declining church attendance

yesterday there was this thread regarding the religiosity of americans.

and i stated that church attendance is on the decline in spite of people claiming to have strong religous beliefs.

someone asked for links to that info

and here's some of what i found.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_rate.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2004-11-07-church-main_x.htm

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=163

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/rel_chu_att

http://www.umich.edu/news/?Releases/2000/Jan00/r011100

http://theologica.blogspot.com/2005/06/how-many-americans-really-attend.html

it because the fundies make the rest of us liberal Christians feel uncomfortable so we don't go? Or because us liberal Christians don't feel like being told who to vote for?

I've left two churches in four years because of those two reasons.

iknow what you mean.

the intersting thing i found while looking at this is -- americans CLAIM to go to church and then don't show up.

but even fundies are witnessing a decline in church attendance -- i say with some grim satisfaction.

Every Sunday morning would be rush hour. Where's the traffic?

I've always wanted to start a church in a Wal-Mart parking lot. That's where most of the people are on Sunday morning.

your ass{and sundry church attendees} into the next county!

I prefer Target, anyways. :)

they don't have greeters at target do they?

Someone might greet you and shove a cart in your direction, but they pretty much leave you alone. Those Wal-Mart ones - if I didn't feel sorry for them for having to work in such a shit-hole - I want to slap upside the head and say "I'm here against my better judgment. Leave me alone!"

Around here the average age for WalMart greeter is about 75.

my mother -- god knows i love her -- but you could wanna slap the perky right the fuck outa her.
oy.

They have to go to Greeting Class, and learn how to be enthusiastic. No matter how shitty they feel, or if the aches and pains of arthritis are flaring, they must force a smile and welcome you.

But if you look into their eyes, you can see the pain. It :scared: me.

i think we could both have a religous experience right in the front of the genuine crocodile leather belts!

I mean, if we're going to go all cheezy, why not do it in style? :D

then we hit my sections -- i can never, ever have too many accessories.

And the costume jewelry! I need more cubic zirconia in my life!! :rofl:

rock the casbah, baby!

i need a new pukah shell necklace/choker for summer -- for real.
to go with bare shirt baggies look.

The fundamentalist churches practice christianity on the cheap. You don't actually have to DO anything to prove how religious you are except give money and blurt out "I have accepted jeebus as my personal savior" on demand. Real christian churches require a bit of walking thee walk. Y'know like helping the poor, donating your time to charitable cases, etc. without proselytizing.

also -- it won't be a surprise to learn -- women are more likely to go to church than men.

That's why their not as likely to go to church. ;)

because not a Sunday would go by that the priest was not railing about "secular humanists" or "radical liberals" or homosexuals or any group of people with an "agenda." He was devoting a great deal of time hating people who weren't in any of his pews. It got real old, real fast. I still consider myself a Catholic but I haven't got time for the pain they choose to inflict on others.

That's the #1 reason I hear from people who no longer go to church regularly.

and nobody EVER told me how to live my life. There are huge differences in denominations.

If, say, you are a lapsed Catholic, would you consider going to a Methodist church? Or is there something inside you that keeps you somewhat "loyal" to your particular denomination?

Around here, there are many, many Catholics and conservative Lutherans (WELS and MO Synod), but few other denominations. I serve the only two Methodist churches in our county, with a grand total membership of less that 150 people.

Our church is liberal - yet there are so few liberals actively seeking a church. Is there any hope for us??

see people aren't just going to church less -- they are socializing in ''community building'' groups less as well.

like kiwanis or lions or lol -- moose lodges -- so it's an over all interesting question you ask.

The Masons are wondering where their new members are. So are the Gideons (the "businessmen" who put bibles in hotel rooms). Perhaps some of these groups need to re-examine whom they have left out or alienated?

We may be more connected, technologically, but in many ways, I think we have alse become far more isolated than ever before.

one of the striking differences -- for me any ways -- is that when i go to europe -- europeans LIVE their lives outside of the house.
just extraordinary --

also for all that america claims to be so religous and wanting faithbased institions to do all this heavy lifting -- europeans are amazing socially obligated oriented.

But changing religions is a very scary and personal thing too many people. Its not llke going into a closet and putting on a new suit. Right now I am going thru another bout of depression because Rev Jim is retirring and I am having anxiety over meeting the new priest.I think am at the point where I just want to stay home and pray.

Church used to be a place where even the stranger was welcomed with open arms... not because of what they could do for the church (like $$), but because we believed that we had a message of hope.

Where did we go wrong? (the church)
Why is it impossible to hear words of hope? And how on earth are we ever going to get that message out, if people don't come through the doors?

I went thru a 3-month period of sabbatical. During that time, I learned that it takes a great deal of courage to walk thru the doors of a church you've never been to before. (I learned a whole lot more, too - but that's for another post.) And I found out how easy it was to simply NOT GO... and how hard it was to start up again.

Danny, I'll be praying for you and your parish, as well as whomever the new rector will be.
:hug:

I ll be praying right back at you , for you. PS is there a prayer to heal my bad grammar :D
:hug:

because it is superceded by your big heart. :hug:

atheist household, but had fundy relatives. My atheist father was a very gentle and sweet man, who had been horrified by hellfire and damnation preaching when he was a child, in a very fundamentalist family. Once, he took a bible that I had been given and highlighted all the nasty, violent, intolerant, and vengeful sections of the old testament, and wrote comments like "horrible" and "murder" in the margins. When I met my present husband, he was a Catholic and I converted for him. I took all the classes and I went to mass with him. Over the years, I could not tolerate certain "positions" that the church took, especially on birth control. In my life's journey I discovered that many churches had an agenda of one sort or another that I could not embrace, which turned me off to organized religion. I have now reverted back to my childhood and no longer believe at all. Maybe instead of being atheist, I am agnostic. But anyway, I believe if there were such a being as God, he wouldn't require worship, because such a being would be wise and compassionate. If he were not, then why would I want to be with him for eternity? In addition, I am too independent to pay attention to what any other person says about spirituality. I think for myself. If there is a God, he gave me independence, and he made me like this.

Anyway, that's my story of why I no longer go to church and why I won't be back. I can understand why a lot of folks do find comfort in their religion. Being together in a large group, listening to a good sermon, and singing inspirational songs, etc., gives you a feeling of belonging and exaltation, like going to a great concert or goingto a game where your team is winning.

So, I believe there are two ways to make believers want to go to services: 1) Scare them to death; 2) Make them really enjoy. I opt for the second, but I'm guessing it takes something that most clergy are short on - charisma. The most popular preachers, movie stars, and politicians all have it. I often felt Elvis Presley would have made the best preacher ever.

Amen to that, FlaGranny, if I may be allowed the expression. ;) I get that, I believe that, but no one else in my family does. C'est la vie.

"Church used to be a place where even the stranger was welcomed with open arms... not because of what they could do for the church (like $$), but because we believed that we had a message of hope." To which I would add; and a sincere desire to make the world a better place and to improve the lot of the poor.
That Church no longer exists anywhere I've looked. The doors are locked, as are their minds and hearts.

Committees are now "small group ministries," and every
meeting begins with a lame "spiritual reading." I know, many UUs
like this change, but it's not for me.

I joined the UU Church to get away from "ministry-based" religion.

Now, I'm considering The Ethical Society, which seems to be
what the UU Church used to be (for me): fellowship and support
for individuals seeking their own paths toward enlightenment.

I pray to god everynight that theres a medical breakthrough so that i can walk normally. I even pray on the rosary, but in my dealling with the priest for life crowd I have been called everything from a toddler killer, to an embryo farmer. A bishop actually told me that I have parkinson's because god is punishing me because i want to murder babies for personal gain. My mom says ignore it but she really doesn't know how it feels to be rejected and insulted for something you need so badly, and you believe in your heart that is right.I still pray nightly but for right now org religion and I are not compatible.

has happened to you.

having the problem is bad enough -- being told the solution you need is evil is a burden that no one in an educated civilized society should have to bear.

all i can say -- is that IF you miss church -- try something like the episcopal church -- which is USUALLY a very liberal church -- liturgical if you like that catholic thing{i do}.

check them out first -- cause some few are conservative.
but there will be a very liberal one near you -- that supposes that you have a need for it.
not all of us do.

:hugs:
I think thats the problem with being a lobbyist is that I meet so many of these priest of life crowd i think that am getting jaded by the whole thing. Hugs and peace thanks for the support I needed that.

I'd like to find that bishop and kick the crap out of him.
He has completely lost the gospel. Honestly, he's one of them there Pharisees, whining because the disciples were eating grains of wheat on the Sabbath... and he's lost all sense of mercy - all for a political cause. Such an asshole. :banghead:

I can't believe he said that to your face. Some day, he will have to account for that. But in the meanwhile, all we can do is to forgive him, because he literally didn't know what he was doing or saying.

Goddammit, that makes me so angry. :cry::hug:

I know you've probably heard it from a thousand people, but I am very sorry to hear this. I knew you had Parkinson's, but I did not know it was as advanced as it appears to be. That bishops and priests--who are supposed to COMFORT human beings and act as spiritual advisors--would tell you such things is abominable. Bile rises in my throat at the thought of your situation, which I cannot even begin to imagine, and how "holy" men treat you with regards to it.

I completely understand how you feel towards organized religion. It has never been very compatible with me, and such behavior from "holy" people is only one reason why I intensely dislike OR.

Good luck, Dan, and stay strong. I sincerely hope that a breakthrough comes soon, for you and for others like you.

:hug:

WIMR

:hug: right now am only in stage two of parkinsons and it's not as bad it could be. There's this one girl Ann who is so distorted she looks (not being mean) like a human pretzel and is in constant pain. I am just glad Ann doesn't lobby I'd hate for the rw loons to say something like that to her.

practically nothing but grand theater. The fundy mega money maker that my ex-hub dragged my (grown) children to for the Friday night Christmas pageant featured a live lion! Between the big screens, disco lights and rock music designed to attract tithing customers they insert their insidious little digs at liberals, homos and peace activists. It's disgusting. BTW, I think these "pageants", which you had to obtain tickets for, were in lieu of an actual Sunday session. Wouldn't want to face the fact that nobody would show up, now would we?

that is a wild description of a church service?

i became an episcopalian because of the blessing of the animals -- complete with animals from the zoo at the alter -- but it was a blessing and a sacrament -- but damn, no tickets were sold.

and the place was packed with people and their pets to be blessed.

because of his health no longer goes to church on Sunday. Maybe people are tired of lies from all directions.

or cults--such information does not surprise me in the least.

I never particularly enjoyed the Catholicism I was raised in. My father was UCC-raised--though he NEVER goes to church--and my mother was raised a good Catholic, though she has lapsed in recent years. Sometimes I look at her and think that she would be so much better off in another, freer "path," but I think she's very wary of changing even denominations. Some part of her still clings to Catholicism. I can't do anything about that.

For myself, though, I can do things. I long ago decided that organized religion was ridiculous, but in recent years, as I discovered my soul's purpose--writing--and realized the inherent spirituality of music and the arts, I decided that I was through with OR. Sitting in a church, listening to a priest talk, reading the words of other human beings--it was empty, compared to the fierce joy of writing, the fire in my fingers at the piano or on clarinet, the soaring of my soul when listening to music.

To me, the majority of ORs put far too much emphasis on the "next life." I believe Groucho Marx once said something to the point of, "Religion is the opiate of the masses." That is one of the truest quotations out there, IMO. The teachings of many ORs are to not worry so much about this life--just care about the next one. Don't worry if you're wronged, or persecuted--everything will be better in the next life. They teach people to sit down and shut the hell up. "The next life" is all very well and good, but with your attention focused there, you care for your own soul and nothing more. You do nothing to relieve the suffering of fellow human beings. Some of the most moral people I know are athiests, who do much in this life because they do not believe in a next one.

Also, with ORs you always--or almost always--have a priest of some sort who acts as an intermediary between you and a deity. Now, call me a skeptic, but priests are only human; they are subject to corruption as much as the rest of us. I'd rather not be depending on another human for my spiritual well-being, not when I feel I can go straight to the source itself. I'm not misanthropic; I'm not really a social recluse, but I do not trust any other person to define my spirituality, to tell me what a "God" says to me. I'll do it myself, thank you.

Well, that's just all my 2 cents. I honestly believe the world would be a better place with far less ORs out there.

un-heard of 10 years ago. Even 5 years ago.

has a hispanic community that asked the Catholic priest to do a mass in spanish--he refused. So they went to the Episcopal church and the church found a priest to come in on Sunday for a mass in Spanish. The Catholic church lost a large following to the Episcopalians. On Christmas Eve, the Episcopal Church is filled and the mass is beautiful. Every year it is filled because the church believes in tolerance and love. A church is a community of people, not a building. When you have mega-corporate churches (buildings), it does not mean it is a church, it's just a business. Quakers and other smaller Christian groups meet in houses, trading off every Sunday at different people's houses. My grandmother's church (more like Amish), believed that the first Christians met together in houses and her church plays no music while singing, and there are no ministers. Everyone stands up separately during Bible verse reading and tells how a certain passage relates to them. When music is selected, someone will just blurt out the selection number. There were no passing money plates. The church is a group of people banding together in fellowship.

by the huge numbers of new churches springing up everywhere?