We deny a war on Christmas, but we ridicule and "fuck" Christmas...

here in a constant stream of posts. If the Right is looking for this kind of thing, they can find plenty of it on this board. I think I'll sign off until January. May those of you who wish to find some joy and peace amid this ancient celebration of light in darkness -- whether liberal, enlightened Christian, Jew, other, or tolerant nonbeliever of good will -- find it.

And may a Merry Fitzmas unite us all!

Bah Hum Bug. It's not about religion anyway. It's about spending money. As much as you can to keep up with the Jone's. Have a merry one anyway. At least I get to work overtime so everyone else can spend time with their families. O8)

-- way the culture treats this time of year.

The phrase "war on Christmas" is not of progressive origin.

It's a fake outrage by the Far Right to score points.

A practicing non-Christian, I love "Good King Wensceslas," arguably the best carol every written.

DU are embracing it with gusto. Thus, ex post facto, proving RWers to be correct.

seem to go out of their way to validate the Right's stereotypes of them. Makes one wonder, doesn't it?

It's not kosher to say "fuck Christmas". The "war on Christmas" is ridiculous, but DMMom has a good point.

my post #1, which was agreeing with the OP. See? One big happy family. :)

Christmas puts all sorts of pressures upon people and more and more are suffering depression during these days. More suicides occur during this time of year than any other. It has nothing to do with Christ or Christianity but Commercialism. People are obliged to spend money they don't have or have been saving to buy gifts for people some don't even like. Some are very worried that the gifts they buy won't be good enough or they may forget someone and they will feel slighted. It is an extremely stressful time of year and I know many people are never more happy than when it is over...

It's like that for a lot of people. For example me and my husband. He makes enough $ for us to live decently and buy little gifts for our friends here in the area- but our family is spread out across the country and some are in Germany- we can't afford to do any better than send cards, things are so expensive as it is, and so is sending them. But our families send us money, send us gifts, all that good stuff, and despite how much we hate commercialism we feel so guilty for not being able to do the same for them. And not being able to spend time with them. And it's so depressing. Even if we could afford to fly out and spend Christmas with some family, who do we choose and how do we explain it to others? We've got my family in WA, his in MI, FL, and Germany. It's choose one or one the others, so why bother choosing any. Bah, I say. :)

:hi: Happy Holidays. And thanks for understanding how some of us have it.

not all DU'ers are like what the OP is talking about, which has made her feel this way. but what can I do to change her opinion other than say,

"may your cold winter be exciting, and full of snowy cheer, may you slide down a hill in a sled, and drink a frothy beer, may you sing auld lang syne with courage, and try to live without fear, but for me my fellow DU'er, I'm celebrating the birth again this year!"


there's no reason to attack someone else's beliefs with curses before it. I hate that behavior, and despise in the judgemental republicans, and sigh when I see it here, so don't disappear like you said you were gonna OP.

and even though life is so rough on me and my fam -


I BELIEVE IN THE MEANING OF CHRISTMAS!

This is a Progressive board. The Right Wingers have other boards.

If you worry about what the Right Wing thinks about you, you will have bought into their mindset. Why would anyone here want to do that?

about how so-called "Progressives" look to at least 51% of the voting public. Saying "Fuck Christmas" is not only childish, it's makes one look foolish towards people whom you are trying to convince that you can lead them. It makes you look silly at the exact time you should be convincing people that you can provide a sound, stable administration.

who buy this "War on Christmas" crap, they prove that they can't be leaders? Huh? And where does this "51%" figure come from?

Gore proved he was a leader when he rescued people from Katrina.

Jimmy Carter proves he's a leader when he works for Habitat.

Murtha and Pelosi and Boxer and Conyers prove their leadership in countless ways.

Now, if you're coming here to find a reason to disparage the party, and you find that reason in the silly posts of some people just sick to death of Jesus Incorporated, you are really having to stretch.


Clinton's penis is responsible for the war on Christmas anyway. Or didn't you get Karl's latest memo?

and whatnot, why the constant need to disparage "slow-witted fools"?

I happen to think that arrogance, and cruelty are worse faults than being slow-witted, or easily fooled. The arrogance to label another human being as a "fool" and the cruel desire to throw verbal stones at them or to poke them in the eye with a verbal stick just to make them howl. Maybe I am just a fool for being naive enough to believe that peace is either possible or desirable, that working for peace is better than getting in a circle jerk to fan the flames of hate.

Also, it seems impossible to drop a smart bomb on "Jesus Incorporated" without causing alot of collateral damage.

I will take something away from what you have written, thanks.

and still make a big deal over this bogus "War on Christmas" then you deserve the name calling in my book.

I'm sorry, but this Christmas crap is the most insane issue to be dealing with when innocent people are being killed by our country, when detainees are being tortured, when the economy has gone to hell, when the people in the Gulf are homeless and jobless and hurting.

How can anybody give any merit to those who say our biggest issue is a Frikkin' holiday?

I make no apologies for my " arrogance and cruelty." If people want to live in denial, shopping their little hearts out and bitching about holiday greetings while other humans endure very real persecution and suffering, I haven't an ounce of regard OR sympathy for them and neither should you. THEY are CRUEL and ARROGANT in MY book.

:applause:

If you can see the suffering all over the world (then you'd probably be the only one) and make a big deal out of people who are making a big deal about a bogus "War on Christmas", then ...

I am not sure if anybody says it is our biggest issue, but it is something they raise, and apparently it plays well in Peoria, to sold out crowds. Other issues are far more important, then raise them up the flag pole, but to lob snowballs at those attending the "war on Christmas" pageant does not do a tanjed thing for the homeless or the people getting killed.

You say that some people "deserve" to be treated badly. Isn't that what every bully believes. Those people deserve to get picked on because they look funny, they talk funny, they smell, they're stupid, etc.

I did not think I was talking about your arrogance and cruelty, but rather that of some website which you were applauding. If people are stupid or arrogant or cruel (and I certainly have been all three) I think they can be taught, challenged, and blocked rather than mocked or jeered. Maybe jeering can be a wake up call, but it seems more like fighting cruelty with cruelty of our own which is not only a double standard, but also likely to lead to a crueler world rather than a kinder one.

That was the immediately preceding post you responded to, and to which I, in turn, responded. If someone wants to say "Fuck Christmas," I could not care less. It does not impact my own beliefs, but offense comes easy to the self-righteous.

And "Fuck Christmas" isn't what the vast majority of good and thinking Progressive people are saying. Rather, they are calling the Right Wing bluff on another campaign of lies, but the many people cannot think past the corporate media that is fed them.

same thread that the OP is responding too, where a whole lot of people chuckled and chimed in on the fuckchristmas.org website.

It's what immature children do. Possibly it is you that doesn't know the definition of the term, and hurts the Progressive cause because of it.

I work for one of those kool-aid drinking warriors for christmas bill o-reilly believing freaks. He insisted our party be called a Christmas party and when asked what about the other holidays replied, "I don't give a rat's ass about any of that." So needless to say I enjoy and appreciate any posts or links to something making fun of the whole manufactured crisis of the "War on Christmas."

I haven't seen a single post like you are referring to "Fuck Christmas." Maybe some are against the commericalization of it all or how it is truly a pagan holiday and it was taken by the Christians in a conversion effort. But still I haven't seen anything that wasn't positive about the season in general. Festivus celebrations are not anti-Christmas but pro-Festivus.

Do you have a link to a thread or particular post in mind? Can't you just ignore the threads (I avoided all Tookie ones recently and my experience here wasn't diminished.) As far as giving lurkers with a bias material to feed their biases? I say they'll find what they want no matter what we write and pleasing them or not should not be a goal to have in mind.

If you do go away for a bit, have a great holiday season and we'll be here when you get back.

Peace.

When I think of Christmas all I see is a never ending stream of fucking credit cards.

I actually had a customer demand that I wish them a Merry Christmas the other day.

I told her I'd do it for $19.95, plus tax.

If they tell everyone "Merry Christmas" they risk offending the more uptight non-Christians.

If they say instead "Happy Holidays" then they tick off certain types fo Christians.

Is the answer just to say "thank you" and forget the holiday phrase at all?

It just irritates me to no end that some people are going to dictate to me how I'm going to wish them happiness. I saw some woman wearing a button that said "Wish me a Merry Christmas!"

I've never wanted to say "Fuck You!" to a person more in my entire life.

just like every other day of the year.

As for the customer who demanded a "Merry Christmas" wish, all I can say is that, despite the claim that the customer is always right, my experience is that the customer is usually a fucking idiot. All you can do is humor them so as to not get fired.

When I did cashier training, I always told the new ones..

"The customers are NOT here to chat with you.. They are not your pals.. Ask them if they found everything they needed...smile at them... speak clearly..make eye contact..and say THANK YOU!"..and then on to the next customer.."

For some reason I'm finding people more and more at stores telling me to have a "blessed day." I'm not christian, but I know they are just trying to be nice (usually). But still it annoys me.

"Who would wish somebody a cursed day?"

I might have to do it in response to one of them some time just to see the reaction.

but thank you for your patronage and have a good day? If a customer expresses Merry christmas or Happy Holidays, then the clerk can reply appropriately?


After all isn't it just pretense anyway? I mean, I'm sure the sales associate really gives a rats ass whether or not I'm happy about the season.

:eyes:

Sorry, a little grumpy. About to leave for work.

For what it's worth, I don't work in a corporate retail establishment and am not limited/neutered in how I'm able to respond to asshole customers.

So, yes, I did say that. She didn't think it was terribly funny (although she didn't explode angrily either), but the next guy in line sure got a kick out of it.

WoC.

And as far as any "fucking" being related to Xmas, I think Victoria's Secret has to answer for most of that... :)

To this whole fake "war on Christmas" nonsense.

And there will always be grinches. Based on a poll here recently, most DU'ers are depressed this holiday!

Anyways:

Merry Christmas to you and yours!

It's getting harsh around here. Lots of ammo for the repugs.

Sometimes I want to log off and say "See ya! I'll be back when the impeachment of Cheaney starts"....

and than the boy king!

crap anyway, kinda like the War on Christmas crap. :eyes:

that Richard Pryor hated black people or was a racist because he used the word "nigger". It's all down to perspective, isn't it? Do you really care what the Right is looking for? They're going to hate us all anyway, because that's what they do. They are precisely the people that the "Fuck christmas" rant was aimed at, and they'll never understand it. I'm not a christian and I don't much care for christmas but I don't think it needs you to defend it. Relax. Enjoy it, if it has meaning for you.

Christmas be honored their way and probably to a greater extent that EVERYONE practices Christmas regardless of their beliefs or feelings.

and if that bothers people then they should be more tolerant, not the other way around because guess what, most people in this country celebrate it. It's a shame that my non-beliefs are held up to ridicule, I'm accused of being immoral and I'm forced to deal with this ridiculous "war on christmas" bullshit along with the normal constant barrage and reminder that I'm not a part of the "christian" club.

Give me a damned break. If i choose to say "fuck christmas" how does that affect anyone elses' celebration of it? I find joy all year round not when the christian religion dictates it and I don't like the fact that anyone implies that I'm somehow denigrating their religion simply because I don't celebrate christmas. If christians are so thin skinned regarding their belief system that they can't take any criticism of it then their faith needs firming up, I certainly am not going to feel badly that somehow my non-celebration is the cause.

The whole thing is bullshit and I will continue to call it bullshit. I'm not one to say "fuck christmas" just because I, unlike the "religious" right actually respect the beliefs of others. Those who cry and moan about tolerance toward atheists, jews, muslims, buddhists, pagans, and all the others while continuing to maintain majority control to such a degree that this ridiculous crap has actually been legitimized as an issue are the ones who need to be questioned.

"Give me a damned break. If i choose to say "fuck christmas" how does that affect anyone elses' celebration of it"

Why on earth do you want to take a dump on others' festivities? Are you some kind of misanthrope? I wouldn't say "F*&% XXXX" about anyone's holiday, whether it's Kwanzaa, Hanukkah, St. Patty's Day, Gay Pride, whatever.

It's nice that people have a day in the year that they can get a little excited about and be happy. How sad that you have to get your jollies ragging on it with contrived excuses like:
"The whole thing is bullshit and I will continue to call it bullshit. I'm not one to say "fuck christmas" just because I, unlike the "religious" right actually respect the beliefs of others. Those who cry and moan about tolerance toward atheists, jews, muslims, buddhists, pagans, and all the others while continuing to maintain majority control to such a degree that this ridiculous crap has actually been legitimized as an issue are the ones who need to be questioned."


The whole O'Lielly "War on Christmas" thing is BS and blown out of proportion, but so is your hostility to the holiday and people who like to celebrate it.

PS I'm an atheist who LOVES Christmas.

like that that it shouldnt affect anyone else's joy in the time.

Never in my life have I actually stated that either in print or out loud and I never will. Don't make assumptions that you can't back up. I hold no hostility towards anyone who celebrates christmas, my post was directed at the original poster who is so "offended" by people who don't like christmas that he/she is actually leaving DU for a while as a result. I merely pointed out the absurdity of this position.

I'm not hostile towards the people who celebrate it either. I'm hostile to people who somehow suggest that because I don't that I'm denigrating their religion. This is bullshit and I find it offensive. Anyone who claims a "war on christmas" actually exists is in fact attacking EVERYONE that doesn't celebrate christmas. period. It's hogwash. I challenge you to find one single instance where i have gotten my "jollies" in any way shape or form regarding christmas anywhere on DU. I have never done so and I would never do so. My post was very carefully worded. Your interpretation of it has NOTHING to do with my intent.

That sure seemd to be what you were saying.

But nobody should be forced to celebrate or otherwise observe Christmas. But if someone says "Merry Christmas" to you and you don't do Christmas, a "Thank You" would be more appropriate than a "F&*% you.", IMO.

At least that's what I'd say if someone wished me a Happy Solstice or whatever.

But your post is singularly joyless.

I've studied the Religious Right--the group behind the War On Christmas lie. And I've posted about them on DU so much that some here are probably bored. But all Christians are not alike.

Neither are all Atheists.

it has nothing to do with my generalized outlook on life. I find the so-called "war on christmas" to be insulting and offensive. The very idea that somehow secular america (which amounts to a small percentage of america) is somehow actively going out in an attempt to "destroy" christmas is offensive because I would never denigrate someone's belief system in a personal manner. I may express the reasons why I find christianity to be faulty but I would never suggest that someone who follows this belief system is somehow immoral as a result (something I cannot say of some christians regarding their attitudes towards other beliefs or non beliefs). Those who get in a huff because some people don't like christmas really need to get a thicker skin or they need to examine how deep their faith really is. This just harkens back to the current trend on the "religious" right to claim they are being persecuted for their beliefs when in fact the absolute OPPOSITE is true.

I never generalized in my post, nor was I personal in my response. It's amazing how quickly my response was attacked on erroneous grounds.

I find joy in every day life without fail. Why would you assume that because a single short statement contains "no joy" as you claim (even though I purposefully included the fact that I find joy every day in the post") that this is a reflection upon me as a whole? I made no such assumptions in my posts.

I agree totally with your OP - and I'm a Christian.

It does me no harm if someone says "Fuck Christmas" - my self-esteem takes no hit, I don't feel like a lesser person, and my faith is left unscathed. I might think the person rude, sure; but my faith doesn't depend on making sure that other people validate it.

It does me no harm if someone says "There is no God". Or wants the Ten Commandments out of schoolrooms (which I believe they should be).

You are correct - the war on Christmas is both completely non-existent, and utterly irrelevant even if it did exist. What the RW fucks really mean to say is that it is "A war on my ability to shove my religion down everyone's throat with full legal and social and cultural backing because I am so fearful of my own faith and have so little self-worth that anyone saying anything different to what I believe threatens me and makes me feel like the small cowardly piece of faithless shit that I am".

I'm a total atheist and I love Christmas more than anything. I don't go for the cynical Denis Leary F%&$^ Christmas attitude. It's mean and sad.

If you want to deride the commercialism, fine. Make jokes about the neuroses of families reunited for the holidays, great. But leave the good things, the sentiment, the childlike wonder and merriment alone.

Merry Christmas!

star of "The Ref", one my all-time favourite Christmas movies.

Sid

I like Leary, especially playing characters. He's an excellent comic actor. Given time to rant as he pleases, he gets kinda grating, though. I guess he has a lot of Catholic shit to work through, I dunno. I grew up in a pretty secular household. All our shit was just interpersonal, not religious. And Christmas was usually a nice break from the usual stresses, not a big family brouhaha. It's too bad that some families have a meltdown at Christmas...

If i say Fuck Christmas (which I haven't, until this post) is that now a WAR?

The hyperbole and hysteria knows no bounds...How about the term MURDER, RAPE, or HOLOCAUST. Christmas Holocaust has a nice ring to it.

Or vice versa. A distinction lost on many. When some folks are in a Catholic church, they genuflect and accept the body of Christ. When I'm in a church, I respect the customs of others and eat a wafer bought by the pound.

I'm devout Christian, and don't think they're anti-Christian, or are many believers of other religious thoughts or lack there of as atheists think. I wish everyone a joyous Christmas, it's ok to do so, because even when other people tell me things like "happy hannukah" (rarely but it's happened), I respect their belief, and holiday, and tell them to have a great day.

everyday sadly. Snobby "elitist liberal" posts that look down on anything that may be different from them or their way of thinking. The latest was making a hero or martyr out of "Tookie". Give me a freakin break, the guy was a two-bit thug. But I think DU is no different from alll message boards, there are going to be the miserable negative people and also those who want to get attention by posting the most outrageous over the top nonsense they can think of.

All that said, DU is still the best message board I have seen hands down.

The Holidays are the retail shopping, gift-giving, Santa Claus and snowman decorating falalala la stuff. The fundamentalists are wound up thinking that "Christmas" is the *only* holiday anyone should care about, just as many fundamental religions think theirs is the only way.

People should have their own different ways of celebrating "the holidays" seperately, whether it includes a religious function or not. Corporations should, just as the government does, embrace the diversity of "the holidays" and not just focus on one. That's not to say that they cannot make the decision to focus on one and potentially disregard a segment of the population, but that's their choice.

Meant as a jab at the ridiculous right-wingers and their FAKE war on Christmas.

Besides, I can't help it if the right-wingers are so humor-impaired they can't realize that.

impinging anything on anybody, or anything like that.

> If the Right is looking for this kind of thing, they can find plenty of it on this board.

So what?

Partly because they post it here.

(or may have even done so) and use that as evidence of the "EVIL ATTACK ON CHRISTMAS!". Jon Stewart said on TV: I will not rest until every families gather to spend December 25th together at Osama's homo-abortion-pot-and-commie jizzporium.

Again, so what? If RWers need "evidence", they sure don't need DU, so why censor ourselves? I'm all in favor of Christmas, but I can appreciate the humor behind fuckchristmas.org and Jon Stewart.

I don't get upset about every post at DU that might offend someone. If it offends me, I answer back.

An outsider could cull a few offensive posts from DU at any time. Of course there are far more good ones.

after Christmas because of all the attacks" got me fired up more than absolutely necessary.

The Christian right should invade B.C. I actually saw mostly "SEASONS GREETINGS" instead of "Happy Holidays." Does everyone know that holidays means "holy days"? I never thought about it. My husband pointed it out.

I don't tend to take anything truly sacred..at least not in the humour arena. I like Sarah Silverman who makes(oh the liberal horror) jokes about rape, the holocaust and compares her boyfriend's balls to the smell of her grandma. It's a wacky world.

I love Christmas. Always have as a daughter of atheists. We celebrated Christmas because it's what you DO when you have kids and love people. My husband's father was so strange (but super smart professor) and an non-believer that they never celebrated Christmas! (no presents!) until the first of the four kids went to school and then came home and asked about this Christmas thing. Then they did. It's a social custom even stronger than religion. And some people hate that because damn it they hate conforming. I understand-I feel that way about many many things in "society." It's not like you can ignore it, go to work, and pretend it's not happening. First of all, everyone gets it a holiday so it's a little hard to pretend it's another day. Anyway-it's complicated-if someone is saying "fuck Christmas" I would bet they are lonely, angry or just sick of all the hypocrisy. Again, I understand I've been there.

War on Christmas is just propaganda made up to for the talking heads to have something to talk about. There is an actual war we started and wars everywhere that are the war on Christmas...if Christmas is love and peace. Oh and I saw THE BEST commercial the other night-for Pampers-all the babies sleeping..PEACE ON EARTH. I guess it's okay to say that if you are for babies. Oh well.

Happy Solistice. IT was that SUN that started it all, afterall.

The "War on Christmas" meme is a lot of manufactured crap meant to inflame and confuse the corporate christers into believing the secular left is persecuting them. They believe it's a necessary condition for the return of their imaginary king (Jesus Bush maybe, but not Elvis).

Everyone needs to feel good about something. So let them be victims if it makes them happy for the Holidays.

Speaking for myself, Christmas is just another over-hyped day on the calender for American pig-trough consumerism. And as an agnostic who tends toward atheism, I won't be intimidated by this disingenuous and cynical campaign. It's an illegitimate debate and these people have precisely as much power over the discourse as we grant them.

And frankly it's good fun to barbecue an occasional sacred cow.

So Merry Fucking Christmas!!!

:silly:

You got it very right.

:toast:

Are Cowards. WE can't cut and run from the war on Christmas:eyes:

Happy Holidays

as he was about the South after the election.

No way in HELL am I going to participate in ANY discussion pro- or anti-Christmas, but that fuckchristmas web page is goddamned hilarious.

You know, we all SHOULD have a little bit of fun sometimes.

Redstone

...is not ridiculing Christmas.

Curious to see that "constant" stream of ridicule you're seeing. Got any links?

Where are all these horrible posts?

It's two towns over from Whiny Persecution Complex Junction.

:rofl:

Is it already time for The Airing of the Grievances? Jeez time flies... I better get ready for the Feats of Strength.

:eyes:

That rant was about the christian right and their distraction.

Surprising that you couldn't figure that out.

I dont care how they take what is posted at DU.

I dont live to please or placate the right.

I'm a big old Lezbian. If I gave a shit what the right thinks, i wouldnt be happy to say that.

Why would YOU want to please them?
This is a serious question.



I like Christmas. I like Xmas. I like Saturnalia, Yule, Solstice, Noel, Hogmonay, etc.
I even like Holidays

Yet, I REALLY liked the Fuck Christmas rant.
I recommend it.
Here, For those who missed it the first time;
www.fuckchristmas.org

I worship according to my own conscience - just as the Founders expected us to do.

is that better?

Go tell it on the mountain! Sound of jackboots drummin', drummin'! Go tell it on the mountain! Christmas is on the march!

I heard the boots on Christmas morn! Thump thumpity thump thump thump thump!

-- is going to wait until January to return.

I doubt if the Right is paying that much attention to DU. Right-wingers who are ought to get their own boards better focused instead of yelping like wild animals over same-sex marriage and prayer in schools. I no more care what the Right thinks of what we say here than I care whether Santa wears briefs or boxers.

I reassert my claim that "Good King Wensceslas" is a hell of a fine number, and I'll personally firebomb the residence of anybody who says different.

"The holidays" can be rich in good ideas and experiences even as they are often full of irritations and hypocricies. We ought to be able to navigate that parodox even as we take time to disparage Dubya and his idiot administration.

The accusation that the left is anti-Christmas is bogus. They do this with everything. It's the same shit, different day.

They claim we're anti-Christmas, yet every normal level-headed person here and everywhere else knows that's rubbish. There's a handful of people who are anti-Christmas here, so what. That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that they're "democrats."

They've also claimed in the past that we're anti-troops, anti-family, anti-America, anti-values, blah blah blah blah blah.

I've said it before here and I'll say it again, I'm tired of the right accusing us of being "for" or "against" something outrageous and then putting the ball in our court to defend ourselves.

It's not about Christmas. It's a game of control. A political game. And we fall for it when we bother to play the game by defending ourselves and offering proof that we're not anti-whatever they say we are at the moment.

The fact that you've decided to go away and ignore DU'ers until after Christmas is reinforcement that their attack method impacts us negatively. Score one for the right-wing. You have allowed them to control you. Literally.

Enjoy your DU-less Christmas.

Can you let me know before you whoosh out of here until January what we are being chided for? :)

The negativity is directed at those in society who try to wield Christmas like a mace, battering and bludgeoning those who don't agree that the literal birth of Jesus is all the holidays are about.

Christmas doesn't need any defenders. The entire "War on Christmas" storyline is no more real than the whole Natilie Holloway embroglio. Sure, she's missing and probably dead, but it's not news. It's a story fluffed because it sells.

The War on Christmas is on because it sells.

There was a war on a Christmas, and Toys R Us won.

http://www.plim.org/92didu.html

Did Followers of the Messiah Call Themselves Christians?

Now the Dictionary of the Bible by James Hastings (1963 Charles Scribners's Sons), pg. 138, states under the caption, "3. The Spread of the Name. - Since 'Christian' was not originally a self-designation of the followers of Jesus, it is not surprising that it is rarely found in the New Testament." Hastings Dictionary of the Bible further states that Roman authorities gave the Messiah's followers the name 'Christians' but the word itself to the pagans is associated with heinous crimes and vices.

In this section "4. The Meaning of the Name.- The Roman authorities, who first designated the disciples of Jesus as Christians, attempted thereby to characterize them as a political group or party, held together by their loyalty to the party head, Christos. While originally the title was given for juridical convenience without implying a derogatory sense, the pagan mob must at a very early time have associated it with heinous crimes and vices ... Not too much emphasis should be placed, therefore upon the etymology of christos. Though literally meaning the 'Anointed One," i.e. the Messiah, the title soon lost its original denotation and became a personal name in the Greek-speaking church."

Originally Romans or Gentiles gave the followers of the Messiah the name Christians and Mystery Babylon accepted it as the title the followers of the Messiah used for themselves.

- that the ridiculing of Christmas is over the top on this board. As Democrats, aren't we supposed to be the all-inclusive and accepting party? If that's the case, why do some find it necessary to be disrespectful of anyones holidays? The "Fuck Christmas" sentiment here is clearly hurtful to the majority of Democrats. YES, majority. Maybe not at DU but DU is not representative of the party as a whole. And - while not all Democrats participate at DU - no doubt there are many that visit here.

Why would anyone find it necessary - or even smart - to insult and ridicule something clearly important to others of their own party? This mocking and ridiculing of Christmas - or any other holiday - is disrespectful and serves only to divide us at a time when we need to be brought together.

I don't know who yanked the sense of humor out of some Dems.

http://www.serve.com/shea/germusa/pagan.htm

Because the festive aspects of the German-American Christmas, including the tree, were considered pagan, the Puritans in New England shunned them until about 1875. They were not entirely wrong!

http://www.origin-of-christmas.com/

The date of December 25th probably originated with the ancient "birthday" of the son-god, Mithra, a pagan deity whose religious influence became widespread in the Roman Empire during the first few centuries A.D. Mithra was related to the Semitic sun-god, Shamash, and his worship spread throughout Asia to Europe where he was called Deus Sol Invictus Mithras. Rome was well-known for absorbing the pagan religions and rituals of its widespread empire.

As such, Rome converted this pagan legacy to a celebration of the god, Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god during the winter solstice period. The winter holiday became known as Saturnalia and began the week prior to December 25th. The festival was characterized by gift-giving, feasting, singing and downright debauchery, as the priests of Saturn carried wreaths of evergreen boughs in procession throughout the Roman temples.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

The context in which Christianity, and thus Christmas was formed was the Roman Empire. The Romans honored Saturn, the ancient god of agriculture, each year beginning on December 17 in a festival called the Saturnalia, to glorify past days when the god Saturn ruled, according to the tradition. This festival lasted for seven days and included the winter solstice, which at that time, by the Julian calendar, fell on December 25 (today, following calendar reform, it falls on December 21).

During Saturnalia the Romans feasted, postponed all business and warfare, exchanged gifts, and temporarily freed their slaves. With the lengthening of daylight, these and other winter festivities continued through January 1, the festival of Kalends, when Romans marked the day of the new moon and the first day of the month and religious year (the secular year began in March). A common practice among Roman citizens during Saturnalia was to select one of their slaves to be the master of the household, with the masters themselves acting as slaves.

but fuck it without any Lube. then Leave it crying and cowering in a corner.

:spray:


:spank:


:loveya:

If anyone is mocking christmas it the right wingers as usual. People here are tired of having the right shove down thier brand of christianity down everyone else throat and are constantly on edge because of it. True there might be some people who actually hate the idea of a religious holiday but that is thier right and this is a public board.Personally while I joke around - it helps to relive stress- I love Christmas. No one here has personally come down on me for celebrating my version of christmas. Hugs and peace to you. I hope you come back to the boards soon.

"War" on Christmas is a bunch of bs, intolerant people who don't believe in wishing people not of their belief (certain sect of christianity) a happy holy day. That is all this is. Intolerant closed mindedness. Saying "happy holidays" is showing respect for everyone, whateve they call their holy day.

"fuck christmas" seems to be a lot about the comercialization of Christmas/holidays. We are supposed to be happy happy happy while spending money on everybody else getting them stuff to put into storage. Why must we be happy happy happy since for many this is not a happy time of yr, and forcing happiness on anyone is stupid. Why must we show our self worth by how much money we spend now? This too is stupid.

So, happy days, Merry Christmas, Happy Days to all of you and us in this dark time of year. Peace and happiness for the new yr and visualize impeachement.

I do not remember ever doing such a thing. Go figure.
The Professor

:evilgrin:

Call me kooky!

I think most people are fed up with the bullshit that christmas has become.. the steady stream of people into the likes of walmart.. buying more shit that no one needs and running further into debt. Our consumerism is killing the planet and hastening our demise. That aspect of christmas makes me sick...

what I DO love is making gifts, making cards, decorating for the holidays.. and enjoying the good spirit of the day. While I dont' agree with the whole Jesus lord stuff, I don't deny he was born, and don't have any issue with anyone practicing their religion.

been hijacked and completely commercialized. The reason that I have no problem saying Fuck Christmas is that it's not viewed as a religious holiday and I certainly don't hear most people talk about it that way. It's essentially the same as saying Fuck Valentine's Day. A commercially created endeavor. Mary and Joseph would be proud :eyes:

100% agreement

designed to inflame and provoke and serves no meaningfull purpose.