who else has tears in their eyes?

not just for a man, but for humanity?

these last years have been terrible
America has become so entangled with death and the "righteous" taking of lives. 100,000 in Iraq, reaching the landmark 1000+ executions. What has happened to us? What are we teaching our children?

:cry:

:cry:

But I'm very angry at America.

..plus, i'm sure you'll get torched for this one..

If it were he in the death chamber? Honest question. Would people call for his clemency?

Because killing him, taking his life, won't do anything to bring back those who died by his hands. It's just more needless taking of life, and I am not so proud to think I can judge who gets to live and who gets to die. Manson may be proud enough to do so, but I'm not because I think I'm better than that. That's not me, and I'm not going to do God's job that God is perfectly capable of doing alone. I vowed I would try my damndest to avoid letting wrath do the speaking for me that I should be doing with reason instead.

I just don't want to think some folks are elevating Tookie bacause they like what he did with his life. The unlovely should also be cried for, you know? Without romance.

And Manson is about as unlovely as it gets.

I bring up my position on the death penalty whenever I'm asked, and I fear that they may bait me into whether, for instance, I would call for clemency for somebody like Hitler or Stalin, especially with the sheer amount of bloodshed committed by those two. I state my position, and I get raked over the coals for being "weak" on their crimes when I am nothing of the sort.

is that these arguments are often framed in a way that implies you approve of the crimes these people committed!
It can be very disingenuous and insulting.

But there are many who die who deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too quick to deal out death in judgment."

I'm sorry, I'm waxing philosophical tonight. I don't really care about Tookie Williams individually--can any good thing he's done since outweigh the lives he took? To me, no. But any good he's done is still a good nonetheless, and killing him won't bring them back either.

I feel like that's our problem at heart. We have the capability to kill but not to restore life that's lost. We kill in revenge as if that will ease the pain. We kill in judgement as if that somehow rights a balance.

I just don't think that's the answer. We have a sick society that produces so many killers in the first place. The responsibility lies with them first and foremost, but what makes it so easy, encourages it so much?

But in my heart, and my soul.

Wow, maybe there IS no 'closure'! This execution doesn't heal a thing for you!

Living through pain, yet hopefully finally finding closure.

If a loved one is murdered how can there ever be true "closure"? This is revenge, this will not make their loved ones come back.

I don't begrudge the victim's families their pain and all their other feelings.

Fortunately this was in a non-death penalty state. A friend's son was killed and I am glad she did not have to go to every appeal hearing, every review hearing, and that her son's murderer is in jail never to know freedom again.

"Not over their deaths"?
That's the thing; people in DU cryin' and a-weepin' over TW, but the victims? I haven't read too much bemoaning THEIR brutally-truncated lives.

I get your point---why execute, if such act doesn't deter, assuage, redeem, rehabilitate, or salve the savage breast---but your casual allusion to the murdered is, to me, INTERESTING.

As for "closure"---That's one of the stupidest, most anti-human concepts ever to come down the cultural pike.

and I am not ashamed to admit it.

:( So sad. :cry: I'm listening to live coverage from KPFA and it's very moving. So many high emotions. You can listen here: http://kpfa.org/

I'm listening to this lady playing the drums right now and the emotions I'm feeling right now are indescribable.

frankly. I understand intellectually that all should be equal, that death and killing are all the same.

But I can eke out more tears for those who never had a chance to commit a crime, and therefore repent.

How about a tear for those men out of a thousand who also were executed. Was there such an uproar for them? Would we cry for Charles Manson? Or is it just that Tookie touches the heart strings with his story.

I find the whole spectre grim and barbaric.

I edited my post for clarity

The heart is feeling mighty heavy, yet again :-(
:grouphug:My one small comfort is knowing I'm not alone in my sorrow:grouphug:

Haven't been able to hold it back since 11:00 pm.

fc and I are listening to Bernie on KGO.

I haven't cried like this since the 2004 sElection. Albeit for a different reason. Or maybe not a different reason at all, come to think of it.

Oh God, I hate this. I absolutely fucking hate it.

This is NOT in MY name.

God damn it all.

So much death this year. :cry: It's so hard to enjoy the holiday season. I've never been attached to a story like this before.

It hurts me to know that a man is being killed tonight...and it feels like there is nothing in the universe that notices, or cares, that I am hurt, or that he is dyng in pain; and so it will be also when I am dying. :cry:

Tucker

Live for now, AG, live. Bless you. :hug:

I hope all is well with you soon. Find peace. :hug:

sending some your way

http://kpfa.org/ It's a great coverage. Very moving and beautiful and peaceful.

all of ya :grouphug:

we shall overcome

It is obvious to this Aussie that some here at DU wish for the U.S. image to the world to be one of murderous, cold hearted thugs! And beieve me, a lot of foreigners have that image of the U.S. right now.

:-(

& I can't blame them for that.

At 8:30PM, which I never do. It was surprisingly overwhelming, the way I felt about it. To me, it makes no sense to kill the killer; it doesn't bring back those he killed. I had a close family member murdered, and finding and executing his killer wouldn't take away the memory of my mother and her brother sobbing together because his son was dead. He was gone, and anything else was irrelevant, including executing his killer. I wish people could think about that.

Tears in my soul. Not really for TW, but for the world I live in, where murder is sanctioned for some, if their cause is "righteous" according to TPTB.

TW is only the latest in a line of shame.

And speaking of shame, I'm having trouble getting past the governor's comments re: not granting clemency.

lighter every day for having suffered & for having maintained your humanity. For the whole rest of your life - you will be someone who doesn't sweat the small stuff and knows deeply what is important. You will be stronger. And all those around you will be stronger too.

Pace yourself. We need all people ready and available to empathize and work & fight during the 2006 elections. You are only human. If it gets to be too much - pick only a few issues to follow. Plant a garden. Mentor a kid.