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The future is here, it is now, these devices are the future of energy

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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 09:31 PM
Original message
The future is here, it is now, these devices are the future of energy
production, and they will change the future.... If GM had pursued this, those laid off autoworkers may have had a place to go to...

http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=2005111440071
Honda R&D Americas, Inc., in conjunction with technology partner Plug Power Inc., introduced the Home Energy Station III, which provides heat and electricity for the home as well as fuel for a hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicle. This third generation unit, located at the company's North American headquarters in Torrance, California, is more compact and efficient than previous Home Energy Station models. The Home Energy Station III uses natural gas as its base energy source and is able to supply enough hydrogen to power a fuel cell vehicle, such as the Honda FCX, for daily operation while providing electricity for an average-sized household.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. all well and good, but natural gas is a finite resource too...
...and it's still based on fossil biomass, so it's not renewable except possibly by technologies designed to DRAMATICALLY increase the efficiency of photosynthetic energy capture-- technologies that have not yet gotten much further than the talking about them stage. So for the time being at least, natural gas is still a non-sustainable fossil fuel. Why not simply burn it directly for maximal energy efficiency rather than converting it to hydrogen and introducing several additional layers of inefficiency? This is a good idea for a means of decentralizing energy production, but that won't help much if it's not accompanied by sustainable energy sources.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Methane gas perhaps?
"sustainable energy source..."
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. not at fossil fuel energy delivery rates....
Humans currently burn fossil fuels containing the energy equivalent of 400 times the Earth's annual biomass production rate, which stated another way is that 100 percent of the Earth's annual primary productivity, converted to methane, would meet less than 1/400 of the current energy consumption being supplied by fossil fuels. Plus, a global methane based energy budget is a recipe for a runaway greenhouse effect.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. We need an efficient way to crack water into oxygen and hydrogen
there is too much of it anyhoo with the global warming melting permafrost and other items best left frozen.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Self Delete
Edited on Sat Dec-17-05 08:10 AM by 4MoronicYears
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Hydrogen production in the U.S.
http://www.plugpower.com/products/faq.cfm

Is hydrogen fuel easy to obtain?
Yes. In the U.S. alone, more than eight million tons of hydrogen are produced every year. Plug Power has a hydrogen service agreement with Airgas, Inc., the largest U.S. distributor of industrial gases, with 1200 distribution points and 2400 trucks nationwide.
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buddysmellgood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'll bet the fuel cell involved still uses expensive precious metals that
get fouled by carbon monoxide. This is a demonstration only.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Well.... check these links and know that these companies are
not going away.

www.ballard.com

www.fuelcellenergy.com

www.plugpower.com
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buddysmellgood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. We are just one advance away from inexpensive, efficient fuel cell power.
Once we have a robust and inexpensive cathode that can run with dirty hydgrogen, we're in business. It's taking longer to get there than I thought it would.
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Porcupine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. Because insulating and driving less is too complicated.
I mean here we are developing new technologies that require fuel that is in diminishing supply when:

A huge portion of our housing stock is uninsulated or poorly insulated.
We could fit almost all existing buildings with solar hot water systems economically.
We could add geothermal heat-pump systems to a large number of buildings economically.
Most houses still primarily rely in incandescent lighting.
A massive portion of our private transportation depends upon SUV's and oversized pickup trucks to carry one or two people with no gear.

Let's ignore that stuff and subsidize a pie in the sky faked-up hydrogen economy.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Some more pies
Edited on Sat Dec-17-05 07:50 AM by 4MoronicYears
www.ballard.com

www.fuelcellenergy.com

www.plugpower.com



http://www.plugpower.com/products/faq.cfm
Is hydrogen fuel easy to obtain?
Yes. In the U.S. alone, more than eight million tons of hydrogen are produced every year. Plug Power has a hydrogen service agreement with Airgas, Inc., the largest U.S. distributor of industrial gases, with 1200 distribution points and 2400 trucks nationwide.
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Porcupine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Nobody could really afford those Ballard fuel cells anyway
The whole premise of the hydrogen economy is that "sometime" in the future fuel cells will some how become affordable. This so we can continue a lifestyle the planet can't afford.

We need to get real about what we really need. We don't need a "hydrogen economy" based on hype.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
11. Protonenergy
http://www.protonenergy.com/

Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, and may also be the ultimate energy carrier, offering the promise of zero pollution energy production at the point of use. Today, hydrogen is a widely used industrial product.



Proton Energy Systems Inc. manufactures PEM (Proton Exchange Membrane) electrochemical systems to make hydrogen from water in a zero pollution process, which allows for safe, pure, reliable on-site hydrogen, to meet today’s commercial hydrogen requirements worldwide. Today our HOGEN® hydrogen generation systems are providing pure hydrogen on-site for a variety of industrial applications. Click below to see which HOGEN hydrogen generation system is right for you.



Power Plant Generator Cooling
Materials Processing, Heat Treating
Semiconductors, Electronics, Epitaxy
Laboratory, Analytical and Scientific
Meteorology
Energy Research and Fuel Cells

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