I got a political sermon in Christmas mass. ARRRRGHH!

Yep. The War on Christmas sermon made its rounds. There were some surprises because I thought it took a more militant tone than I expected. Paraphrasing, he said, I don't celebrate Kwanzaa, I don't celebrate Hannukah or any other holiday but the birth of Christ. FoxNews last night reported that our vice-president, Dick Cheney, celebrated Christmas with the troops in Iraq. The soldiers in Iraq are all celebrating Christmas, I assure you. So, please, say Merry Christmas for the rest of the week.

There was so much more, but that's all I could stomach to remember. I had my purse strap on the ready on my shoulder and I would have walked out, but I was there for my dad. Afterwards, my dad said that he was confused about what this War on Christmas was all about, but that he now recognized that it was another political ploy by the right to stir up their base.

I have been noticing that church sermons are becoming echo chambers for the right-wing talking points. They repeat the exact same words and the same analogies. Too much of a coincidence. Are churches being astroturfed by the right?

That is way out of bounds.

were agnostics and atheists.

I'm an atheist and I believe in December 25 as much as I believe in the other 364 days. But strawmen are so much fun to kick around.

Your post indicates, no.

Way to kill a perfectly snarky comment. :P

tax exempt staus needs to be revoked.



Keith’s Barbeque Central

churches more often & tape-record the sermons. Then send them to the IRS - over and over and over and over again...

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

for this one. It's WAY out of bounds.

Dirtbag.

You don't need to talk politics in the letter. Just point out the fact that you feel it is inappropriate for political debates to be taken up in God's house. Because it is.

jc wasnt even born on xmas

This year, that fell on October 18th.

Ask the preacher why he hates Jesus so much that he forgot His birthday?

to counteract the influence of the celebration of Sol Invictus (which is -surprise- Dec. 25).

publication

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5684941

My sympathies to you. It is a very sad thing when one can not find solace in your place of worship.

:(

mass up to that point. Then it became all about forcing your religious views on everybody else.

to mix politics with religion. This bothers me very much. The Repubs seem to believe the have some type of a claim on God that he likes them best. Perhaps because they are all rich they believe god has rewarded them for their beliefs. This also disturbs me: some church back around the time of the elections had a Prince of Peace theme and a what would Jesus do type of analogy...they are now under investigation by the IRS for promoting an anti-war theme and presumably an anti-Bush thing and could now loose their tax exempt status. I have to tell you I'll bet there are far more churches pushing the Faux news talking points like you had to endure than the other way around. But who gets called on the carpet? I do have a very nice grown son who turned out religious. Very decent kid. Caught me one day here at DU typing in capitol letters across the subject line TAX THE CHURCHES. We had a little fight and i felt embarrassed. It's hard to be on the side that stands for the intellectual honesty VS the side that has the emotional guilt.

a few years ago who said he looked at other religions from around the world and he decided that christians were doing the best economically and that's when he decided to be "saved".

dissonance. They have forgotten the poor, they lie and are unethical in business. And as long as they go to church, they will be saved.

What a wonderful life.

I'm Presbyterian. We have a guest minister every now and then who is a fire-breathing right-winger, but I just skip the weeks he'll be there. One week I couldn't because I had signed up to do the "coffee hour" after the service well in advance and I thought my head would explode as we "prayed for the President" etc. I wonder if he prayed for Clinton as he worked for peace in N. Ireland, etc. I doubt it.

Which, when you think about their agenda that we're headed for a Holy War, would be in line with their logic. Those asshole Republicans actually will tell you that it's the Muslims who are trying to conquer the world, and try to claim that it's US, an incluse us, that they're after. We shouldn't get suckered into their polarity way of thinking.

to expect a politics free religious ceremony.

Of course religion is political. It always has been and always will be.

This is why the founding fathers of the United States tried to restrict its influence on government by authoring the Bill of Rights, because they were well aware of how religion and politics mesh.

I am frequently amazed that the United States was able to exist so long without people like me being burned at the stake (or the equivalent.) I question whether these protections such as I have enjoyed can last all that much longer. I suspect it can't.

Nothing disingenious about expecting churches to respect the boundaries of a secular government. When they don't, they're talking about Holy War. That's something which I think is plain stupid and suicidal, but these people believe that Armageddon is a given.

for a all the good it will do....

Blatantly "political" on a "holy holiday"

It was a literal re-run from 20 years ago about keeping Christ in Christmas. (As my son said - why do you think we're here at Midnight Mass, for God's Sake?) The pastor read a story about a child who shows up to work at Santa's workshop who is a great carpenter and who turns out to be - ta-da! - the Christ Child ( bet you didn't see that one coming!) At least we all had a wonderful belly laugh on the way home in the car.

By the way, the retired priest who assisted at Mass? He and the Deacon spent a good part of the day with a group of farm workers who are stuck here in NYS. They were badly injured in a propane explosion at the house the farmer had for them and would lose their workman's comp if they went back to Mexico. The Deacon is assigned to serve the migrant workers here and he has been working hard to contact the families back home and arrange new housing and collect donations for these guys. I mention this to remind everyone that a lot of us still do remember what Church is all about.

Our priest dealt with the Chilean church under Pinochet and how priest worked to bring justice to the poor and politically persecuted. Echoes how we could do the same in our society. I left feeling uplifted.

Thats what I love about the Episcopal Church.

No politics.

Some fundamentalist protestants (no offense to the wonderful ones out there) seem to think that it's a sin to vote for anyone but a republican.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

cheers~ :toast:

I'm sorry that you had to spend your holiday that way. The war against Christmas is being perpetrated by those who wish to turn the holiday into an occasion for divisiveness and hatred. I would not reward any church that's participating in this war by attending it.

they just had on the news how in Orange County (here in CA) someone vandalized a large menorah that was set up for a candle lighting. I would bet anything that whoever did was someone who was all churned up about how there is a 'war' against Christmas and took it out on people of another faith. :-(

why say it all week after midnight it's over. :crazy:

priest made more than several pointedly political remarks pertaining to gay marriage, womens issues, abortion, and yes - OTHER religions.

I was raised catholic ect. etc. but I am utterly turned off by their intolerance and cruelty. I refuse to have anything to do with them and I will never support them or their causes. Similar feelings for many evangelical pontificators and religious organizations.

Are churches being astroturfed? It has gone far beyond that. Churches have been given the green light to enter into politics to help support the conservative agenda and expand their base. The only reason that I can think of for churches to cave and support these evil bastards is that they think that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Well, I see this union as an odd mix of bedfellows, and I am sure that the truly devout and religious deeply regret the pact with the devil that their leaders have made.

. . .just to do it. And send a nice email to the minister explaining to him first that Fox News isn't REALLY a news program...and then that you don't believe Jesus chose the Republican Party as his official spokes organization. Then I would directly ask him if his "war on Christmas" sermon was about raising money for the church, or for political activism. Then I would explain that it's nice he celebrates Christmas, but he hasn't been appointed to speak for 140,000 soldiers in Iraq of varying religious beliefs - and that his sermon made you wonder why Christmas is an official national holiday when it was clear from his sermon that he believed "christians" should have special rights in our society.

- when you go to church on Christmas, you're going to hear about Christ and Christianity. I would think it understood that any church is going to want its flock to celebrate Christmas only - not Kwanzaa, not Hanukkah.

It sounds like the Priest was tying Cheney visiting the troops for Christmas into his sermon. I can't think of any Christian minister that is going to find fault with anyone celebrating Christmas with the troops.

As far as the IRS, the code involving church vs. state is with regard to Political Campaign Activity. The IRS code does not restrict the church from relating current events involving political leaders and doesn't restrict the church from approving or disapproving those events. Many churches have spoken out against the war in Iraq - should the IRS contact them? What about those times that Kerry and Edwards addressed congregations - wouldn't that be a conflict, too?

I just don't understand the big whoop here. My thought would be to not go to church if you don't wish to hear Christianity and its holidays promoted and are afraid that a current event that you don't agree with may be brought up.

He was claiming that in the USA there was no other holiday except Christmas that should be recognized. He was saying that Cheney, who is the vice-president of the United States, celebrated Christmas because that is the national holiday of this country.

With all due respect sir, don't you think that Jesus might be a little more angry about the fact that America is exploiting a holiday that is celebrated in his name for the purposes of selling stuff, than about people saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Chirstmas?

The bible definately does say something about a rich man entering the kingdom of heaven and accumulating large amounts of wealth. But I don't remember a passage about "Thou shalt say Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays".