If life imprisonment is truly a harsher punishment than the death penalty

and if Mr. Williams is innocent as many of his supporters claim, then justice was served by his execution. If his sentence had been commuted to life in prison, an 'innocent' man would have been forced to endure this harsher punishment.

is that life in prison is harsher on those who have done nothing with themselves, and all they have time to do is sit there thinking about what they did. if he didn't do it, then he doesn't have the mental punishment of sitting there, and he was doing something with his time.


again, i am not taking a side, merely describing what could be said here, just because i happened to be around early for once.

enough for the Criminals running the country.

argument is bunk

It has been asked - and no doubt will continue to be asked on DU - why people fight against the DP if it is truly the "easy" way out. First, not all do fight against it. Second, an unknown 'hell' is much less wanted than a known 'hell'. None of us truly know what will happen after death. Do the lights just go out? Are we placed before some Great Creator for judgement? Are we put in limbo, awaiting some next phase?

From an economic point of view, the DP is not the easy way out. Studies have been done which show all the build up to putting someone to death costs much more than life in prison.

From a societal point of view, the DP is not the easy way out. Studies have shown that many truly innocent people have sat on death row and/or been executed by the state. Families have found that after waiting years to see their loved one's agressor put to death, revenge is no longer sweet. They are often hurled back into the grief and sadness of the event and are further traumatized by the other person being put to death.

We refer to our prisons as the Department of Corrections. So, if we toss religion aside for a moment, exactly what 'correction' is involved in putting a person to death? Does it right the universe? Does it bring back those who have already died? Does it bring peace to the family? Unless we believe that we are sending that person to be judged by a god of some sort, there is no 'correction' in death.

.....on the prison and the prisoner. The fact that some people adapt to prison life much more readily than life on the outside seems to elude a lot of you folks. Folks who know everything, and have the last word on what is good, and right and moral. Just like fundies.

But I'm tired of talking about it.

Not yet at least.

see and voice, that while a position,-belief-value-standard may be included in a 'religious doctrine' that doesn't make it void, if you don't embrace religion.

As i teach my kids, and attempt to demonstrate in my life if someone does something to you that you are hurt by, or don't like, or don't think is 'right'- then doing the same thing back to them, and saying 'Yeah, but HE did it first' is not only wrong- it's pretty stupid.

2 wrongs never make one right.

All this discussion of the pros and cons of the death penalty just cloud the one important point: Killing is wrong.

"12 "Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death. 13 However, if he does not do it intentionally, but God lets it happen, he is to flee to a place I will designate. 14 But if a man schemes and kills another man deliberately, take him away from my altar and put him to death.
15 "Anyone who attacks his father or his mother must be put to death.

16 "Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death.

17 "Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death."

Exodus 21:12-15

a person's only reason for opposing the death penalty is that they believe life in prison is a harsher punishment. If Mr Williams is innocent then no punishment, whether it be life in prison or execution, is justice. If he is not innocent then we are forced to look at a number of issues surrounding the death penalty and it's comparison to other punishments is only a small part of the picture.

if he is indeed found to be innocent.

An innocent man who is executed, well...

They only tired to have the sentence commuted to life in prison.

I've been staying out of it, so there's a lot I don't know.

Williams has always maintain he is innocent of the crimes that put him of death row and his lawyers sought his release numerous times. It is only after all of his other appeals were exhausted that he sought to have his sentence commuted to life in prison.

First I think the 'life in prison is harsher' argument is weak.

The death penalty is wrong for the same reasons that murder itself is a crime of a different order than other crimes. Both state executions and murder are unredeemable.

If Mr. Williams were discovered to be innocent this morning he could not be let out of his death. On the other hand had he been granted clemency by that nazi fruitcake he could be released from jail and compensated for the 25 years of wrongful imprisonment. That, in your hypothetical, would be justice better served.

I'd try to make a thoughtful answer to the posted question but you lost me at "if Mr. Williams is innocent as many of his supporters claim, then justice was served by his execution."

It is about the dark stain that the injustice of the DP leaves on our nation. When the state is granted the ability to kill people, there is blood on all of our hands. You may be able to live with that burden, but many of us can't, especially when the state's victim is later proven innocent.

by killing an innocent man- your logic, is faulty-

One can never be brought back from death. One CAN be freed from false imprisonment.
If he wasn't 'innocent'- then the concequence of living out his natural life in a confined environment is far more appropriate. He was using his time 'in confinement' wisely- and not only having time to reflect upon some of his life's choices, but to share those reflections and enlightenments with others who might not have to learn the 'hard way'- saving others the pain and suffering he AND his victims had to experience.

And we CHOSE- we, the supposedly 'moral' - 'law abiding' - 'good guys' CHOSE to destroy the only good that could ever come out of the bad.

Pitiful lot we are- as a 'herd'- thank god for the stubborn dissenters, who aren't afraid to march to the beat of a different drum. May their voices never be silenced- may their energy always be replenished- may they never lose that spark of hope- even in these dark dark days- my spark is dim, but not dead yet.

Not surprised to hear it from you, of course.

68% of Californians support the death penalty. Do you actually believe that 68% of Californians are conservative? :shrug:

In comparison to the rest of the world, at any rate.

I think the OP is messing with us again. Not unusual.