Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Is It 1984 Yet? -- An avatar I made after seeing today's NYT article.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
eeyore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:52 PM
Original message
Is It 1984 Yet? -- An avatar I made after seeing today's NYT article.
Here you go, it's free for the taking if anyone else wants it.



I thought of this after I saw someone's "Is It Fascism Yet?" sig line or avatar - can't remember which.

Today's NYT article about Georgie and the NSA got me to follow up on the idea.

So, have at it if you like it.

:toast:
eeyore
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Orwell was off by 20 years.
So sad...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Sometimes I wonder with Orwell
if he was warning people. Seems like it now days eh? I still need to get that book. Didn't Orwell work for the British government? Maybe he really knew stuff and wrote a "fictional" book with his pen name.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. 1984 was most definately a warning. It was a warning for all generations
against totalitarian regimes.

I often see people say stuff like "orwell would be proud" in reference to police-state action, and I always have to roll my eyes at those people and shake my head. They missed the point..

Orwell didn't write that book because he thought fascism and totalitarianism was "cool". We wrote that book as a warning to all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AllegroRondo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Unfortunately, this regime thinks its a "how-to" guide.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Orwell was writing about 1948.
He reversed the digits, and projected about the technology, but the political theory was already firmly entrenched.

--IMM
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. What would be the significance of that year?
All i know is that 1948 was the year when a secret document on foreign policy was crafted by the US State Department, which has since been de-classified. The document is very honest about the policy of exploiting Latin America and Africa for their resources, if need be by supporting dictators and military coups at the expense of democratically elected governments.

Excerpts from a debate between Noam Chomsky (quoting from these documents) and Richard Perle at The Ohio State University in 1988 (http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=8409).

Quotes from declassified State Department documents:

On the 3rd World:

"...a source of raw material and markets for the industrialist capitalist powers, to be exploited for their reconstruction"...

On Latin America:

"Prime concern is the protection of our raw materials. We have 50% of the worlds wealth but only 6% of its population, we must maintain this disparity to the extent possible, by force if necessary, putting aside vague and idealistic slogans such as human rights, raising of living standards, democratization, preferring police states if needed over democracies that might be to liberal and to indulgent to communists, the latter has lost any substantial meaning in US political rhetoric, referring simply to anyone who stands in our way."

"The primary threat to the US in Latin America is the trend towards nationalistic regimes that respond to popular demand for improvement in low living standards and production for domestic needs. That's not acceptable because the US is committed to encouraging a climate inductive to private investment, in particular guaranties for opportunity to earn and in the case of foreign capital to repatriate a reasonable return."

"We must therefore oppose what is regularly called ultra nationalism in secret documents, that means efforts to pursue domestic needs. We must foster exports or (...) production in the interests of US investors. It is recognized such programs have very little appeal to the Latin American public. So the conclusion is that we must therefore gain control over the military which can in turn control domestic opposition and overthrow civilian governments if necessary."

"One learns a lot from looking at the documentary record, and one learns a lot from the fact that certain people don't want you to look at it."
-- Noam Chomsky


If you compare those policies with what has happened since, there's a perfect match, as summarized by Harold Pinter in his lecture as winner of this year's Nobel Prize For Literature received this September:

"Since World War II, the U.S. government has supported and in many cases engendered every right-wing military dictatorship in the world. I refer to Indonesia, Greece, Uruguay, Brazil, Paraguay, Haiti, Turkey, the Philippines, Guatemala, El Salvador and, of course, Chile."
-- Harold Pinter

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. That was the year he wrote the book.
The story, as I heard it, was that 1984, the novel, was inspired by the trends in government that Orwell observed at the time. Sorry, I don't have a reference.

--IMM
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. I loved Pinter's speech, but hadn't seen the Chomsky/Perle debate.
Thank you!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. There was a thread today with speculation and some info on that:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kliljedahl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Don't forget
Government projects often run very late, even 20 years.



Keith’s Barbeque Central
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. Nope- he got it right
If you lived through the Reagan era- you'll know why.

That's where the current mess began.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Caoimhe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. Nice Job!!!! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. Nice, like mine?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eeyore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Cool!
Nice job on that one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CrazyOrangeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. Good Job, Eeyore . . .
. . . now we need an "Animal Farm" avatar!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Some animals are more equal than others.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CrazyOrangeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. you were paying attention in class.
;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. Great work. Way to go!
If I didn't already have one I was unalterably attached to, I'd go for it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eeyore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Thanks!
Yours is pretty damn cool, so I understand.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eeyore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. I just went and checked out your work....
Very cool stuff! I especially liked your 12/14 comic about Hillary.

:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
18.  A lot of people liked the one about Hillary!
Of course, there were the Hillary fans who did not like it at all.

For the record, I'll support her if she wins the nomination, period. Cuz I'm a yellow dog. I don't know any better!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Apr 20th 2024, 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC