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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 09:38 AM
Original message
Orwell was a PROPHET!
Report: Bush eased domestic spy rules after 9/11
Eavesdropping allowed without search warrants, NYT says

Friday, December 16, 2005; Posted: 3:22 a.m. EST (08:22 GMT)

NEW YORK (AP) -- President Bush authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States -- without getting search warrants -- following the Sept. 11 attacks, The New York Times reports.

The presidential order, which Bush signed in 2002, has allowed the agency to monitor the international phone calls and international e-mails of hundreds, and perhaps thousands, of people inside the United States, according to a story posted Thursday on the Times' Web site.

Before the new program began, the NSA typically limited its domestic surveillance to foreign embassies and missions and obtained court orders to do so. Under the post-Sept. 11 program, the NSA has eavesdropped, without warrants, on as many 500 people inside the United States at any given time. Overseas, 5,000 to 7,000 people suspected of terrorist ties are monitored at one time.

<snip>

Caroline Fredrickson, director of the Washington legislative office of the American Civil Liberties Union, said the group's initial reaction to the disclosure was "shock that the administration has gone so far in violating American civil liberties to the extent where it seems to be a violation of federal law."

<snip>

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/16/bush.nsa.ap/index.html

It can no longer be denied, George Orwell was the most accurate prophet in human history!
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. Eventually all democracies coalesce into an authoritarian empire
Orwell did great job of illustrating how it can be pulled off.
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. At first I thought: No wonder employment #'s were up a bit last quarter!
That was until I realized that these wiretap and e-mail spy jobs are outsourced to India by Halliburton on behalf of the Carlyle Group under the DunkinDonuts brand.

It's all paid for in the Homeland Security Department budget.

Get this: W even gets to remain a small business owner out of this deal!
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
3. Orwell drew on bitter experience
from the crushing of his idealism in the Spanish Civil War, the prequel to WWII. Had the west not rallied and defeated the Axis, the co-option of democracy would have hastened and perfected his vision of the trajectory of totalitarian power whatever its flavor of the month. the impetus was not stopped after the victory of WWII, thereby making Orwell's pessimism endure.

Orwell for decades had been made solely a critic of communism with a wink at his withering inclusion of capitalism as oppressor. The full message had been denied and thus insured a chance of complete fulfillment as still threatens us today minus the Communist monolith. Instead it looks to be eventually a solely corporate regional eternal war, unsustainable but by the rules of capitalism triumphant- even obligatory.

And messily doomed unlike the cold total victory of tyranny gloomily envisioned by Orwell.
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tmooses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Working in a large corporation during the last 30 years I always
thought Orwell's model was borne out not in government but the private sector. Through the endless buzzwords, reframing,mass-marketing and denial of individual expression it all seemed like the corporate execs had read the same script. Now the corporations have bought out the government and have their stooge in place to do their bidding.
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orwell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks!
It was nothing...really...
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
6. Rumour has it that the NSA and GCHQ, the British equivalent
(Government Communications Headquarters) have always eavesdropped on each other's populations, to get round domestic spying laws, and then fed the results to each other.
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Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Read 'Chatter'
It explains just that. The NSA has even been eavesdropping on members of Congress.
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
7. You know what scares me most, when one starts thinking along those
Edited on Fri Dec-16-05 11:15 AM by converted_democrat
lines? What are the true intentions behind the Patriot Act? It scares me to even think about it.

edited for my spelling issues
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Welcome!
To the Brave New World.

Please, take my seat. Here, I've warmed it up for you.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
9. this is so sad
although I am not convinced it's anything new either. I imagine they've spied on US citizens for decades, and it's just now coming to light.

The worst part: so many people seem to not care, or to assume that it's ok because "it's just a bunch of hippies/protestors/whatever" that are being spied upon.

I don't get it, especially since this is generally the response I've gotten from my right wing gun friends. I guess it's true: they really don't care as long as it isn't them, and don't see the bigger picture - that their own party does not care a wink for them and will gladly sell them up the river for some profit.
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
11. Doubleplusgood!
No thoughtcrimes from the proles!
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
12. Would W be beyond ordering FBI or CIA DU members to monitor DU?
Edited on Fri Dec-16-05 02:43 PM by The Judged
After all, wherever there is dissent, there's sure to be terra!
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