"Americans don't want to lose the war"--this is what Bush has going for

him"---says a Fox reporter just now.

Americans want their servicepeople OUT of Iraq as soon as feasible,
and the hell with whatever BushCo consider "winning" ie, permanent bases.

that if Iraq is indeed comparable to Vietnam, that we WILL lose.
Let's save lives right now, bring the troops home.

label that the Right is paiting them with.

with a reality-based label of their own.

the American public in large will buy it? I don't think so this time.

ing on many. Americans do not want defeat--they want "something" out of all the loss (lives, resources, money, etc).

they can't have it.
(most americans 'want' decent government fair taxes and peace to raise hell in private.....the government of bushviks want the opposite..zero tolerance for teens and smokers, whatever else bugs their pee brain)

is our troops returning home ALIVE.

do not seem to matter--or they have not hit a high for them.

Not enough to be a significant surge in support of BushCo policy.

U.N. approved depleted uranium and white phosphorous, bruise missiles and academic bombs. How much more do we have to "win"? Hell, they are in their last throes.... give it up already. One thing is certain, had we found an inexpensive way to crack water into oxygen and hydrogen 10 years ago and applied it to vehicles/homes/factories, we would not be killing Iraqis in their homeland right now.

us into an unwinable war. It doesn't matter if we leave in 1 yr or leave in 5, 10 yrs. This is a war that could be a continuous operation.

I really do think that people are beginning to realize this fact. His comparing this to WWII is not valid. I think comparing it to Vietnam is a fair comparison by the fact Vietnam was an unwinable war as well.

You only go to war when you have to; not because you want to for yourself or for a large corporate interest. We are occupiers not liberators in Iraq. It is unwinable.

But only if Iraq becomes France and the US becomes Germany.

not going so well. In my mind, it's 2 distinct events, both marred by lies and poor planning.

What the hell does that say about the idiots of this country.

It would be bad enough if Bush was saying something like "We made a huge mistake, but we're there now so let's just keep making that mistake"


But he isn't even admitting an error, bad judgment, or a mistake.

He keeps contending that, even knowing then what he knows now, he still would have gone to war. And since we're there, we shouldn't leave...


:wtf:


All these morons care about is that Bush seems to be consistant with his word (which, of course, is bullshit, Bush is guilty of far greater flip-flops than he ever accused Kerry of, buth in number and severity).

Our soldiers are still dying because Bush wants to look like a man of unwavering word.

Of course, this whole war is one giant flip-flop. That's the horrible irony. The justification for it changes on a daily basis.

a giant football game with winning and losing teams. You don't want to be a loser, get voted off the island, take a hit on stocks, lose the beauty pageant. Such is the black and white thinking that has been inculcated in this nation. Either/or; with us/against us; patriotic/unpatriotic. Switch it on/off at will.

— I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee
— that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you.
Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

THIS is the fearless leader who is going to convince Americans
to stay the course with him? Riiiiight.

The clueless are always the last to know.

the Manichean, simplistic framework of American policy that so infuriates the French, which goes a long way in explaining why they call us "des grands enfants"--overgrown children. Nuanced reasoning and shaded argument are not the average American's forté, I fear. SG:shrug:

This undifferentiated mind set has great drawbacks, but certain advantages as well (not being hamstrung by too numerous and varied options--"Just Go For It" could only be an American slogan.) SG

Now they're beginning to face the fact that this one is lost. And, that waving the flag, "shock and awe", and "mission accomplished" does not victory make.

How are things going today? What is the current state of Vietnam/American relations? Not so bad, right? GAWD, people make such cozy little linguistic cul-de-sacs and get stuck in them forever.

But then, the President doesn't either.

Sports, stocks like its all about the win. Nobody wants to be the dreaded looser! Being the looser is a fate worse then death. So lets all jump on the Republican bandwagon and ride this thing to the moon.

Every time he says "victory" people think WWII. This is nonsense. What, exactly, would this kind of 'victory' looked like in Vietnam? A permanently divided Vietnam. We can see how well that's working in Korea.

No one can effect a victory in Iraq except the Iraqis. And when, and if they DO get a real democracy up and running, I doubt it will look like what the right wing loonies are expecting. And they won't like it either,,,. The people were voting en masse because the Mullahs are telling them it's the only way to get America the hell out of there.

Impeachment is the only route to establishing moral authority and legitimacy.

Dean almost had it right when he said "We Can't Win the War". It's too bad he failed to grasp the real problem with the assertion. Rather than retreating from it, he should have made a simple substitution.

The problem is not the "un-winnable" part, it is the "We" part. The most effective, and correct change is

from "WE Can't Win"

to "THEY Can't Win"

This regime took upon itself power We the People did not give it. Instead of protecting and defending our Constitutional Democracy, they stole it from us in corrupt elections, then they trampled and violated it.

"They Can't Win" is a message grounded in reality. It draws a bright line between the Abuses of Power and International crimes they have committed without our consent. The substitution has strength that demands action: Impeachment. Until we put our own house in order, our broken and hijacked nation is incapable of being a force for good anywhere on this planet.

Good things do not grow out of the seeds of evil. Immoral and unlawful means will never result in moral and legitimate ends. We must dig up the rotten seeds and do our best to start anew. We must punish their actions, establish legitimate and moral leadership, and seek to repair the damage done in ways we can be proud of.

It is time for our leaders to see the truth -- that their oath to protect and defend the Constitution requires them to stand up and demand Impeachment and removal of this criminal regime.

Any risks our leaders perceive -- ridicule, political suicide -- are nothing compared to what the members of our armed services face.

We expect our soldiers, sailors, and marines to risk life and limb to preserve our Constitutional Democracy. We should expect no less from our candidates and elected officials.

Iraq is at the center of the crimes this regime has committed. Impeachment is the only escape from complicity with this regime. We the People (currently best represented by "We the Democrats") must separate ourselves from this regime. We must dissociate ourselves from their actions. Recognizing and cutting out the cancer provides:

A clarity that reflects reality.

A clarity that is simple and resonates.

A clarity that is powerful and right.

A clarity that allows us to shed the shame associated with the failures and abuses of the Bush regime.

A clarity that creates an emotional context that allows Americans to feel good about themselves.

A clarity that is attractive because it meets so many needs.

There is power in truth.

Impeachment NOW!

America is in trouble for the longer haul. Dumb people being fed lies is an abomination. Their opinions are irrelevant without the knowledge of the truth.