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Letting Kids believe in Santa vs. that America was Founded Justly

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Yollam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:00 PM
Original message
Letting Kids believe in Santa vs. that America was Founded Justly
Which is the greater disservice to our kids:


Letting them believe in Santa?

or teaching them a whitewashed version of history in which benevolent Europeans "settled" here, befriending the "good Indians", while occasionally warring with the "warlike ones", when the truth is that it was a slow-motion genocidal invasion?


Do I need to tell you which of these disillusioned me more when I learned the truth?
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. The latter....but after flamefests in that other thread.....
Edited on Fri Dec-16-05 01:07 PM by jus_the_facts
....I am reminded yet again...none of it really matters...because the same bad shit that happened eons ago is still happening...just in new and improved ways today..same shit..different millennia. :nopity:
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pocket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. no flame here
I agree
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Thank you....
Edited on Fri Dec-16-05 01:17 PM by jus_the_facts
....I amaze m'self in that I still bother arguing about it all anyway...sigh. :hi:

:banghead:
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triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm with you, singed hair and all...
I've yet to know what harm, what lasting harm, what short term harm, any harm, is done when a kid finds out there is no Santa. For my kids, it was a coming of age, all of a sudden you could begin to talk about Christmas in a sense of being something other than "me" centered. Santa is the ultimate figure of childhood selfishness, that's ok to a point, but why prolong it?

Ah yes, the friendly and benevolent 'taming' of the west.
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orwell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I Liked Santa...
:cry:
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triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I liked the concept...
but was from a family situation in which the expectation was rarely met. I don't think I suffered ill for moving past that. Its a stage, somewhat unique to our culture, that we so devote attention to a retailing mythology. Its fun for a while, but not worth delaying the transition to something else. I'm no scrooge, believe me, but was happier when our kids learned about giving to less fortunate as a part of the holidays, rather than the whining, badgering, over every toy in the world.
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orwell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I Guess...
...I associate Santa with a sense of childlike wonder...that anything is possible...

I have a very scientific, reason-based mind and always have. But its nice to remember when the world was still magic...

Happy Holidays Tri! Peace on Earth and Good Will to all!
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tjwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yes, hello we are from the Church of England and bring you gifts...
...christianity and a host of european diseases that you have no built up immunity to.

Oh, do you have any food? We are fresh out for the winter...
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. The latter. The first can be harmless if not taken too far
I take it this was a topic on another thread, but I haven't scrolled that far down yet.

I don't like it when parents who insist to their children that Santa is real long after their child has doubts, but i have no problem with letting kids learn about the myth and believe it as long as they actually believe it. I never told my daughters that Santa was real, but I never tried to convince them he was. I never told them anything, I just played along with what they picked up in school. We never pretended Santa brought presents or was watching them or anything else. My oldest asked if Santa was real when she was five, and I asked her what she thought. She said no. I told her he was a man who lived a long time ago, and so people still honored him at Christmas by telling stories about him. Basic stuff like that. My youngest questioned it about six, and I told her basically the same thing. It was a good way to introduce them to the idea of myth, and frankly, much before five or six my kids didn't really understand what it meant to say Pokemon was not real but Bill Clinton was. Neither was real to my kids, except in abstract ways. Santa is a benign myth, and my only real problem with it is when parents lie to their kids for too long, for whatever reasons.

The whole American foundation myth is sinister, though. It was created by nationalists desperate to justify the slaughter of the late 19th century, and is continually used to build the lie of America's unerring ethical character, not to mention the supremacy of the white male (too many literature and art classes further that same myth). It's damaging to the individual and the American psyche, and it's dangerous to all non-white or non-American people in the world, since every demagogue like Bush and Reagan tap into it to incite wars and other forms of genocide.

I'm all for teaching history classes that focus on the tremendous good America has done in the world, and the significant role we have played in the transformation of political ideologies and realities. But I believe there is just as important a message in teaching kids how bad people can become in pursuit of ideals, or sometimes in pursuit of money and land. The Santa myth can be a good one, the American myth is often deadly to too many people, and one day, if that day has already come, it will bring about our destruction.
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Beware the Beast Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. Never mind the tooth fairy,
think of those poor Italian children when they discover the truth behind the rape of the Sabine women! :o
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