********OFFICIAL CSPAN-2 PATRIOT ACT2 here DEBATE THREAD PART 3*********

#2 here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5612696&mesg_id=5612696

:kick:

:toast: :pals: :yourock: :patriot:

:hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

he was a senator. :blush:

* won't sign a short term extention...bullsh*t! He'll sign!

He doesn't want any trouble so he'll have to sign.

in the wh- took an OATH- for gods sake- our rights were 'supposedly- "temporarily" suspended ' post 9/11-

Pushing his agenda against the will of the people, is treason- flat out treason.

His oath, is to preserve protect and DEFEND the constitution- not dismantle it-

There's no need to be surprised. Expect them to behave overtly - with only token resistance.

about now?

quoting Byron

asks him about the imminent death of the "Patriot" Act and spying on Americans! This ought to be a not good press weekend for the Bushneviks!

WOOHOO!

:toast::toast::toast::toast::toast::toast:

Now keep it up!

:hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo: :toast: :toast: :toast: :applause: :applause: :applause:

I can't believe it went from him and Reid to this point. I <3 Feingold! He should get flowers now too.

:woohoo:

Guess who's getting a donation from me today? That's right, it's Russ.

If you don't know about it, check out this link for Russ' Progressive Patriots fund:
http://www.progressivepatriotsfund.com/

:toast:

All of you Nazis, FUCK YOU!

In order to to obtain the absolute power they sought without possessing a majority in the Reichstag, the Nazis devised the Enabling Act as the mechanism to circumvent the Reichstag by granting the chancellor and his cabinet authority to enact legislation without passage the Reichstag. As a constitutional amendment (though not specifically drafted as such), the Act would require a two-thirds majority to pass. The Social Democratic Party (SPD) and the Communist Party (KPD) had both the votes and the inclination to block such an Act. But the Nazis knew that the parties representing the middle class, the Junkers landowners and business interests had tired of the perpetual instability of the Weimar Republic and were eager to adopt such an extraordinary measure to end the ongoing parliamentary logjam, or at a minimum, would muster only tepid opposition.

<snip>

Hitler negotiated with the Centre Party's chairman, Catholic priest Ludwig Kaas, finalizing an agreement by March 22. Kaas agreed to support the Act in exchange for the Nazi's promise to help them achieve civil recognition of Catholics and Catholicism, as well as instituting quotas and protections for Catholic civil servants and schools. The Centre Party also asked Hitler to maintain constitutional protections of civil liberties. Debate within the Centre itself continued until March 23, when ex-chancellor Heinrich Brüning denounced the Enabling Act as treachery of the worst order, calling for the Reichstag's assembly to be postponed until cooler heads could prevail. Kaas nevertheless claimed a written guarantee would come from Hitler. Brüning, with his own long history of interaction with Hitler, warned Kaas to ensure he received it before the vote, but agreed to maintain party discipline by voting for the Act.
Later that day, the Reichstag assembled under intimidating circumstances, with SA men swarming inside and outside the chamber. Hitler's speech, which emphasised the importance of Christianity in German culture, was aimed particularly at assuaging the Centre Party's sensibilities and almost verbatim incorprated Kaas' requested guarantees. Kaas gave a speech, voicing the Centre's support for the bill amid "concerns put aside", while Brüning notably remained silent. Only Otto Wels of the SPD spoke against the Act. Kaas had still not received the written constitutional guarantees he had negotiated, but with the assurance it was being "typed up", voting began. Kaas never received the letter.

<snip>

It is equally indicative of the care that the Nazis took to give their dictatorship an appearance of legality that the Enabling Act was formally prolonged twice by the Reichstag beyond the 1937 date. Though the law had given legislative powers to the government as a whole and not to the chancellor, these powers were effectively in Hitler's hands. Formal cabinet meetings were rare during the whole Third Reich and non-existent during World War II.
The passing of the Enabling Act reduced the Reichstag to a stage for announcements and made political parties superfluous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act

History is repeating itself. 9/11 is the new Reichstag Fire.

My sister works for Homeland Security. I actually took part in a counterterrorism exercise there, and I know many of the people she works with.

They are not a Gestapo or anything like it.

I think their surveillance is too pervasive and a little too widespread and bloated, but I do trust that the people who work there are not in dark conspiracy to spy on the American people in order to "control" them.

I, along with you, celebrate this ruling -- I am amazed at the level of surveillance my sister and her Homeland staff have been using across America, and the militarization of the police. One report of hers I read:


"Police need to stop having the 'fisherman' mentality and adapt the 'hunter' mentality."

The other stressed the need for all policemen to be prepared with both overt and secret presence to stop suicide terrorism at every place at every time.

This IS the police state and I think it is a dangerous thing, but it is not malevolent in the way of a secret police or others. It's simply the brainchild of extreme ideology by people who place fighting terror as an object for a one-track mind that disregards all else.

December 16, 2005
Key Patriot Act provisions rejected by Senate

By JESSE J. HOLLAND
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - The Senate on Friday rejected attempts to reauthorize several provisions of the USA Patriot Act as infringing too much on Americans' privacy and liberty, dealing a huge defeat to the Bush administration and Republican leaders.

In a crucial vote early Friday, the bill's Senate supporters were not able to get the 60 votes needed to overcome a threatened filibuster by Sens. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., and Larry Craig, R-Idaho, and their allies. The final vote was 52-47.

President Bush, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and Republicans congressional leaders had lobbied fiercely to make most of the expiring Patriot Act provisions permanent, and add new safeguards and expiration dates to the two most controversial parts: roving wiretaps and secret warrants for books, records and other items from businesses, hospitals and organizations such as libraries.

Feingold, Craig and other critics said that wasn't enough, and have called for the law to be extended in its present form so they can continue to try and add more civil liberties safeguards. But Bush, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and House Speaker Dennis Hastert have said they won't accept a short-term extension of the law.

more - http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=81823

:hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

They don't seem to have any problems simply carrying on with the debate.

in a positive fashion? They never need to forget that we, the little people, can give just as much as the corporations.

http://www.progressivepatriotsfund.com/

(I'm not trying to tell you what to do with your money--just letting you know this exists too, if you didn't know about it already).

We potentially have a 52-48 vote. 5 republicans voted NAY, so even if they changed their votes, and dumbass Nelson stays as YES, it would be 57-43 - we still have 2 votes leeway!

Doesn't it seem that if the only reason to turn down a three-month extension is that the Prez won't sign it that the PREZ can be held responsible if we don't have any Patriot Act at all? It seems a twisted bit of logic for Frist to hold dems responsible in such a case. (So what's new, huh?)

But I still am not clear if there is some other reason why the three-month extension cannot fly.

who voted against cloture. It's a blatent threat on his part.

opposing cloture.

Here's the entire list:
Larry Craig
John Sununu
Lisa Murkowski
Chuck Hagel
Barak Obama
Dick Durbin
Russell Feingold
Ken Salazar
John Kerry

Here is part of the letter, dated December 14, 2005:

It is not too late to remedy the problems with the conference report and pass a reauthorization package that we can all support. The House could take up and pass the bill the Senate adopted by unanimous consent in July, or, if the additional modest but critical improvements to the conference report that the original cosponsors of the SAFE Act laid out prior to Thanksgiving are made, we believe the conference report can easily and quickly pass both the House and the Senate this month.

We appreciate that since Thanksgiving, the conferees agreed to include four-year sunsets of three controversial provisions rather than seven-year sunsets. But we should not just make permanent or, in the case of three provisions, extend for another four years the most controversial provisions of the Patriot Act. The sunsets this year provide our best opportunity to make the meaningful changes to the Patriot Act that the American public has demanded. Now is the time to fix these provisions. We urge you to join us in opposing cloture on the conference report, and in supporting our call for the conferees to make additional improvements.

We still have the opportunity to pass a good reauthorization bill this year. But to do so, we must stop this conference report, which falls short of the meaningful reforms that need to be made. We must ensure that when we do reauthorize the Patriot Act,we do it right. We still can and must-
make sure that our laws give law enforcement agents the tools they need while providing safeguards to protect the constitutional rights of all Americans.


::clap, clap, clap:: Good job, Senators! And a special thanks to those Republicans who were courageous enough to stand up against their own party against those who would take away our civil liberties!

:hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

:D