"Why rebuild a ghetto?" My RW aunt says tonight.

This was in reference to Katrina and the rebuilding of New Orleans.

I just walked out of the room. I wasn't going to make a scene in front of everyone, especially since I would get the blame for elevating things.

But the second she said that, the anger and resentment I felt almost made me bust. I mean, the inconsiderate nature of these people is blinding! She didn't even have any thought of the people whose homes she was talking about. The people really affected.

"Why rebuild a ghetto?"

Remember where you came from, Aunt. That's why we rebuild. But this time we won't make it a fucking ghetto!

edit: spelling and clarification

I am so sorry you have an aunt who is so misguided.

Tell her to put the koolaid down - now!

I wouldn't want you to be upset with me.

Don't worry, I don't think you could offend me there....

Don't censor yourself on my behalf, I beg you!

thinking of the Black neighborhoods. I am sure the rich mansions are something she would want back.

Ughhh.

edit: typo

You always have to make a stand for your beliefs, even if it's friends or family. Perhaps you can educate them in the process. But even if you don't, they'll always know that the world doesn't see the world the same way they do.

And I agree with you. However, I've already learned that any discussion with her would have not been worthwhile.

I grew up listening to my dad and her (his sister) arguing about politics. Now that I know what they were saying, I know that she is a lost cause.

The rest of my family is not in the same opinion as her.

My mom is Colombian and dad, before he died, was from Virgina, an old southerner with old southern beliefs.

But even as a child, I knew I felt differently. And as a teenager, me and my dad would have these discussions. And these discussion became more intense and more intellectual as I got into my twenties and we talked over a bottle of booze.

He respected where I was coming from and finally told me he was a product of his upbringing. He was born in 1922 in southern Virginia. In the end, he died in his house surrounded by black nurses.

I know he finally saw the light.

to hell w/her. FORGET IT. Don't waste your good energy on this old idiot!

Not worth the energy.

:(

:kick:

They don't respect me. Nothing I say is of any value to them, so it would be a waste of my time. They have to come to conclusions on their own and since they are willfully ignorant, I doubt anything will change.

It's a sad conclusion to reach, but it's true.

yr words are of value to us, it's their loss if they don't know what they have

:hug: (((((((((((((((((pitohui))))))))))))))))))

It's because of past mental health issues they can so easily disregard anything I say. Like Rodney Dangerfield used to say, "I don't get no respect." Unfortunately, my family doesn't stop and wonder if the way I was raised (strict fundamentalism; abusive authoritarian father) had anything to do with problems I suffered later in life. :shrug:

I've never been "crazy," though. My mind functions just fine and it has always been keen and astute. Funny that they'll all come to me when their computers need fixing, but disregard anything I have to say about life, the universe and everything. It's like they think my mind functions well enough to fix their computers, edit their papers, etc., but when it comes to politics and religion, suddenly my mind doesn't work very well.

I've learned to keep my mouth shut.

If you let it go and act like what was said was of no consequence and you know that the statement is erroneous and bigoted, you are as much to blame as he who says nothing!

:kick:

is based on racism.

To remove it would be to tear other parts of the fabric too. Indeed, it has been so well woven in, that many people do not know it is part of the overall weave.

Peace.

I really believe we need to build planned neighborhoods of poverty. The idea that everyone should either be subsidized enough to qualify for full-code housing or be required to find jobs (yes, plural) that pay enough to afford standard housing is not sound.

There are ghettos in every major city in all the developed countries I know of. There are huge ghettos in every major city in "third world" countries, assuming countries like India to be such. What little design work is done in those areas is basically done by organized and disorganized criminals.

There have always been outskirts of towns where the poor lived. There is no reason to not create safe housing and sanitary facilities, but there is also no reason to provide a Disney World either.

Extreme conservatives will never allow "their" money to be used to create a Disneyland for the poor. They need oppressed people to staff their wonderlands. The only hope I see is to establish low-code designs and standards. Whenever I talk with people about creating campgrounds for people who are homeless I get, "Oh, no!" from welfare supporters and, "No vacation grounds for them!" from the crimially greedy.

So, I actually have an answer for the aunt. I doubt it is one she or many readers of this post will agree with. But there you have it. My answer to poverty is to design for it.

John

Thanks. No, my Aunt would not even be able to get past the first paragraph without spewing Limbaughcities, but I understand your point.

Disneyland isn't required, just basic needs. A place that actually gives an oppurtuinity to grow, rather than stagnate and poorly maintain the "peasant" class.

That has already been tried and it's the cause of more poverty. You can't isolate the poor to one area, because that area will lose it's economy eventually and be cut off economically. That causes uemployment to go up.

I would love to know where it was tried!!

I know there have been warehouses for the poor (tenements) but that's not what I'm talking about.

I know there have been large scale apartment complexes of a more modern bent, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Please post leads, if not links, to what you are talking about.

I would also add that the people who live there should be running the place, not some governmental agency that learned its skills from Indian Affairs.

I got confused about exactly what you were saying

due to militancy.

Please, don't censor yourself in any of my threads. It is against my principle.

to restore New Orleans and much of the areas devastated by the storm.

who happens to be a representative from Louisiana.

We were at a (rather touristy) musical in Chicago, and the three next ladies next to us were obvious Pukes. They started talking as how Babs Bush was right: some of the Hurricane survivors never had it so good. Then, one of the ladies says, "We shouldn't rebuild New Orleans. It's God's way of telling us that spot should have remained underwater."

My hubby was on the other side of me and couldn't hear all this. But I related what was happening and said, "My God, if they don't shut up, I'm going to puke." So Dear Hubby, good soul that he is, begins talking very loudly about what an absolute asshole Bush is. I, very loudly, begin agreeing with him. The Puke ladies got very quiet and then found different seats.

Of what needs to be done. She obviously isn't too smart to think that the city would be rebuilt with the same poor conditions. Look at what Chicago has done, they've demolished the poor housing and are building new mixed-income, culturally diverse communities. The Hurricane was a tragedy, but also gave opportunity for New Orleans to clean up the city and make it more livable.

It's the classic repug tactic. Define the base as something you can easily defend, and go with it. Of course no one wants to rebuild a ghetto, whether for the first time or repair...

The truth is that she (my aunt) is racist even if she doesn't know it, and that's why she has taken these attitudes. The sad thing is, we're "minorities" (hate the word) and she still has these views.

Peace.

Remember how, soon after Katrina hit, Rep. Richard Baker (R-LA) was overheard talking with some lobbyists (what a surprise, right?).

And he told them the following (first reported by the Wall Street Journal):

"We finally cleaned up public housing in New Orleans. We couldn't do it, but God did."

He defended his comments by saying he has always wanted to improve low-income housing.

I covered this on my blog some months ago:

http://progressiveminds.bloghi.com/2005/09/09/whooping-foot-in-mouth-disease.html

People still do.

The "condition" of N.O. is up for debate. If Katrina, et al, is due to 'global warming' (or 'induced ecological upheaval', which seems more accurate given the randomness OF the weather), rebuilding in that region would be as sensical as rebuilding next to a river where we've had big floods.

But N.O. was never a ghetto. Unless she was there before Katrina and toured the whole city (yeah, right - she just saw what was said on TV)

And the oil refineries ought to be moved too... but we won't see the oil companies doing that any time soon either.

i know your heart is in the right place, toad, but the only way we can abandon the flood plains and the coasts is to abandon civilization itself

get out a map sometime, you will quickly notice that new orleans is not on the ocean, it is well inland, and is a vital transportation network on the mississippi river

we may as well shut down and be bangla desh if we give up every city on a river or on a coast, that doesn't leave any major cities i can think of, other than las vegas, and we can't survive as a free nation dealing blackjack to ea. other

the oil refineries should not be moved because, gasp, that is where the oil is and this is where we have people trained & willing to do the work, we want the work, we are happy to contribute, we would just like to be appreciated for what we contribute

if we were nothing but titty bars it would be easy to relocate in the middle of a desert but since we actually provide resources & services we do need to be on the river

if it's okay to spend money rebuilding Florida, since that's a place prone to hurricane damage. Of course, she'll say yes. Then you can catch her by asking why is Florida okay and not New Orleans--is it because that money will be spent helping <gasp!> black people?

RW'ers stammer and studder most every time.

Some forget that these were communities, with friends and families and all that entails. They were poor, true, but more than a few actually owned homes and businesses there which are gone forever. This is what kills me the most. To dismiss the area as just a "ghetto" dehumanizes the inhabitants.

Many a ghost wandered New Orleans, a great sentimental attachment to the city and its people. Their spirits are greatly unhappy with the demise of their beloved home.

Tell your aunt that ghosts do not suffer fools gladly. Everything that goes around, comes around.

i got a simple singlewide trailer. its all i have but by god its MINE. its housed and sheltered my kids for eight years now, and it (OH NO) sits in a park out in the country. Its all my youngest has ever known.

My Husbands family went through that awful flood in North Dakota a few years back, and never EVER went through the horror the folks on the coast are going through. When I went up to visit there about a yr later, I saw all the trailers that were provided for the displaced people there, and they were sure happy to have them. There sure as hell werent tents!

ta hell with your aunt, i have relatives like yours too and she can kiss my trailer park ASS.

I caught this accidentally today - and don't know the douche bags braying there (other than Buchanan). But one of them had the gall to call the hurricane a photo op meant to drive W's numbers down!

Jesus. I'm sorry you have things like that in your family. Next year--holiday gatherings without racist-sounding jack-asses? Your stomach lining will probably be better off for it.

You have better self control than me!!

and so I ask this question. If pro-life, you'd think they'd want people to have homes and places to live so they can give birth and raise their children.

Leave no child behind, my ass! :grr:

:kick:

About the people who lived there. She's saying that "those people" would turn anywhere they live into a crime-ridden and poverty-stricken ghetto. This attitude really came to the forefront back in September. I actually had to stay away from several co-workers and acquaintances who gave their racist attitudes free reign in the midst of the rapidly proliferating urban legends about looting and rapes. I made a point of sending them links debunking the incidents later. Not hearing too much from them now.

What your aunt, and others, fail to realize is that New Orleans had one of the highest rates of Black homeownership in the country. For a lot of those people, those modest homes represented generations of struggle to own property. Ask your aunt how she'd feel if a natural disaster destroyed her home that she'd worked hard for, and some wealthy elitists like Bill Gates and Paris Hilton decided her neighborhood wasn't worth rebuilding because it wasn't somewhere they would live. It's often a matter of perspective.

strength. I'm not one to believe that you have to argue with everyone, everytime. I pick my battles. I have boldly stated that I wholeheartedly disagree and that we should move the subject to something else and just agree that we don't agree. That works for me. Some people are just beyond reason.

Yes! That's exactly how I feel!

no one wants to rebuild slum housing, we were in process of tearing down & replacing the most awful slum housing already, such as desire projects

many fine wealthy homes, the economic tax base such as lakeview, were also destroyed

are we allowed to rebuild the fine homes? are we allowed to rebuild anything?

or is the truth that she would have all of us homeless forever because a black child might get an extra $1 of federal tax money?

i'm not yelling at you, i'm yelling at an attitude, the same attitude that has destroyed the public schools -- this attitude of no one must be helped because someone not of our class or not of our race might somehow also be helped

it's beyond racism, i don't even know what to call it, it's anti-humanity really

remind FEMA officials of that statement...if a hurricane or earthquake ever destroys HER home.

"Well, I don't live in a ghetto now, do I?"

Ugh.