What if the core problems were resolved? And just what is a "liberal"?

Fix the core problems in society and incidents like those that prompted Tookie to do what he chose to do and go to jail and later die for it would have avoided. He would never have needed to "reform" and he sure as hell wouldn't have received any penalties because he did no crime.

Fix the causes. Don't fry the symptoms.

Or at least work with symptoms until the causes are fixed. And if the symptom is unfixable, do what has to be done; none of us truly knows if he was unfixable or if it was a sham based on skin color or anything else!

But until the core problems are addressed, more innocent people will die. More people will be tried, convicted, and sent to death row. We can all have fun in the spirit of the moment. Or we can rise above it and work on ways to reduce the causes of such insipid acts in the first place. Wouldn't that be nice?

I expect this thread to sink, just like the others. But if others can still post their soapbox pro- and con- sides, I can still post my outside-the-box viewpoints. Well, not anymore. People prefer being wrapped up in their mentality than looking around. That's what I've seen over the last few days and I've got my share of the blame too.

Most importantly, to put this debate to rest: Being liberal is being able to think outside the box. Not being confined within one and forced to chant the mandates. It's about not only thinking for yourself, but thinking of how to improve lives for everyone. And without looking outside the box, we can't even improve ourselves. And even I have been guilty thinking inside the box with my cozy feelings and even in the tookie threads. Why? Because even I got wrapped up in my fuzzy feelings. For a while. Until I realized how divisive and shallow the entire discussion is. Yes, shallow. It's about one man who could have been anybody. There are more important issues afoot. But I stopped feeling and started thinking again. And I know I'm not alone in this, regardless of how we feel on the death penalty.

That's all.

definetly a read worth nominating. :)

If he needed money, he didn't have to kill them. The only core problem that I see is the rotten core that Stanley Williams had.

Just a guess as to the things which might influence someone to become a gang member.

This fucker was a sociopath; we shouldn't blame his murders on systemic racism. One might as well claim that John Wayne Gacy was a victim of homophobia and that societal pressure drove him to kill a dozen teenage boys.

It'd be just as false, too.

Oh, and by the way, I don't support the death penalty, even for someone as cold-blooded and evil as Tookie Williams. AND I believe systemic racism IS a real problem. I just think, ultimately, that free will enters into the picture at some point....

because you obviously don't know what it's like to live in a different reality. Free will...only goes so far. We all come into this world the same...but after that things take some mighty drastic turns. My mom died when I was a baby. That experience...and the experience of my youth has colored my world in ways you could have no frigging idea. The world you live in is unrecognizable to me, but that doesn't mean I should swing because I don't measure up to your meaning of 'normal', or because I may have acted inappropriately in my youth, because of the learning process of my environment. I am so lucky that I did not kill anybody...drunk driving, high and pissed with weapons handy,etc., and it is not by my 'free will' that I have escaped. It is sheer grace. As in there but for the grace of God...

Tookie chose to do wrong.

like truth...we would all like to think we would behave honorably...sometimes doing what's 'right' is 'wrong'. Whatever

"Oh, and by the way, I don't support the death penalty, even for someone as cold-blooded and evil as Tookie Williams. AND I believe systemic racism IS a real problem. I just think, ultimately, that free will enters into the picture at some point...."


However I don't think Williams only problems were a lack of conscience and drugs. Where does conscience come from?

:toast:

after a wicked emotional hangover from all the insensitive, assinine, and rabid posters of yesterday. I do not mean to be unkind but I truly wish for them to see the error of their ways. That wall of reality has a hell of a kick.