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A lesson for America in Ancient Athens?

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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 12:59 AM
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A lesson for America in Ancient Athens?

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free." -- Sir Edward Gibbon (1737-1794)
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:02 AM
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1. it looks like we'll go the way of BOTH Sparta and Athens--
in their worse years
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:04 AM
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4. Sure looks like George Santayana was absolutely right.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it....
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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. The corollary to Santayana's observation, though, is. . .
that those who learn their history are doomed to watching repeats.

Eadem, sed aliter. Schopenhauer explains:
The same things differently. History’s motto.
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othermeans Donating Member (858 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:03 AM
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2. Also they were involved in those nasty little imperialist wars that
eventually broke them and turned the rest of the Greeks against them.
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TimeChaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:03 AM
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3. The democracy of Athens was doomed
the moment they tried to be an empire at the same time.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:04 AM
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5. Yes, the rich and the GOP rich wannabees.
They want to give all the responsibility to the government. Their version of their savior.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:08 AM
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6. I recommended this because it is something that everyone . . .
should read and take to heart . . . a concise summary of where we're heading as a nation . . .
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Which is really scary in fact
And don't forget the 1940's Germany. That's even scarier. If you want to be shitted by the book "Night" by Elie Wiesel.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. It is worse now because the rich will never defend the U.S.
They will leave it to a volunteer military. Most of whom hopes to pimp themselves to the military at a shot at educational help.
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:06 AM
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10. More like Rome
We’re not like Athens. Gibbon, in the quote cited here, isn’t referring to all Athenians, but only those who mattered in Athens, i.e. the male elite. Though usually thought of as a democracy, Athens was really a sort of oligarchy or aristocracy, depending upon how you look at things. The vices Gibbon refers to are the vices of an aristocracy. What they would call a comfortable life would have been something like what we find in Epicurean philosophy, whereas our notions of comfort are more hedonistic.

Like the US, Rome was a mass society, driven by its belly and the desire to be entertained (i.e., to avoid boredom). Bread and circuses. We are much more like Rome than Athens.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. Frankln and Jefferson understood this
they studied the Classics, we no longer do... history is boring...
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