurt anyone of us in a heart beat. Look at the Christian peace makers in Iraq who were kidnapped. They opposed the war and were there helping but that didn't matter did it? Our soliders are killing innocent Iraqi's. Should they get the death penalty? They're killing children and women (even pregnant women) and dropping gas bombs on them and everything. It's not apples and oranges. That's a cop-out.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Rachael Maddow earlier this month told on her show that more people now days are against the death penalty than they were in the 90's. I think it should be banned from this country. We've all seen too much pain.

eom

...it's open to anyone who views the CNN Web Site.

I'm a Californian, so let's be fair...

I forgot about the rest of America.

...California is home to the good, the bad, and the ugly.

There's much to be proud of in this state, and much to be ashamed of as well.

But whether it's DU, CNN, or our "friends" over in FreepTown, what we've been hearing today is the Voice of America...AND the world. Anyone with an Internet connection, basically...

For better or worse.

So probably a bit fewer (but still a solid majority IMO) supported it for Williams.

I'm in the minority.

in celebrating, but I couldn't think of any reason to grant clemency.

But, nevertheless...when someone who founded a rotten GANG...who has gone on to fuck up our neighborhoods, and take them away from us...so we can no longer feel safe on our own streets, in our own towns...when someone like that gets the death penalty, sorry...i'm pleased.

I know, bad liberal. Too fucking bad. I want our streets back again! I want our neighborhoods back again! I want to feel safe in my own town again! I don't want to have to be afraid to be out on the streets of my own town, because of gangs. Fuck 'em. Gang membership, in and of itself...ought to be a capital offense!

You don't feel unsafe walking the streets because of gangs. You feel unsafe because of who YOU are and the ridicule that you feel and live with every day. Your posts aren't about Tookie or justice. It's about channeling all of your frustration and anger and rage into this bloodthirsty call for his death.

How many people in your life have deemed you less than human, a piece of shit? Finally, you have found someone that society values even less and is more afraid of than you, someone that you can feel superior to. Does comfort you not to be the object of ridicule? You do realize that this camaraderie you are experiencing is based on nothing but hate and is destined to quickly fade. Those that stand beside you today are just as likely to call for your death just because of who you are and the lifestyle you lead in the coming months because they see YOU as less than human.

Just because you pronounce him a piece of shit and dehumanize him with your words, even as adamantly as you have, does not make it so. When you talk about celebrating the death of someone with champagne, it is YOU who have lost your humanity.

What I am is no bearing on this. Gang members scare the FUCK out of me, because they do not value human life. they go and "pop" people just to watch their heads explode and then they laugh about it. That is what gang members do.

You don't value life either. Do you know anyone in a gang??

should be put to death?

Do you scare anyone? Report for your execution.

Well said :applause:

been trying to keep other kids from joining gangs. Let's just write him off. Blood thirsty lyncher!

there'd have to be a reason for denying it

The shopkeeper and his family that were slaughtered by Tookie. There's FOUR reasons. Your turn.

Prove it was him.

Here's why: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5580445&mesg_id=5581956

:yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock:

in all of this, which really saddens me.

These people have had their lives torn apart and their hearts broken by senseless acts of violence perpetrated by Tookie Williams.

What about them?

What about them?

No, instead, in some misguided understanding of "liberalism" these people here are all clamoring for mercy to be shown to a walking piece of shit.

and attacking my liberal credentials, because I, for one, happen to feel that...in this case...justice is being served!

I generally don't like the death penalty, either. but there are times it's justified...this is one such occasion.


I'm reminded of a line from the movie "Shocker" by Wes Craven...remember that movie? When they were about to put Horace Pinker to death....the administrator of the facility siad "ordinarily, this is a duty I wish was not mine. However, today, I feel justice is being served."

That is exactly how I feel about Tookie.

Ordinarily, this is an occurance I wish would not happen (the death penalty.) However, today, I feel justice is being served.

And like I said in another thread, I am tired of seeing so many grieving mothers, who have had their hearts broken due to violence.

Enough is enough. We need to teach these young folks to respect their own lives, and to respect other people's lives. They don't see what they do to families, when they kill people just on GP.

On Rhandi's show she reported one of the victims wives forgave him. So why can't you? I guess forgiveness doesn't matter in this country anymore. He has changed his life and has tried to keep others out of gangs but of course that doesn't matter. Focus on the past. Sad really.

It's not MY job to forgive Tookie Williams.

I'm talking about the families here who were affected. I think it's great that one of the victim's relatives said she forgave him. I think that is absolutely what Jesus would want.

But what about the other victims' families?

Do you know if he did it or not? Prove it.

continue this irrational practice. Murdering this man will not bring his victims back. His words and efforts to prevent others from choosing the path he has chose is an example of something positive coming out of something so negative. I would rather that he live so that others can be convinced that killing is not the answer than to have those he has been able to reach see that redemption does not exist in America. I don't think for a minute that murdering this man will prevent others from killing others. It just serves to continue to ignore the real issues and causes of violence.
Sometimes America disappoints me.This is such a time.

only the walking piece of shit who offed them. In cold blood.

As it is, he'll get more mercy than he showed those people.

You're a pure lyncher. Shameful.

who don't take kindly to sociopaths who slaughter entire families and turn convert only after they are caught.

n/t

Arnold is a dumbass and him and smirko can kill without remorse.

would vote in that percentage....I think it would be atleast 50/50 or even a majority against the death penalty...

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troopper must be so proud of his son right about now.

Pure Nazi. Just like Bush. Yet they can go and kill thousands of innocent people and nothing happen to them. Where's Jerry Falwell now for a born-again man? He can rush to save Terri Schavio and Tucker but not a black man. *gasps* no way!

that shot and nearly killed him, people around the world were moved. "What a wonderful thing!"

Now half of the country is begging for a smidgen of compassion and humanity that would come from sparing one's man's life, the other half is hell bent on taking that life away. Will their lives be better, more refreshed tomorrow?

But we'll be that much safer. One more murderous bastard gone forever.

Now if we could only get rid of ALL gang members in the same way.

If I had my way, gang membership, in and of itself...would be a capital offense.

to the event and she is a revved up to give you all the details!

to watch the hanging. Pathetic entertainment.

I was surprised when I read about that and thought that was wonderful. I wish more people would do that. *sigh*

to end violence is with violence. There is a misguided way of thinking in this country and the thinking goes that the only way to gain justice is to murder the murderer. There are other means of justice, we just seem to take the easiest way out. Will we ever tire of our need to shed blood in vain?

tire of bloodshed.

We should all just believe it- because if CNN says it- it must be true!

After all, they've been pesuading DU'rs on thread after thread since 2001.

the greater good... and our country is sick

I'm not surprised at all. Tookie is black. I would expect this kind of reaction from much of America. They are still angry at OJ Simpson while no such venom is directed at Robert Blake, also acquitted, then found liable in a civil trial. Racial hatred is reflected in that poll.

if someone is doing scientific surveys on this, especially if they are informed of the fact that these were race inspired murders that he boasted about afterwards and never has publicly admitted nor shown remorse for. I'm against capital punishment, but I'm also against special treatment because a murderer becomes a celebrity in jail.

Join the ranks of Iran, Iraq, North Korea, (axis of evil) Pakistan, Sudan, Syria,and Saudi Arabia in places where the death penalty is permitted. And we are one of the only civilized countries to not have health care for all. What does that say?

don't know anything about the case. How do they know if he's innocent or not? I hate how people are blood thirsty in this country. So disgusting and shameful.

I'm disgusted at the complete evil in human beings sometimes. The world is seriously lacking morality. This man, if these were his crimes was immoral, does that give other people the right to be as well????? Who's worse then??

beyond words.

If he is guilty - why should he get off easy? Death is quick. It will likely not be quick for me or 90% of those who read this post. We will go out kicking and screaming.


He gets the EASY WAY OUT? People all over the country with cancer and other horrific illnesses are begging for it - we choose to give it to a murderer?




WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!

Tookie Williams asked to die

You don't talk to anyone unless they have a star? Rude! What a nice welcome for the person.

The death penalty is the easy way out. Do you think just because he dies the victims families will get over it? Will it bring them back from the dead? And also since I believe in the afterlife and reincarnation I believe people should have the chance to change if they choose to do so. When they die and go to the afterlife and choose to reincarnate they could still be the same and keep on hurting people. Plus, if the person does get clemacy and is in jail and they find out the truth and the person could be innocent than they could go free. As I've told before in another thread here in my town on the local news it was reported this girl twenty years ago accused this guy of rape. He was just recently let out of jail because she lied and he was innocent. So what if he was murdered? The death penalty is nothing more than legalized murder. So should all the soliders who are in Iraq come back and get the death penatly because they are killing innocent Iraqi's from women/men to children?

You know the religous right are constantly screaming about the fact that we are a country based on Christian belief. Well, it is really showing tonight isnt it?

Jesus was for "turn the other cheek", "love thy neighbor." Where are they? What are they saying about tonight?

I am very disappointed with the Vatican. I have heard nothing from them. And of course they were very vocal with Terri Schiavo and pro choice candidates in the 2004 election. Will Arnold be refused communion? Doubtful. Even though I'm not for the church getting involved in American politics, wouldn't they at least be consistent?

Ahhhhhnold has recieved over his decision? They shouldn't let idiots like Swollenpecker decide serious issues...but then again we let Dimson do it on the national level.

Right along with Iran and other countries some say we despise.

Part of me feels that the monsters who take joy in slaughtering innocents deserve the ultimate punishment. On the other hand, Jesus prayed that God would forgive those who crucified him.

I recognize that one of the main reasons we still have capital punishment in our society is our basic thirst for revenge. When someone kills four people for less than $300, though, I cringe to think that he will be living out his days enjoying three meals a day, shelter, and free health care at taxpayers' expense. We don't take care of our law-abiding citizens that well!

The victims in the Williams case were killed in gruesome fashion (I've seen the pictures). Why do we hear so much about "Tookie" and so little about them? Are their lives so meaningless?

I don't believe that Williams was innocent. His armies of lawyers have spent more than two decades trying to refute the evidence that convicted him. According to one witness, Williams laughed for several minutes when he talked about the sounds one of his victims made as he was dying.

Yes, I'm conflicted about the death penalty, but "Tookie" is hardly the poster child for abolishing it.