Where to begin? I received an e-mail

from brother regarding Merry Christmas vs. Happy Holiday, and how we need to fight for what's right, and not lose the spirit of Christmas by abandoning "Merry Christmas".:eyes: My brief response and his follow:

My post:
Might I just say, this woman is worrying about the wrong thing! Do we not have more pressing problems in the US than worrying about political correctness in the holiday season? I could care less whether someone says Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas, and I use both salutations freely.
I do worry about all the bloodshed in Iraq and why that was deemed worthwhile. I worry about, once the votes are counted in Iraq, whether it will all have been worth it, and I'm not feeling too positive about that. I do worry about whether your government is spying on Americans illegally and why. I do worry that people will have to choose between eating, buying prescriptions, or freezing to death this winter because of skyrocketing energy prices, and why those prices are so high. I also worry about the people from the gulf coast still living in tents because their government has let them down so outrageously. I also worry about not having a paper trail when you cast a vote, and the possibilities of tampering that are slowly leaking out. And I worry about the 'culture of corruption' surrounding your government; think Abramoff, DeLay, Frist, Rove, and all the other people, Democrats and Republicans, who will be swallowed up in all these scandals that are about to explode.
I think there are many more important issues that should take front and center. This Christmas/Happy Holidays distraction is not helping anything.

This is my 'Merry Christmas' response from my brother:

You get all your information from sources that hate OUR President. This country elected President Bush. That means that a majority of our fellow citizens voted him as OUR President, more votes were cast for President Bush than any other President. That in and of itself should tell you something. The mass media in this country is dead against Bush and all his policies. They will lie to you about every action that occures. You mention the election in Iraq which I might add was a vast success. Most of the Iraqi people voted for a government that will take power within the year. This is the first time in history that an election took place in a mideastern country that elected a government that will govern that country.... It also has been hinted that we will start reducing troop levels this year as well. But your mass media would never mention that to you... You worry about the government spying on you. Have any of YOUR rights been violated. Are YOU in any danger of being carted away and tortured. I think NOT... If someone needs to monitor my email or listen to my phone conversations to keep me save, then let them have at it. If you think there have been no terrorist attacks here on US soil cause of luck or any other reason you, my dear, are sadly mistaken. This government has been keeping a keen eye opened to terrorist activities and has rounded up several terrorist cells before they committ mayhem... I have not heard of anyone dying cause they cannot afford heat. As a matter of fact, many state governments have been handing out heaters to low income families and supplimenting their income to pay electric bills. These are not federal problems but state issues. The federal government by law cannot suppliment incomes, but then again you would not know about that cause CNN or NBC never told you about that... Look it up... That is part of states responsibilities... As for Hurricane victims, don't get me started. Most of the people that are wining have done nothing for themselves for generations. We have had hurricanes here in NC and for the most part, people just try and handle the situation themselves. Sure, they get money from state and local governments to get them through the short term but it is not up to the government, IMO, to rebuild each and every home that did not have insurance to rebuild themselves. The government is not your mommy or daddy... They are not responsible for you. YOU are responsible for your wellbeing. Did you know that 81% of all the folks that lost property didn't own a home but were renting or living on welfare. All I heard was black and white people looking for a handout instead of trying to better themselves and their own situation. They have had 4 months to do something. What have these folks been doing for 4 months. I don't know about the other names you mentioned but Rove and Delay have been under a microscope for a couple months now and no litigation has been forthcoming. What the heck are you talking about... Are you a mouthpiece for CBS, right along with Dan Rather... Maybe you should retire as well. You are a political hack xxxx. In the future, I will refrain from writing you or sending anything but a birthday greeting once a year. I respectfully request that you do the same...

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I know it's fruitless to try to get anything through his thick noggin, but after all that's transpired lately, I was hoping he might show a glimmer of intelligence/independent thinking. My bad. And he started it! :(

like this.

Two RW bros. One Dem bro and me trying to explain how they're wrong, and Mom just wanting everyone to SHUT UP!!!!

politics are all over the place.

I keep changing the subject to The Red Sox or The Bruins or The Pats---soemthing they can always agree on.

We have estrangements in our family, too. I'm not sure if politics enters in, but this is with two women who grew up in our liberal home and were never satisfied with much of anything. They used to protest the Vietnam war, protest the draft, flag-burners and bra burners. (Well, maybe not the latter.)

Barbara was a guest on my radio show last year. She really helps to put things in perspective for families, especially at this time of the year.

Making worldwide peace a priority in 2006,

Radio_Lady

http://www.barbaralebey.com/

Family Estrangements: How They Begin, How to Mend Them, How to Cope with Them

Divorce; disputes over inheritances, family business, or elder care. Rifts over marriage partners, career choices, or sexual orientation--these are just some of the many ways that even close families can break apart. Yet this all-too-common and often devastating family problem, and its emotional fallout, has gone virtually unaddressed…until now.

In this remarkable book, Barbara LeBey, an Atlanta attorney and former judge, who herself suffered and resolved a family estrangement, shares the stories of people from every walk of life and of every age and race, to show how such rifts often begin and how they can usually be resolved.

Working closely with two family therapists, LeBey offers a set of tested guidelines to help you approach alienated or angry family members, deal with your own issues, and mend your broken family relationships--even if you think it may already be too late.

Compassionate, practical, and full of rich insight, this book is a beacon of hope and healing to which families everywhere will turn again and again.

You may want to remind him that the US DID have an attack on our soil. Its called 9/11. Repugs seem to forget this happened when Bush was in office.

I think your brother took the exact position that Jesus would have taken toward the Katrina victims...oh, no...wait...maybe not.

Sorry that your brother is an asshat. If it makes you feel any better, that letter could, and has, come from my THREE brothers. I love holiday get togethers with them.

...because it tells you which stores are exploiting Christmas specifically and which are exploiting all of the holidays in general. Watch him try to figure that one out.

NGU.

He's the same type of idiot as your brother.

Earlier this year I told him I was tired of his crap. Added his e-mail to my mail filter and I'll see him at our parents' funerals, but I won't speak to him.

If I had lived in Hitler's Germany I wouldn't support Nazi relatives. I consider * supporters every bit as bad and I think 30 years from now we'll have a hard time justifying why we maintained relationships with such racist, evil, hatemongers, family or not.

I still love my bros who have idiotic RW ideas. I hope they'll grow out of it when they're older. They're in their early 50s now. ;)

Because it's not my opinion.

I learned a lesson many years ago... that lesson was not to allow hateful people, intent on hurting me emotionally or physically, into my life.

My brother does just that. He was always nasty to me. He always spewed RW political crap, even when it wasn't called for. He always told me repeatedly how idiotic I was for not falling into line behind him like a good little bigot.

That's an abusive person. I don't allow myself to be abused by people.

I used to love the brother I grew up with. I do not love this person. I do not care a whit about him. You may still love your brothers, but there's nothing worth loving inside of this man and I refuse to carry on a relationship based on abuse.

When he dies, the world will be a better place, unless he does a complete 180 before that day...

I stand corrected. There are people who no longer influence me by being included in my life, either.


Anyway, have a Happy one! :hi:

He sounds like a very unhappy person.

Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, Savage, Drudge, NewsMax, and WorldNetDaily.

That provides him a very fair and balanced view of the world.

Surely you knew what his response would be?

I guess you could try to deconstruct the inaccuracies in his letter, or insist that he point to one factual error in yours (as in, I think there has been a bit of litigation on Mr. DeLay's plate recently) -- but why bother?

I'd say you're not going to change his mind, no way, no how. Maybe when the NSA hauls him away, he'll get it.

Until then, I'd honor his wishes and send him a hearty happy birthday once a year and leave it at that.

when he sent that tripe about Christmas vs. Happy Holidays. I know I'm knocking my head against a brick wall, and will stop doing that.

to Media Matters and ask him if he wants to revise his appraisal on information and the media.

I feel your pain. I don't have any relatives that feel this way, and rarely even run into anyone who still feels as your brother does about the ruling cabal ... but can imagine wanting to strangle them if I did. My suggestion is to "adopt" new relatives among the like-minded ... "they" say we are stuck with our relatives ... but we don't have to be close enough to let them irritate us.

Where does he live? In a cave? The media has NEVER been liberal, but even many of the highly conservative media are turning on the little liarbility (not a typo)in the White House and his merry band of Roving thugs.

I have a nun friend who voted for Bush and would do so again because for her, ABORTION is the ONLY issue. We did get into arguments but our friendship is much more precious, so we just decided to disagree and not discuss the topic at all. I'm not going to change her mind and she's not going to change mine, so why bother? Obviously, your brother thinks ver little of your relationship. He's not a very evolved person, is he?

BlueInPhilly ... my ex-husband votes only ONE issue and that is freedom to own every type of weaponry known to humanity. He is "with" the Democratic agenda but won't vote that way because "they want to take away my guns." This from a person who never hunts or even target shoots! You see why he is an ex.

Maybe you can send that to him.

hold onto the wiretap story for more than a year.

not people.

Kerry ALSO got more votes than any previous president. More people voted is all.

Bush's MARGIN was lower than any other president in modern history - that's what really matters.

And that's if you believe the vote count was "correct" and the exit poll "incorrect" ... if you buy that, there is (at least for now) a bridge in Brooklyn .... Really odd that exit poll showed 51/49 in favor of Kerry; and final vote came out 51/49 for boooshie, hmmmmmmmmmm? It's not like Diebold had promised the election to booooshie or anything ... or, wait a minute ... they did! Nice having the right friends, in the right places, at the right time.

helping the needy, unlike O'leily has been.

Also if the "Librul Media" are so liberal then why did the NYT hold onto the wire tapping story for more than a year - a year that would had most of HIS voters changing their minds.

Also how many WMD stories did the times carry the water for * on?? SEVERAL in fact most false WMD stories were started by them.

How many reporters have been subpeanoed in Plamegate - 25 reporters.

Liberal my ass... Somebody needs give your brother a swift crack up the side of the head

reply to him this: Merry Fitzodays -kind of a compromise???

that are raised in the same household with the same parents, in the same general environment can develop so completely differently (I am making alot of assumptions here which may be incorrect).

I would state with a fair amount of certainty that I am the only person in my family that is a liberal/progressive. I include parents, grandparents, siblings, aunts (whoops forgot about one of my aunts who is a proud, but family disowned, not by me, lesbian), uncles, etc.

Blind faith and blind loyalty. Utterly unnerving for the most part.

Olafr

or so they say he is my brother!
;-)

Damn, you couldn't sneeze at that one without a thousand talking points standing up and yelling "Gesundheit, you stupid lib!"

Let's see, I got

* Defense of sham elections on two continents
* Willingness to give up civil rights for security
* The "liberal media" dead horse, fresh with whip marks
* The "no terrorist attacks on US soil" dead horse, fresh with open wounds (DC Sniper, Anthrax anyone?). Never mind that the biggest attack on American soil happened on BEWSH'S WATCH (and, by a lot of people's assumption, with his admin's assistance)
* Brushing off, Babs Bush style, of the worst natural disaster in the modern era
* Capital L Libertarian "personal responsibility" hilarity
* Victim-blaming
* Ignorance of who runs CBS and NBC (hint: they're not Democrats)
* A grammatical and spelling nightmare

Not since Mann Coulter has one paragraph lied so much.

That would have been Iran. They had a secular democracy in 1953, but in 1954 the US and Britain overthrew it and installed a dictator. All because those democratic people wanted to nationalize their oil. Fancy that.

Dear Brother,
Your less than Christian attitude has stunned me. Your lack of brotherly love and compassion has me wondering who you really worship. Your response to all of my points was cruel and makes me realize how very afraid of the truth you are.

I can only say that you are in the minority with your views. More than half of the country is more aware of the political situation in this country than you are. I will be here should you wish to talk when the truth eeks it’s way out over the next several months

At the moment we are at an impasse. I hope that we can still have a relationship but will heed your wishes if that is what you really want. I hope that you find peace and happiness.

Love political hack xxxx

It really steamed me as I could hear those same words from my brother. We've got your back and I'm really sorry some of them are like this.

Good response OB!

You might want to add in something about the prodigal son and say that when he sees the light, he will be welcomed with open arms because love is stronger than the anger based on his ignorance.

Oh, and add, "I'll pray for you"...that always steams 'em.

did point out to him how hurtful his "Christian" attitudes are. I also linked to an article about people STILL living in tents, a good Iraqi war link and the inevitable fallout, and Quindlan's article about faux Christmas/Christian values.
But I decided he'll probably just delete, so stopped there. Thanks for your input!

I'll have to remember that one in times of need.

For over 50 years I did not get along with either of my two older siblings - we were political opposites. In the past year we have had to talk with each other on an almost daily basis because both of our parents have advancing Alzheimers. As we discuss and try to figure out medical insurance, health care, medicare, Plan B & D, doctors, housing, driving, expenses, etc. they have become frustrated and angry with all the problems and issues we face. I began to explain how their voting choices over the years(siblings live in Kansas and Florida) have affected the issues we now deal with daily. I started out very low key - not condemning.

Both of them eventually asked me how to become more aware. Like the younger generation they want one source of news they can trust. Unable to give them that one source I have at least convinced them to turn off Fox. Now when they learn about pending legislation or hear their own representatives make stupid comments, comments they once took at face value and now they analyze for actual content, they are very proud of themselves, send me articles of interest and call me for a pat on the back.

Be patient.

to the sad state of care for them in this country. My mother, her mother and my FIL all got it simultaneously in the 1990s and it was sheer hell and no resources.

you might offer the following, or something that resembles it...


Christmas and this Season in general, exists as a time of hope during the unusually dark and cold Winter. This is not the time when we should allow a chill in our hearts, but rather extend warmth to those we love and care about. There may always be differences among families, but this is a Season where we should celebrate the closeness of family and all we believe it stands for. Look around you and see both the Joy and the Misery this Season, and be thankful you are on the Joy side of the fence.

We often live to regret some of the decisions we make in haste, and those decisions will haunt us for the rest of our lives. So with only the kindest and warmest thoughts, I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy new Year.

********************************************

The reason I can empathize, is that my father passed away before I had a chance to clear up some things, and for that, I am remorseful.

It must be extremely difficult having a NeanderthaL in the family.

Tell your asshat brother that a true Christian helps without passing judgement.

Love him and don't worry about the rest.

At some point I stop trying with them and work on the others in my family who are open to another point of view. Still, it does make the Holidays more interesting.

You have my sympathies.

I honestly need to have more family like you, not your brother, and I need to have more neighbors, coworkers, friends...etc. who think like you do.

My whole family is very liberal except for one cousin, but he's smart enough to not bring up politics when the family is together because he knows we'd debate him until the cows come home (we never shut up). He's pretty much like "I know you don't agree with me, oh well, let's talk about something else" and generally has a sense of humor about it. I'm sorry your brother is being so unfortunate and lacking in perspective. :(

First, learn how the Electoral college works. Presidents aren't elected by popular vote, as you implied in your email. Also, the man who got the second most votes in US History is John Kerry. What that means, is that the election was so important to the people that more people came out to vote, for either man, in 2004. It was not due solely to George Bush as you claim. But that is a typical Republican tactic - take credit for what the other side does. I bet you think Civil Rights came about due to the Republicans, too, right? Women's Right to vote? Keep dreaming.
Second, the election in Iraq is already under contention. Polls were raided by gunman who falsified the results. The Iran-sympathizer party won big in Iraq, and now instead of 1 defeated Taliban in Afghanistan, we have two new Talibans in Iraq. Clearly the Republicans did not think this through.
Third, America is about Freedom. Freedom is why the country was founded in the first place. "Give me Liberty, or give me Death." Sound familiar? How about "Live Free or Die!" Recognize that state slogan? Americans (real Americans) would never give up a freedom to catch a terrorist. The entire reason the terrorist is plotting to attack us is BECAUSE we have those freedoms. Its plainly moronic to give them up to fight terrorism. Have MY rights been violated? Yes, they have. I have made international phone calls in the course of my job, and the NSA likely illegally tapped those calls. Same thing is true for every business that makes international calls. Once the government can violate your rights in a specific area, they can violate them in other areas using the first violation as precedent. Its too bad you are too stupid to understand that, but then again, you are a Republican.
Fourth, its a shame that you are so ignorant that you think that poor people who struggle for every meal and a roof over their head have the option of simply "better themselves and their own situation." In your little fascist fantasy world, everyone can make money just by making the decision to do so. But, you see, in the real world, some people are just screwed. Screwed by the system, screwed by circumstances, screwed by environment. But that is too ugly for you to face, so you pretend they are just out-of-work stock brokers who could get a 6 figure salary tomorrow with a refresher course at the local high school continuing education course.
Fifth, if you look out your window, you will notice houses of other people. These other people are what we call "our society." Unlike Gilligan, we don't all live on deserted islands all by ourselves. We live in a community. It is each person's responsibility to see to that community and keep it strong. You are taxed for money that is used to maintain the community you live in. You are taxed for money that is used to maintain the community others live in. That is how it works in this country - people pay taxes so that the government can use that money to help others that need it, whether it be farming subsidies or welfare. If you weren't so goddamn greedy and selfish, this might have occurred to you without me having to point it out so harshly. But again, you are just a Republican, and you only know what you see on Faux (Fox) News or in church. Are you a mouthpiece for the radical religious extremists ? You sure sound like it. You are a policial joke, xxxx. In the future, I will refrain from writing you or sending you anything but a birthday greeting, as you requested. At least until such time as you stop being an amoral, selfish, fascist bastard and start giving a crap about your family, friends and the rest of society. You simply aren't worth my time.

good one!

All good points, but my time limit is up. I responded and now we're officially not communicating. I'm not all broken up about that, as I knew about his basic politics. He has been influenced mightily by his church (don't know which one that is), his wife, and the preachings of all his fundie friends.

"If someone needs to monitor my email or listen to my phone conversations to keep me save (sic), then let them have at it."

Let me guess...he is totally supportive of "fighting for Iraqi freedoms." So does he even get the irony of his statement? It's probably hopeless, but if you brought this little discrepancy in his views to his attention, maybe a tiny sliver of light might begin to penetrate his brain.

I'm sorry that such a nice person as you has such a prick for a brother.

:hug:

ignorance never ceases to astound! :hug: I wonder what will eventually rock his world to the point where he wakes up.

DU has again helped me deal, and I only hope my clueless brother will wake up, though now it won't be caused by any of my doing. :hi: :loveya:

...haven't spoken to him in 8+ years.

:(

Oh well. Probably best...

Can't remember where I heard that ... but it's catchy.

I get covered up with that stuff from friends and relatives. I don't respond to it directly. Instead, I send them my cartoons. Pick one or more and shoot it to them. I prefer to spank them with Jesus.




Guaranteed to get a rise in the name of the Lord. They don't like you using Jesus on them.

There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware

I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind

I think it's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

What a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side

It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

We better stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, now, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

OMG, what a song. It was everywhere. Stephen Stills singing lead.

Thanks so much for posting this.

I had a silly argument with my brother that has now lasted almost 15 years.

Call him up. Tell him you love him and that his politics don't change that. Then give him a chance to vent.

Yes, be the bigger person. It might not work. But at least you'll have taken the high road. And 15 years later, this could all be just a memory -- if that.

Whatever happens... when you hang up the phone, have a beer.

:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

Now, that is a total bummer!..but really, I think it's all part of the propaganda..they brainwash these poor guys...and there are no other options over there..no R&R in swinging, downtown Baghdad!
I don't know what else to say...he won't change until he's ready to change and 'til then all you can do is love him anyway!

And not talk to each other about politics?????


Surely family is more important?????


I have right wing in-laws, and my only sister is pretty far to the right. But despite that, I love them and will continue to communicate and see them.

I'm sorry that your family may not be able to get past political leanings, but there is more to life than that.

Good luck and, well, good luck!

Why do I care? In a world of 'me, myself and I'..it is not beneficial on the surface. In this society the surface is all that matters, but I can't help myself...I hate being lied to...living a lie...believing lies. It just infuriates me. Or is it those behind the lies, remind me of the drunk, cruel, abusive, arrogant, angry, be-littling, shame-inducing characters of my lie-infested youth? And with each lie that is exposed do I feel better? No. It is all so convoluted that it actually makes sense...as my history parallels that of my country...and my ills mirror that of my country. I forget that the liars are as much a part of me as the truth-sayers, and both sides have invested everything in their choice of belief....themselves. A life spent reacting from fear is ugly, cruel, and just a horrible way to live. That deep-seeded fear of not having enough...or that somebody else will take your share if you do not bully your way through, grabbing up everything in sight that could possibly add to your feeling of security. And once you have it, you have to hold on tight because it's gone in the blink of an eye. So busy. So afraid. I vacillate back and forth between fear, and heaven. Heaven is that place that knows no fear. Heaven to me, is freedom... a moment in time...several when lucky...where you allow yourself to revel in the moment of truth...sans belongings and longings. My problem is my sight. I see cause and effect...need and greed...and above all I see pain. I know that pain can be bittersweet, and that the lessons learned from it are blessings. But to see the pain being inflicted on fellow human beings, for the greed that lives in power, is a hurt that has no salve. It is in me, but not of me. I have seen, and I cannot look away. It colors my view. I would like to not look, but if I don't look, what is all that pain and suffering borne for... then to teach lessons that desperately need to be learned? Is it not the meaning of humanity to witness each other's life? And if I deny their existence and pain, can I possibly make peace with my own?

If you criticize their leader, they come after you in a vicious personal manner.

He's totally brainwashed and has drunk the Kool-aid. Those talking points of his are so devoid of logic and truth it's insane.

Write him off, and tell him so. That's what I would do.

:)

Never argue with pseudo logic. It's a waste of your precious life.

And remember, lots of families go crazy during the holidays! We have it down, in fact, to a fine art.

:hug:

but your brother is a real DICK... kind of the "Cheney" type. So sorry you have to put up with that kind of crap. Ugh. :puke:

I've read quite a few posts from people here who have brothers/sister who are rabid right wingers and that (obviously) causes some degree of tension in a family. The weird thing is, my brother and I never agree on anything...EXCEPT politics! Weird how stuff like that works out...
:shrug:

Anyway, sorry to hear about your brother.