My son says get ready to invade Iran

I spoke with my son just now(he's in Germany),and he said that they are briefing some of his friends about Iran.He also said they have stop-lossed his unit until August(they were to come home in March).I asked him about Syria,and he said "we are already there,mom...jacking with them at the border"His unit has to retrieve the wrecked and blown up vehicles from various places in Iraq,so he has seen a bit more than they are broadcasting.I am SO glad he was hurt,and is out of there.

the only good thing being your loved one is no longer in harms way.

So this thing is going "forward"...

:scared:

What are the maniacs in the WH thinking? How long before the sheeple wake up? Will we be able to stop this madness?

If it's them, they'll wake their sorry selves up very quick.
However, if it's the people this mis-admininstraition have deemed as terrorists are marching to the gas chambers, then the sheeple will sleep or worse actually help send us there.

orders. Just like nazi germany, it will start with a small minoity and spread. Hell the freepers are already talking about building work camps for the poor. Work first is a good example of things to come and who gets shipped out first. BTW, don't say never as the rich need workers, they can always get GW to enact a work premit for illegals and then the rich won't need american workers.

Those tax cuts aren't going to do them a lot of good in the ovens. You know that once the regime kicks it up to the next level they won't be so protective of gay Republicans. Not if a "kiss-in" (whatever that is) is already considered a "terraist threat".

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don't have to fight, and neither do their kids so what the fuck do they care?

Traitors. All traitors to not only our country but the human race.

I'm glad your son is in Germany. Hope he never has to go back.

They want and need a new "Cold War" to keep the big military industrial complex in biz. That's what they want. They profit from war and want to keep that profit in place for the future. Sick isn't it? I just can't imagine that they honestly believe they can win anything at all.

profits. :grr:

Insist that he talks to you about his experiences, the sooner he gets it all out the better for he. I'm just now 30 some years latter opening up, shoulda' done it much earlier.

one of his friends is being given a medical discharge for PTSD.He said"that could have been me six months ago<when he was hurt>"He told me about being airevac'd next to a guy who had been shot six times,and was going in and out of consciousness.My son felt very guilty about "only" wounding his leg.I have a feeling this will f*&k with his head for a long time.

It's not right that these sons and daughters brothers and sisters mothers and fathers to have to be there, to have to experience it. The criminal * needs to be locked up and then they need to throw away the dam key.

How can we restrain this misadministration before this all gets started?

Thank you for this. I think we need to be very vocal about this.

eom

the morale on my son's unit is in the shitter.They all recognize this as a political move,the mission's gone.They are all drinking heavily.It's not pretty.

I hope he stays safe, and comes handles it all well. I hate to think of what this BS war is doing to our troops. PTSD, depression, hopelessness, I wish there was something we could do.

Speculations over US attack against Iran

By Jürgen Gottschlich

12/23/05 "Der Spiegel" -- -- Are the USA planing a rocket attack against targets in Iran? In secret discussions Washington was preparing the Allies for appropriate air strikes in 2006, agencies disclosed to day. Especially in the NATO country Turkey, speculations about an attack against Iranian nuclear facilities are taking place.

Istanbul/Berlin - The News exploded like a Bomb in the tranquil prechristmas mood.:Washington was preparing close allies for air strikes against Iran. This was disseminated today by the German Depeschenservice in a text by the former "FAZ" editor - Head and Secret Service Expert Udo Ulfkotte - however substantial doubts on this matter are certainly justified.

As source given by the not undoubted journalist Ulfkotte "Western security circles" without naming specifics. According to his statements, CIA-Chief Porter Goss in the Turkish Capital Ankara asked M.P. Recep Tayyip Erdogan to support the air strikes against Iranian Nuclear and Military Installations especially with uninhibited exchange of secret information. At the present plan the attacks were planned for 2006.

In recent weeks The governments of Saudi-Arabia, Jordan, Oman and Pakistan have been informed about the implementations of military plans. The air strikes were described as "possible option" a specific point in time was however, not mentioned.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11373.htm

in the past few months, this isn't a surprise to anyone who's been paying attention.

All you have to do is take ANY bit of news that had iraq in it and swap out the q for the n and you have the same system of lies and bullshit that was used to invade iraq.

Thanks george.

snip

CIA Chief Gloss was now to have provided the Turkish Security Administration in Ankara with three information packages, one of which supposedly includes that Teheran cooperate with the terror organization Al-Qaida. A further transferred info pertains to the progress of the Iranian nuclear Armament, it was said. According to statements from German security agencies, in Ankara Goss assured the Turkish Government they would be informed a few hours before the possible Air Strike and to give Turkey already the green light for this particular day to attack depots of the separatist PKK on Iranian territory - a curious "Green Light" however, because the PKK does not maintain any military bases, but operates primarily in North Iraq.

snip

If US plans for attacks on Iranian nuclear facilities exist, or how detailed they are is hard to estimate. Last the American discovery annalist Seymour Hersh, reported about this in January 2005 in the "New Yorker" that secret US Commando Groups were active in marking military targets.

The Bush Government did not deny Hersh's report at that time. They only played it down: The article was full of "false statements" it was said in Washington. That the central issue in the report were false, was not disputed. Bush himself added explicitly, he didn't want to exclude the "War" option.

snip


However, the speculation on US attacks against Iran refers primarily to happenings in Turkey. Last week there was actually a mighty assembly of high ranking Security Personnel from the USA and from NATO in Ankara. Within a couple of days there was first the Chief of the FBI, then the Chief of the CIA and last the Secretary General Scheffer in Turkey. After her visit in Germany Coondoleezza Rize travelled to Turkey, too.

snip

But Erdogan and his military harbor the worst fear for the whole region, in case the USA would actually go against Iran. Western experts, too, consider the success of a military action against nuclear installations in Iran in no way guaranteed. Just the opposite: An attack would probably miss its aim to stop the nuclear program and provide Ahmadinedschad with even more supporters.

snip



This is NOT GOOD.

Considering *'s history of semantic cat-and mouse games with whether he had 'no Iraq war plans on my desk' in the spring/late summer 2002, these developments against Iran have the ring of inevitability about them.

Congress must not wait any longer to halt this. These warring neocons are driving our country into the ground, all to extend far into the future the bloody profits of their War Machine.

It's going to start raining shit again. More liberating of iraqis er I mean iranians going down soon.

also making "unannounced visits" to the ME in suspiciously the same time frame during the last 1-2 weeks....

Yes, this is going to happen. Just like we knew it would in Iraq, nearly a full year before March, 2003.

It's up to Congress to stop these people. We are rapidly getting to the point of no return.

So, moderate Republicans, what are you going to do? The rest of America is shouting, "Is your country and the world more important to you than enabling these monsters to destroy life? If you do not act to stop this insanity, the prognosis is grave for us all."

stomach to deal with this. Witness the whole spying issue; Bush admitted to circumventing and subverting the Constitution. Congress (as a body) had the responsibility and the incentive to stand up as a whole and denounce this. A resolution could have and should have been drafted immediately for censure, voted on with immediacy and this administration would have been reined in (temporarly at least). With the exception of Conyers putting forth a call to censure, and a hand full of other congress people denouncing the spying, few others have stepped forward on this.
This 'wait and see' attitude by the vast majority in congress is in fact their unwillingness to acknowledge that they are powerless. At this point, unless the military begins to act against bushes orders, cheney and bushes plans are going according to design. The media is bought and paid for, the congress is neutered, and the majority of the population are disabled by disbelief.

to operate the war machines will halt it.



Then, each group must do what they do best:

Congress: Cut off the additional war financing (especially to Rummy's computerized warfare toys at the Pentagon, AND Rummy's ability to shift large amounts of $$ around under the radar to fund his madness) and immediately begin impeachment hearings for the entire administration. Jack Abramoff can assist.

Generals: Immediately order ground troops, airmen and seamen to stand down from orders to attack Iran or any other country

American people: Continue sustained, noisy political pressure on this administration and Congress to act immediately. Demand paper and pen voting in 2006, hand-counted at the precinct and results telephoned in to the Elections Supervisor's Office.


This would be a good start.

May I add-an immediate announcement by congress that we are facing a constitutional emergency; that congress as a whole will undertake the absolute protection of our constitutional rights, up to and including censorship of Bush, Cheney, Rice, and Rumsfeld effective immediately. All current and future profits of Halliburton will be confiscated and applied to the war debt. Companies deploying more than 2% of their jobs overseas or offshore will be assessed taxes on each position not to exceed 150%, The acceptance of Boltons immediate resignation from the UN.
If this happens (including your list of change) before January 5, 2006...and it is indeed reasonable to expect immediate action on all of these points, I would be temporarily appeased. Anything short of all of our points being met will not do.

American thought and American politics will be largely at the mercy of those who operate these stations, for publicity is the most powerful weapon that can be wielded in a republic. And when such a weapon is placed in the hands of one person, or a single selfish group is permitted to either tacitly or otherwise acquire ownership or dominate these broadcasting stations throughout the country, then woe be to those who dare to differ with them. It will be impossible to compete with them in reaching the ears of the American people.

— Rep. Luther Johnson (D.-Texas), in the debate that preceded the Radio Act of 1927 (KPFA, 1/16/03)

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2053

your addition is noted and appreciated.

and slaughter the US troops - I think Murtha might be our man on this.

What arrogance, What disdain for life, What wholesale cruelty.

From Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.: "Don't let anybody make you think God chose America as his divine messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with justice and it seems I can hear God saying to America "you are too arrogant, and if you don't change your ways, I will rise up and break the backbone of your power, and I will place it in the hands of a nation that doesn't even know my name. Be still and know that I'm God. Men will beat their swords into plowshafts and their spears into pruning hooks, and nations shall not rise up against nations, neither shall they study war anymore." I don't know about you, I ain't going to study war anymore."

...will authorize for use against Iran.

Remember, Iran is about 2.5 times the size of Iraq, and has 3 times the population. Our forces in Iraq are having MAJOR difficulties dealing with a population of 20,000,000.

Think about what they've already stated publicly about the preemptive use of nuclear weapons.

Then think about the fact that Turkey has been recently told that the U. S. will begin air operations against Iran and Syria very soon.

As far as the reduction of the U. S. military headcount in Iraq, don't forget that we're "reducing" those forces by the 20,000 the NeoCons sent to Iraq for "pre-election security". Don't forget that we've also pulled about 40,000 troops out of Europe, and most of the troops out of South Korea. That's about 70,000 to 80,000 troops that are supposed to be rotated back to the States....do you think they'll be in the States for very long?

The US military is not prepared for any sort of engagement against Iran. The Iranians have the capability of striking back against US and Israeli targets in the region, including the US regional command center in Qatar and targets throughout Iraq. Tehran can place 17 million men in uniform - there's no way we're getting into a land war with Iran.

Not a single US ally would get involved in this, except Israel.

This is, I believe, a propaganda offensive in advance of some sort of shakeup in the deployment of U.S. forces in the region -- sabre rattling to cover our withdrawal from Iraq.

has been my interpretation so far.

Based on the failure of direct bluster and fume tactics,
and the failure of "Shock and Awe" in Iraq.

Hegemony is based on the expectation of being obeyed.
When the satrapies refuse to obey, and one has not the
means to punish them directly, what is left but various
forms of dramatic exercise? The entire Iraq war was, in
part, a dramatic exercise intended to spread terror among
the satrapies of the empire, and that having failed, there
is nothing left but more empty threats, or armageddon.

Stay tuned.

of the country that has swallowed up our armed forces, a nation that hasn't been beaten down by military defeat, air strikes, and sanctions as has Iraq, more than twice the population, and that population is far more ethnically homogeneous. Toss in what is said above about Syria. Any more good news?
Does anyone need to understand why the military brass used Murtha to sound the alarm? The administration want to get our armed forces in over their heads. The worse the situation, the more they and the media can scare the sheep into begging for a de jure dictatorship.

How in the hell are they going to.... Wrong question.

The real question is, how can we immediately impound this administration?

Persian gulf, putting our Iraq forces at a great disadvantage.

cloud?

doctrine governing the use of nukes told me that they want zap someone (nonwhite). The majority of this country are sick of Bush & co. but the minute we use a nuke in an illegal war (i.e. open ourselves up for ANY kind of retaliation) the junta will have a solid majority of scared rabbits willing to listen to anything.
And it's our fault. It's our fault we're not sufficiently frightened of terrorists. It's our fault for insisting we live in a nation of laws. We must pay for not loving "freedom" enough.

the bushco-boobs obviously don't realize that the Iranians are the "original" Caucasians! They are not Semitic or ethnic Arabs, and in fact the term is an insult (along with "camel driver").

have we sunk so low? I think not.

besides I have lived in Iran. They are not Semitic.

What was the quote about not learning from history...?:)

unfolding around him. Will the next air strikes be broadcast a la Shock and Awe or will we find out about them via Al Jazeera? :-(

Best wishes to your son's recuperation and well being.

It was campaign strategy advice - but I see it was just crazy enough for the BFEE to follow.

sucking.

Couldn't remember his last name, but I got the right Dick.

deserve to live without bombing injuries, torture, and looting.

The leaders of these countries who are the ones to conspire and demand or acquiese can all go devour themselves.

The people of these countries are just as good as we are. They are human beings.

This so-called war atrocity is not was war, it is an invasion just as it was in Iraq. This is an invasion for the corporate-military-religious-federalist-fascist leaders and it is to be blamed on everyone - relgious radical to Presidenial aide who support the cabal for profit or benefit and control.

I have said so for the first time over a year ago : if need be, we will come and liberate you.

Only reciprocating.

You know, where Hadley has been put in.

Really, really scary. I think I need to get to our press asap.

did you ever think you would be so glad your son was hurt, or ever imagine you would use these words. i certainly understand and i am so glad too, for him. my friends son was hurt too, and i said the same thing. they pieced him together well enough he is leaving soon to go back adn try this again.

thank you for your post

testament to the devastation of this war.There are not enough orthopedic surgeons to handle the traumatic amputations and debilitating injuries,and the more mundane<and thankfully stable>injuries.my son';s surgery has been bumped 6 times due to influx of injured wounded.he is scheduled for January 4th.God help those poor kids.

by Jan. 4th. I know that as hs mother, you have been stressed out and worried. Thank God, that at least your child is out of the war zone. I think of Binka's son, Ben, the same way...sad that they were wounded, glad that they are out of battle.

Every troop serving is someone's loved one. Every innocent Iraqi killed or wounded is someone's loved one. The treasonous bastards who started this war, yet refuse to pay for it, are the ones to blame. That is the difference between them and us...we would not start something we wouldn't be willing to be personally involved in. They will ONLY demand sacrifices of other, never themselves.

How sad is it when a mom has to be happy her son was hurt? At least he's out of there.

LH

and there is talk of some kind of partnership... How does Bushie and his strong arms like that little tidbit? Bwahahahahahaha...

It seems like a perfect solution..... put the facility just over the border....

With a top Russian politician stating last week that if the U.S. invades Syria, Russia would support Syria. I remember a year or so ago, Iran and Syria have some type of agreement to come to each others aid should either be attacked.

So... this little war that wasn't supposed to last six months... is looking like 6 years or more....

w8liftinglady thanks for your post and my prayers go out to your son with his recovery.


:patriot:

was hurt? :(

Can they still make him go back when he's better? :( :( :(

which he plans to drag out.I pray they won't send him back.They are making thse kids do a lot of things we don't realize.I mean,why should a freaking mechanic get PTSD.He won't tell me the other things he's had to do.

Maybe you can find a good counselor who will say he isn't fit for duty. :shrug: :(

http://panicdisorder.about.com/b/a/099864.htm
Nearly One-Fifth of Soldiers in Iraq May Develop PTSD

I've been diagnosed with PTSD for other reasons. Obviously, I haven't been in a literal war zone.

I hope your kid can put this behind him. I hope you can find a counselor. :( I am having a hard time finding one I can relate to. Psychiatrists are almost impossible to find. A good one is more rare than hens' teeth. Counselors are easier to find, but finding the right one is tough. I think I'm about to fire my second one this year. :( It's not that I don't like them. It's just I feel they don't "get it."

a psychiatrist and psychologist.I have seen drugs save peoples' mental health...but not without the counseling.Bless you,love-I hope you can find peace.

I have had some luck with the Alpha-Stim SCS. It relieves anxiety and depression. It's expensive, but I really believe it has helped me.

Also, my aunt is a therapist and she's had a lot of luck treating PTSD with EMDR--Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing. My (limited) understanding is that it works best with helping people stop revisiting traumatic events etc, not with treating generalized depression. But there is going to be a LOT of PTSD because of this war, so I hope this information gets out and gets used.

"they don't "get it." makes sense of what I read was most helpful to military members with PTSD. Less one on one counseling then larger support groups. The others who DO "get it" must be what helps so much.

If your own war was more private it might be harder to find such a group, not such a shared experience.

As bad as we feel for those who are physically injured what stays on my mind is other wounds. Those with traumatic brain injury who can't remember and those with PTSD who can't forget.

TBI will need intensive rehab and long term support but are forever changed and might not even be themselves again or even self supporting. It has increased over past wars because the survival rate is higher after serious injuries.

And you know what PTSD can be like. Not a quick "getting over it". The person can look OK and function OK often and talk just fine. Treatment might not seem as urgent. It is.

These are the "wounds" that worry me.

of US soldiers in Gulf War I suffer disability....read this a bit ago on DU; is this number accurate?????

from Veterans Affairs. Hartmann said it was because Gulf War Syndrome is due to Depleted Uranium and the shit is about to hit the fan about this.

I pray it is so -- let the shit fly --

They believe he is not being agressive enough.

There's a thread about it in I/P:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x108835

And for those who fear venturing into the wild world of I/P, here's a snip:



http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3189709,00.html

This stuff is really scary. My best wishes for your son, w8liftinglady.

This is empty rhetoric. The neocons are no longer driving policy at the Pentagon - they're going to jail.

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Iraq has drained the military of manpower.

Only if Iraq ends will an invasion of Iran happen IMO. Iran has a real military, its no Iraq . They would not be an easy target.

And knock over the Government. They don't care about tomorrow or the day after, because they won't have to deal with it.

They wouldn't mind throwing in on Iran or any of the other "Axis" powers. Anyone who isn't conveniently handing over resources is a target. They've already started on Africa. Just wait until it opens up there.

"Bush* and what Army?" Unless he's stupid enough to start the long-discussed Draft...but that would be political suicide because then, even the Repugs would call for Impeachment to keep their kids safe from harm.

+ NUKES (just in case)



peace

and that fact should scare the crap out
of everyone on the planet.
They are going to get us all killed and
they don't care.
I was talking to my friend about it all
the other night and we concur that the
Katrina fiasco is the blueprint for
how our so called government officials
will look after us if we are attacked, and
if they attack Iran, the people of this country most certainly
will be the victims of retaliation.
The BFEE knows and they don't care what
happens to us as a result of their actions.

At this point Philip Giraldi's report of
Cheney's special air force task team
REALLY scares the hell out of me.

Do you recall that article?
In short, Cheney has instructed the
air force to prepare for an immediate attack
on Iran should another attack occur here.
I'd say we are all in grave danger if that
is his plan.
As in MIHOP.
BHN

they already have them there, I believe. There was a story in the college newspaper where I live a few weeks back - a veteran was interviewed and he talked about seeing the most amazing weapons stockpiled in Iraq. They have been staging this and they can launch the missiles without needing manpower. The problem is what will happen next - I believe that Iranian troops will flood into Iraq (with the blessing of the Iraqis) and that the Iranian troops will slaughter US troops. * probably thinks that they can paralyze the Iranians by pointing rockets at every government building, mosque, and school in Iran and ordering them not to move their troops - under threat of nuclear attack (you remember those "new more usable mini-nuclear weapons" * wanted?). I don't think it will work. The possible outcomes, throughout the world, are a nightmare.

a ground invasion of Iran is not possible.

A missile attack is. Personally, I expected the Israelis to be the ones to pull the trigger with us helping them logistically.

Didn't the European powers tell us about 3-4 years ago that they would negotiate with Iran so they wouldn't get nukes? Is that effort still on-going?

and as Miller would say, everyone knows, but how is it the national subconscious is sliding deaf into all this anyway? Not even bothering to court the violated virgin of popular and Congressional "permission"? Not worrying about "world opinion"? Not concerned with another botched horror show of greater magnitude ahead?

At minimum, he'll set them back the forty years they worked to become the majority.

He's insane. And he's surrounded by psychopaths, as Vonnegut says. As many have said.

The extremely wealthy (bushes base, per bush) are protected. By the time republicans or democrats step up on this, it will be a done deal. Iran nuked, and full fledge publically ecknowledged oil wars.
It's all about the money, and joe and jane six pack don't have enough for bush to care about them as a party.

really unpleasant surprise.

I agree with your assessment of the bigger picture.

Armageddon Bush might have his bluff called on the nuke waving but it will largely be in secret. Smirk might then think he has bargained his way into some kind of permission for conventional bombing which must include the dubious task of taking out the Iranian leadership. And all this will happen ensuring death and disaster before anyone in the US is allowed to wake up in the morning.

We might be ignoring the one thing that never really happened before Iraq, what with its UN show and the WMD scam, a bloody pretext of enough proportion to mask a nuclear response. A vastly found out and unpopular Bush might think he needs another angle and it is not being discussed. Because another attack on our soil might eventually turn against him, the timing and place should be exquisitely coincidental. Or he might just shrug, do what he wants, and trust to his embedded cronies.

Iran. * has screwed up the world oil market by invading Iraq and making a mess of it. If * invades Iran, that will mean two large oil markets a mess. The entire rest of the world - except Israel - will be against us.

Iran could wipe out most of our armed forces with a couple of bombs in Iraq. Nice of Georgie to put all his eggs in one basket close by.

If this turns into a nuclear war, there goes all that oil. I would be the rest of the world would shut us off.

And congress is doing what?

China because we would put ourselves that much further into debt, and degrade our force readiness and morale. Russia and the Saudis would also be the big winners because they are the largest oil exporters, and a war would double the value of their reserves.

If BushCo really pushes this, they will be acting against American interests. I wouldn't rule out a coup to remove the Administration.

None of this is going to happen, of course.

He is a baby, not much older than my
daughter I would imagine. (she just turned 19)
I can't imagine her over there- they would
have to kill me to get to her.
I told a recruiter who asked about her
in a phone call that there was no
way in hell I would allow her
to serve this country for the current administration.

I am so glad he is out of there too.
God damn the people who sent the
the chidren of this country to this
illegal war.
Damn them to hell.
BHN

MIHOP?-Oh Yeah,there is no doubt in my mind....

Now what false flag operation will they pull to justify this action???

Fuckin canned foods & ammo folks...

That is the really scary part- it will have to be
pretty severe to justify Cheney's plan to
use nukes on Iran.
I am really quite nauseous just thinking
about it, because it is inevitable seeing as they
are hell bent on attacking yet another country.
I've never owned a gun, but I see your point.
Especially witnessing how our
government took care of the Katrina victims.
Disgusting.
BHN

And the worst part is, at least 30% of Americans can't wait for them to do it

Our government will need a reason.
We be the sheep in that slaughter.
BHN

It's obvious we don't have the troops to pull this off.

If this is true, why????? Are they that incompetent? Do they simply want perpetual war? Do they want to incite a terrorist attack so they can reinstate the draft?

WHY????

The Real Reasons Why Iran is the Next Target: The Emerging Euro-denominated International Oil Marker
by William Clark



http://www.energybulletin.net/2913.html

The Meridian Report
A Global Perspective on Energy
www.themarkettraders.com

December 10th, 2005

If one stops for a moment to reflect on the use of weaponry over the course of history, we see that as a civilization we have indeed made tremendous strides. From hand to hand combat with sticks and stones we moved into bows and arrows. The invention of gunpowder then heralded yet another new age. Since black powder muskets in the Civil War timeframe, we have now engineered and refined our way to high velocity precision rifles. Along the way, advances in aeronautics gave us the ability to shoot at our foes from high above the ground. Advances in science then gave us the ability to exploit the power inherent in the atom. Once combined with aeronautics, we were able to drop atomic bombs from an overhead aircraft not onto an individual below but onto an entire city below. Advances in computer controlled guidance systems now see us launching so called “smart” bombs from great distances using stealth type flying crafts. But, the best is yet to come. We are about to see a radical new type of weapon unveiled on the global stage. This weapon will not rely on explosive technology or flying aircraft. This weapon will not kill enemy troops. This weapon will not see one army invading the territory of another. No, instead this weapon will simply rely on supply and demand, the basic concepts that underpin Economics 101. This new weapon will be a financial weapon. In fact this weapon will be so powerful it will be able to inflict serious harm on the financial stability of an entire adversarial nation. This weapon is the BOURSE. That’s right – the BOURSE. The dictionary defines BOURSE as follows:

BOURSE: a word of French origin meaning a stock exchange for securities trading.

http://www.321energy.com/editorials/meridian/meridian121005.html

Petrodollar Warfare: Dollars, Euros and the Upcoming Iranian Oil Bourse
by William R. Clark
(Friday August 05 2005)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"A successful Iranian bourse will solidify the petroeuro as an alternative oil transaction currency, and thereby end the petrodollar's hegemonic status as the monopoly oil currency. Therefore, a graduated approach is needed to avoid precipitous U.S. economic dislocations."

http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/17450

Reuters News


By Amir Paivar

Sunday, April 24, 2005

Iran allows foreigners to buy 10 pct of bourse firms.






TEHRAN, April 24 (Reuters) - Foreigners will be able to buy directly up to 10 percent of companies listed on the Tehran stock exchange, waiving complex case-by-case permits required in the past, a senior bourse official said on Sunday.

Tehran's fast-growing bourse lists 422 companies valued at $46 billion, meaning the new directive has opened up $4.6 billion worth of assets to foreign investors.

"Foreign entities can buy up to 10 percent of shares of the listed companies in the bourse," Ali Sanginian, a senior official at Tehran Stock Exchange who has been designing the reform, told Reuters.

http://www.atiehbahar.com/InTheNews/bourse.htm


it's all about the oil and our economy, especially if china and europe jump on board

Your post shows the complexity of this issue of war.

I found the articles to be quite informative.

I realized many years ago that I was not smart enough to know the answers to all the questions that filled my mind. I think this war is the same way with me. Not only because of the worldwide economic impact it is having on so many different countries... but there has been so much misleading information from those that took us into war.

The one thing I do know... I was against this war right from the beginning... I didn't have to know all the reasons. My heart told me. My heart told me * was not to be trusted. So far my heart has been one hundred percent correct.

I hope you continue to help keeping everyone informed....:toast:

according to what I have read, the bourse is set to open on or right after the Persian new year, Nou Rooz, on March 20 (vernal equinox). So that is our time frame. And now for Shakespeare: Beware the Ides of March...

our anniversary is on the 20th and my birthday is the 19th. When they started bombing Iraq it was on my birthday (US time), we were at a pizza parlor and I just walked out and started crying.

looks like I may get a crappy gift again this year. :cry:

Cheney has been meeting with air force about
massive air strikes and the use of nukes.
We are so fucked.
BHN

was proposed and approved this summer, at Cheneys initiation.

It is from The American Conservative (Philip Giraldi)
August 1, 2005.
Unfuckingbelievable...
BHN

scared me beyond comprehension then.
Another poster (forgive me....memory is shot right now) posted an incredible thread about how all of this is going to plan, including all of the scandals and the actual subversion of the constitution by the current regime. That none of this is an accident.
I agree.

The timing.
It's all about the timing.
And I am truly afraid for everyone.
BHN

"Deep Background

In Washington it is hardly a secret that the same people in and around the administration who brought you Iraq are preparing to do the same for Iran. The Pentagon, acting under instructions from Vice President Dick Cheney’s office, has tasked the United States Strategic Command (STRATCOM) with drawing up a contingency plan to be employed in response to another 9/11-type terrorist attack on the United States. The plan includes a large-scale air assault on Iran employing both conventional and tactical nuclear weapons. Within Iran there are more than 450 major strategic targets, including numerous suspected nuclear-weapons-program development sites. Many of the targets are hardened or are deep underground and could not be taken out by conventional weapons, hence the nuclear option. As in the case of Iraq, the response is not conditional on Iran actually being involved in the act of terrorism directed against the United States. Several senior Air Force officers involved in the planning are reportedly appalled at the implications of what they are doing—that Iran is being set up for an unprovoked nuclear attack—but no one is prepared to damage his career by posing any objections."

http://www.amconmag.com/2005_08_01/article3.html

This article scares me to death.
If I lived in Iran, I would be leaving as in RIGHT NOW.
BHN

:cry:

Sweet Jesus, I hope you're wrong. :( I'll look at the article.

requests@daftar.org

Sir,

I am a middle-aged father of 3. My son is 20 and while there is no draft currently in effect in the US, I fear that that may no longer bethe case soon. War and talk of fiercer war pervades the news, internet and mouths of strangers lately. I came upon this recently in a blog site that I monitor. I hope that it is not true.

"Deep Background

In Washington it is hardly a secret that the same people in and around the administration who brought you Iraq are preparing to do the same for Iran. The Pentagon, acting under instructions from Vice President Dick Cheney’s office, has tasked the United States Strategic Command (STRATCOM) with drawing up a contingency plan to be employed in response to another 9/11-type terrorist attack on the United States. The plan includes a large-scale air assault on Iran employing both conventional and tactical nuclear weapons. Within Iran there are more than 450 major strategic targets, including numerous suspected nuclear-weapons-program development sites. Many of the targets are hardened or are deep underground and could not be taken out by conventional weapons, hence the nuclear option. As in the case of Iraq, the response is not conditional on Iran actually being involved in the act of terrorism directed against the United States. Several senior Air Force officers involved in the planning are reportedly appalled at the implications of what they are doing—that Iran is being set up for an unprovoked nuclear attack—but no one is prepared to damage his career by posing any objections."

http://www.amconmag.com/2005_08_01/article3.html

This article scares me to death.
If I lived in Iran, I would be leaving as in RIGHT NOW.

I did not go to the web site however, I can imagine that the wording is similar to what is posted. We in the US have a mentally unstable man at the helm. Forces have been at work even prior to his election as President 5 years ago. I want the war in Iraq to end. I do not want another war to begin, either with your country, or any other. I hope someone with authority, and a sense of loyalty to humanity in general, will bring about a peaceful end to this quagmire that the US is in.

Steve Kempf

greiner3@hotmail.com

Since this will undoubtedly will come to the attention of the US spies, I have no problem with using my real name and leaving it intact. I wrote it on the spur of the moment, and even these few moments later it seems juvenile. Se la vie.

no one is saying anything for fear of risking their career?

nice bunch of snivelling brown nosed jobsworths you have there

i wonder what career options will be available to them once the planet has been blown to smithereens and radiation reigns supreme?

chief mutant responsible for spying on lesser mutants?

it's now gone beyond a joke america, sort these pricks out before you force another nation to spank them across their arse

what you gonna do? use a nuke on 1 man?

iran doesnt have nuclear capabilities, it is a bluff

the same as Iraq's bluff on WMD

it's just convenient for america to believe it right now, their agenda matches iraels perfectly, one and the same

most of those people you look to aren't fighting your corner america, they have pledged allegiance to a different flag

your all being used, and only some of you can see it

bombing from the skies.

Then we'll get involved .

But I really dont see how we can do much because our military is simply threadbare despite all the hundreds of billions were giving them. Most of that money is going to security and Bushs Halliburton.

Israel's War Deadline:
Iran in the Crosshairs

By JAMES PETRAS

Never has an imminent war been so loudly and publicly advertised as Israel's forthcoming military attack against Iran. When the Israeli Military Chief of Staff, Daniel Halutz, was asked how far Israel was ready to go to stop Iran's nuclear energy program, he said "Two thousand kilometers" the distance of an air assault.
More specifically Israeli military sources reveal that Israel's current and probably next Prime Minister Ariel Sharon ordered Israel's armed forces to prepare for air strikes on uranium enrichment sites in Iran According to the London Times the order to prepare for attack went through the Israeli defense ministry to the Chief of Staff. During the first week in December, "sources inside the special forces command confirmed that 'G' readiness the highest state for an operation was announced" (Times, December 11, 2005).

On December 9, Israeli Minister of Defense, Shaul Mofaz, affirmed that in view of Teheran's nuclear plans, Tel Aviv should "not count on diplomatic negotiations but prepare other solutions". In early December, Ahron Zoevi Farkash, the Israeli military intelligence chief told the Israeli parliament (Knesset) that "if by the end of March, the international community is unable to refer the Iranian issue to the United Nations Security Council, then we can say that the international effort has run its course".

<snip>

Even the pro-Labor newspaper, Haaretz, while disagreeing with the time and place of Netanyahu's pronouncements, agreed with its substance. Haaretz criticized "(those who) publicly recommend an Israeli military option" because it "presents Israel as pushing (via powerful pro-Israel organizations in the US) the United States into a major war." However, Haaretz adds "Israel must go about making its preparations quietly and securely not at election rallies." (Haaretz, December 6, 2005). Haaretz's position, like that of the Labor Party, is that Israel not advocate war against Iran before multi-lateral negotiations are over and the International Atomic Energy Agency makes a decision.

Israeli public opinion apparently does not share the political elite's plans for a military strike against Iran's nuclear program. A survey in the Israeli newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth, reported by Reuters (December 16, 2005) shows that 58 per cent of the Israelis polled believed the dispute over Iran's nuclear program should be handled diplomatically while only 36 per cent said its reactors should be destroyed in a military strike.
All top Israeli officials have pronounced the end of March, 2006, as the deadline for launching a military assault on Iran. The thinking behind this date is to heighten the pressure on the US to force the sanctions issue in the Security Council. The tactic is to blackmail Washington with the "war or else" threat, into pressuring Europe (namely Great Britain, France, Germany and Russia) into approving sanctions. Israel knows that its acts of war will endanger thousands of American soldiers in Iraq, and it knows that Washington (and Europe) cannot afford a third war at this time.

more...
http://www.counterpunch.org/petras12242005.html

him : "they are all re-upping "
me: "why?"
Him:"because they know they have nothing to go home to-no jobs,no insurance,can't afford to live.I mean-they get asked what their job skills are-"well,I blow shit up" "OK,you can stock shelves for 5.50 an hour"
Me-"what about the GI BIll"
him-"mom,get real-these guys have families-how can they support a family on the GI Bill?"



now it all makes sense to me.

financial reasons. He said, "No one would sign up for the money that they're making." He has no clue.

I don't doubt the true patriotism of the people in the military. But, I think lots of them signed up because it's their only chance for a college education.

The MSM are so filthy rich they cannot in any way relate to the average worker.

want no part of this shennanigans

that's quite clear

these people are not going to listen anymore, that's quite clear, so the time has come to appeal to the better instincts of the people flying the planes/firing the artillery? .... yes?

well they saw that coming too ...

drone sentient aircraft are now ready to remotely do their bombing raids

they need no conscience to persuade anymore

im gonna build a rocket and goto mars i think, maybe further ...

Out here in the oil patch we're starving for workers, both skilled and unskilled.

Companies are holding job fairs hundreds of miles away to lure workers.

Recently a group of companies held a job fair at Fort Hood to sign up the soldiers who were soon to be leaving the army. If you are currently unemployed, head for West Texas. We are starved for workers here.

Her husband desperately wanted out of the military, but how do you look for a job when you are in Iraq? She said they have children and cannot live without his salary, and have no cushion to allow him to risk being unemployed while looking for a job. This soldier re-upped.

I hope your son is able to come home, w8liftinglady. It seems like it has been a long time since he was wounded. I guess it's good (from the standpoint of not being sent back to Iraq) that he has had to wait so long for his surgery. I'll keep him in my thoughts and prayers.

need right now is to deflect from the spying, investigations, and impeachment talk. They have had a plan for Iran in their pocket for years. Everytime we've heard about it whe've heard 'nuclear'.

Answer: Martial law. Path: Bomb Iran with nuclear bombs. Threaten us with nuclear retaliation (by whom doesn't matter). Take away ALL rights. Yes, attention will be deflected and they will have their argument against the accusations against them. Who cares if they don't pass the mustard test as far as justifying an attack on Iran.

Did Congress already sanction this? If yes, by Committee or full house?

Bolton will pave the path at the UN?

Rice will pave the path around the world?

Rumsfeld will not retire?

Dick will be in charge once again?

George will be found reading My Pet Elephant to some kids?

This is MIHOP-Iran.

If the leaders of the world don't speak up immediately then we know that all the leaders are in on this.

Additionally, they don't want to have it on their record that they conducted a failed boots on the ground campaign. They, the truly delusional PNAC, think that they will wipe out their failure with a successful air strike?

What way does the wind blow over there - will the radiation spread to surrounding embassies and bases?

Iraqi sand fly cancer will not be a subject we'll be talking about.

Which city will be MIHOPed as part of their campaign.

Remember, when we knew that an attack was coming on Iraq? Is this one worse or not?

Isn't Iran suppoed to be 9 to 10 years away from having a nuclear bomb? Has PNAC and Dick moved that date up to 9 to 10 months? Is that what we are gong to hear.

Just what we need right now - more lies.

I hope if they try to prepare the American people for this, both the people and the press will rise up and stop it.

They only care about missing blonds.

Will congress approve a war.....people are already upset about Iraq, doesn't make any sense.

they are once again going to use 'war' as the mid-term campaign tactic. Why not, it worked once before, right? (with a little Diebolding thrown in for good measure)

We keep believing that congress, the public, even the SC will step in and slap cheney and bushes wrist. And we are constantly surprised when it doesn't happen:
The outting of a CIA agent
Spying on US citizens and political rivals without court approval
the lack of WMD in Iraq
to name a few
And nothing is done to stop them. Even congress is labelled as ineffective now due to their lack of oversight of this president. And still, nothing is done. Congress hasn't the will to stop the WH.
Bush neither wants nor cares for congresses approval. It will simply happen and if the public is made aware it will be after the fact. Congress will whine for a bit and members will toss out the big C or I word, but again, the damage will have been done.

Dec. 19 blog at www.securingAmerica.com which Clark participated in.

I spoke with my son in Afghanistan yesterday and was quite disturbed by some of the things that he told me about "rampant rumors" and redeployment of U.S. forces that are occurring in that country.
Do you think that Bush is gearing up to attack Iran, which we have virtually surrounded?

Posted by Wes Clark on December 19, 2005 - 6:26pm.
There were rumors in the Mideast about something in March... I put that as a relatively low probability thus far....don't really know about the redeployments, except to suggest that the NATO forces are trying now to move throughout the country,

see my comment-#93. Nou Rooz is the Persian New Year and occurs with the vernal equinox. It would be logical to open a new venture right after the new year, theirs being March 20. (It is always amusing to follow a solar calendar for one's new year, and for everything else to follow the Islamic lunar calendar.)

No sane military officer is going to want to invade Iran when the U.S. is already bogged down in Afghanistan and Iraq.

In 1939, Hitler's generals advised him against invading Poland. They told him that while Germany would win in the beginning, eventually, all of Europe and eventually the Russians and Americans would join forces, and Germany would be utterly defeated.

Of course, they were right. But when Hitler insisted, they regretfully (and regrettably) went along with his orders, since it would have been insubordination to do otherwise. (Information from a book I read back in the 1970s called German Resistance to Hitler, which also revealed that by September 1939, there were already thousands in prison for anti-Nazi activities, not as many as there should have been, of course, but not an insignificant number, either. Far too many people went along with Hitler, but not everyone did.)

eom

..that they just announced won't be going to Iraq.

I told my ESSO, "Just what are they leaving that 1 batallion in Kuwait for? Iran? Syria?"

They seem to be pretty alerted.

Yes, definitely the kind of thing that would pre-empt an attack on Iran.

As they talk of moving troops from Iraq...

They are incapable of changing direction.

I think you are correct, and it is taking far too long for those who should oppose to realize this.

The overstretched military would need to have a draft to pull this off...

Then again, I'll never underestimate the stupidity of these PNAC Neocons...

none of us are going to escape this mess...

:nuke:

and China isn't going to sit back and watch either...

This administration is insane!!! I really doubt that 30% of Americans want to see their children suffer. I can't believe 30% are jim jones cultists. I wonder what's really going on behind the scenes with Putin and Bush--after all, Bush looked into Putin's eyes, they're brothers don't you know. China practically owns us economically. If they start WWIII, I wouldn't want to be on this planet anyway, especially with cold blooded, unethical megalomaniacs wanting to rule the world. It's not worth trading my soul to survive as a mindless, soulless zombie.

would the rest of the middle eastern countries stand by? could they trust this administration? Would they be next? it seems it would be in their best interest to throw in their lot with Iran-how could they trust the PNACers? doesn't the PNAC goal also include Egypt? Or is that some other weird group's goal to conquer the ME? If the governments of other ME countries go along with Bush, their citizens might not. And, if this admin. uses nukes wouldn't they expose Israelis' or doesn't the Israeli government care about their people?

I believe the scenario described in Ezekiel 38-39 is very possible, should Chimp attack Iran. The involvement of Israel in the planning and execution of such an event is obvious. And it's likely that any attack on Iran will piss off the Russians.

The prophetic scenario (to summarize) is that a "great nation from the distant North" will lead a coalition of nations to march against Israel. Persia (Iran), Libya, and Ethiopia are mentioned specifically as nations that will be part of this coalition, and the historic "Ethiopia" covered a much larger area than the present day country (Sudan, etc.)

Somewhere in this prophetic scenario, there's a part where the "King of the East" is disturbed by the events taking place and dispatches an army of 1 million who march up the dried up bed of the Euphrates river. Obviously, China is the only country who could realistically meet that description.

And while it might be easy (especially for our non-believing friends) to dismiss this out of hand as fiction, it's kinda funny how such a situation would have looked entirely improbable even in the 1990's, but now seems to fit the current conditions just horribly too well.

Or maybe I'm just hungover from too much Christmas junk food....

maybe some should read the texts in the Dead Sea Scrolls or texts from Nag Hamadi. Scrolls that are as old as what is written in that little black book. This artificially created scenario is man created, not God created. This PNAC cabal is using the Armagedden crowd for power. Using them!!!! The book of war in the dead sea scrolls shows that for the jews, Roman occupation was an end to their way of life for them. The so-called "end of the world" may have different perceptions to people. If you lose your country, your way of life or a catastrophe that effects your part of the world, that would be the end of the world--your world. And if I was a fundamentalist, I might want to think about those meetings at Bohemian Grove every year-burning a human effigy to the owl idol. Wearing hooded capes and doing weird ceremonies. Maybe I would think, hmmm, this might be the anti-Christ.

I hear you.
BHN

Maybe one of you who knows more about this than I do can help me with this question.

This argument has been voiced more than a year ago by Mike Ruppert and others familiar with energy consumption: Central European EU countries, most notably Germany, cannot let the U.S. take over Iran because they cannot afford to let us control that Iranian oil supply. If EU oil prices double or triple, as they inevitably will under our control just like they have risen in the U.S. under Shrub, one is without question looking at a serious recession in that part of the world, and potentially destabilizing disruptions in transportation and other key industries.

China, I believe, has also started importing increasing amounts of energy from Iran as well. This is not good.

In other words, if the EU can't talk the U.S. out of going after Iran in advance, one has a possible WWIII nightmare scenario, with a divided NATO, and China siding with Germany against the U.S. No sane American administration would strike against Iran under these circumstances because Germany and China will not tolerate our actions and will strike back at the U.S. if their oil supplies are threatened.

'Stans that will probably side with Iran. The rest of the middle east MAY participate with Iran but that is not a sure bet as Iran is Persian, not Arab majority and closer to Pakistan India and China in its allegiances. As well, the religious factors;
The Saudi royal family has had a hard time keeping their religous extremist in line. They do not want a newly emboldened religous leader from Iran influencing their already rumbling masses. If Isreal decides to initiate action against Iran, the Saudis have no choice but to stand with Iran, only to show their masses that they are not buckling to Isreal. If the US initiates a strike, the saudis can ride the fence for a bit and see which side will be better equiped to help them keep their population in tow.
Europe also does not want this in their backyard. This is much closer and costlier to them than to the US...until March, when oil has the potential to be traded in the Euro, then Europe has the financial incentive to tell the US to go spin.

:sarcasm:

to pull the troops from Iaq? They fucked it up beyond all repair, it's time to destroy ANOTHER M.E. country.

Glad your son is OUTTA there.

"I know not what weapons world war 3 will be fought with, but world war 4 will be fought with sticks and stones" - Albert Einstein...

Does anyone know where I can take my 20 YO son when the draft comes?

We will be fleeing South.

and are building a house. Won't be ready until next Christmas--we just hope that's soon enough!

If they do not disobey insane orders, we cannot stop it.

And I think that in insane times, deserting is an act of honorable civil disobedience!

And I think that in insane times, deserting is an act of honorable civil disobedience!

To the tune of sign up bonuses of 150 grand and up for officers, 8K and up for others.
They'll get some mileage out of that...but....the draft is inevitable.

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War fucking sucks, go back and read Washington's Farewell address instead of the NeoCon playbook.

I look forward to watching the news reports of your exploits in Iran.

My BIL (who is now thankfully OUT, after a year Stop lossed) started getting Iran briefings in 2003.

It's coming, no doubt. (Dammit, George! You can't start any more wars until you finish the ones you've started!)

I'm sorry he was hurt, but I am very glad he's out of harm's way.