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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 09:31 PM
Original message
H20Man Nails Hadley
Edited on Tue Dec-13-05 09:37 PM by Me.
Re-printed in its entirety from his blog wit permission.

Tuesday, December 13, 2005
Stephen Hadley & the Plame Scandal

{1} "I've also seen press reports from White House officials saying I am not one of his sources. .... It is what it is." -- Stephen Hadley's non-answer to journalists asking if he was Bob Woodward's source on Valerie Plame's identification, 11-'05.

When the news that Bob Woodward had known about Valerie Plame approximately a week before Lewis Libby told Judith Miller, administration supporters claimed this could destroy the case being made by Patrick Fitzgerald. Surely, there could have been no conspiracy to out Plame as a CIA operative if Bob Woodward of Watergate fame was involved. However, as soon as the question was asked, "Who told Woodward?", things went downhill for the administration.

The majority of media sources reported that Woodward's source was unknown. They speculated who it might not be, and flashed Dick Armitage's photo on the tv screen, but very few sources reported who actually told Woodward about Valerie Plame.

However, the Sunday Times reporters Michael Smith and Sarah Baxter reported that lawyers close to the case said that Stephen Hadley was Woodward's source. They noted a NSC spokesperson denied that Hadley was involved. Raw Story's Larisa Alexandrovna and Jason Leopold also reported that Hadley was indeed Woodward's source; they based their report on attorneys connected to the case, and an intelligence source.

Woodward has joined Judith Miller in the journalists who have betrayed their co-workers and the public. They deserve the contempt of everyone who is concerned about the Bush administration's outing of a covert CIA agent. It is important, though, to focus as well on the man who exposed Valerie Plame's identity to Bob Woodward.

{2} "To say that a security policy based on nuclear weapons was 'irresponsible' and 'immoral' from the outset is to accuse the United States government of pursuing a policy that was irresponsible and immoral. Such serious and false accusations against a democratic government destroys public confidence in our constitution and our leaders."
--Stephen Hadley; Duke Journal of Comparative and International Law

This little quote from Mr. Hadley may surprise some readers who are not familiar with him, beyond the rather mild and unassuming fellow seen a bit more frequently since Scooter Libby was indicted. But that is pure Hadley, a man who was advocating that the U.S. be prepared to use nuclear weapons against Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War. Hadley felt we could take no chances with a mad man like Saddam, and was convinced that Iraq's WMDs were reason to strike the Iraqi capital city with a nuclear weapon .... for security's sake.

President Bush1 opted for a more sane policy, however, and did not invade Iraq; much less conduct a nuclear strike on Baghdad. However, there remained a group of people within the Bush1 administration who were still convinced that Saddam's WMDs were a threat to our national security. In my last essay, I wrote about Dick Cheney, and traced his relationship first with Donald Rumsfeld, and then the two's association with the "neoconservatives" who came to power in the Bush2 administration. Stephen Hadley is a central player in this.

In a June 12, 2003 article in the New York Review of Books, Elizabeth Drew noted that Hadley was one of two "principal allies" of VP Dick Cheney and Scooter Libby's core group. The other was John Bolton. Hadley had been associated with these people for decades. He was also a co-worker and close friend of Elliot Abrams, who pled guilty to lying to Congress in the Iran-Contra scandal.

{3} "The challenges facing our great country, from within and from without, demand that 'we, the people' scrutinize with utmost care anyone who would be so bold as to ask to shoulder the colossal task of leading the United States of America."
-- Senator Robert Byrd; Losing America; 2004; page 18.

Let's take a look at some of the history of this quiet workaholic, who Dick Cheney learned to rely upon in the Bush1 administration. Hadley was a graduate of Yale in 1972. From there, he became an analyst for the Department of defense in the Nixon administration, from 1972-74.

From 1974 to '77, he was a member of the NSC under President Ford. He would then be connected to Shea & Gardner, a law firm representing Lockheed and Martin. There he was closely associated with James Woolsey. Hadley would also serve on the National Security Advisory Panel to the Director of the CIA.

In 1986-87, Hadley was a counsel for the Tower Commission, investigating the illegal sale of arms to Iran. Considering his close personal friendship with Elliot Abrams, among others, one might question if Hadley should have recognized a possibility -- however slight -- that he might not be entirely objective.

From 1989 to 1993, Hadley served Dick Cheney in the Defense Department in the Bush1 administration. His title was Assistant Secretary for International Security Policy. In my essay on Cheney, I noted that Dick was not among the founding members of the neocon movement; rather, like Rumsfeld, he would become closely associated with them in the 1980s, bringing his ability as a "systems man" who fronted for the oil and defense industries. Hadley, as we see, was among the neocons with an intelligence background, who schooled Cheney.

{4} "It was getting a little too heated for the kind of meeting Steve Hadley liked to chair ...."
-- Richard Clarke; Against All Enemies; 2004; page 232.

The NSC's counterterrorism chief Richard Clarke would brief a number of the in-coming Bush2 officials about the threat posed to the USA by al Qaeda. Among those that he and Sandy Berger would meet with were Dick Cheney, Condi Rice, and Stephen Hadley. Clarke has told of his attempts to focus the new administration on Usama bin Laden and al Qaeda.

In part, Clarke asked Hadley, who he had been friends with since the Bush1 administration, to call meetings of cabinet-level principals. This led to what was known as the "deputies group," which included Hadley and Paul Wolfowitz, Dick Armitage, John McLaughlin, and Scooter Libby. From the beginning, Wolfowitz disagreed strongly with Clarke and Armitage's belief that al Qaeda was the greatest threat to US security, at home and abroad. Wolfowitz would start a number of arguments, stating that too much attention was being paid to bin Laden, and not enough to Saddam and Iraq.

It was in these meetings that Hadley would attempt to find a compromise. Hadley noted there was a "cluster" of hot-spots in the Middle East, including Afghanistan, Iraq, and also India's selling weapons to potential enemies of the USA.

Between 5-31 and 7-26-01, the deputies group met four times to discuss a "phased strategy" for dealing with Iraq. It included the no fly zones; economic pressures; and support of opposition groups within the country. It did not make any plans for regime change, which was clearly Wolfowitz's goal.

When Hadley testified before the 9-11 Commission, he stated that he did not believe that Rice and he had the job of coordinating domestic agencies before the 9-11 attacks.

{5} "Hadley saw the process as makeshift. 'Come as you are.' They were making it up as they went." -- Bob Woodward; Bush At War; page 182

Hadley worked closely with Donald Rumsfeld on the war in Afghanistan. In the book "Bush At War," it is also evident that Hadley had a close relationship with author Bob Woodward. Hadley explained to Woodward that he felt Rumsfeld was frustrated by a lack of communication and coordination with the CIA. Hadley spoke about his beliefs to his boss, Condi Rice, who advised him to approach Rumsfeld. Hadley felt that Rumsfeld should take a more direct approach to CIA director Tenet. Woodward's text indicates a manipulative, behind-the-scenes approach by Hadley.

Part of Hadley's other responsibilities in the Bush1 administration included working closely with Michael Gerson, a presidential speechwriter. Gerson had been with Bush since he was the governor of Texas. A self-described "evangelical Christian," Gerson felt that Bush was destined to play a central role in American politics, and he wanted to be part of what he believed was God's will.

An example of Hadley and Gerson's work is the infamous "Axis of Evil" speech. Gerson had started with "axis of hatred," which Hadley molded to "axis of evil." There was pressure from the neocon forces to focus on Iraq; others advocated including others, so that it would not be as obvious that the administration was planning to attack Saddam. Hadley did not want to include Iran, because he believed that the US would use the progressive influence of people like Ahmad Chalabi to change Iranian politics. The president insisted on including Iran with the other two.

Hadley's thoughts on the correct way to use the CIA, and his speech-writing skills, would continue to play a significant role when the Bush administration decided to invade Iraq.

{6} "I don't know where the neocons came from .... Somehow, the neocons captured the president. They captured the vice president."
-- General Anthony Zinni, USMC (ret.); Centcom Commander, 1998-2000

Stephan Hadley was connected to three groups that were involved in the Iraqi invasion. The first, known as the Executive Steering Group (ESG), was geared for integrated coordination of efforts on Iraq. Hadley selected Frank Miller of the NSC to head up the group. Miller, a former Navy officer, had worked at Defense for Dick Cheney in the past. Woodward, of course, has a Naval intelligence "background."

Hadley also worked closely with Douglas Feith, who ran the Pentagon's Office of Special Plans (OSP). Feith did intelligence evaluations for Hadley and Scooter Libby. From James Bamford's "A Pretext for War," (page 317), we know that Feith had set a goal of not simply showing the administration "how to fight Saddam Hussein, but also how to fight the NSC, the State Department, and the intelligence community ...", indeed, anyone who doubted that Saddam was the greatest terrorist threat in the world.

Hadley was the individual who convinced Dick Cheney that Mohamed Atta met in the Czech Republic with an Iraqi intelligence officer before 9-11, even though this theory was discredited. Hadley had gone to CIA HQs to attempt to find links between Iraq, WMD production, and terrorists. He was, with men like Feith, Libby, and Bolton, among those who convinced Cheney and Rumsfeld that the OSP intelligence was superior to the CIA's or State Department's.

When President Bush was preparing an address for Cincinnati on 10-7-02, CIA Director Tenet sent Hadley two e-mails, followed up by a phone call, specifically telling him to remove the Niger yellow cake reference.

A week later, Joseph Wilson had an op-ed on Saddam in the San Jose Mercury News. Brent Scrowcroft reportedly took a copy to the White House, where he shared it with Condi Rice and Stephen Hadley. The following spring, Rice would deny that anyone near her was aware of Wilson, his mission to Niger, or the concerns about the yellow cake. She first attempted to blame Tenet, and soon blamed Hadley, for this being in Bush's State of the Union Speech.

Hadley was among the members of the WHIG that met in VP Cheney's office from March of 2003 onward, preparing a "work-up" on Wilson.

{6} "The devil begins with froth on the lips of an angel entering into battle for a holy and just cause." -- Grigory Pomerants; dissident Russian philosopher; (from Patrick Buchanan's "Where the Right Went Wrong.")

This essay provides information on Stephen Hadley. Keep it in mind as Patrick Fitzgerald goes forward with his investigation of the Plame scandal.

http://h2oman.blogspot.com/2005/12/stephen-hadley-plame-scandal.html


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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. All these spidery fingers, weaving their tortured web ..... n/t
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Curious title .....
The first sentence isn't well-constructed; please overlook that.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Nail In The Coffin n/t
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Thank you, yet again, for your insight and your wisdom
You do live the "each one teach one" life lesson. You are greatly appreciated. :hug:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. I have found
a couple things that I would like to write differently .... the first example is the timing of reports on Hadley being Woodward's source. Raw Story was first. I put the Sunday Times first, because of their attributing the information to one source (attorneys close to the case). Raw Story has two sources (attorneys and an intel source). On any important case, a direct source is good, very good. Two sources is great. If we think of it as "the court of public opinion," then we -- the jury -- are going to find two "witnesses," from two different areas, impressive.

I also would have asked readers a simple question: why would it be important for the White House to try to hide the fact that Hadley told Woodward? Why would they try to create the false impression that it was Armitage? Were they not aware that the truth would eventually come out?
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Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. Libby wants to be the Liar, Hadley the Traitor and Rove
Edited on Tue Dec-13-05 10:45 PM by Pithy Cherub
is just the roast pig daily Fitzmas special. The net result is, through no timing issues on Fitzgerald's part, to make this high profile during the 2006 primaries and general elections. If Fitzgerald does one indictment every six weeks, then as soon as the training wheels get put on the Bush administration tricycle, Bush hits an indictment zone and down he goes - again!

Contentiously, now every *reporter* assigned to cover this is coming up covered in exceedingly smelly, permanent stick-on White House turds, thinking no one will notice. :eyes: Journalists in D.C. REALLY seem to need the Ethics 101 course recently debuted at the White House. Their executive management needs to be fired for allowing this on their watches & to send a message these ethical lapses will not be condoned. But condoned the *journalistic* access whoring is, and to the detriment of the American and global communities.

Hadley and Libby together are additional interlocking pieces back to Cheney. The 16 words and then more than one orchestrated leak lead back to conspiracy charges. A complicit and duplicitous media ironically help make the case for conspiracy charges all around.

Thank you for another excellent contribution H20Man. You are a treasure for posting faithfully Me.! :pals:
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. Hadley is one of the "Ornaments" on my Fitzmas tree
Which you can enjoy right here:

GREAT WORK H2OMAN!!!
**********************************

Decorate YOUR FITZMAS TREE - an Interactive Animation, my Best Yet!

MERRY FITZMAS! I wanted a Damn Fitzmas Tree ever since I heard the term invented RIGHT HERE, and NOW by god I have one, and you can too..

I have labored long and hard on this Interactive Animation (Flash - you may need the most recent flash plugin on your system - at least 6 I think, here's the Macromedia link for player/plugins: http://www.macromedia.com/downloads/#players ) - WHERE YOU can actually DECORATE YOUR OWN FITZMAS TREE, by dragging and dropping Ornaments and dropping them on the FITZMAS TREE - if an Ornament sticks to your "hand" it may be because of the slimy people encased within, just give it another mouse click on the tree to shake it off

There are two Flashes that interact with each other - one is the Fitzmas Tree itself, with a box FULL of decorations, the decorations being the Subjects of Indictments, Investigations, etc - something your Right Wing brother-in-law might be interested in knowing, lots of fun facts

If you click (click all over the page, lots of surprises on it) on the TITLE's of the Flashes you can go between the Tree itself, and another Flash that will load up with all the Decorations and an explanation of WHO they are, and WHAT they did.. for folks that don't know much about the Plame Outing they can get educated on the Ornaments and then click on back to the Tree and Decorate the Hell out of it

Here's two links, the first goes to the Fitzmas Tree itself, but like I said, you can click to the other Flash for more info, or a pal can get more info and Trim the Tree after.. Try this one First:

http://www.tbtmradio.com/flash/merryfitzmas.swf

or you can check out the Ornaments (but maybe miss some surprises where the Presents are) at This Link:

http://www.tbtmradio.com/flash/merryfitzmasornaments.swf

In case you're wondering what that building is in the background, it's the HAGUE, I thought it rather appropriate - and the guys in ORANGE, well, I think you'll recognize them

So ENJOY if you will, and do me a favor, keep this KICKED Please - a labor of love, but no sleep for about Three days either.. Pass it around to anyone you think might be interested, but Please also come back here and Let me Know what YOU think of this work, I scrambled brains doing this

And don't forget to open the presents under the FITZMAS TREE, I wrapped them special just for YOU..


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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I love your Fitzmas Tree! It is brilliant!
:applause: WHOO HOO!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Happy holiday season
to you and yours!

My oldest son's car shit the bed yesterday. I had to pick him up after work, and rather than going out to socialize, he was stuck here for the night. After his younger sisters went to bed, I asked him if there was anything he wanted to watch on tv? And -- you guessed it -- he said, "Yeah. Let's watch 'Rove's War'!"

Timing is everything. I think that today is going to be significant, as far as what Fitzgerald presents to the grand jury. We may even have some good news by day's end.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Ha ha!
You've made my Day sir.. and your son.. hook him up to the computer and he can decorate the Fitzmas Tree while Rove goes DOWN..

Hadley.. been watching him.. reminds me of Dan Ackroyd in "Trading Places", pretty sure that if he didn't have his nails manicured he'd scream like a little girl, just wait, that BOY will SING like a canary..

Just give him a room mate named Mario, a hairy chested fellow with overflowing testosterone levels and doesn't like the word "no", he'll talk :)

THANKS for the uplift, both the Hadley article and what your son said.. hope his car heals soon :)
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
31. Great tree, Symbolman!
I had fun with it.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Thanks!
I had a lot of fun making it, stretching their faces to fit a globe.. like Hunter S. Thompson once wanted to do, he wanted to "wrap Nixxon's intestines around a Phone Booth.." me, I have Photoshop :)

Appreciate it!
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
34. EXCELLENT! Please consider this having it's own post so no DUer will
miss it! Merry fitzmas to you symbolman and a great BIG THANKS!
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. I posted it and of course even tho many want to see and play with it
if many others post then it drops.. it's the way of the DU, wish I could pin it up at the top until at least Fitzmas is over :)

It's posted in the General and General Political if you want to look for it and give it a kick, and thanks!
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
7. Will Hadley Begin His New Year With An Indictment?
Rove is next, can Hadley be far behind, will he be part of the deal Rove makes?
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. All signs point to yes on Hadley's indictment. nm
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
12. Hadley - Groomed to Take the Fall. Move Over, Col. North.
I'm sorry. Yes, he's been on a lot of committees for a long time. But, there's not a single instance of initiative shown in this guy's resume - he doesn't do anything on his own. Whatever Hadley might have said to Woodward, it was because he was told to say it. Who told him? Likewise, if he reinserted the "16 little words" it was because he was following orders.

Those orders had to come from above: Cheney or Bush/Rove/Rice.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I can't disagree
with you .... but I will say that when we take a measure of the man, we find someone who doesn't do well under pressure from higher up in the food chain. Steve is like a trained dog: he'll follow the lead of any master. Now, he is caught in illegal behavior by Fitzgerald. He must decide who is the stronger master -- Dick Cheney or Patrick Fitzgerald.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. The dog training metaphor is apt.
Edited on Wed Dec-14-05 07:30 AM by leveymg
Somehow, I just know Fitz has read Jack London's "Call of the Wild". Even after breaking, though, Hadley will be cautious and won't give up more than he is directly asked for.

Not so, Rover. He'll hold out longer, but when he spills, it's all gonna come gushing out going back to his work for Bush, Sr. and the RNC in the 'eighties. Rover, with his endless curiosity and sharp memory, can provide a comprehensive map where the skeletons are buried. I hope Fitz has put close, round-the-clock surveillance on him.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. It will be interesting
to see what happensd in the next week to ten days. I think there is a full moon today. Maybe that will bring us some good luck.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. We're about to find out whether Fitz is for real
Knock wood:hi:
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
29. Since You Brought It Up
The full moon is tomorrow.

“So all in all the Full Moon looks downright ominous for the US and especially for the Yahoo in Chief”.

http://www.astroworld.us/archives/000546.html#000546
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. Wooohoooo hope the fucker in chief gets what's coming to him!
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Any Guesses As To When There May Be Significant Movement
with this case?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. I consider
the fact that Fitzgerald is meeting with the grand jury today to be significant. It's movement in a positive direction, hopefully, and I think that at some point, there is going to something made public, perhaps with very little "warning." Expect the unexpected.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Before Christmas?
Coals in the stocking for someone?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. I do not think
that today is a good day for Mr. Rove. I suspect that there are two things that are on Fitzgerald's agenda, needing to be dealt with soon. The first is Rove; the second involves Stephen Hadley. Rove has put himself into a position where he might be dealt with in a more direct manner, and I would not be surprised to see movement on that relatively soon. I've thought that the period between Thanksgiving and Christmas would prove upbeat for DUers interested in justice in this case.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Hadley Part Of The Big Squeeze
on Cheney? He seems to be putting up a good front, but you never know. Frankly I was stunned to see him become so visible lately. Bravado on his and the Dick's part? I mean the guy has got to know he's in a precarious situation or is he in a bubble too?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #26
39. I assume
that you heard Chris Matthews identify who many think was Novak's original source tonight.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
30. Love the exact metaphor!
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
19. He looks like Clark Kent
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
44. He looks more like Prof. Rudolf Popkiss from "Supercar!"
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
22. Thanks for the comprehensive back story.
Edited on Wed Dec-14-05 10:09 AM by myrna minx
These folks weren't created in a vacuum, so the history is important to see their evolution of malfeasance.
These folks are so slippery, it's difficult to wrap ones mind around how far their tentacles reach.


on edit-h20 man, was Hadley a cheap date? ;-) :evilgrin:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Your last question
might be better directed at Mr. Woodward!

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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. Lol! n/t
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. BTW, Any Idea What's Happening With Hannak & Wurmser?
They seem to have fallen off the radar lately.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. I Meant Hannah Of Course
Edited on Wed Dec-14-05 08:56 PM by Me.
I'm sure FitzG. knows what I mean.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. If I were to speculate
I would think that DUers will be discussing a wider range of characters who are involved in the case by the New Year. Way back in the good old days, on the infamous Plame Threads, we used to speak about a good dozen of the characters involved. Elliot Abrams; Mr. Hahhah; Wurmser. Part of what I am hoping to accmplish with the mini-series of "mug shots" of Cheney and Hadley is to review some of the hoodlums involved.

A couple of points of interest .... or at least points I think are interesting .... would include that Fitzgerald has a reservoir of information that the public is unaware of. The indictments, and even the reports on Hardball are really just the surface of that reservoir. When republican talking heads babble about the Libby case isn't strong, they are talking out their behinds. Prosecutors who have read the indictments, and who are familiar with Fitzgerald's style know that there is a lot more to the picture than meets the eye.

And that brings me to the little outburst by the nasty poodle Bob Novak about asking Bush. That has zero significance in the legal sense .... but could be of value in the media wars .... as part of the public perception contest. Of course, when reporters ask Bush -- if they do -- he will repeat the "it's an ongoing legal case, so I can't comment." And that's true. He really can't. But it makes him look bad. Here is old Bob, the lap dog, yapping at the president. When Bob is nipping at George's heels, it doesn't look well for the administration. Novak, of course, has connections. (Obviously!) And he knows what is upcoming in Washington.

The 2nd tier players will become more central, soon.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
25. Woodward is such a schmuck!!! If Hadley goes down,...
,...I wonder if the rest of the neoconster web will be pulled down, as well. I don't want these people screwing with our country, ever again!
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
28. Thank you once again this is a great summary - and you know who
has bull eye's on their backs.

I feel that the GJ and Fitz would like to have this worked out before DC winds down for the Holiday's, and if I am correct that only leaves today, Friday, Wednesday and Friday of next week. So like you said in an earlier post from above, the full moon may be working in our favor now and all parties interested in this case should sit up and take notice, because there really may be a Santa Clause for Fitzmas this year.

May I ask what your quick thoughts are on the following:

Able Danger and Weldon? it seems that Lou Snobbs is the only one that I have seen cover this lately and according to Weldon the DOD is gonna let the AD people and officers testify before congress or at least the senate. People don't like Weldon because they think he going after Clinton. I keep telling people this isn't about left and right it is about right and wrong and if people from our side go down then so be it, because DC needs some serious house cleaning.

Abramoff? the last time I read it sounded like another guy is gonna flip in addition to Scanlon. your thoughts please

Delay, yeah Earle has got him tied up right now but what are the real possibility that Delay gets time from Earle or even better from the Abramoff scandal.

Also any ramifications from these two scandals would be appreciated.

Do you think Conyers is gonna get anywhere with this? http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002148.htm

I know I ask a lot, but I know you read a lot, also I feel that there are other scandals right now that I am forgetting to ask about but these are the ones I think about on a daily basis. I will add more later if I think of them.

Thanx again and keep fighting the GOOD fight

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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
37. Kick
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
40. WHIG -ing out .....
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Aah, The Typical American Family
Any sibling rivalry?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. One can hope. n/t
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