Demand category 5 protection for New Orleans and Southern Louisiana!!!

Join me in flooding Washington! Louisiana groups have launched an effort to generate 300,000 e-mails demanding category 5 protection for New Orleans and Southern Louisiana. That means effective levees and flood control projects as well as comprehensive coastal wetlands restoration to give Southern Louisiana a critical storm buffer. Please take a second to help spread the word!

Take action now at http://www.democracyinaction.org/GRN/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=1521

So many frivolous threads and senseless arguments over what?

A whole city of Americans... a whole coastal region with MILLIONS of Americans suffering (((FREEZING IN TENTS!!!))), yet this thread dropped like a stone in the Mississippi River.

When we are gone, y'all will regret it!!!

This is THE nail in the coffin of the American Dream!!!

I'm going to visit NOLA next week, maybe on Monday. Gotta have an ACME oyster po-boy! :D

I'll act on your OP. :hug:

I'll be there Monday or Tuesday... mmm! ... ersters! :9

and I sent the message to five friends who also care. And they will each send it to five more, and so forth and so on.

:hug: Hope you have a safe trip home!

Watch out for road debris that could puncture your tires. :hug:

And you bring some Rolaids, in case of heartburn, as you eat your way home.


(LOL. Remember that post?) :rofl:

:D :9

A shrimp po-boy would do me right.

for the Gulf Coast...:hug:

I'll be lucky if I have hot water by the end of February... and there are others who are worse off than I. :cry:

if you don't want to do the petition, write your own letter in your own words and fax it with your name, address, to YOUR senators, or even to just the better (or if you have two dreadful senators, to the more senior) of your senators

assuming you're registered to vote, your name, address, and affiliation are already known to your senator's staff, and in that way you express your opinions without necessarily coming from a site with "underground" in the title or without being put in public as someone who signs petitions

if you don't want to send a fax or don't have access to a fax and don't want a copy machine dude to see your information, then place a phone call to your senator and express your thoughts in a short, polite statement

in this way maybe you can feel your privacy is respected while you are still able to get your opinions & wishes across

be courteous, your senator will not think you a kook or put you on a list for wishing cat 5 levee protection for new orleans area even if he happens to disagree

Have you started home yet? ARe you back in NOLA?

I have no choice... it will be a very cold Winter in the deep South.

how high do you want the Lake Ponchartrain levees to be?

who chose Cat 5 anyway?

what if somebody changes the rules, and there someday
is a 'Cat 6', do you think N.O. should be protected
from a 'Cat 6'?, if there ever is such a new definition.

this won't happen, by the way

Faith is believing in things when common sense tells you not to.---Miracle on 34th Street

excessively rude and cruel.

You live somewhere safe from floodwaters right? And your family is safe? Good for you. :sarcasm:

do you think the 'canal walls' know the diff
between a Cat 2 and a Cat 3 ...

those 'distinctions' are arbitrary from
the weather bureau

I give up, how much higher do you
want the lake wall to be?

actualy, the canal walls were not overtopped,
I like to start arguements,
the canal walls failed without being overtopped,
it seems that there were sub-soil problems,

I will post more, if there is any interest.

Ciao

edited for typo

what you were getting at. My apologies.

I just want to support Swamp Rat and all others that live down there but have to admit I know practically nothing about what the levees need. I do know that other places (Holland) have seemed to figure it out without killing off its people and closing its cities down.

first of all,
what do I say about the human suffering from the recent hurricanes.
I don't know what to say

with that said.

there are several issue involving rebuilding,
that, I am not hearing public debate,
that is troubleing, but

should the 'lower ninth ward' be saved
nobody talks

there are troubleing issues with\
the 'failed' canal walls,
the 17th St canal wall had recent repair,

How high should the lake walls be?
should there be 'internal N.O.' dikes? sorta Dutch redundant?

Pirilou punheteiro

Withstand a Cat 5...your comments make NO SENSE whatsoever.

We shouldn't rebuild the levees at ALL, because if we rebuild them to withstand a Cat 5...what happens if there's a Cat 6?

THIS is your strange logic. So what would you suggest? That we just give NOLA back to the ocean?

to their mission statement -->

http://www.orleanslevee.com/documents/Mission%20Statement.htm

tell them, they need to know your wishes.

P.S., please clue me in as to how high
you think the levees should be

... the levees adjacent to wealthier neighborhoods. You can bet they'd all be Cat 5, then. The 9th Ward levees failed because they were the "safety valve" for wealthier neighborhoods - plain and simple, imho.

Mother Nature sets her own rules.
A category five hurricane means
Winds stronger than 155 mph
Surge higher than 18 feet

Build a levee that can withstand that
And you've built a levee that can withstand any storm
Mankind can change the name of the category
But they can't increase the power of a hurricane

Only three category five hurricanes
Have made landfall in the last century
Most recenty Hurricane Andrew
From which I'm a survivor

As to who chose category five
Not really clear on the question
But the rating itself
Comes from the Saffir-Simpson model

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/aboutsshs.shtml
The Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale

while i believe the chance of a cat 5 making landfall at new orleans is very remote -- there are few cat 5s and they weaken as they move across land and new orleans is NOT right on the coast contrary to what they tell those who have never seen a map, the strongest storm category is cat 5, there is no cat 6

we need immediate protection from a cat 3, which is the promise, while katrina was cat 4 at landfall, it was actually only cat 3 at new orleans, so we didn't have cat 3 protection, we were cheated of what we paid for

because of the economic and military importance of the region, cat 5 protection is not an outrageous request, without oil security, this nation is doomed, we're too big to get around on donkeys, bicycles, and skateboards, and i haven't noticed any californians or new yorkers much wanting to build any refineries in their backyard lately, we're it, the whole country depends on us hugely so for safety's sake the extra protection of cat 5 is needed, if they say it's a cat 5, presumably it will actually withstand a cat 4 & this catastrophe can't happen again

I personally object to rebuilding levees that will leave the areas that they are protecting 20 feet below the waterline. To expect that system to work considering that the land in NO sinks a little every year is nuts.

So as long as we are spending vast sums of money to save a city lets just go whole hog. Raise the damn city.

Somewhere upstream is a pile of rock that could be shipped downstream. Pile it up block by block and lift the buildings up onto it. They did it with Galveston so why not?

So then when we have lifted the city and restored the surrounding wetlands we can all be proud when the next Cat 5 hurricane beats the crap out of NOLA. If it can't flood it won't flood.

:pals:

:hi:

sorry for the caps lock....

Congress needs to take action NOW to help the victims of Katrina.

American citizens need our help NOW!!!

Christmas and the New Year...ie. Senator Landrieu is threatening to force all of them to stay in Senate session UNLESS something is done about giving NOLA money fast to fix the levee system.

I FUCKING love Senator Landrieu, she kicks hardcore ass :)

I want to bear her children! :rofl:

You horny little sweetie pie you ;)

:rofl:

I LOVE the idea of flooding Washington!... until Mars Attacks (if and when), it's the next-best thing!
And here's what I added to the bottom of the msg:

And the neglect you've already shown is nothing short of criminal. It makes one wonder if all of you actually MEANT for New Orleans to be destroyed.

Please clean up your acts; it's a round world we live on, and what goes around comes around.

To everyone in the Senate!

messages inside? :)

"HELP!"

:kick:

:kick: Oops I stuttered.

:)

I think that was #5

Recommended

:hug:

when I can type.

Thank you for the heads up.

:toast:

:hug:

:kick:

LOVE your new peace signs!

:yourock:

:hug:

One day perhaps they'll learn.

Some of us believe that rebuilding in NOLA is just foolish in the face
of likely near-term *RE*destruction from rising sea levels and increasing
hurricane activity.

Things change, people need to be able to move on.

Build levees that can withstand 20 foot seas and Cat 6 hurricanes,
but you're fighting a losing battle and your sand castle will eventually
be swept into the sea, along with all the money you wasted on your levee
that could have instead been spent designing and building New New Orleans
in a location where it might survive a few hundred years or so.

Old New Orleans' time has passed, and it's time to accept that.

Tesha

With the Moderators...and I think the Moderators had enough work to do last night.

I'll just say, that your post is HIGHLY offensive to me and to THOUSANDS of people like me.

> I'll just say, that your post is HIGHLY offensive to me and to THOUSANDS of people like me.

Lots of things in life are offensive.

Many of them are true.

Let's discuss this again in, oh, say, 25 or 50 years.

Tesha

Nearly the exact same thing that you're saying here...those are "those who we shall not speak the name of"...yeah "them"

"Let's give NOLA back to the ocean", "Not worth rebuilding", "Get over it NOLA is gone", "Waste of time and money rebuilding the levees when the place is built below sea level anyhow"...this type of fucking garbage.

WHAT ABOUT AMSTERDAM, they got flooded in 1953, the WHOLE damn city got flooded...and they rebuilt the levees and last time I checked Amsterdam was still here and doing okay...and sure, they're STILL under threat from another big flood...but in 1953 they didn't say "Oh fuck it, Old Amsterdam is finished...lets move on...everybody move on somewhere else and just give it up"...no, they rebuilt.

So it can be done.

Amsterdam may not have long either, *ESPECIALLY* if "wrap-around
hurricanes" start reaching the Western coast of Europe.

Tesha

What the heck...why don't I just make a comment off the top of my head like you seem to be doing, here goes.

NEW HAMPSHIRE MIGHT NOT HAVE LONG EITHER. ESPECIALLY IF WRAP-AROUND CATEGORY 5 HURRICANES KEEP SWEEPING UP THE EASTERN SEABOARD.

Maybe you're a comedian?

You seem to be throwing a lot more emotion into this than actual,
factual argumentation.

BTW, NH actually *DOES* get hurricanes now, and if you'll recall,
Providence, R.I. once had a rather severe encounter with one
back around the beginning of the last century. Who knows,
thanks to Global Climate Change, we may get increasingly
severe ones here in New England. But I don't live on the
coast, BTW, and no matter what happens, hurricanes will
continue to lose strength over land.

I also live more than 100 M above sea level, although in the
worst-case ice melting scenarios I may end up rather trapped
on an island in an archipelago. :-)

Tesha

And other topics relevant to New Orleans. Hurricanes are another interesting topic.

You have supplied no factual argumentation--only opinion. And you think it odd that people wax emotional when you tell them to abandon their homes.

Thanks to you :hug:

I'll leave it there you don't on the face of things seem much the sort to be amenable to reason or arguments from compassion either one.But the question stands and were we face to face it'd be stated more forcefully namely who the hell( or various substitutes) died and left you in charge of the fate of millions and a century or two of history and tradition.

People on this thread are talking as if the government can just come up with a "new and improved" hurricane. A "shock and awe" hurricane that can destroy anything built for a category five hurricane.

These ratings come from the Saffir-Simpson scale.
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/aboutsshs.shtml

Even if you change the name of the rating, you're still not going to change the fact that the strongest hurricanes pack winds of more than 155 mph. That's a category five hurricane. The levees need to be built to protect against that.

> THERE WILL NEVER BE A CATEGORY SIX HURRICANE!

Ha ha ha ha ha!!! You're so funny! :rofl:

Tesha

Which is not funny.

Even less funny.

I'm sorry, but you'll have to offer a better proof of my
ignorance than just "said so!".

The reason there is no "Cat 6" defined yet is because
"Cat 5" has, so far, been sufficient. But when we start
seeing hurricanes that pack (oh, I dunno, say) 100% more
energy than the low end of Cat 5, you can bet someone
will define higher hurricane categories.

But this is yet another topic we'll be better-able to
discuss in 25 or 50 years; let's check-back then, ehh?

Tesha

Yeah, because there's no proof of what you're saying about MONSTER Category 6 Hurricanes...your get-out clause is:

"Check back in 25 or 50 years"

Pure sensationalism your comments are.

> Pure sensationalism your comments are.

I'm sorry, remind me again in which previous Hurricane Season
did we exhaust the available names?

...in which previous Hurricane Season did we have so many
hurricanes?

Planning for a likely future ain't sensationalism.

Tesha

There is no need for your comments here anymore. You have said enough already.

the entire Eastern seaboard and the Gulf coast of the United States should be evacuated forever, because the entire coastline, few thousand miles long, is vulnerable to hurricanes up to category 5 (there is no such thing as a category 6, by the way). This includes all the major cities on that coastline. Where would you have these many millions go?

By the way, NO may not be hit by another such hurricane in hundreds of years.

I guess it's pretty easy to say a city should be forgotten, that is if you don't live in it.

On Edit: Additionally, to prevent future loss of lives and infrastructure, we should evacuate all major earthquake zones, cities built in flood plains, and the entire northern part of the US (the coming ice age, you know). You know, of course, that eventually these cities will be devastated by the next major event. People are crazy for living in the midwest, too - tornadoes. I hope you realize that no place on earth is "safe" from disaster.

> By the way, NO may not be hit by another such hurricane in
> hundreds of years.

Oh my! That's a bet you shouldn't take!

And yes, humanity may be abandoning quite a bit of the planet
in the next century or so, but we can take each city in its
turn; no need for pre-emptive abandonment 'though smart
planning might be in order.

Tesha

Which is pretty much what I commented earlier.

So if you GET YOUR WISH and NOLA is given back to the ocean...where are the NOLA people supposed to live for the next 25 to 50 years?

Maybe y'all could accomodate them in say...New Hampshire?

> Maybe y'all could accomodate them in say...New Hampshire?

Okay; we've got lots of room.

But you'll have to bring the gumbo recipes.

Tesha

Restoring the wetlands, shoring up the levees & other quite do-able projects can save New Orleans for another few centuries.

There's been plenty of research but you're free to ignore it.

People they've been coming down for YEARS...for our food, for our spirit, for our music, for our Mardi Gras...this is what we've lovingly given to other people. And we've given that, and now we're in trouble and we ask for some help...and they're saying "Sorry, you're on your own"

25% of the nations oil we produce, the Port of New Orleans is the fifth largest port in the world...we DO MATTER, we're IMPORTANT.

No, if people like you don't want to help, then you're not getting ANY of our food...which is GOOD in it's own way, because that means there will be more crawfish etoufee and andouille sausage and jalapeno catfish for me.

I lived there for a year - AWFUL!!! The "food" is worse than English food! ;) :D

And worst of all, the people are cold as ice... as you can already see here.

Oh give me a fried catfish po boy and some shrimp creole any day of the way *Sigh*

The city and environs are surrounded by Lake Pontchartrain on the north, marshes and then Lake Borgne to the east, yet more marshes to the south and to the west of the airport.

The early French surveyed the area and located exactly the kind of site you suggest. They named it after a local Indian tribe whose name meant "red stick", or in French, "Baton Rouge". That is the nearest high site large enough to build a city, and it so happens there's already one there.

Now, in terms of rebuilding with greater density on the higher ground near the river, then we could talk. Throughout most of the city's history, in fact, those were the only areas developed, giving rise to the name "Crescent City" after its appearance on a map.

Rebuild with sense instead of sprawl? Yeah you right! But abandon the "World's Most Interesting City" altogether? Words fail me.

Seriously, if one considers the various disparate functions served
by Old New Orleans (entertainment, transportation, others?), then
one might conclude that they each could be located in separate
areas.

I'm pretty sure the Port of New Orleans functions could be
dispersed to other Mississippi River ports (or even other
parts of the country entirely).

The entertainment/convention business might remain on-site but
occupying a much smaller area than did the original Old New Orleans.

Tesha

You can tell me, I won't tell anyone...I swear it'll be our little secret.

his close, dear friend and boon companion, native New Orleanian Donna Brazile, might object. :evilgrin:

Say, why hasn't Donna been raising her voice? And Cokie Roberts, and James Carville, and...

One of the most historically significant and culturally important cities in the US and in case you've never been there it can be one of the most wonderful places on earth. If there's not a New Orleans I don't even want to live and that includes ALL of New Orleans and ALL it's people.

> ...and in case you've never been there...

FYI: I've been there.

Tesha

Have friends and family all over Louisiana (including 9th ward) just talked to one of them in BR and it is a hell hole down there for everyone right now. Have a heart, if this was your back yard and your family and friends suffering you'd want to rebuild and help them, too.

if you don't know what you're talking abt, strongly suggest you stfu

bin laden must be proud, here on a supposedly progressive website we have people who are actual americans or at least pretending to be talking seriously abt abandoning a key region necessary to the production of oil -- and there are more mouthpieces, saying the exact same words, on the winger sites too!

without the northern gulf of mexico, you can kiss the usa as a world power good-bye

i'll give you a little clue, tesha, most americans are at least vaguely aware of this little thing called the mississippi river & the fact that we need a port on it if we're have to a decent economy, new orleans is not a sand castle, it ain't on the ocean, it's on the mississippi at the best place chosen over the centuries for such a port

now i can see why bin laden would want you to spread lies abt cat 6 hurricanes but i don't quite see why any true american, right or left, would go along w. this, it would have taken you abt 5 seconds on google to learn that cat 5 is the strongest storm category

i'm sorry if i'm giving the mods extra work but even jesus didn't suffer fools gladly & last time i looked i'm not him

> strongly suggest you stfu

No, but thanks for your suggestion.

Tesha

We are not dead yet and are trying to fight for our lives at this very moment... and many of us have NO PLACE TO GO and NO MONEY!

I am only interested in compassionate Americans who WANT TO HELP, not those who tell us, as our mother is dying right before our very eyes, that "they she is not worth it."

Go gawk over dead bodies elsewhere.

:puke:

You want my tax dollars. In fact, you want billions and billions of tax
dollars from all of us. I'm simply saying "No, not a good investment."

You argue we need a Mississippi River port; we already have quite a
few besides NOLA, and expanding some of the others might be a much
safer long-term investment than rebuilding NOLA.

Look, I'm sorry things didn't work out for you. I was firmly on the
side of spending money *AHEAD OF THE FACT* to shore up your levee
system, but it appears that your politicians just couldn't carry
the day. But now, after billions and billions of dollars worth of
destruction, the equation is now quite different.

Grover Nordquist and his ilk have been very effective at incapacitating
the government (at all levels, Federal, state, and local) and America
has a very limited capacity to act. We need to carefully focus our
attentions and there are simply better places to invest than in
rebuilding a city that will be swept away again in the not-too-
distant future.

Tesha

Too bad you can't be bothered to do a bit of research.

It is evident that you agree with Grover Norquist. What are you doing here?

Not only is she completely ignorant about what happened concerning CUTS IN FEDERAL FUNDING by the Bush administration in 2004, etc., but she apparently enjoys hurting people.

That is why she is posting in this thread: she came here to urinate on the dying.

Sad.

Tesha

I can't remember the rest, I fucking hate Shirley Temple...Baby Dumpling was FAR superior in my humble opinion.

But, yeah, a trip on The Good Ship Lollipop eh?

Where are your figures on the costs of restoring the wetlands & fixing the levees? Anyone who talks about Force 6 Hurricanes has a lot to learn.

Why don't you go start your own thread instead of hijacking mine? You can explain to everyone in YOUR THREAD how and why it is a waste of MONEY to save New Orleans?

Go ahead start your own thread! I DARE YOU!

See, that's the problem with free and open debate in a democratic
society; you run the risk that someone will actually disagree with
you and, even worse, not be willing to concede just because you
start hurling names at them like "snarky".

Then there's the problem that folks may even come up with some
uncomfortable facts that refute positions you (and others on your
side) may hold. For example, the uncomfortable fact that rebuild-
ing the levees is a very small part of the total cost of rebuilding
New Orleans on-site.

But that's life in a democratic society, especially one with rather
limited resources where every desire can't be fulfilled.

Tesha

> It is evident that you agree with Grover Norquist. What are you doing here?

Nope, I don't *AGREE* with Grover Norquist but I do accept the fact
that he and his minions *HAVE* managed to nearly drown our government
in that proverbial bathtub of his.

And if you asked me where we ought to be spending our tax dollars,
I just think (for example) that *NATIONAL HEALTH CARE* might, just
*MIGHT* be a better expenditure than rebuilding NOLA. It would almost
certainly benefit more former New Orleans citizens more than the
current plans to turn their former homes into a gentrified,
Disneyfied theme-park version of what NOLA used to be.

Another possible expenditure might be to start rebuilding our
entire national infrastructure for the end of the age of cheap
energy (and, specifically oil). For example, maybe we should
fully fund research into fusion energy and start rebuilding
our railroads. This, again, will help far more people far more
than rebuilding NOLA. (BTW, if we fail at the task of preparing
for the end of cheap energy many times more people will die
than died in Hurricane Katrina.)

I suspect we could easily think of dozens of priorities that
ought to be ranked higher than rebuilding NOLA.

Tesha

It will be wasted in Iraq. And we've got to ensure the rich keep their tax cuts.

You're quite at home in Norquist's stagnant little world. How dare you blithely decide to abandon an American city when you know damn well that the money would NOT be spent on any of the other worthy projects?

Then don't bother.

You have my prayers for safe return. NO will return. Wish I had money to send but I do have faith that New Orleans will revive, return, and prove the naysayers wrong.

Can't understand why Cat 5 levees are being debated? How stupid is that?

I read the National Geographic article. It took decades to sink the wetlands that it took the river centuries to create.

Shame on this country if we don't protect and rebuild this beautiful and historical part of us.

thanks

I am so thorougly disgusted at how nobody cares about the hurricane damage here anymore. It's off the back burner for our leaders, who don't want to spend a penny on a state they consider to be unimportant. As a resident of Louisiana, I strongly encourage all of you to let your elected leaders know that New Orleans and Louisiana is just as important as the Big Dig or the war.

Keith’s Barbeque Central

Why should I have to pay for stupid shit for a city that will loose its land to the ocean?

In phx are ya, going to have for Level 5 fire protection?

How about Level 5 Volcano prevention for Mt. Saint Helens?

:wtf:

Because I'm a sweetie like that ya see.

What I need is hot water. I'm told that we won't have any until the end of February... it will be a very cold Winter in New Orleans this year with no hot water! :scared:

No hot water until February...yet giving fucking BILLIONS to fucking Iraq...fucking bastards.

:cry:

:D :puke:

I can't remember the last time I took less than two showers in a day. In the Summer I usually take four, but you know how hot and humid it gets in July and August in New Orleans! :grr:

*snif snif* I smell bat dung mixed with cat vomit and festering human flesh from between the legs of a... Call the Witchsmeller Pursuivant!!! :o

:evilgrin:

If you get any more riper...you'll probably like...explode or something ;)

In the sultry and humid weather I can take up to four showers too.

These pig fuckers are inhuman, falling over themselves to fix Iraq...and they won't even give their own citizens hot water.

That picture you have there :scared:

Why should I have to pay for stupid shit for a city that will loose its land to the ocean?

In phx are ya, going to have for Level 5 fire protection?

How about Level 5 Volcano prevention for Mt. Saint Helens?

If the wetlands are restored AND the levees repaired, the incidence of a Cat 5 destroying NO again is lessened - get it? The wetlands absorb and weaken a storm as it passes over - keeps the storm surge at a distance rather than on someone's front stoop.

Happy 2 sign and passed it along to my list.

But willful ignorance is worse.

And the deaths of Iraqis and Americans. You're paying for tax cuts for the very rich. You're paying to support blood-sucking corporations. But that's just fine with you.

Please--where's your home? What part of the country is 100% safe?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Signed and making phone calls to representatives.

I'm so sorry you've had to endure this tragedy. After watching the congressional hearings chaired by Cynthia McKinney, I can't imagine the magnitude of your pain.

:grouphug:

He'd say America can't win against these insurgent hurricanes.

Katrina did not destroy New Orleans, the levees that were breeched and the refusal of your federal government to help is what murdered New Orleans and her citizens.

What about Alabama & Mississippi? Are you in favor of "your" tax dollars going there?

In areas that should be rebuild using common sense.

1. If the city is going to be flooded again from another hurricane next season why bother?
The say it would take 10 years to build those leeves, most likely going to get hit again.

2. We know 1/2 of the money gets funnelled to front companies and war profiteers corporations.

Its kind of like building a trailor park next to Yellowstone knowing its going to blow its stack eventually.

Therefore, a trailer park would be an economically sound development. Not aesthetically sound, of course.

Read up on wetlands restoration & levee building. Some very good plans were underfunded or canceled by the Republicans. They could have helped last September. And they can help in the future.

in other words you have no facts on offer just hate and negativity to spread, kick 'em when they're down, what a man

it has been 40 years bet. betsy & katrina, hurricanes don't hit in the same spot yr after yr, esp. the same INLAND spot

kobe, japan took 10 yrs to rebuild, yet an earthquake could hit at any time, you get no warning, i don't see the japanese just throwing up their hands & going oh well, oh woe, let's just give up and cry

it makes you wonder abt a certain element in american society & how it has lost backbone, i hear this from the freeps, well you expect them to be naysayers & losers, you don't expect it from progressives who are supposed to have a positive outlook & be about improving this world not shitting on it

if you have nothing worthwhile to contribute, try this -- JUST DON'T POST UNTIL YOU DO

The chaneling of the river has moved the silt build up from the coast line (where it would protect NO) to the river banks (where it places NO in greater danger. Should we talk about the wetlands? Are you even vaguely familar with the subject??

The engineering/building of the levee system in NO has been of great debate for quite a while. The federal government has refused to rebuild those levees for years. The levee failure(s) were not a result of Katrina, but in fact need to be rebuilt in a manner that would ensure the safety of the ecconomically disadvataged neighborhoods as well as the rich (or is that what you object to?---I strongly suspect that this is what has your panties in a bunch)



I

This is about letting one of the greatest cities in America die because there are too many Americans who DO NOT GIVE A DAMN, and say "it's not worth it," etc. If you are one of those people, then don't post here any more. I am only interested in Americans who are willing to help, not those who play petty politics, making silly, unhelpful comments, or like just gawking over dead bodies while telling the survivors "you aren't worth it."

Everything our government(s) *DO* is about politics.

We have many competing needs, very limited resources, and you're asking
for a big share of those resources. Why would you *NOT* expect spirited
debate? Why would you not expect *SOMEONE* to weigh the countervaling
costs and benefits of your request?

Tesha

Greetings to all the other fine folks who've helped.

And a quick, vulgar gesture to the few, the proud, the overdue for a tombstone....

i would also ask people who can afford it to fax or phone their senators, it is more effective than email

it does no good if only people on the gulf coast complain, our representatives already know there's a problem, we need people from other states putting pressure on the other senators and congresscritters

sorry to sound like a broken record but lives and the economic future of the northern gulf and eventually the usa which depends upon our resources is at stake

Have you placed this in the activist forum ?

thanks to all the good people who are doing something useful

The demand for coastal wetlands restoration/protection will also benefit wildlife habitat (and the fisheries).

For my baby Swamp!

And a big :hug: for you cat_girl25!

took the action SR and sending along to others.
peace

:kick:

I demand category 5 protection for New Orleans and Southern Louisiana with you.

Sonia

Hi Swamp'r!

By the way, I had this crazy idea "day dream" today that some Dutch engineering firm would come forward and say that for an established amount of money (far less than what some of the big fat greedy no bid winning contractors like the Halliburtons have been getting) would say that they would design and build an elaborate levee system and that they would hire NO residents for the work (in addition to their teams of engineers). They would throw out a challenge that would expose to the American public the corruptness of the folks in Washington, because they would show that for a reasonable amount of money, they could do an extensive re-building project that would provide state of the art levee systems to New Orleans, use NO residents and be able to withstand future CAT 5 storms....all for far less than some of the big $$$ no-bid projects that keep getting awarded and never stopped.

:hi:

The Rijkswaterstaat (RWS) reached a cooperation agreement with the Army Corps of Engineers last year. And they sent in teams to deal with the immediate post-flood damage.

The RWS has four central mandates from the Dutch government: to protect the Netherlands against flooding; to provide adequate clean water for all its 16.5 million residents; to construct and manage all roads and waterways, including canals, in the country; and to guarantee a safe flow of water.

"They are looking for the safest, most ecologically friendly ways as well as optimal use of existing infrastructure in a sustainable way," said Stephan Gruijters of the Netherlands Institute for the Application of Science. The institute is a world-renowned civil engineering organization overseeing the quality of life in the Netherlands and has vast experience in water engineering.

The institute, with more than five thousand employees, also is active in defense, safety, industrial expertise and technology, water works, soil and sub-soil information, and communication technologies. "We have the task to innovate in all these areas for the survival of our country and our planet," Gruijters said in an interview. "We try to and succeed in applying our scientific knowledge to the daily life of our citizens. We have become a reliable source of knowledge for many countries, social institutions, and companies worldwide, closing the gap between water hazards and living well and in peace. Developing and innovating the quality of life is what we do worldwide."

www.worldandi.com/subscribers/feature_detail.asp?num=24781

Edited to add: This article goes into the cost.

The cost of any significant upgrade, however, will be enormous - more than the $21 billion spent on New York City after 9/11, but less than the $57 billion to be spent on highway construction and maintenance in the recent federal transportation bill. Washington and state governments spend about $160 billion a year on infrastructure, including roads, transit and utilities, according to the American Society of Civil Engineers.

Given a large federal deficit and other demands for money, however, there is still no indication that Washington will pay the $32 billion or more for full protection. Scott Angelle, secretary of the Department of Natural Resources for Louisiana, said that fortifying New Orleans to the highest level could be accomplished by giving Louisiana a larger share than it now receives from the proceeds of oil rigs that are farther off the coast than the three-mile territorial limit. The federal government takes in about $5 billion a year from those wells.

www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/29/news/orleans.php

Comparing the cost to general infrastructure expenses puts things into perspective. In fact, much of the whole country's infrastructure needs updating.

For even more perspective, check out the Cost of the Iraq War. www.projectbillboard.org/

$218 Billion & Growing....

:hi: Thanks for helping! It's nice to know that some Americans still care. Unfortunately, there are a few rotten apples in the barrel spoiling the effort. How they can sleep at night I do not know.

It's hard to believe those parasites are ignoring the Gulf Coast while taking another pay raise, asking for another tax cut, gutting social programs and will be asking for $100 BILLION to rebuild IRAQ!!!!!! We have U.S. citizens living in tents during the WINTER, people are hungry and hurting and those bastards give priority to Iraq? I don't think so.:grr: PROTECT NEW ORLEANS!

I am so glad you are at least trying to help, especially when there are others actively trying to hurt our efforts to survive... even in this thread. If the military stopped for just a few days of making war in Iraq (5 billion per day), that would be enough money to replace our entire levee system... add a day or two more, then every student loan could be paid and we'd all have universal health care.

Sign the letter please.

:kick:

and kicked back to the top. I hope you are able to find some peace this holiday season.

I heard today that the Netherlands have built their dikes and levees to withstand the one storm that will come in a thousand years. Yet some wag says, we in the USA can't. I say we can do as well and we must.

:kick:

:hug:

Hang in the baby!

:kick:

This one is for you Swamp Rat!!!:kick:

Have been off and online all day so I missed this earlier.

happy to help

:hug:

:kick:

:kick: