I believe the people in my country will learn

that taking a life doesn't restore a life.

I believe that Americans value justice over vengeance.

I believe that my fellow citizens so value human life that they will join the international community that has repudiated the execution of their fellow men.

I believe in the good will and the intelligence of the American people to stop state sponsored murder, kidnapping, rendition and torture.

I believe my people recoil from these inhumane measures and I believe we can find a better way to ensure our communities' safety just as long ago, our forebearers restrained themselves from cannibalism.

I believe that the American people are awakening after a long trauma, and I believe they will take back their government and make "America" once again respected in the world.

I believe.

:(

I hope to believe again!

:pals:

Now help me rate this sucker up.

:hug:

:hug:

:cry:


This is how we move forward. Thank you.

:kick:

:hug:

:cry:

:grouphug:

Even at DU people called for this guy to cook, fry, someone said "snuff him". America does not collectively want to join the international community at all anymore.

Invest in the best we can do.

We can do better.

:hug:

Discussions have to be re-framed to be effective. Loaded words have to be replaced with logic. Until that happens, we will still be mired int he culture wars, where words have value outside of their actual meaning.

Nothing will ever change.

We can do it again.

Nights like these it seems like nothing will ever change.

We can change them. On edit: We will change them.

I believe.

Never again. We can have the death penalty but not nationalized health care.

is my friend. I can't imagine what this is costing him. :cry:

We can do better than this. We have to do better than this.

:(

so that we no longer have to kill our fellow men to allay that fear.

I believe.

none of us lives in the world we dream of-- not the Socialists, the Libertarians, the NeoCons, the Liberals, the Atheists, the Religious...

All of us run the risk of forgetting how we must live together and compromise many of our ideals or we will all be doomed in the bloodbath. It's frustrating for all of us on any side of any issue when we don't get our way, and sometimes we can't get over ourselves when we do.

I consider it a good day when we take two steps forward and only one backward.

reinstating it has done NOTHING to make our society better.

killing or stop it.

I believe we can remeber that lesson.

that somebody posted the other day, the pendulum has been swinging against the DP for a while now. I think we can take heart in that.
Kind of scary that reading some posts here might lead one to question that. But I think it is true.

a congregation of reactions.

But, our decisions are another matter. Our thoughtfulness is another matter.

peace

Now, help me rate this thought up, Swampy.

:hug:

done :)

edit: Please also my thread in GD "Demand category 5 protection for New Orleans and Southern Louisiana!!!"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5586192

in the normal, decent morning. :silly:

I do too. Even in the darkest times, and these are not the darkest times, believe it or not.

Sometimes it seems like it gets too depressing to deal with, but without hope, we are lost. We have been through these times before and come out the better for it-- the pendulum always swings back.

Is that right? :silly:

It's often trite and simplistic, but a bumper sticker gave me a great deal of clarity on this subject recently. It said (and this may be a drive-by paraphrasing here):

Why do we kill people who kill people in order to prove we don't kill people?

It sounds quite recursive when you think of it that way. Recursive, regressive, primitive.

I don't want my government in the business of murder. It's time for us all to evolve past the need for vengence masquerading as justice.

I believe that my government has no business killing citizens but should be about the business of the welfare of the citizenry. I believe.

funny how the posts about being pro-death penalty never seem to be inspiring or uplifting. They are just sad and depressing.

because we don't have a better solution.

And, I believe we can find one.

:toast:

It's been a long night.

Blessed are the Peacemakers!


:kick:

:hi:

But I'm depressed...seeing over the past few days how many people even on DU support the death penalty. I never posted a reply to any of the threads, but I e-mailed Gov. Schwartzenegger twice, for all the good it did. I want to believe we will evolve past this barbarity and join the ranks of civilized nations, but I don't think it will happen any time soon.

This dark night needs all the light we can generate.

:hug:

I believe that enough people who can see the consequences of this terrible policy will change it. I believe.

But then I guess it's not easy for you either.

Okay. I believe the better angels of human nature will come out on top...eventually.

:silly:

and even if it did, Tookie's one miserable life couldn't make up for the four he blew apart with a shotgun, or the hundreds, if not thousands, his followers have been complicit in murdering.

Let's review:

1. He refused to ever apology or accept responsibility for his crimes.
2. He refused to ever repudiate the Crips or his gang affiliation.
3. He refused to ever assist the police in acting against the Crips to stop the carnage he helped start.

He got a hell of a lot better than he deserved.

:hi:

in the last five years, we can remain a reality based community that acknowledges, the death penalty has never kept us safer. I believe in the diligence of this community and in its honesty, and I believe diligence and honesty always trumps fear and bitterness in the end.

I believe.

:yourock:

:grouphug:

consider it done! :hug:

:)

thank you for being a voice of sanity in an insane world...

Let's keep our helmets handy.

:)

I've jumped in my foxhole a couple of times.

are waking up, becoming aware that casual violence over there always comes home over here, cruelly and terribly. I believe that we are beginning to remember that violence is like a web that traps us, our parents and our children.

I believe that the American people will decide to stop the death done in their name.

I believe in our people, in their integrity, in their collective wisdom, in their liveliness.

If only I had your eloquent gift of brevity. . . : )

This post is lovely. Thank you so-o-o much, many blessings to you.

I'm always thrilled to see absolute spiritual truths posted here.

As for my aforementioned lack of brevity, my writing is now up to 43 pages and is now morphing into a book.

Now I have most astonishingly come up with 6 more simple, freely available spiritual tricks, in addition to the original "8 tricks" to heal all our souls, our kids, and thusly our nation and world.

The original "8 tricks can be found here. . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5444610

Anyone can PM me they wish to see the others.

nam myoho renge kyo

Thanks again.

lol!

encourage-er
May you never lose this gift- and help us all to learn to drink from your well.

Thank you yet again Stefexpat not only for not giving in, or giving up- but going beyond and continuing to plant seeds of hope, not defeat.

i love your heart-
and your voice.

:hug:

blu

Sucker.

(On Edit: "...we learn from history that man can never learn anything from history" -- GB Shaw paraphrasing Hegel)

:hi:

So maybe I'm a tad jaded.

:shrug:

:hi:

but I'm afraid I won't live to see it.

and remember what a goofy category "impossible" is.

I believe you will.

There is always a little hope left, but ... the last couple decades have shown me that Americans as a whole don't care much about anything that doesn't directly affect them, and, specifically, impact their pocketbooks in a way they can understand. E.g. corporate pillage affects them, but it's too complicated and hidden from view that they don't get outraged. Gas prices, yes, they get.

I want to believe what you believe, Pat, but ... right now I just can't.

she has ever seen.

"There were huge numbers of people, multigenerational, a very diverse crowd."

:hi:

I get glimmers of hope, but then our side doesn't seem to be able to translate it into change at the governmental level.

I appreciate your optimism. Maybe on a better day I can join you in it. :hi:

"Redemption is tailor-made for the wretched." -- Tookie Williams.

:hi:

make it so.
:dem:

Here's to a better tomarrow :toast:

we were most at risk of despair.

I believe that the collective will of people of conscience can change the world.

:toast:

that said that states with the death penalty have the highest rate of violent crime. It was the subject of a long discussion in one of our classes; why does a death penalty cause an increase in homicides? Are murderers really just self loathing suicidal loons who are too cowardly to off themselves, so they try to get the state to do it? Why do states continue to use the death penalty when it has the opposite effect on deterring violent crime? (Probably because the people love vengeance).I admit that sometimes I feel that someone is so vile that they don't deserve to live,but I won't support the death penalty because of it's effect on the crime rate (plus there's no doubt in my mind that innocent people are sometimes killed because of a corrupt system).

i know there's likely no link, but this info would be good to have on hand for purposes of refuting those who cannot believe without "proof".

I'm sure that a through Google search might turn up something that is at least similar.

anthopology textbook when I read about it. Late eighties is about right -- that's when I was taking that set of courses.

if a person is pro-DP, then it's for emotional reasons, not logical ones.

all emotion and no facts?

this puts the lie to that.

Murder hurts us all.

Tookie's death did nothing. (Furthermore, he did his time. That was double punishment.)

There is a better way. He could have served as a LIVING example for all who would have become what he was at one time.

For every execution of a "Tookie", two murderers are born. I mean, there is a devil. We play in to his hands whenever we give in to our lowest desires. Exectutions are just like the war on terror- failures that only serve to strengthen the problem.

Every execution gives birth to another to be executed.

Every exectuion causes grief where there was none. And causes hatred and desire for revenge.

We will learn, or we will learn the hard way.

Thank you for being a caring person. Beth, peace be with you.

Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for delivering a positive message in the dark and deep night, sfexpat2000.

but then read the comments even here, and find that people are willing to support killing in the name of "justice" -- no...not just support it...but celebrate it!

there may be hope but i tell you i am getting downright weary.

but thanks for posting this very positive statement. may you and yours be safe, well and happy this solstice season.

It's more a collection of people who can't stand Bush.

No wonder we're tired, fighting so much on so many fronts. But, I was very heartened this morning hearing Angela Davis talk about the vigil last night. There were thousands of people where there used to be tens. There is forward movement. We will be okay.

... and will continue trying to convert those beliefs into reality.


Peace.

and so it is.

(i sure hope so anyway!) i try to believe but find it increasingly difficult. thank you for YOUR belief. be well, you and yours.

Even though I believe that Tookie did it & wasn't sorry, it still bothered me that he was executed. I never really had strong opinions one way or the other about the death penalty, but I read an article in the paper yesterday about this lawyer named John Yoo who thinks it's perfectly okay to torture people. This made me think that in this country, we are really no better than Tookie because of the things this country is standing for. So do we really have a right to kill him? Do we even have a right to tell other countries off when they violate human rights? I think we are standing on very shaky moral ground these days, & it really bothers me.

Tammy

and who we can be again.

:hi:

One can hope that one day, however. BushCo are certainly giving us a good case for human values over corporate and egomania. And there's more to come!

of all the things we need to mind, to recognize and to rectify.

And, you might have noticed, we are getting it done.

I believe that George W. Bush is uniting the real patriots, the real heart and soul of this country.

manual, regarding threats to liberty.

:pals:

Recommended!

:)