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Is This Some Sick Joke? They've got to be kidding!! (re: Prisons in Iraq)

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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 11:12 AM
Original message
Is This Some Sick Joke? They've got to be kidding!! (re: Prisons in Iraq)
Check out this snippet from the NY Times:

WASHINGTON, Dec. 24 - The commander of American-run prisons in Iraq says the military will not turn over any detainees or detention centers to Iraqi jailers until American officials are satisfied that the Iraqis are meeting United States standards for the care and custody of detainees.

"Bottom line, we will not pass on facilities or detainees until they meet the standards we define and that we are using today," the commander, Maj. Gen. John D. Gardner of the Army, said in a telephone interview this week from Iraq.

Entire article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/25/international/middleeast/25detain.html?hp&ex=1135486800&en=f9a832748ac510e7&ei=5094&partner=homepage

After what happened at Abu Ghraib, how in the world do we think we even have the moral high-ground to talk about our "standards of care" when it comes to detainees?

I guess our standards of care include things like waterboarding, to make a prisoner think they are drowning?

Is that the standard of care we want to impart to the Iraqis before they take control of their own prisons?
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. Lowering the bar again?
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. Thats like a criminal giving out law advice- crazy - Merry Fitzmas
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. That's exactly right! My mouth just dropped when I saw this!
Are we going to give lessons on waterboarding, once we let the Iraqis take over their own prisons?

Or maybe we'll simply produce a manual on how to hold someone in a stress position for hours on end!

The possibilities are limitless here!
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. the manuel would complicate things, the correct way is to turn a blind
eye and let the underlings do whatever they would like(human pyramids are simple enough)and that will allow your higher ups in the chain of command get off scott free. Becasue an underling is a lot easier to replace than a supervisor. This is true at Burger King, the office world and the military world.

Peace on earth and I am saying a prayer now for the Iraqis and our own people that are killing them.
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Sadly, you hit the nail on the head there.
This should NOT be our values. I hardly recognize my country anymore, we've gone so far off course.
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shenmue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. The fox runs the henhouse!
Aaaaaaaaaack!

:wow:

:crazy:

:nuke:
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DIKB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
4. OMG
The irony is THICK!!!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
7. So, now the hostage taking is out in the open.
We're holding these people for leverage with the government because obviously we couldn't care less about humane treatment AND have been taking hostages in secret since Day 1 of this occupation.

Shame.
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kliljedahl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
8. I thought the same thing when I read it
Where's that irony smilie when you need it?
This is all I've got: y




Keith’s Barbeque Central
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emanymton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. There Is One Thing... This Does Show...
that there are people (in the middle) who have been put into an absolute losing position who still believe in the constitution (even though shrub and Co don't) trying to do the right thing.

Even though the criminals in charge have thrown out the contstitution, honest people have not. We may still win when the honest people in the middle stand up and do the right thing.

I am not holding my breath, but there is hope.!!!


Oh FUCK IT!!! Send shrub and Co to Hague war crimes trial.!
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SofaKingLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
11. How can we in good conscience let the Iraqis take over their prisons
before we teach them the proper way to sodomize prisoners with glowsticks?
:shrug:
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julianer Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
12. Just thought I'd point out the
absolute insult to our intelligence in imagining that either we have forgotten Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo or that we believe the lies about 'rotten apples'.

Neither of these things is true however for most of the world and most of America, so who is this person intending to convince?
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. Let's be realistic about this.
There have been many, many documented cases of torture in Iraqi prisons run by the Iraqis...that is happening NOW.

We can't in good conscious send detainees to them NOW, regardless of the criminal acts that happened in the PAST in our own prisons.

If we did, it would be just a criminal as what we did in our own prisons before.
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. how can anyone believe we are not torturing when we made it LEGAL?
thats just nonsense.

peace
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
15. The hypocrisy gave me a bitter laugh
The US - promoters of torture - chastising the competition. Iraq can always use rendition like the US does, I suppose.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. hypocrisy and double-standards duJour...
Edited on Sun Dec-25-05 11:08 PM by Triana
...all I can say. We DO NOT have the moral high ground when it comes to ANYTHING in this country - that includes prisoner treatment, terrorism, war profiteering, or human rights abuses - NOTHING.

George W. Bush has SEEN TO IT that we have NO MORAL HIGH GROUND to stand on when it comes to these issues.
_ _ _ _ _

HI NSA.

F*ck you and YOUR president. He's NOT mine. He did this CRAP in my name and I do NOT approve.
Stick that in your 'terrorist' filter and CHOKE on it. Morons.
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