jesuschristonacracker - READ THIS post from the dark side!

The freeps are having quite a debate on the Patriot Act and honestly - I find it fascinating...it's seperating true conservatives (which I disagree with on so many levels, but I can sort of deal with) from the neo con mouth breathers (which are the worst sort of tools on the planet). Anyways - I thought this post was interesting - let's see if he or she gets..what do they call it? The zot?

**************************************

To: Veritas et equitas ad Votum

I think many people can see the forest for the trees but don't want to speak up for fear of the more vocal members of this forum. The twists of logic I've seen here over the course of the past year have effectively, for the most part, kept me from posting for a while (I refuse, however, to give them the satisfaction of an opus, as tempting as it may be at times).

It was not too long ago that Republicans were vehement about actual conservative principles. That is what attracted me to the Republican Party in the first place. To be conservative was to oppose government encroachment into our daily lives. It was to support small, limited government that, for the most part, was willing to operate at the state level. To be Republican was to oppose the very principle of nation building and overseas expeditions (which, one might add, has played a very considerable role in generating much of the ill-will we now face). These, along with many other principles, were the crux of conservatism. Now, even among so-called conservatives, to be truly conservative is to have a "September 10th" mindset. I seem to recall the days when Republicans, as a rule, disdained such sloganism as the venue of Democrats.

But, then again, I suppose that is what really marks the "Post-Sepember 11th Realistic Mindset" - a willingness to embrace the very policies supported by Democrats that we had opposed for years. The dirty little secret is that many Republicans seem to believe that conservatism is a failure, that it does not REALLY work, and that it is only fit for an ideal world. I think that's a shame.

I think this attitude that has prevailed throughout Republican circles that has been willing to denounce those that question government action as supporting terrorists and terrorism in general is absolutely abhorrent and causes the founders of our great country to roll in their graves! It is and has always been patriotic to question the actions of those that possess power, especially when those individuals hold office in the government. To claim, as so many faux-conservatives have done for the past four years, that 9-11 has left this sane principle in the dustbin of history is to effectively turn one's back on all that this country has stood for in its 200+ years of history!

I've been here at Free Republic since May 2001. I've taken part in a great many discussions, debates, and arguments around here. I have never been suspended and have never engaged in flame wars or been told by a moderator to "cool it". I'm not in any hurry to permanently leave unless I am forced to do so (which, after this message, may very well happen). I voted for President Bush twice, and both times I was quite unaware that I was electing a King and administration beyond reproach, but rather was under the impression that I was helping to elect a man as the head of the executive branch of the federal government of the United States of America, a position that, by the designs of those that created the position, was always to be held under the closest of scrutiny. I am absolutely awed by the sheer naivety of some that seem to believe a simple (R) beside a man's name grants him the closest thing possible to infallibility as can be found in a political system. It is that same position that seems to buy into the notion that all news that is in support of one's position must, by nature, be correct, while that that seems to go against one's wishes must be biased or false.

more here...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1541825/posts?q=1&&page=201

but I suspect he may be about to have a new experience.

...I voted for President Bush twice, and both times I was quite unaware that I was electing a King and administration beyond reproach, but rather was under the impression that I was helping to elect a man as the head of the executive branch of the federal government of the United States of America, a position that, by the designs of those that created the position, was always to be held under the closest of scrutiny. I am absolutely awed by the sheer naivety of some that seem to believe a simple (R) beside a man's name grants him the closest thing possible to infallibility as can be found in a political system. It is that same position that seems to buy into the notion that all news that is in support of one's position must, by nature, be correct, while that that seems to go against one's wishes must be biased or false.

it's difficult to understand how he could have voted for Bush a second time.

on Diebold. heheh :shrug:

I almost posted the so-called Conservatives' rush to turn over their Constitutional rights as quickly as they can, according to FR (Rush said it's OK to do so), but I didn't feel like getting the ol' "why do you go there" mantra. If there was ever any doubts about the Brownshirt bullies, they should be disspelled by now. I am glad you went over there and posted this, because you preserve this and it is I am sure gone by now from FR.

throwing out the rightwing religio-fascist scum from the republican party. Or, depending on how the numbers, the rightwingers will throw out the reasonable ones.

The non-religious-whackoids of the republican party (such as the writer of that post) are slowly drawing away from Fuckstick and the rest of his cabal and people like him: I'm talking about the people who are republican mostly for financial reasons and issues of personal freedom, not reasons of "morality" and "family values" and "judeo-christian roots of America". They're gonna put a big ass bitch slap on the loonies in the next year or two.

The republican party, as it has been defined since Reagan and Falwell cojoined at the penis, is done for. THe intelligent ones have realized that the marriage with the rightwing christian brigade was a marriage made in hell.

thre will be fall out.

...If some want to respond to this post by calling me a liberal, so be it. I'm not the one who has turned his back on conservative principles by claiming they are representative of a 9-10 mindset. I'm not the one who is so afraid of international bullies that he has to scream, "Not in the face! Not in the face!" by willingly trading my rights not to have the government violate the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution (the Supreme law of the land) on mere suspicion while using secret warrants. I'm not the one who has to tell myself, "I have nothing to fear from the government if I'm not doing anything wrong," as though my fundamental God-given freedoms exist merely insofar as the government does not have a problem with me. I would rather be living in my 9-10 mindset than your Orwellian 1984 mindset that is willing to believe Big Brother will leave me alone just because I go out of my way to be a good citizen.

And, as a last note, I should point out that, should such measures be entrenched in our way of life, the second amendment shall be of no avail when we decide that the government really has become too oppressive. After all, raising arms against the government, by definition, will make you a terrorist, subject to all the villification the title entails in the public eye and subject to all the measures of which you all-too-happily supported when you thought they could never be turned against you.

Patrick Henry said, "Give me liberty or give me death." How far we've seem to come since then. If we believe the Constitution, as it is worded, is tantamount to a suicide pact, then we'd be far more honest and far better off to just vote and repeal it...

****************
No zot yet.

"Only Republicans need the Patriot Act to protect American citizens from terrorists. The Democrats don't need the Patriot Act because they don't pay any attention to laws that interfere with their desire for power. And believe me, their desire for power trumps our safety."

How can somebody capable of posting to an online forum (or tying their shoes, for that matter) not see the paradox in this statement?

"The Republicans don't need the Patriot Act because they don't pay any attention to laws that interfere with their desire for power. And believe me, their desire for power trumps our safety."


See how that works, FReepers? Only with your party, it's true.

about the agenda of the GOP and conservatives. Iran-contra should have woke this guy up if nothing else. Now with the worst inmates firmly in control of the asylum(post-911), he starts to get worried. Too little, too late.

who's replying to who? Who's got the time to figure that out? So much easier here.

beneath the post. So far there are 3 replies, 2 in agreement *faints*

"Real" republicans!

They may very well get kicked off of the board or torn to shreds in a flame war. They did make some very good points in the post, especially about questioning the president and the administration. I like how they related that to the mindset of media bias if it does not hold their same view point.

for how long that's allowed to stay up. B-)

If it's not zotted by now, probably won't be. Their mods are usually on their toes. I know from personal experience:evilgrin:

"...Awesome. I'm totally in agreement. Today's Republican Patrick Henry would say "Spend my taxes and give me a police state or give me death!! Long live King Bush!..."

"There is nothing patriotic about this act."

while so many are silent.

Thanks for posting this. A true, thinking conservative is a delight to read. Unfortunately, most don't bother with the thinking part.

:rofl: :spray:

Or a Saltine? :7

He'll need somewhere to go, a place where people don't have to be afraid to think for themselves, after posting that at FR.

Or maybe he'll just get disgusted at the reactions he gets over there.

Come on over!

Redstone

It is human to make a mistake but stupid to persist on it.

Errare humanum est, in errore perservare stultum

(ain't google grand!)

Come on over MWS...the water is fiiiiiine!

a. he is articulate and reasoned

b. he is not a fascist

I quote:

You all know what the clinton-slime did while in the white house, and to make the patriot act perament and IF they should get the white house again, OMG can you imagine what the slime would do???? I shutter to even think about it....I think it should be temporary just while Bush is in the White House, and then have it dropped the day a new President takes oath of office....and cross you fingers its isn't the clinton-slime

He (or she) shutters to think.

I'll wager that that statement is true.

Redstone

he closes the shutters to his mind? No, that wouldn't work as there is no mind to shutter against. It makes one shudder. Such a waste or would that be waist? ;)

program. It looks like he made the first step, "I was unaware I was electing a king..."

How many more disillusioned conservatives are out there, the ones who bought into the conservative ideology of small government and fiscal restraint to find out that they were anything but what they postured as?

Welcome to the D-Side!!!!! :D

Spent a few minutes reviewing this crap and the thing that struck me was the number of "if you're not a terrorist,you have nothing to worry about" themes in the threads second only to the "Its fine for us but don't make the act permanent or the power might pass to the democRATs" point of view.


:wtf:

ya can't have it both ways ya freaks....they are freepy aren't they? Creepy Freepies...omg - I need to go home now. TGIF.

That's gotta be a first...

Let's hope there are more. Our country is at stake, and this freeper gets it. And some are agreeing!

in the first place?

and that is a government that can collect information about its citizens without their awareness has absolute power over that citizenry. A "Patriot Act" ought to give the average citizen MORE POWER to investigate the government, not the other way around.

Conservative Icon. He did not believe in the Constitution either. He believed in secretly spying on American citizens. The KKK labeled itself as a Christian Conservative movement, rather like the Fundies. There is nothing that I can agree with a conservative about. They are all about hating one group or another.

This guy sounds like a Conservative leaning Moderate, not a Conservative. That was once the Republican Party before the McCarthy-ites re-emerged and took over the Repubs.

They're not ALL complete idiots. A revelation! We USED to be able to disagree civily in this country until BushCo. I couldn't stand Reagan, but I never stopped being friends with someone because they voted for him, the very idea I would have never believed. How divided we are now, after five years of "the uniter." We don't really need an outside enemy, it's like Pogo: I've seen the enemy, and it is us.

Redstate.org too....perhaps some of the old-time, true conservatives are waking up to the extremists who have hi-jacked their party and hijacked the name "conservative."

Never thought I'd see the day. Although I'm sure that this person and I wouldn't agree about a number of other issues, I suspect that we might at least be able to have a reasonable conversation with one another about our differing beliefs. If only every conservative out there was like this one....sigh. Maybe we COULD actually work together to make this country a better place.

But notice how all the comments from people who don't like what he has to say are all the ones with the misspellings and poor grammar? The biggest problem with this country right now is that for every conservative like this guy there are 100 total morons who are screaming hysterically and drowning out the sensible ones. (Note to lurking freepers: if you want progressives to listen to your opinions, write and think like this guy)

with a title "Republican explains it."

at freeperland, and some of it even makes sense! Am I hallucinating? I must be.

"...I've tried to judge the Patriot Act, etc. by asking myself what I'd think if Bill Clinton had proposed it. Face it, George Bush has at most 3 more years in office, and after that, who knows who will be president?

Would we want to give the same powers to a Democratic administration? If not, we don't need to give them to the Republican, even if we think he's beyond reproach."

However, after the overt democRATS and terrorism nonsense I got to the Rush Limbaugh post. The misspelling of "vile" (someone used Vial) drove a stake through my patience and I could not justify the time spent to read their thoughts - propaganda dumps. I do not support the death penalty but honestly the gene pool needs several million gallons of chlorine.

Clorox for the win in 2008

let's hope it's the beginning of a big wave.
Seperate the wheat from the chaff. Let the intelligent conservatives have a voice. Maybe they can either A) lessen the power of the whackos in their party, or B) seperate themselves from the whackos and maybe then we'll have an actual conservative and liberal set of parties.