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edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:51 AM
Original message
Don't expect an impeachment
Yesterday I started a post about how I thought it was unrealistic to think the NSA scandal would result in an impeachment.
Here is an article from Peter Daou saying the same thing in a more articulate way;

The Daou Report
by Peter Daou
New The Dynamic of a Bush Scandal: How the Spying Story Will Unfold (and Fade) - The third button on the Daou Report's navigation bar links to the U.S. Constitution, a Constitution many Americans believe is on life support - if not already dead. The cause of its demise is the corrosive interplay between the Bush administration, a bevy of blind apologists, a politically apathetic public, a well-oiled rightwing message machine, lapdog reporters, and a disorganized opposition. The domestic spying case perfectly illuminates the workings of that system. And the unfolding of this story augurs poorly for those who expect it to yield different results from other administration scandals.

Here's why: the dynamic of a typical Bush scandal follows familiar contours...

1. POTUS circumvents the law - an impeachable offense.

2. The story breaks (in this case after having been concealed by a news organization until well after Election 2004).

3. The Bush crew floats a number of pushback strategies, settling on one that becomes the mantra of virtually every Republican surrogate. These Republicans face down poorly prepped Dem surrogates and shred them on cable news shows.

4. Rightwing attack dogs on talk radio, blogs, cable nets, and conservative editorial pages maul Bush's critics as traitors for questioning the CIC.

5. The Republican leadership plays defense for Bush, no matter how flagrant the Bush over-reach, no matter how damaging the administration's actions to America's reputation and to the Constitution. A few 'mavericks' like Hagel or Specter risk the inevitable rightwing backlash and meekly suggest that the president should obey the law. John McCain, always the Bush apologist when it really comes down to it, minimizes the scandal.

6. Left-leaning bloggers and online activists go ballistic, expressing their all-too-familiar combination of outrage at Bush and frustration that nothing ever seems to happen with these scandals. Several newspaper editorials echo these sentiments but quickly move on to other issues.

7. A few reliable Dems, Conyers, Boxer, et al, take a stand on principle, giving momentary hope to the progressive grassroots/netroots community. The rest of the Dem leadership is temporarily outraged (adding to that hope), but is chronically incapable of maintaining the sense of high indignation and focus required to reach critical mass and create a wholesale shift in public opinion. For example, just as this mother of all scandals hits Washington, Democrats are still putting out press releases on Iraq, ANWR and a range of other topics, diluting the story and signaling that they have little intention of following through. This allows Bush to use his three favorite weapons: time, America's political apathy, and make-believe 'journalists' who yuck it up with him and ask fluff questions at his frat-boy pressers.

8. Reporters and media outlets obfuscate and equivocate, pretending to ask tough questions but essentially pushing the same narratives they've developed and perfected over the past five years, namely, some variation of "Bush firm, Dems soft." A range of Bush-protecting tactics are put into play, one being to ask ridiculously misleading questions such as "Should Bush have the right to protect Americans or should he cave in to Democratic political pressure?" All the while, the right assaults the "liberal" media for daring to tell anything resembling the truth.

9. Polls will emerge with 'proof' that half the public agrees that Bush should have the right to "protect Americans against terrorists." Again, the issue will be framed to mask the true nature of the malfeasance. The media will use these polls to create a self-fulfilling loop and convince the public that it isn't that bad after all. The president breaks the law. Life goes on.

10. The story starts blending into a long string of administration scandals, and through skillful use of scandal fatigue, Bush weathers the storm and moves on, further demoralizing his opponents and cementing the press narrative about his 'resolve' and toughness. Congressional hearings might revive the issue momentarily, and bloggers will hammer away at it, but the initial hype is all the Democrat leadership and the media can muster, and anyway, it's never as juicy the second time around...

Rinse and repeat.

It's a battle of attrition that Bush and his team have mastered. Short of a major Dem initiative to alter the cycle, to throw a wrench into the system, to go after the media institutionally, this cycle will continue for the foreseeable future.

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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. Don't expect one : DEMAND ONE
When the people LEAD the leaders will FOLLOW.

This is a do or die moment for the Democrat party. I'm waiting for action.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. absolutely
win or lose, "the time is right to do what is right"
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Strong Atheist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
2. Agreed.. till after we win in
2006. Then ...:evilgrin:
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. Looks like we have a hit-n-run poster/thread.
Posting flame-bait defeatest rhetoric....then runs for cover. :hide:

Let the post die......
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More Than A Feeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. I don't expect one or not expect one, I simply fight for one.
Edited on Wed Dec-21-05 09:59 AM by Heaven and Earth
My avatar, Russ Feingold, is very inspiring. Five years ago he was on the losing end of a 99-1 vote on the PATRIOT Act. On December 31st, he will complete his triumph as the PATRIOT Act falls victim to his bipartisan filibuster.

That kind of perseverence is something that can give us all hope, if we allow ourselves to hope.
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. A few reliable Dems,
A few reliable Dems,


Exactly!
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earthside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. Sadly, True
I heard Mike Malloy eviscerate the "wimpy" Democrats on Randi's show yesterday ... Frankly, it is hard to disagree with his rant.

Here in Colorado, our 'progressive' Congressman, Mark Udall WITHDREW his co-sponsorship of the Murtha resolution. Udall wants to run for U.S. Senate THREE years from now. But he is already compromising most of his 'progressive' positions apparently to appeal to corporate PAC contributions and Republican voters.

This is exactly why Bush does this criminal stuff and then smuggly goes on to planning his next crime ... because the 'Block Watch' ie, the Democrats look the other way every time.
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. How it always happens
A few Dems stick their necks out, and the rest do nothing.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
5. Your #5, re:McCain is big. He always seems to come through for **. nt
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. So, what are your going to do about it?
Edited on Wed Dec-21-05 10:07 AM by liberalnurse
Are you just going to post on all the Democratic Message Boards how dynamic the *bush administration has become????....Should we just turn over our guns, our bank accounts and children now?

Gheeze....I ask this question? How long has it been for you since you voted Democratic?

Let me help you out here with a "simple reading" link. This is a brief synopsis of the Nixon Impeachment Process. The key here is process....We have started the process......Fitzpatrick has got the ball rolling and Conyers has the goods. It is almost a mirror image today of 1972 senerio....


http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/impeachments/nixon.htm
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. hhhmmmmmm
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Zensea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
8. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Our chief weapons are fear and surprise.
Same goes for an impeachment.
I think they are scared, now if we can surprise them ...
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
9. If Congress is not willing to do its job and impeach the bastard
It is time the people march to Washington and remove them as well as the president from office.
Then we can replace them with a government for the people by the PEOPLE as it was in the beginning.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
10. Stage 10 may not be complete.
Edited on Wed Dec-21-05 10:01 AM by bryant69
It seems to imply that President Bush will never pay any price for having a long string of administration scandals.

I think he will and is paying that price; and it will get steeper as th scandals pile up. Not asw steep as we would like it, but still steeper.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
11. But you can't stop us talking about it.
If inaction appeals to you--do nothing!
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
12. The time to defend the constitution is NOW
Edited on Wed Dec-21-05 10:06 AM by iconoclastNYC
Democrats need to stand up and show the country that we fight for what's right regardless of the political winds. What happens if we wait until 2006 and political winds change and we don't get the house. NOW IS THE TIME for all democratic members of congress to abide by thier oath of office and defend the constitution. I'm not saying we'll win the vote but at least we'll have members on the record rubber stamping Bush's blatant violation of the law.

STAND UP AND FIGHT.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
14. Give up everyone! - Just give up!!! Give me a fucking break !!!!
Edited on Wed Dec-21-05 10:11 AM by stop the bleeding
If we just give up and never try..... then of course this will fade like the rest.

WTF!!!



Repeat after me:

This is WAR....
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
16. The map is NOT the territory
It's up to US to make certain there IS an impeachment. If you decide it's GOING TO BE impossible before the fact because of past history, then you're simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. Your job is to make them LEARN from history.

I'm sick up and fed with all these negative articles. We CAN'T. They WON'T. We SHOULDN'T. Bullshit.

I say again. Bullshit.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
17. With that attitude, you won't get one.
Salon also totally pooh-poohed the 2004 election skeptic movement as well, after being one of the best sources for Diebold/e-vote skeptical news. Now even Kerry has reportedly said he believes the election was stolen. Apparently Edwards dissented heavily from conceding.

Needless to say, Salon is not the fountain of truth...it is just another publication edited and distributed by flawed human beings, the same as any other.

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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
18. Good scenario, but your #3 isn't happening this time...
Edited on Wed Dec-21-05 10:17 AM by johnfunk
... thanks to the Center for American Progress and other progressive think tanks. The Bush crew has floated a few pushback strategies, and look at how they're getting shredded:

• Clinton "scandal" media whore Victoria Toensing tried one pushback -- only to be rigorously pwn3d by James Bamford.

• In a related incident, the usually whorish Tweety Matthews eviscerated the insufferable Kate O'Beirne when she peddled the latest Traitorgate lie. Shweeeet!
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
19. Did this guy write this so you could post it here?
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edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. No,
I got the link from Atrios.
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Rainbow gatherer Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
22. Accurate analysis, Bush faces no danger whatsoever.
It's sad but whoever is in charge will shape the debate. The outrage over invasions of privacy are already slipping further -- from front page to page 2 to 3 and by next week...?
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edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
23. I have been on this board for about three years,
I appreciate the conversation we have. On this subject, I am NOT saying not to talk about it. I am NOT saying we should roll over and play dead. I am NOT saying we shouldn't be outraged. I am simply saying that talk about impeachment is unrealistic IMHO.
I do think the NSA scandal will hurt Bush and the Repubs. It will help the Dems win some battles. (such as the Patriot Act vote last week). But talk about revolution and the rising of the populace against them is unrealistic.
So let's keep fighting the good fight, let's keep our voices raises. But let's stay in the reality based community and let the other guys be the blind believers.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Is Censure realistic??
Edited on Wed Dec-21-05 10:32 AM by stop the bleeding
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edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. I simply
do not think that this Repub Congress will act against this President.
The GOP acts to retain it's power, it does not act on law or truth or what is right. This is not Nixon's GOP.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. I know that you want to have discourse on this and I am giving you
a realistic question in this discourse, I am not flaming you and don't care if you have been on this board for 3 days or 3 years. the points you listed above are valid for past events, but then you do not have a precedent for what is happening in the House and Senate right in ragrds to Spygate/snoopgate, and having Censure 1st will lead to impeachment. This is the 1st hurddle to clear and then that clears the way for Impeachment - the process is unfolding right now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5656196
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Democrats are working from within the hive.....
There are a lot of republicans who are sick of this *resident. They don't make their feelings public but they detest this administration. *bush has ignored many of them in the hive.The quite republicans do not want to go down politically associated with this crime family. I believe Democrats are meeting with these disenchanted republicans to broker a deal in 2006 regarding Impeachment. They know how to butter their bread and no doubt have grieved the practice of democracy. Secondly, they know they will be left out in the cold by the *bush/neocons in the very near future. There is tremendous opportunity to court the republicans in Congress.

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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
29. Locking.
It appears the entire article has been pasted and no link has been provided. Please read the rules concerning copyright violations:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

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