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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:44 PM
Original message
Why does fascism keep coming back?
Anyone with any ideas?
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, I have an idea.
It's a matter of uber-control.

Control control control.

Can't stand emotions, a little mess, debate, etc.....
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. It's like, we beat it down, and then it just comes right back.
You'd think that people would learn to recognize those tell-tale signs, but they just don't seem to.
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. It's a human condition, it rises from basic conditions newly each time
Edited on Thu Dec-15-05 08:11 PM by Cronus Protagonist
Today's fascism isn't the same fascism that arose in Germany or Italy or Russia.

So it's not the same fascism being stomped down and coming back up. It's a condition that arises when a small, powerful and moneyed group of people attempt to prevent a perceived situation in the future where they don't have the power, gold faucets in the bathroom, and wage slaves working for them any more.

That's a future so horrible and disgusting to them that they believe ANYTHING they can do to prevent it should not only be done, it MUST be done - even if it means the most horrible wars and global unrest (which they won't have to die in). And if there's a chance that they could install themselves as the ultimate heirs and controllers of the entire output of the human race forever and ever, then that's all the better (to them).

Basically, when there's lots of money on the table, money to be made, kept or lost and you have a cabal of exceedingly wealthy industrialists or capitalists or whoever that are interested in taking over the world and at the very least, protecting their global financial empires, fascism is the result.

They can buy governments, armies and take all the riches they want. You or I might find that abhorrent, but for some people, they beleive it's their right, their destiny, their obligation even.

Robber Barons is the old name for them, and it still works today.


http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!


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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. Fascism never left.
Citizens of the United States and the German Nazis worked together secretly for decades.

Part of the Bush fortune came from Prescott Bush's trading with the enemy; Brown Brothers Harriman was part of a money scheme with I. E. Farben. No less a personage than John Loftus declares that the Bush family owes reparations of at least $5,000,000 to Holocaust sufferers. (As an aside, it was the Americans who exported the idea of eugenics to Germany, not the other way around...a fact that seems to have disappeared from consciousness somehow.)

The US used Nazi intelligence officers to gather intelligence on the Soviet Union, and the Nazi scientists were employed in US weapons programmes. General Rheinhard Galen and his collection of thugs (including Claus Barbie, who was hidden by the US in Bolivia) passed intelligence to the US for decades, a great deal of it either self serving or totally false (does this sound like...oh, I don't know...Chalabi?). This is not speculation, but fact, and documents released from the American government's secrecy into the public sphere in the latter part of the 1990's proves that it is fact.

German scientists were also examined, and although criminals were to be excluded from the programme, it turns out that the records were whitewashed and these men were recruited by the US. Arthur Rudolph was one of those men...the scientist who helped the US put a man on the moon. Rudolph controlled the exploitation of labour from a concentration camp, and many of the workers used by him died because of the conditions under which they worked...and those slave labourers were the people who built the rockets raining down on London. His US citizenship was revoked, and he returned to his native Germany.

The need and desire for weapons and intelligence trumped any ethical considerations, including truth.

That hasn't changed. The only thing that has changed is that the US has grown closer in purpose and method to the Nazi apparatus.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #30
38. It's both, i think
If fascism would ever "leave" then it would reoccur, since it does have to do with 'the human condition' - it's because of 'the human condition' that it exists in the first place.
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't think it's ever left
it just seems we take one step foward and 3 steps back.
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. Path of least Resistance
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. people who feel they have no control want to control everyone else
the less comfortable they are with reality, the more they want to make reality into what is comforting, by force... but reality doesn't bend like that
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Yep, that's the one
You just train people to focus on all those "other" people whose proclivities they don't share, and they're yours.

You give people permission to hate and offer them a target, then they'll oblige you by doing just that.

This has been proven time and time again.

Then you allow the rich to run riot and stripmine the economy.
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tjwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. Because people allow it to.
People forget the past, and want to feel safe. Fascism makes people under it feel safe, as long as they are the race/religion/creed that the fascists are. Remember, a fascist dictatorship never starts overnight. Case in point, after 9-11 I was more appalled with how many people came right out and said that they would give up some of their rights and freedoms to feel safer, than I was with the actual attack. There is a reason this current group of thieves evokes it every single minute that they can. It scares some people still to this day, and makes them want to run to big brother for protection.
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DJ MEW Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's the allure of power and wealth
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I think that's a huge part.
They use greed- You TOO can boss other people around.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. Why did we absorb so much of the German intelligence
service when Germany fell?? Common goals strange bedfellows make. Like someone said, control, control freaks, living the fear driven life... who knows?


Fascism:
"A philosophy or system of government that is marked by stringent social and economic control, a strong, centralized government usually headed by a dictator, and often a policy of belligerent nationalism."
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. Just like murder, adultery, gluttony etc. it is a facet of human nature.
We'll never be entirely rid of it, or people with fascist leanings and ambitions, as well as those who would be willing subjects and followers of such leaders.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. Because enough of them didn't DIE in WWII.
However to quote Woody Guthrie through Billy Bragg...


I’m gonna tell all you fascists you may be surprised
The people in this world are getting organized
You’re bound to lose, you fascists are bound to lose

Race hatred cannot stop us this one thing I know
Your poll tax and jim crow and greed have got to go
You’re bound to lose, you fascists bound to lose

All of you fascists bound to lose
You fascists bound to lose
All of you fascists bound to lose
You fascists bound to lose
You’re bound to lose! you fascists!
Bound to lose

People of every colour marching side by side
Marching ’cross these fields where a million fascists died
You’re bound to lose, you fascists bound to lose


I’m going into this battle, and take my union gun
We’ll end this world of slavery before this battle’s won
You’re bound to lose, you fascists bound to lose

Words: woody guthrie (1942) - music: billy bragg (1997)
---------------------------

Yeah those FASCIST are gonna fucking LOSE!

Forever I hope, someday they'll all be GONE!

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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
51. Man. I LOVE Woody Guthrie. The man was an icon.
We need one of him right now.


:kick::kick::kick:
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
13. Barbara's Bush?
:shrug:
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. Easy it is because the wealthy few are paranoid about loosing
their privileged positions. They know they do not have the skills to survive in a fair world. That is why they use their wealth to prop up FASCIST thugs to maintain their positions of power and influence. As long as we allow money to influence our political process we are susceptible to the corrosive power of money.
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
15. A good question...
... and the first reason, to my mind, is that it never has entirely left us.

From a psychological standpoint, some people greatly desire order, and that creates authoritarian impulses. That's a starting point. From that, add in most of the seven deadly sins--greed, avarice, etc. The people who have been most fond of fascism, here and elsewhere, are the wealthy and powerful. Their needs to maintain and increase their wealth, and the authoritarian nature of corporations (in the old days, "trusts"), encourages them to believe that they alone can order society.

It's interesting, for example, that when the plot was being hatched to overthrow FDR, the plan drawn up was for the military to seize the government and maintain order, and when FDR had been removed, that the country would be run by a panel of prominent businessmen in place of the president. I suppose the thinking goes something like, "I'm the absolute master within the domain of my business and I've been very successful and made lots of money, so I know how to order a society in ways that will benefit it and myself." Of course, that's a false tautology, and the actual desire is for a legalized cronyism (which is pretty much what fascism is).

The followers, way down on the ladder of success, find reflected glory in the powerful and wish to emulate them, and are therefore willing to enforce the authoritarianism necessary to keep such a system operating. That's pretty much what happened in Italy and Germany, and what motivated sympathizers in this country.

Cheers.

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MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. That's a very thoughtful answer, especially the reflected glory part.
Thanks. :toast:
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Well, it's not really my idea...
Edited on Thu Dec-15-05 08:43 PM by punpirate
... Eric Hoffer said it a long time ago in The True Believer. His notion of the psychology was that the true believer thinks of his own life as wasted and irredeemable by his own efforts, and seeks to find redemption by identifying with and carrying out the wishes of charismatic leaders.

Cheers.


edit for meaning and syntax.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. Isn't that the same attraction some have to religion? The desire for
order or the answers? And organized religions take advantage of there followers by trying to project that only they can 'order a society in ways that will benefit it' and themselves?
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Well, yeah, cultish and extremist religions...
... attract such people. If I can lean of Hoffer once again, he doesn't make much distinction between the political, social or religious true believer, because the roots of their impulses are the same. They simply pick demagogic, charismatic leaders who appeal to their individual desires.

Cheers.
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think its the result of very powerful persuasion techniques
A good PR agency knows the same tricks. Convince people its them against a ruthless enemy. Convince them that questioning authority puts them in danger.
One can learn how to create propaganda from a book now.

One only has to look at the amount of mind control fascists like Rash Limbaugh have on their followers. All that stuff on Rash about him being right all the time and being some genius professor is part of the persuasion technique. People with authoritarian personalities are deeply influenced by a strong leader.

Since propaganda is designed to take over the victim's emotions, it becomes so deeply ingrained that the victim no longer thinks for himself.

The propaganda itself starts from a group who wishes power and doesn't care how they get it. In the end, the group will be seduced by its own power. The lies will get bigger. The followers will have more of an emotional investment at stake in not believing they've been used all along. About then the real trouble starts.
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MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
18. Fascists are the folks who think ANYTHING can be bought.
So sad, they will rot in hell. Too bad about the rest of us though.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
20. I believe that humankind's recent history
is an anomoly (republics, democracies, etc.) and fascism or at least totalitarianism was the rule for millenia.
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guidod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
21. FEAR...
People accept fear to easily. Most are manipulated by fear.
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Taxloss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
23. Hey, it's only been around 85 years.
Early days yet. Still ironing out the kinks.
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
24. i think it has to do with a sick mind in need of power and control...
and they (hitler, mussolini, stalin, castro, bush) know how to go about slowly spreading the chains that will eventually control people...it also has to do with greed which may be an offshoot of power and control, and it also has to do with feeling threatened, as in the case of bush and all the rest who feel threatened by anyone who expressess a different view.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
42. Just like captialism was the privatization of ownership of the means ...
... of production, fascism is the privatization of powers and privileges (i.e. entitlements) once held by monarchies. As has been shown throughout human history, those who hold the authority (either ownership or privilege) are corrupted by its power. At least in the days of monarchies, there was some mythical belief that 'God' defended the annointed from such corruptions. Well, we saw how well that worked. The mythology, however, had some ameliorative impact ... one which is totally absent in fascism. The most 'benign' fascist was Franco ... and he was a despot.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
25. Fear is a man's best friend
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
46. and worst enemy.
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solinvictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
26. But...
there's as much of an authoritarian tendency on the left as well (gun control, "hate speech" laws, etc.). Control is not unique to any particular ideology. Mao was a leftist and his policies made Hitler at his worst look like an amateur. For that matter, even Fidel is defended by some here.
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tlsmith1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
27. Because Power-Hungry People Will Always...
...take advantage of others when they feel vulnerable.
That is how fascism thrives. What is sad for me is that I really used to think fascism would never take hold in the US. Was I ever wrong. :(

Tammy
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LostInAnomie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
31. It appeals to our darkest, laziest nature
It's easy to fall in line behind a strong leader.

It's easy to blame the victims instead of developing a social conscious.

It's easy to live by imposed morality instead of developing your own sense of right and wrong.

It's easy to look for scape goats instead of real solutions.

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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
32. Because corporations keep staying around
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
33. Because of political philosophers like Michael Ledeen....
Edited on Thu Dec-15-05 10:43 PM by AntiFascist
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/themix/28976


On what Americans are from Michael Ledeen: "Creative destruction is our middle name, both within our own society and abroad. We tear down the old order every day, from business to science, literature, art, architecture, and cinema to politics and the law. Our enemies have always hated this whirlwind of energy and creativity, which menaces their traditions (whatever they may be) and shames them for their inability to keep pace. Seeing America undo traditional societies, they fear us, for they do not wish to be undone. They cannot feel secure so long as we are there, for our very existence -- our existence, not our politics -- threatens their legitimacy. They must attack us in order to survive, just as we must destroy them to advance our historic mission." -- From his book “The War Against the Terror Masters”



Notice that he's not talking about fighting terror, he's talking about destroying the "old order."

On edit: I should point out that Ledeen is a master of deception. By keeping the US at perpetual war he is insuring that the old military-industrial order of the US not only stays in place, but becomes even more powerful through profiteering.


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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
34. the few with real power and money....
....don't like you, me or democracy....
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
35. I have one.
If women and the disenfranchised don't have an equal voice in the affairs of state or religion, the greedy men will take over and implement their will.

This is a start. Anytime you have a group of people who are subject to another group of people it will lead to facism because their voice has been silenced.

The Greeks, who invented the idea of democracy, didn't extend it to everyone, especially not women, so along came Alexander who found them easy pickings. The Roman patricians replaced kings with a republic and ended up with an emperor because their government by representation didn't extend to everyone.

Until the least of us has an equal voice in our affairs we will have facism raise it's ugly face. Just having a vote isn't enough. Every one needs true representation to keep the forces of facism a small minority and subsequently ineffective.
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MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Good point.
Do you think instant run off voting might lend itself to achieving that? It helps dilute the power of special interests.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Instant run off voting would be a big part of the solution.
I hope we can get it sooner rather than later.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
37. capitalism
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KitchenWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 04:00 AM
Response to Original message
39. Power corrupts
absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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Rocknrule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
41. To quote the most recent Harry Potter book
"You can't destroy evil, but you can keep it at bay"
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
43. We only left the muck of the primordial ooze
Edited on Fri Dec-16-05 01:12 PM by annces8
recently. And we are not yet our brother's keeper yet.

just my 2 cents.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
44. Because the same group of people are always somehow in charge.
.
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
45. Most republics become empires eventually
With history as our guide.
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
47. fascism never goes away, it just gets restrained
Edited on Fri Dec-16-05 01:17 PM by Neil Lisst
There is a solid 25% of Americans who live and breathe fascism. When their side gets control, they push for fascist steps, and get some. This time, they are aided by a great fear, not unlike the phenomenon the country experienced in the 1950s,overreacting to communism.


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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
48. Nationalism (aka "patriotism") is very popular.
Flags, songs, symbols, racism, and especially fear work for politicians.
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newportdadde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
49. Its part of our human nature.
Most of this have experienced this to a smaller degree in our own lives/jobs. There are those who will do anything to advance to make it to the top of the pile. Once there the entire existance of that person, all of their energy, goes to maintaining that spot and fighting off the other folks like themselves that want it. They may not be particularly bright but they have drive and a set of priorities that is set with where they want to go.

That is why facism never goes away.. if you magically took regular people, people who believe in spending time with family, living by the golden rule etc and put them in those positions of power perhaps for a time at least it would go away unless those folks also became corupted or knocked down from the top of the file.

As long as compaines hell life reward that type of mentality it will never stop.
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Dora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
50. Because we fail to execute the fascists. n/t
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
52. Natural process of power
Power centralizes and consolidates. That's all it does. Power always wants to make everything else like itself. Merging business and government, or church and state, or whatever, is normal.

The only way to stop it is for it to collapse on it's own(that's why every empire will always fade away eventually), or for another giant center of power to defeat it(which is why we have war). Laws and legislation won't do it. Over time, power is able to change laws. It may be in 5 minutes, or in 5 years, or in 250 years, but it will happen. Power never dies, it never has to feed its children, worry about bills to pay, eat, sleep, or take a breath. All power does is try and obtain more power, so that it can acquire more power at a future date.

It will never go away. We will all waste our limited lives on this tiny blue planet stuck in an unknown arm of one galaxy among billions trying to fight against it.

http://www.bigskyastroclub.org/pale_blue_dot.htm

"We succeeded in taking that picture , and, if you look at it, you see a dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever lived, lived out their lives. The aggregate of all our joys and sufferings, thousands of confident religions, ideologies and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lived there on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.

The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of the dot on scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner of the dot. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity -- in all this vastness -- there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. It is up to us. It's been said that astronomy is a humbling, and I might add, a character-building experience. To my mind, there is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly and compassionately with one another and to preserve and cherish that pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

-Carl Sagan
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:42 PM
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53. Because some let down in their vigilence to uphold freedom's principles.
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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:04 PM
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54. Because of binaries
In each contextual epistemology exists the possibility for people to create binary-oppositional constructs. In other words, "rich" and "not rich," "poor" and "not poor." The most relevant of the binaries, however is "good," and "not good," -- the primary value assignment, which can be used to assign value (or lack thereof) to each half of all the other binaries.

When someone thinks in terms of binaries, and comes to equate one half of a binary with "good," in every case, this is called totalitarian thinking. A person who does this often, and with many binaries is said to have a "totalitarian mindset." An ideology exists when a group of binaries are cobbled together into a set.

The problem is, in each and pretty much every case, each half of a binary is subject to being labeled "good" or "not good." Perception and authority are responsible for institutionalizing binaries, making them "constructs," or something that a large population believes to be true, even though, fundamentally, the designation is arbitrary. Perception determines the individual's value assignments, which can be assigned through independent research, persuasion, indoctrination -- whatever is possible, and whatever one wants to call it. Authorities are those who have been given the power, whether through trust or force, to institutionalize constructs, or make them the "perceived norm."

When a person or group has an "ideology," they attempt to disseminate this ideology, or group of constructs to as many people as will suit their needs. In the case of consolidating power and money, there seems to be no upper limit on how many people are necessary.

Psychologists tell us that the human psyche is INCREDIBLY susceptible to binary thinking, or black-and-white thinking, or totalitarian thinking. There is a psychological condition, within the individual called "splitting and projecting." Meaning that when a person divides things into binaries, he or she will assign them a value binary. Depending on the cultural context, the person may try to do everything that he or she can to associate their personal identity with the halves of the binaries designated as "good." Often times, this is not possible, due to the nature of the individual -- some might say humanity of the individual -- or perhaps a biological proclivity or physical or psychological condition that makes it unlikely that that person might acheive, at all times, the "good" half of the binary. In many cases, the subject will "split and project," meaning that once the binaries are designated, the subject will recognize his or her own failings, and the feelings of greif, anger, powerlessness, biterness will be projected onto the "not good" half of the binary. When the subject encounters another person or perceived group of people (where it is most likley, because of dehumanization), the subject will scapegoat the individual or group, assigning not the condition, but the actual person or group, with a value.

This explains, for instance homophobia. In many cases, if someone has had same-sex desires that make them uncomfortable, or if they are latently homosexual, while, at the same time, assigning a "good" value judgment to heterosexuality, they may be more likely to be violent, discriminatory or hateful toward homosexuals.

Now, the authority, whether parental, religious or institutional/governmental that indoctrinated the individual with that particular set of binaries has had the power to shape the mindset of that individual. The ability to shape the mindset of large groups of people is KEY to consolidating power and resources and money, and motivating people to do whatever one wants.

If people are thought of in terms of aggregate, instead of in terms of individual, it is most necessary to work on the aggregate level. There are five primary institutions in the western world that have authority on the aggregate level: corporation, church, government, school (or intellectual, or educational institution) and media.

A person who wanted the power to disseminate constructs would seek to overtake each one of these institutions to get them all "in line," with the designated program.

Fascism is a totalitarian ideology that has traditionally been flagged with the following things: cultural or racial supremacism, sweeping narrative or magical thinking, obedience to authority, paternalism, order and hierarchy, conflated and colluding busines and governmental spheres, military force and dispensationalism.

The presence of the rich does not fascism make. Neither do epidemics of racism, hate crimes, homophobia, etc. As many posters have stated, in this thread, fascism changes faces. But the most defining characteristic of fascism is that a set of constructs are used to propagandize subjects, and then force is used to clean up either a) the people who cannot fit into the program or b) refuse to fit into the program. The goal, in the case of the Nazis, was to kill the offending groups. In the US, currently, it seems that the goal is to incarcerate the offending groups (which is how the Nazis started out) by broadening police and surveillance powers (hello, Patriot Act), and criminalizing more and more things. The things that are largely criminalized, if you will notice, are not just "crimes against others," but crimes that disrupt the cultural supremacism of the dominant group, which I would argue is the individual family home, at the peak of its possible consumption, adhering to Judeo-Christian constructs and being willing to completely support the cause.

The things that are criminalized are not just attempts to infringe on others' bodily and property rights, but things that may cause the individual not to complete the full indoctrination: pornography, drug use, euthanasia, homosexual relations or marriage -- and now even forming a group to discuss or protest is under assault. If you look really closely, you can see the effect of Republicans and their ideology. Consumerism is almost never criminalized, unless it conflicts with another interest, such as religious interest OR, in the case of the feds busting up storefronts in Florida, that helped seniors buy prescriptions, business interests. Work is almost never criminalized -- despite outcries from both the left and the right, illegal workers continue to flourish, in the US.

Labor force and consumers are the two key ingredients for concentrating wealth.

Anyway, this is all an aside -- what I mean to say, to answer your question -- is that fascism keeps coming back, because binary making, and value assignment is a cornerstone of the human psychological condition. Since I'm not an absolutist, I will not say that it is natural, or that there cannot be any other way -- there simply isn't, for the time being. Mass media makes it harder for critical thinking to flourish, encourages homogenization, and is an excellent tool for forwarding ideology.

In my opinion, one answer is to always be suspicious of authority, no matter how convincing, potentially useful, or altruistic that authority may seem. Any time a large number of people vest power in an institution, there is the possibility that that institution can be corrupted by those with a different ideology. Money makes it easier. But none of it will go away until both the left and the right abandon the idea of authority.

Remember the Suskind quote? There are THOUSANDS of hits, when you google "we're an empire now." People know that the phrase uttered by the Bush advisor is the most bare, candid look into the belly of the beast. It is MORE than fascinating that the GOP, which relies on absolutism in religion, culture and order to selling its program, know, as well, that there is no center. The neocons -- the smarties that they are (and they are smart) -- are truly postmodern rulers, for a truly postmodern age:

"In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend – but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

"The aide said that guys like me were 'in what we call the reality-based community,' which he defined as people who 'believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. 'That's not the way the world really works anymore,' he continued. 'We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality – judiciously, as you will – we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.'"



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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:13 PM
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55. Ask Santa for Lakoff's book "Moral Politics"
for Chr-- the Holidays. :D
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