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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 09:27 PM
Original message
Baghdad demonstrations and the media: How the story changes.
Edited on Sat Dec-24-05 09:30 PM by oblivious
In December 23 reports, there were several hundred thousand demonstrators:

AP via Forbes, CBS, ABC, etc. (Dec 23) - Several hundred thousand people demonstrated after noon prayers in southern Baghdad Friday, many carrying banners decrying last week's elections.

http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2005/12/23/ap2412472.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/23/ap/world/mainD8EM19EO0.shtml
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1437256
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20051223-0708-iraq.html
http://www.columbian.com/news/APStories/AP12232005news76857.cfm
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/international/detail.asp?ID=74130&GRP=D
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/3544458.html

AP via CBC (Dec 23): In southern Baghdad, several hundred thousand people demonstrated after noon prayers, with many carrying banners denouncing last week's elections.
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/051223/w122328.html

AP via Al-Jazeera (Dec 23) - Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis demonstrated in the Iraqi capital on Friday to protest last week’s parliamentary elections, The Associated Press reported.
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=10368

But later on Dec 23 and Dec 24, the AP report drops from several hundred thousand to 20,000 max:

AP via US/UK papers (Dec 23-24): As many as 20,000 people demonstrated after noon prayers in southern Baghdad Friday
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1437350
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/iraq/bal-protests1223,1,7866970.story?coll=bal-nationworld-headlines
http://www.tribune-democrat.com/editorials/feeds/apcontent/apstories/apstorysection/D8EM25H85.xml.txt/resources_apstoryview
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002701014_webiraq23.html
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-122305iraq_wr,0,2909135.story?coll=la-story-footer&track=morenews
http://www.kfmb.com/stories/story.31826.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5500223,00.html
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/12/23/international/i055803S54.DTL
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/3544774.html

Juan Cole grabbed that lower number:

AFP and AP via Juan Cole: Then, Al-Zaman/ AFP and AP report that some 20,000 mainly Sunni protesters (along with some secular Shiites) came out in several cities to protest what they called election fraud.
http://www.juancole.com/

But even that lower number was too much for Washington Post, so they cut it to 10,000:

Wash Post (DEC 24) - more than 10,000 demonstrators gathered in the western part of the city to protest an election they called a sham.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/23/AR2005122301467.html

Reuters liked that lower number too:

Dec 23 (Reuters) - Around 10,000 Sunni Arabs, angry at the results of last week's Iraqi election, flocked from their mosques and marched through Baghdad after Friday prayers
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/KAR350618.htm

But the New York Times and the BBC felt even that was going too far cutting it to several thousand:

New York Times (Dec. 23) - Several thousand Sunni Arabs gathered Friday in a residential neighborhood in central Baghdad to protest what they said was broad-based fraud in elections last week...
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/24/international/middleeast/24iraq.html

BBC (23 Dec): Thousands of Sunni Muslims and secular Shia protested in Baghdad on Friday
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4555850.stm

So AP jumped on the bandwagon, cutting their numbers from several hundred thousand to 20,000 to now "thousands":

AP via ABC and Forbes (Dec 24): thousands of people demonstrated in Baghdad and elsewhere claiming election fraud.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1439749
http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2005/12/23/ap2412908.html

Of course China didn't like the idea of massive demonstrations anywhere in the news, so they went with the 'thousands' figure":

Xinhua via China Daily: Thousands of Sunni Arabs on Friday demonstrated in the street of Baghdad
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-12/24/content_506262.htm

But the LA times thought even that was too much, so they cut it to "hundreds"

LA Times (Dec 24) - Hundreds of demonstrators in the capital waved banners accusing the independent election commission of corruption and branded the election "sham."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-122305troops_lat,0,943167.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Warning: These AP reports disappear fast.

Edit: Added Al-jazeera link.
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is an important observation.
It reminds me of the huge protest in Washington D.C. on Sept. 24.
The CBS Sunday morning show merely showed a closeup of a little sign
that said "peace" and that was the coverage.
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Somewhere I saw a bunch of protest pics, but I can't find them now.
They proved the 'hundreds of thousands' figure was correct. Something like this, but much more telling:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/23/ap/world/mainD8EM19EO0.shtml
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. With digital cameras and phones, the eye witness accounts
Edited on Sat Dec-24-05 09:56 PM by Olney Blue
will live on....... and each of those hundreds of thousands KNOWS the truth.
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. Incredible.
Thanks for taking the time to coordinate that.
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DemInDistress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. Good catch and thanks for posting that info
its amazing to watch how the inner-circle works here...
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks, oblivious. Kudos. n/t
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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks for the hard work
I'm very impressed.

As a reward for your efforts, I will be your fifth "greatest" vote.

Thanks again, and Happy Holidays.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. Thank you because sometimes I feel I am losing my mind....
but the photos never lie....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5675624
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yes, those are the photos. Thanks leftchick, can you post that one here?
Edited on Sat Dec-24-05 10:00 PM by oblivious
Edit: leftchick's link http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5675624#5677718
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. there are several but here is one of the best....


I can post more if you want them! :)
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yes, please, perhaps with the LA Times report as the caption!!!
LA Times (Dec 24) - Hundreds of demonstrators in the capital waved banners accusing the independent election commission of corruption and branded the election "sham."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-122305...
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. here you go....
This MSRNC story still sticks to the real numbers...

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10585658

<snip>

Several hundred thousand people demonstrated after noon prayers in southern Baghdad Friday, many carrying banners decrying last week’s elections. Many Iraqis outside the religious Shiite coalition allege that the elections were unfair to smaller Sunni Arab and secular Shiite groups.
“We refuse the cheating and forgery in the elections,” one banner read.




and then there is this... :eyes:

LA Times (Dec 24) - Hundreds of demonstrators in the capital waved banners accusing the independent election commission of corruption and branded the election "sham."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-122305...
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. feel free to post these at the progressive gallery for easy access later
http://GlobalFreePress.com

peace
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. That actually fills me with hope.
Edited on Sat Dec-24-05 10:13 PM by Gregorian
At least they're able to speak out. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe tomorrow.

edit- I spoke a bit too soon. Some of the stories are not so good. This is getting so old! Please leave these people in peace. Now we can't leave. We have to protect them. But not under Bush.
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. I like this one
Looking down the street,
the crowd just seems to go on forever...
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #11
25. Looks like "more than a few"
activists out there.
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. thank you very much for putting this together for us
:toast:

looks like the M$M treat their focus groups just like ours :crazy:



peace
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. So where are those flowers?
That is just the most revealing. If that doesn't sum it all up.

Those wonderful people have been treated like crap for decades now. Maybe it's about to finally come to an end. I hope.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. Hundreds??
Edited on Sat Dec-24-05 10:13 PM by Hissyspit
How can you go from several hundred thousand to hundreds? Who in the world could mistake hundreds for SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND? We're supposed to buy that?

Big :wtf:
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. hell I bet most americans don't even know this happened
what with the war on Christmas and all. :eyes:
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I'm sure you're right.
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. And it's just so in your face. They just don't care about credibility.
Yeah we're lying. So what!

LA Times - December 23 - 8:55am AP report - 20,000 protesters
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-122305iraq_wr,0,2909135.story?coll=la-story-footer&track=morenews

LA times - December 23 - 1:46pm - in-house report - hundreds of protesters
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-122305troops_lat,0,943167.story?coll=la-home-headlines


ABC shows both AP stories on Dec 23 - one with several hundred thousand, one with 20,000. The story number shows the lower number was posted later.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1437256
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1437350


Houston Chronicle - AP story 7:58am - several hundred thousand
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/3544458.html

Houston Chronicle - 11:41am - AP story - 20,000 - same reporter
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/3544774.html

Were the propaganda editors on coffee break when the first stories got posted?
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. Pls re-post same text but check box to format in plain text
Edited on Sat Dec-24-05 10:23 PM by snot
so anyone who wants to use this info doesn't have to separately copy and paste each truncated link. Thank you.
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. REPOSTED IN PLAIN TEXT 
In December 23 reports, there were several hundred thousand
demonstrators:

AP via Forbes, CBS, ABC, etc. (Dec 23) - Several hundred
thousand people demonstrated after noon prayers in southern
Baghdad Friday, many carrying banners decrying last week's
elections.

http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2005/12/23/ap2412472.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/23/ap/world/mainD8EM19EO0.shtml
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1437256
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20051223-0708-iraq.html
http://www.columbian.com/news/APStories/AP12232005news76857.cfm
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/international/detail.asp?ID=74130&GRP=D
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/3544458.html

AP via CBC (Dec 23): In southern Baghdad, several hundred
thousand people demonstrated after noon prayers, with many
carrying banners denouncing last week's elections.
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/051223/w122328.html

AP via Al-Jazeera (Dec 23) - Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis
demonstrated in the Iraqi capital on Friday to protest last
week’s parliamentary elections, The Associated Press reported.
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=10368

But later on Dec 23 and Dec 24, the AP report drops from
several hundred thousand to 20,000 max:

AP via US/UK papers (Dec 23-24): As many as 20,000 people
demonstrated after noon prayers in southern Baghdad Friday
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1437350
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/iraq/bal-protests1223,1,7866970.story?coll=bal-nationworld-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true
http://www.tribune-democrat.com/editorials/feeds/apcontent/apstories/apstorysection/D8EM25H85.xml.txt/resources_apstoryview
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002701014_webiraq23.html
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-122305iraq_wr,0,2909135.story?coll=la-story-footer&track=morenews
http://www.kfmb.com/stories/story.31826.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5500223,00.html
hhttp://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/12/23/international/i055803S54.DTL
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/3544774.html

Juan Cole grabbed that lower number:

AFP and AP via Juan Cole: Then, Al-Zaman/ AFP and AP report
that some 20,000 mainly Sunni protesters (along with some
secular Shiites) came out in several cities to protest what
they called election fraud.
http://www.juancole.com /

But even that lower number was too much for Washington Post,
so they cut it to 10,000:

Wash Post (DEC 24) - more than 10,000 demonstrators gathered
in the western part of the city to protest an election they
called a sham.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/23/AR2005122301467.html

Reuters liked that lower number too:

Dec 23 (Reuters) - Around 10,000 Sunni Arabs, angry at the
results of last week's Iraqi election, flocked from their
mosques and marched through Baghdad after Friday prayers
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/KAR350618.htm

But the New York Times and the BBC felt even that was going
too far cutting it to several thousand:

New York Times (Dec. 23) - Several thousand Sunni Arabs
gathered Friday in a residential neighborhood in central
Baghdad to protest what they said was broad-based fraud in
elections last week...
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/24/international/middleeast/24iraq.html

BBC (23 Dec): Thousands of Sunni Muslims and secular Shia
protested in Baghdad on Friday
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4555850.stm

So AP jumped on the bandwagon, cutting their numbers from
several hundred thousand to 20,000 to now
"thousands":

AP via ABC and Forbes (Dec 24): thousands of people
demonstrated in Baghdad and elsewhere claiming election fraud.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1439749
http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2005/12/23/ap2412908.html

Of course China didn't like the idea of massive demonstrations
anywhere in the news, so they went with the
"thousands" figure:

Xinhua via China Daily: Thousands of Sunni Arabs on Friday
demonstrated in the street of Baghdad
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-12/24/content_506262.htm

But the LA times thought even that was too much, so they cut
it to [u]"hundreds"

LA Times (Dec 24) - Hundreds of demonstrators in the capital
waved banners accusing the independent election commission of
corruption and branded the election "sham."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-122305troops_lat,0,943167.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Warning: These AP reports disappear fast.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
20. I was at a protest in Washington DC on September 24th, 2005
where six hundred thousand of my fellow patriots gathered to protest Bush and the Iraq war. The local news reported it as being 10s of 1000s of protesters. Yeah, 60 10s of 1000s. Funny that, huh. It's a habit with the American presstitutes to lowball to absurdity.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
26. AP- December 25, 2005
"Two guys raised their voices in protest of election fraud."

AP- December 26, 2005

"Iraqi elections went off without a hitch."

AP- November 6, 2006

"Republicans sweep into Congress, marking the first time that one party has held all Congressional seats."
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
27. Great catch!
Amazing post. Its fantastic the way you lay everything out in chronological order. Quite compelling.

:thumbsup:
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Thanks for your feedback and thanks to the posters above as well.
I wanted to read the article in this OP:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2003983

But it had already been deleted so I did a search and found that AP had one article with "hundreds of thousands", one with "20,000" and another with "thousands" all three active on hundreds of newspaper websites across the US and the world. I just couldn't believe it.

No explanation or correction. You would think for such a serious change in numbers they would owe their readers an explanation. But they just don't give a shit. They obviously know they can print anything and none of their newspaper customers even bother to read it or question it. I guess only when newspaper readers write in by the thousands complaining about the BS they're being fed will the newspapers ever demand any accountability from AP.
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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
28. Al-Jazeera is currently going with the 10,000 number
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/86691436-0827-463A-913F-AC8F8BD07150.htm

You'd expect them to be the most accurate...
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. That report is from "Agencies", which means AFP, Reuters or AP.
Aljazeera seems to use AFP the most, followed by Reuters and then AP (just my general impression). When they say 'agencies', I guess it means they adapted their story from two or more agency reports. It wasn't their own reporters observing and doing the report.

Compare the first 5 paragraphs of the Reuters report with the first 5 of the Aljazeera.net report. Compare paragraph by paragraph - just very minimal paraphrasing, so it's a Reuters report:

1. Reuters original
Iraqi Sunnis demonstrate against election "fraud"
23 Dec 2005 15:08:57 GMT
Source: Reuters
By Mariam Karouny

BAGHDAD, Dec 23 (Reuters) - Around 10,000 Sunni Arabs, angry at the results of last week's Iraqi election, flocked from their mosques and marched through Baghdad after Friday prayers, chanting "No to America" and calling for a re-vote.

Carrying black, white and red Iraqi national flags and clutching posters of Sunni Arab politicians, they strode through a western district of the capital before listening to their leaders denounce the vote as fraudulent.

"They wanted to use these false election results to say we are a minority in this country," said Adnan al-Dulaimi, a leading member of Iraq's main Sunni Arab coalition, the Iraqi Accordance Front (IAF), which failed to do as well as it had expected in the Dec. 15 ballot.

Speaking from the balcony of a building with gunmen on the roof, he called on Iraqis to unite and refrain from violence.

The street protest followed days of complaints by leaders of Sunni and secular parties about provisional election results.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/KAR350618.htm

2. Aljazeera report (adapted from agencies)

Sunnis rally against Iraq 'vote fraud'

Friday 23 December 2005, 19:40 Makka Time, 16:40 GMT

About 10,000 Sunni Arabs, expressing anger at the preliminary results of the Iraqi election, flocked from their mosques and marched through Baghdad after Friday prayers, condemning America and calling for a re-vote.

Carrying black, white and red Iraqi national flags and clutching posters of Sunni Arab politicians, they strode through a western district of the capital before listening to their leaders denounce last week's vote as fraudulent.

Adnan al-Dulaimi, a leading member of Iraq's main Sunni Arab coalition, the Iraqi Accordance Front (IAF), said: "They wanted to use these false election results to say we are a minority in this country."

The coalition failed to do as well as it had expected in the ballot on 15 December.

Speaking from the balcony of a building with armed men on the roof, he called on Iraqis to unite and refrain from violence.

Friday's street protests in Baghdad and other Iraqi cities followed days of complaints by leaders of Sunni and secular parties about provisional election results.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/86691436-0827-463A-913F-AC8F8BD07150.htm
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