nancy grace deathwatch: she just can't wait.

time to exterminate another black man.

Kill another Asian Family.

!

have recanted their testimony. so, either they were lying for the government then, or they are lying now. which do you think it is?

from what I have heard, there was never any physical evidence against wlliams, only the testimony of three questionable people.

does anyone else know more about this? I had never even heard of williams until about two weeks ago.

The man has done a lot of great things for his race, poor, etc. But he's done a lot of stupid things too.

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...times in the past few days. Shotgun shells at the scene matched Tookie's shotgun to the exclusion of all other shotguns. The shotgun was recovered from the place where Tookie stayed. And it was the same shotgun that Tookie had purchased four years earlier.

remember her?

she was killed by the state of texas a couple of months ago.

they used the "gun ownership" claim against her too.

http://www.freefrances.org/

You really should stop using the "Free (Insert name of murderer here)" sites as your only source of information. You might try looking at the court records. Often they are on the internet.

She was seen hiding the gun on the day of the murders, after the murders. She had motive.

Just because it went back to him owning it doesn't mean anything. Anyone could've gotten the gun and used it.

Wow... the shotgun shells matched! Well, that's conclusive! Please go ahead and fry him.

(There is actually very little forensic evidence from a shotgun, pretty much all you have is the firing pin strike pattern, and that is EASY to either get wrong, or match to many shotguns).

I sure hope you never serve on my jury!

Not even any prints?

is not very indicative of anything.

I don't know if there was any other evidence linking him to the crimes other than "matched shotgun shells" and the
fingering of him from other gangstas (two of which have recanted, according to Jesse Jackson). So... one has to tie
his weapon to the crime. And with a shotgun, it's really very hard. Fingerprints on the shell case, left at the
scene, would be a bit more conclusive, but I haven't heard that. To be fair, I really haven't read about his crimes
at all. All that I reacted to was the statement that the shells could have only come from his gun which was found
where he was staying. And that is simply impossible without further evidence.

I do know that there is more than the firing pin strike indention. There is also the ejector mark from a pump gun. The forensic expert said it matched. Are you a gun forensics expert?

a collection that my father left to me.

And about those identifying marks left by either firing pins or ejectors... they simply aren't
that unique, not relative to the number of shotguns made for the more common models. Wear patterns
aren't that reliable either. Not to mention that there have been so many investigations into crime
lab screw ups and unqualified "experts" testifying for the state that it's really an absurdity.
I hope when you are charged with a crime that you can afford a proper legal defense... because the
mood right now (as witnessed by watching Rita Cosby and her ilk) is that if you are arrested and
charged... you are guilty. There have been some truly frightening people representing us as
prosecutors who, even in the FACE of incontrovertible DNA evidence, refuse to believe that they
could ever have charged an innocent person, much less gotten a conviction.

Others who were in jail told he did it and they got off on better sentences so they could've lied and used him.

Shotguns, by their very nature, don't leave ballistic grooving like rifles or pistols do. Save for the length of the barrel, which would change the shot spread, a 12-gauge is a 12-gauge is a 12-gauge. What you're really saying is "a shotgun was recovered from the place where Tookie stayed (blah blah blah)."
I'm content that the courts found Williams guilty as charged. And, though I am against the death penalty, I'd have had no problem with letting the guy rot the rest of his days away in an 6' x 8' cell. But don't try to sell me snake oil about one shotgun being provably the murder weapon "to the exclusion of all other shotguns," because it can't be done.
John
And that's my very first and very last comment on this whole Williams affair.

Shotguns do indeed leave a unique marking. After firing, the plastic section opens up and expands to the chamber walls. With extraction, as the bolt moves to the rear, the plastic section is scarred with unique markings on the hull.

By matching a hull found at the scene and a test one shot with the gun found at the home, you can tell if it's been shot from the same gun.

including a fine pair of Spanish "collectables"... (serial numbers are exactly one apart).

I will give you or anyone you can bring to the shooting range $100 if you can reliably tell them
apart by looking at either firing pin patterns or ejector patterns.

I'm not saying that Tookie was innocent, but I bet if he had spent the kinda money that OJ or
MJ spent, he wouldn't have been killed tonight.

But more to the point, do any of you death culture people believe that the state has not now and
can never make a mistake... or if not, then you have to somehow defend that somehow killing a few
innocents along the way is just the "price we pay" for our "justice" and is somehow acceptable.

At least, if we don't kill them, there is a chance that the innocent can be returned (look at
the innocence project for a complete list... I think you will find it shocking just how many
are proved innocent after being convicted with more evidence than convicted Tookie).

Remember that real like is NOT CSI or Law and Order.

But in a lab, it can be determined if a round came from the same gun or not. Neither myself or anyone could make this determination with the naked eye, but the "firing pin patterns or ejector patterns" can be made in a lab emvironment. That is where this match was made. Not saying Williams pulled the trigger, but the killings came from his gun.

A "matched set" of shotguns means nothing more than that they were sequencial in the production run. It does NOT mean that any special care was taken to give them exactly identical forensics.

however, it is very likely that the firing pins used in the two also likely came from the same mill run, probably from
the same pig. Some the metallurgy of the two sets of pins and other components is likely to be identical. So, unless
there are specific wear patterns (chipping or something else), there would be nothing to distinguish these two guns.

That even happens with regular guns too. Did you know that the same methodology was recently applied to trash bags in a criminal case to prove that two trash bags were close to each other on the same roll? (Criminal evidence has been thrown away in a plastic bag. They were able to prove that the bag came from a particular role that a guy had in his house.) Ballistic marks change with firing. The reason it can be used to match bullets to guns is that usually very few, if any rounds are fired between the murder shot and the time the gun is taken by police. But a few hundred fast FMJ rounds will change the ballistics. With the matched set of shotguns, the chambers will wear differently with firing and begin to leave distinguishing marks on the hull.

http://www.truthinjustice.org/junk.htm

Yup, those shotguns of mine will leave unique "fingerprints" on the shell casings to prove that they fired the fatal
shot. Right. You need to read some on how the prosecutors, the FBI, and the for-profit crime labs, are creating
a system where to be accused of a crime is to be convicted of that crime.

I liked this story in particular:

Strapped to a gurney in Texas' death chamber in February, 2004, just moments from his execution for setting a fire that killed his three daughters, Cameron Todd Willingham declared his innocence one last time. "I am an innocent man, convicted of a crime I did not commit," Willingham said angrily. "I have been persecuted for 12 years for something I did not do." Four fire cause and origin experts -- Gerald Hurst, John Lentini, John DeHaan and Kendall Ryland -- agree. "There's nothing to suggest to any reasonable arson investigator that this was an arson fire," said Hurst, a Cambridge University-educated chemist who has investigated scores of fires in his career. "It was just a fire."

God forbid, Silverhair, that YOU ever are in the proximity of a fire or other accident where people die. Americans
want someone to blame, especially for the death of a child. They will blame you, charge you, convict you and execute
you. And, apparently, if you were serving on your jury, you'd vote to convict as well. Because the science just
can't be wrong. Those trash bags are UNIQUE I tell you! (sarcasm)

Evidence that he was the one who used it is weaker.

murders too so they could've done it. Just because it was in his name, legally, doesn't mean it was done by him.

Passers by who reported seeing the particular group and vehicles at the locations described in the first shooting. They had stopped at a couple of other places and that was all cooroborated by passers by. So some of the guys directly involved told the truth about quite a bit of what happened. Is it possible they lied and Williams' roommate was with them? I suppose.

Williams' roommate was found guilty of a robbery where the shotgun shells used in the murders were stolen. The shotgun was found under his bed. And, IIRC, he was found guilty of a murder/robbery himself not long after.

you're a mind reader! You know his most intimate thoughts and what his future hopes and dreams were.

When are you taking that act on the road?

too. How does she/he know the thoughts in Nancy Grace's head?

...your comments were. Given the circumstances, and the fact that emotions were running very high at the time, it seemed a rather unnecessary and inappropriate comment to make, unless of course you are or were privy to the person's inner thoughts.

corresponding?

...executation, you would probably be screaming about a media blackout, media hiding news, media ignoring such an important story, etc.

ARUBA?!

oh my gosh, not nancy!

You complained about Nancy Grace and a death watch and being eager for Tookie's death. I had no idea who she was, so I googled, saw she was a reporter, and concluded that she was covering the story and you were griping about the media coverage. Now you are talking about Aruba? You have me confused.

Nancy Grace's show was 24/7 on that story.

What were you trying to complain about with the comment "Nancy Grace death watch"?

and say that for a long while (And probably still) Nancy Grace had a obsession with the missing girl in Aruba case. Just a guess as I don't really watch Grace. . although I listened to her for awhile when Taylor Behl went missing (She was a good friend of a few friends of mine which is the only reason I followed and been following that case)

who wasn't automatically guilty, if for no other reason than he's a man, so he must have done something wrong. She isn't a whole lot kinder to female defendants, either.

She pretty much follows the line, "If the police arrested you then you must have committed a crime."

In Nancy's world, police never make mistakes.

:puke:

...and CourtTV hires Ice-T to be her replacement. Oh, the banter he would provide....

Well, maybe only in an episode of the Twilight Zone. Well, only if the Twilight Zone was a left-leaning, Comedy Central show.

PB

http://www.savetookie.org/documents/Affidavit.pdf

what if it's true?

filled with misinformation.

After reading about Tookie's trial, I believe he is guilty. Of course, my beliefs have nothing to do with his guilt or innocence, but he has filed appeal after appeal, each on different grounds and all were denied. He is guilty.

Now, does he deserve execution? That's a whole other argument. I'm leaning toward abolishing the death penalty, but first "life in prison" should mean just that.

So disgusting. I hope the truth is known whether or not he was or wasn't involved in this someday.