Unions can go too far

So why isn't the TWU in NYC getting unilateral support?

Years ago I was a participant at a convention at the Jacob Javits Convention Center in NYC. After setting up my displays I went to plug an extension cord into the wall.

"You can't do that" I was informed.
"Why not?" I asked
"You need an electrician to do that" I was told
"You're fucking kidding me, right?" I replied.

He wasn't kidding. If memory serves me, it cost me $156 to have a union electrician come and plug my extension cord in the wall.

No shit.

Then, when it was time to leave, I was supposed to wait for some Teamsters to come and move my stuff out of the facility.

I am a Native New Yorker. I have been through a transit strike. Transit workers do a good job. They are under-appreciated. I support the TWU and stand behind the striking workers. But given unlimited power, Unions can become as corrupt as chimpCo.

Go ahead and support the Reagan style killing of another union in this country.
It is only one more union busted by the republican regime. Unions are useless anyway right?
When all the unions are busted and gone, you can kiss your benefits at work gone as well. You can kiss 8 hours a day gone as well as on the job safety.
But go ahead, kill one more union sweat shops weren't all that bad now were they? Ask your great grandfather.

They've established the workweek. Ensured fair pay. They look out for the working man and rightly so! Globalism has put some serious hampers on them, but they still need to keep fighting. I'm on their side 95% of the time.

and then there are things like this. You can't deny it. It does tarnish their names. There are times when they put up BS just to make someone pay out the nose (and it's not always a huge corporate budget...) I've heard similar stories (in particular out of the entertainment Unions.) "OH DON'T MOVE THAT 10 POUND CHAIR BACK TO IT'S ORIGINAL POSITION 2 FEET AWAY! WE HIRE SOMEONE TO MOVE IT BACK...THAT'S HIS JOB...and we pay him all day to do only and just that..."

Unions need to recognize little stupid things like the plugging of electrical outlets in the wall. It doesn't take a certified union member to do it. Little things like this only sully their names.

are gone.
They are the deterrent to stop big business form working you to the bone and then discarding you in tomorrows trash.

but they can do wrong, they can be bureaucratic and they can get greedy.


Ease your dogs off, I'm hardly what you would call "anti-union." I'm pro-union and I remember my Grandfather's stories. However, if you think that Unions can do no wrong than you are acting like many so DUers who think no one can do wrong if they wear the title of "Democrat". They can be greedy and corrupt just like anyone else.

and FYI I practically am in the trash, thank you wonderful economy.

all out attach the neocon army has on them since the Reagan years.
I was a union worker in the early 80's and compliments of the Reagan union busting policies I went 2 years with out a job.
Just protective of those unions and working two threads today that both were attacking the transit workers.
It can be tough carrying on two similar debates.

These clowns would rather see Unions destroyed than negotiated with...

It's like the upper cabal of the bluebloods are carrying out a vendetta for their great grandfathers.

Does your spouse piss you off sometimes? Yes. But you don't put an add in the paper saying how sometimes they are crazy. Same here. You have to stand shoulder to shoulder and give support. That's the only way.

And when?

Until I hear ALL the facts, I don't necessarily think this is what happened. I'm not saying the OP is lying, I'm just saying they may have misunderstood why the union plugged in the equipment. At some conventions I've been to, that's part of the set up fee.

And re: entertainment unions. Good for them. More work for everyone, and they earn their money.

Boy was he mad. Said Bush should call out the National Guard and order the people back to work. Thinks people that tranport him and others to work have stepped over the line and make enough money just to drive around anyway.

it should never be illegal to demand that you be treated fairly and get what you deserve...i'm behind them 100%

I am not baiting you, I sincerely mean that. I think it's an oxymoron.

And, who cares if they are public workers? That means they have a right to be screwed? For shame. These aren't even public safety workers, so there's no argument there.

And crying on different threads for them to be locked up? OMG.

I'm not debating you about this, because there is NO wiggle room for this if you are a liberal/progressive. There is only ONE response:

SOLIDARITY!!!!

Not specifically, but from where to where does he have to walk?

Too bad he was angry. People have literally died so that he, you, and all of us have certain rights. Glad to know he doesn't acre about that. Of course, I don't believe any of this, but I thought I'd play along, just for fun.

And, for the other poster, this strike is not illegal.

Geez, such anti-union sentiments on DU. It never ceases to amaze and appall me.

How far did he have to walk? Uphill in the snow?

Edited to add: After reviewing your other messages--perhaps his anger is directed at you? He's going to work & you're between jobs.

Have fun posting!

I've heard it before. "couldn't plug in my own extension cord"
:shrug:

Not a myth. I grew up in NYC. There was a real shitstorm at the Javits Center. The fucking place was riddled with corruption, from the administration awarding contracts all the way to the union custodian.

I'm in the medical business. I believe I attended the AAMI convention there. It was years ago. We paid for everything. We paid for services we never received. *Everything* had to be done by a union man.

Over the years the stories have been embellished, but there is a kernal of truth there.

Here's one for you. My buddy Dennis was a truck driver. He worked for the Daily News. Dennis and his union buddies would all sign in for each other. Dennis got paid for a 40 hour week. He worked 11 hours a week.

How could this be?

The union demanded 4X the manpower required to do the job.

"Bullshit" you say?

The NY Daily News went on strike when management insisted that it *does not* take 16 men to operate a printing press. The union said it does. For no other reason than safety. So they go on strike.

Bottom line. The Daily News paid for 16 guys to work each press, but at any given time you would be hard pressed to find more than 5 guys on the press. The rest of the guys were home, but they were getting paid to be there.

Years ago, unions provided a genuine service. They still do, but not to the same extent. Union corruption and strongarming remains a real problem. I am a college educated professional. I have been at it for 30 years. I am good at what I do and I'm well paid for my efforts. But not as well paid as some schmuck on a GM assembly line who does nothing but tighten the same nut on the same bolt all day. This guy makes $60,000 a year doing this. Why?

Technicians are supposed to make more than assembly line workers. You want to put your kids through college and drive a fucking Navigator? Attaining these things should require more than the ability to thread a nut on a bolt. This is a democracy. You should get out of it what you put into it.

If assembly line workers got paid what they were worth the products they manufacture would be more cost effective. I'm not saying anyobe should be exploited. What I'm saying is that they should be paid a fair wage for what they do, and they should have good benifits. $60,000 a year for twisting the same wrench on the same bolt? That's crazy.

Lets talk shipping containers for a minute. Shipping containers.. Move easily from ship to truck to location. Cargo remains untouched. Much, much more efficient than mnually unloading ships using cargo nets, right? I mean, everyone has benifited from shipping containers, right?

In the beginning, when shipping containers and the systems that use them were new, the Longshoremen went fucking nuts. Strikes, threats, riots. They knew the truth. That shipping containers threatened their jobs. Lots of jobs.

What were we supposed to do? Turn our backs on technology to keep these guys working? Of course not. Progress is a good thing. The days of unloading ships using cargo nets were over. If the unions had their way there would be 10X the manpower on the docks doing 1/3 the work. That's what they were fighting for.

TWU workers should be confident that their retirement will be secure. I'm on their side. What I am saying is that blindly holding your fist in the air in support of labor unions may not be in your best interests/

A myth.

The $156 to plug shit in post is pure flamebait.

we're a little sensitive about convention center fires here. It's worth a few bucks to involve a union electrician instead of letting any knucklehead salesman off the street plug in their frayed, overloaded extension cords themselves.

(Ignoring for a moment the suspicious nature of a hackneyed anecdote that stinks like an urban myth ...)

People make this mistake all the time. In order to make the union labor appear as onerous and tyrannical as possible, the management deploys it in as inefficient and high overhead a manner as they can. (Management contrives to create similar idiocies regarding EEO and affirmative action.) You're not dealing with problems created by labor - you're dealing with mismanagement!

When someone's display shorts out and people die in the fire, where will people be regarding qualified electricians??? How often does that have to happen? Once in a hundred times? Once in a thousand times? How much of your inconvenience is a human life worth?

Considering the nature of a large convention or public event, I can see the safety issues involved. People tend to forget that aspect of union advocacy.

year old former new yorker i've been through a few transit strikes.

i also worked for new york telephone as an outside consultant for 9 years. during 2 strikes i crossed picket lines and was called a whore and many other nasty things. all i was doing was trying to make a living.

on edit: there were also quite a few times when my dad's company went on strike. he didn't get paid and had to find odd jobs to make a few bucks to support us.

i also remember a transit strike in the 60s when a judge ordered the workers back to work. the union leader said "the judge can drop dead in his black robes". a few days later the union leader dropped dead.

person back in the 60s and 70s, but I was glad to have them tie into the mains for me, it was one less thing I had to do, even if it took a bite out of the fee for the show and meant I had to wait an hour or so for one to turn up.

However, I appreciated the 40 hour week, paid holidays, paid vacations, and (at that time) company health insurance I had at my day jobs enough that I didn't mind the wait or the fee.

It's all in how you look at it. How many vacations and holidays have that $128 paid for? Would you really rather work 16 hours a day for the privilege of pushing a plug into a socket?

i've worked over 20 yrs in the union "arena" now...with machinists, tool&die makers, plumbers, electricians, pipefitters, boilermakers, welders, carpenters, steelworkers, painters, drywallers, glaziers, etc etc etc.

your story is bullshit and you know its bullshit. don't lie to us...tell us the REAL story. you needed to get into a junction box, didn't you? and you thought you could "do it yourself", real quick, no one would know...so you decided to endanger everyone in the convention center to save your cheap ass a few bucks, and you're STILL pissed!

Gasp.:sarcasm: Knock me down with a feather. When you compare your ridiculous example of plugging/not plugging something in to the good unions have done, we see where your priorities lay. Unions have worked miracles for unionized and nonunionized workers. Workers have given their lives for the rest of us to have a forty hour work week, paid vacation, and sick leave. And you bother us with trivialities. Timing's kind of weird too, seeing as how there's a strike going on. Almost seems like you're trying to weaken the workers' position. Oh, and welcome to DU.

May have to go to the Lounge for a while...

Solidarity! Without unions we are nothing. All these people who think that management is going to give them a fair shake without the power of a collective bargaining agreement need to have their head examined.

My dad worked in a glass factory as a millwright for 38 years and was in the union. Him and my mom had eight kids; we had a roof over our heads, food, a swimming pool, family vacations, and even a boat. Not bad for the son of an immigrant whose father died because he was too poor to receive proper medical care. And my dad dropped out of school in the ninth grade, because he had to get a job to help support his family, too.

Union haters can kiss my ass.

And I'm not even union!

about the system? Can we say "exploit"?

A few times, or *gasp* carpool. Pissed because those people are making "too" much money? Don't get mad at THEM, get mad at the corporate fat cats who don't pay YOU enough. Form a union and strike.

And, sorry.... but I have no good work for any scabs. Period.

Progressives my ass...

never been part of my experience.

I do recall waiting for the proper union to do the job that needed to get done before my job could start. And now I only use union folks to work on my house and therefore still follow whatever is the union rule for who does what first. Amazingly enough I seem to pay less for the completion of the same activity that others obtain from non-union sources.

For a line cord plugging into a wall outlet, the company being required to get a union person is not a rule I ever ran across.

A native New Yorker with a Raiders logo? Bah!

child labor? Give me a break! If it wasn't for the Union, you'll be making $.30 an hour right now!

The bos' has to pay for his new Lear Jet somehow, you know.

You should have been allowed to plug an extension cord into the wall. And yes, power does corrupt.

But unions are a necessity. Especially in this day and age.

My husband is a union carpenter. He plugs in his own extension cord, does a lot of wiring on his own and plumbing too for that matter. I know union electricians, teamsters, plumbers and roofers and plenty of other trade union members. What you're circulating is false propaganda, my friend.

Provide some proofs and references. Dare ya.

Unions at private companies have a legal right to strike. Strikes by them are fine. But these public employee union workers, who perform a vital service for the city, knew this strike was illegal but proceeded with it any way. I support the city's efforts to fine them to the max. I'd also throw the strike's leaders into jail for contempt of the court's order not to strike. We'd see how they feel about that after a day or two with some hardened felons as cell mates.

Glad to see it alive on DU!:sarcasm:

new york city firemen and police unions supported bush. i was quite shocked.

conservatism and Republican beliefs. One fireman I knew, really believes that poor people are lazy and he doesn't think there should be any welfare or government entitlement programs like Social Security, that taxpayers pay for, yet he doesn't seem to realize that taxpayers pay for his job and benefits.

is paid for by both employer and employee. for some reason certain government employees do not pay into it. i think they may have some other plan. but i worked for the city of new york for a short period of time and no social security was taken out of my pay.

tell your friend to open his eyes and look at the real world.

the delivery guys didn't have to go any further than the back door with the cases they brought. However, only one ever refused to bring his delivery all the way into to the storeroom and cooler in ten years that I worked there and he was a scab hired when the union was on strike.

A lot of union rules aren't enforced for common sense reasons. It's just that they are there in case a problem arises. For instance one restaurant owner was very abusive to the delivery people, who complained to their union about him. He always got his deliveries dumped at the back door and no further. He couldn't do anything about it either because the distributors told him that they couldn't buck the union.

They would be that why even if they weren't in a union. They'd be those lazy, kiss-ass managers in "right to work" states. They are just sucky people. But no, because of this small percentage, unions suck.... geez....

I'll go with the Unions.

We'll just get some low-paid illegal to re-wire your house when you remodel. And if they complain about pay or working conditions, just threaten to call Homeland Security on their ass!

Just hope your house gets re-wired correctly.

to is some of the worst of it. I fully support unions in getting good wages and benefits for their workers, but a lot of the regulations they have gotten enacted do nothing but unecessarily complicate and impede the operation of business. I'll say this, i had a lot more positive impression of unions when i had no experience with them.

Most convention center work has gone by the way. Who did you pay the money to? Not the individual, I'm sure. Either the convention center authority(read political appointees) or a "selected" contractor who got he profit mark up. There is a history of feather bedding in a number of unions. Most of that is long gone and some was truly justified for safety reasons and now the workers and public assume some of the risk. You overlook the repetitive injury involved as well as the boredom, driving some to drink or drug abuse. Technicians for the most part do not make as good a wage because of their failure to unionize. Some think that they are above unionism or sell out for a title. Another consideration to be made is the taxes these workers pay is higher according to their higher wage. The medical community benefits greatly from the fact that union workers tend to have better medical coverage that are therefor returned to that community. I have personally had medical people say what great insurance coverage I have and are not the least bit hesitant to bill it the max and are assured of prompt payment. People need to open their minds to the bigger picture and how a rising tide lifts all boats. Trickle down is trickle on.