How many people did Tookie really help?

If you basis of support for Tookie is in his help of others through his books, does it bother you that a quick review of "Book Scan" shows the Tookie series of books have hardly been sold.

His top seller, "Gangs and Violence" has sold 330 books. Another book "Gangs and Wanting to Belong" sold exactly two copies!

No one is reading his books, least of all his two sons, one of whom is serving time in San Quentin. The other was just arrested on charges of aggravated rape.

Sorry, but when I hear that that he has received 150,000 letter from people saying that he his books changed their life...well, lets just say that there must be a great letter writing campaign going on some where.

Tookie didn't help people. He killed them.

Now, if you are against the DP for anyone...then I support you 100%, I may not agree with you, but I support you. However, if you are against the use of the DP against Tookie because he has changed his life and helped people? Well...No.

:puke:

Some people on here treated Tookie as if he was nothing more than a gang banger on his way to meet his maker.

I think he was a thug who got what he deserved, but I also think that it's time to move on. A lot of people on the other side of the issue here are probably going to perceive this as rubbing it in.

So what about kids in gangs he's helped? You should've listened to the live coverage of younger people speaking out. This one kid spoke and told how Tookie helped to keep him out of gangs. One person is enough to help. Please go dance on his grave somewhere else.

However, I am NOT dancing on the man's grave. I am saying that his books really didn't help people. He didn't even help his OWN CHILDREN!!!!

I guess I am wondering how much help he could offer from prison.

saves the world entire.

I've stayed out of the Tookie death penalty discussions because I abhor the very idea of state-sanctioned killing.

But this posted question really made me gasp.

How many would be enough?

This sort of reminds me of a carpool buddy I used to know: on the ride home from work each day, he would add up his "wins and losses"-- finding a choice parking place was a win; getting a phone call just before his lunch break was a loss.

Sometimes I wonder if he's still counting day after day after day... and what for?

Touching the life of one person in a positive way makes much more sense to me.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I'm not talking about this case necessarily. I just wonder what you mean when there are 6.3 billion of us.

Each individual touches many others during a lifetime.

If even one "other" is positively influenced (even by a convicted killer),

hope for a better future (for all mankind) continues.

Millions

Sorry, their testimony is unavailable.

but I can understand your point. I would have absolutely not executed this man, nor would I execute anyone ever. I am happy that he had turned his life around, and even if he reached only one person than that is a lot. Frankly though I would have liked to see him alive, the only way to help to reverse the huge, and I mean tremendous amount of damage he has done to the world is to give him a platform to speak on. It is unrealistic to think potential gang members would be stopping to reflect upon the sentiments of his book before deciding to join a gang. The problem is the gang culture, and I would venture to say that for many young people they do not make a conscious decision to join a gang, but rather it is an almost predetermined part of their life. Mr. Williams, with his permission, could have been utilized on a national scale to bring awareness to this gang culture, he could have been the face of Laura Bush's war on gangs. Young people invariably watch TV, I believe a huge campaign with Mr. Williams as the star would have reached many people. If orchestrated properly, his knowledge and experience could have impacted many more lives for good than it did for evil...Am I being to naive?

Hi,

That was a good post, you make some great points. As far as his "his knowledge and experience" helping others...well, he COULD have helped other with his knowledge of the inner working of the Crips gang and choose not to. He could have given up the names of MANY murderers, and choose not to. He could have been non-violent in jail and choose not to.

I think it would have been great had Tookie done what you say 'could' have happened. He had YEARS to do this before his execution. He choose not to. He was not arrested yesterday, he was arrested years ago. 100s of murders and criminal activity could have been stopped with the information that he possesed. He choose not to help.

Yes, the man was a thug, yes he murdered people. But still and all, no matter who the person is, Tookie or some relative unknown, the state should not be granted the power to kill anyone. It is a horrible move ethically, it doesn't prevent a damn thing, it is more expensive to implement, and in a number of cases the state kills the wrong person.

All that this particular case does is ask the question "What does a black man have to do in this country to receive clemancy?" Tookie wrote anti-gang books, repudiated and actively worked against his former gang lifestyle(with some measure of success), was nominated for the Nobel Peace Price, yet he was executed anyway. The obvious and inherent racism in our justice system makes you wonder if Tookie had happened to be white, do you think he would have been granted clemancy? Personally, I think he would have.

But again, it doesn't matter who the person is, the state should not be granted the ability to murder somebody in cold blood. It is a dark stain on our country.

on the NYT bestseller list in order to be considered of any value. If that's the case then we should all believe that Harry Potter series is one of the best out there and disregard a lot of less published books. I honestly didn't fully research his case but my reasons for being against the DP are mainly that I think we law abiding citzens should hold ourselves up to a higher standard than people who murder. As for his books, if they prevented one single person from turning to a life of crime then that's enough to justify his books. I would have thought that him being dead was enough satisfaction for all the pro DP people. Apparently I was wrong.

LOL...his Best selling book sold 330 copies!!!!! LOL

I also have to say, the anti-DP people will move me a lot more if they stick to the argument that the DP is not right regardless instead of resorting to the attempts at gaining sympathy for a man like Stanley Williams.

The base argument is far more intellectually honest, persuasive, and could actually sway me. The crap about the guy redeeming himself when he won't admit what he did and show remorse rings hollow and has the end result of hardening my stance on the DP.

I've seen people blurting out factoids about the "thousands of people" he saved, but nobody can really say that honestly. I've heard a handful of testimonials.

would account for many reading. Since the demographic he is trying to reach would not necessarily be able to purchase many books but would use a library.

LOL