How many DU women have had an abortion?

As long as we're polling, I'm curious to see how many women here have had an abortion.

No breach of privacy because this is an anonymous poll and if anyone shares a story, it's because they want to.

Sure to get hundreds of posts.

We are debating issues that effect OUR lives and OUR bodies. How is it in poor taste to see if DU women have been directly effected by this issue? Are you equally offended by the other polls?

I really hope you're a woman saying that (and I'm a guy). Also subject to "voting" by lurking freepers and nutjobs.

On edit: Also subject to "voting" by men. I voted "yes, no regrets" to prove my point...which brings the "total" to 13. Gosh, that seems like a lot already. :eyes:

Not exactly the best subject for an extremely unscientific internet poll. OK?

and I do understand the nature of polls on DU. You still didn't explain why this poll offended you.

just want to say:

If men got pregnant, abortion would be mandatory.

*I still beleive that.

The same way I believe every stupid blanket statement. Which is, not at all.

delivery would be even more uncomfortable for men.

nt

If women don't want to answer it, nobody is MAKING them!

What I don't get is why I have two men on a poll specifically addressed to women saying how dare I even ask the question. :shrug:

but the two men didnt make a similar comment on a similar thread that was created by a male that asked if males have ever been involved with one. Interesting.

You obviously get it. BTW, I just checked Will's poll — not a single woman posting on that one. :-)

I think this might explain some of that

:7

that's the nature of CHOICE. But you only get to decide for yourself, not for everyone else.

:nuke:

Let me first say that I am firmly pro-choice. However, I couldn't follow through with an abortion when faced with an unexpected pregnancy 25 years ago. I had a bouncing baby boy that I raised alone and never, ever, once regretted that decision.

I happen to agree with sentiment, "Abortion should be safe, legal...and rare." But I will never support any fraction of taking choice away.

"Abortion should be safe, legal...and rare."

Of course, I am glad I had the choice. And I always remain firmly pro-choice.

:hi:

Good god...
A woman's right to consult with her doctor is her right...what possible need would there be to QUANTIFY such a consultation in the form a poll

CHOICE is NOT UP for dissection, comment, political meanderings or judgement...no more than my doctor's visits are subject of persual.

:shrug:

Why are MEN offended by women discussing this?!?!? How dare I ask this question in polite company! :shrug:

they (and women) did not object to the "flip side" poll for men. I don't see how one is more objectionable than the other, so maybe someone will spell that out for us.

coast - I am not offended by this poll either & am perplexed why a man would care since a man will never have 2 face this decision Xcept vicariously. Had one years ago (birth control failure) - turned out I would have miscarried if I had waited because of another problem discovered during the pre-exam. I think I was fortunate. (And yes the 'father' was involved in the decision)

Funny that the guys are in a twirl over it. Maybe they really do want to keep us barefoot and pregnant. Or resent the fact that we ultimately control what happens to their seed. I'm rather surprised at their response.

It's a perfectly legitimate question. Good goddess, why is abortion such an offensive topic? It's a legal procedure the consideration at least affects millions of women every year and if a woman wants to answer the poll she can -- or not -- did someone miss the first class in "CHOICE 101"? Criminee!

was to find out how common abortions were with anonymous liberals. although i bet a fair numbers of freepers voted as well.

Geesh.

It just seems like a regular question to me but I am a male. But someone can choose not to answer and not discuss it with other DUers.

So far we have more men than women posting on it, but based on the judgmental posts on this thread it's no wonder women would not chose to discuss their thoughts in hopes of allowing men and women to understand this issue from both perspectives.

If you look at Will's thread, there is a stunning contrast. No women posted there. Men shared their stories in a supportive environment. I think this situation says A LOT about what women face.

And you know what? It has changed very little in the last generation. I was a member and moderator of one of the first women's-issues online discussion groups, in the mid-'70s (I think it was actually the first), and then as now, men were trying to tell women what to do. There are many more men today than there were then saying 'none of my business' (and you guys? A big THANK YOU for 'getting it'), but then as now, there were plenty men who really seemed panicked at the idea that we not only might not want to let them make our choices for us, but might not even want to listen to them on the subject. It was intensely frustrating, eye-opening, and, on one level, very funny too. A lot of women ended up having the 'click!' experience as a result of those rows.

I would never object to women discussing their abortion experiences (or non-experiences), and resent the implication otherwise. It's putting it in "poll" form that turns it impersonal and crass, not to mention completely ripe for error.

and why don't you let the women DUers decide whether they want to answer this one and whether they are offended by it?

Will's thread. NOT! And since this thread has been completely sidetracked by whether or not this is even an appropriate topic, my guess is we will NOT be having that discussion.

I used the poll format to protect anonymity and seeing how harshly women are often judged around here, I think that was justified. In my question at the end, I left it open for discussion to allow women to feel comfortable to participate at whatever level they felt comfortable.

and I voted. :-)

Julie-a woman

Abortion is EXACTLY the same experience for men and women, and I was a thoughtless shameless male pig for not granting absolute equality to both questions. Thanks for setting me straight. :eyes:

Love those rolling eyes! :D

Who said it was the exact same experience?!?! The point WAS if you objected to the poll format as being crass and impersonal, why wasn't the poll format in Will's poll just as crass and impersonal and why did you feel the need to address your objections to the women — who judging by the response do NOT have a problem with my poll — and not to the men.

On edit: Fixed my smiley face.

1. I didn't see Will's poll until long after I posted here.

2. It's simply not the same question, as you just admitted. Until the day we start injecting fertilized eggs into pods or something, it's unfortunately an indirect question when applied to men. As such, Will's poll can be worded much more elegantly. I'd honestly like to find one person who's been through the ordeal, male or female, who could ever truly answer "Yes, no regrets!"

:eyes:

I have some more women who would like to discuss this, so can we please just get back on topic. Thank you! :hi:

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

with this poll is that it offered an option to reply "yes, no regrets" and you simply find that response unconscionable?

Maybe you just need to accept that you are personally offended and leave it up to other people as to whether they wish to take part in the poll or not.

Will's NOT offensive, but this one is? Why should a man respond to this original post at all? Until you do, you can expect that we will agree with your self-assessment, only without the sarcasm.

Thanks.

I would never object to women discussing their abortion experiences (or non-experiences), and resent the implication otherwise. It's putting it in "poll" form that turns it impersonal and crass, not to mention completely ripe for error.

I wouldn't want to discuss an abortion experience on a message board because I feel that sort of sharing is proper only on a need to know basis. There are lots of things in my life that I will only speak about if I feel that my experience will be helpful to someone else going through the same sort of experience.

I don't see any problem with a poll, though. It's anonymous, voluntary, and actually quite interesting although it's not "scientific" at all. I responded, anonymously, and that's how my response is going to stay. Had you asked me in person, I would have said it was none of your business one way or the other.

I also answered. I don't see why so many are saying this is offensive. :shrug:

I was extremely lucky many times and I have never personally faced this decision. I have helped friends making the decision and then going to the clinic with them. I'm avidly pro-choice.

to talk about this but apparently it offends. I think it would also be interesting to see how many had this choice before Roe V Wade and if it made any difference. There is a vast difference between being pregnant, giving birth and having the ultimate responsiblity of raising a young one than just being there at conception and THAT is the choice many women have to make. Sorry guys. If you are fortunate enough to have a loving, caring, responsible SO then yes, it can be a mutual decision. Many do not and given the working situation of a young, single new mother I think ultimately women have to have that choice.

I agree that it comes down to choice. I respect booberdawg for her decision and recognize that it was right for her at the time.

I really believe that if it was easier for a young, single mother, that fewer women would make the decision to have an abortion. But what can you do when you're struggling with issues of working, daycare and meeting the basic needs of your family.

Just look at the case of the woman who left her children home alone because she didn't want to risk losing her job. A fire swept through her apartment and killed her children and now she is facing criminal prosecution.

These are the consequences woman have to face daily and I think they need to be able to chose their destiny.

I am guessing, although I could be wrong, that the men here who protest this are not the kind of men who would desert their families or at least would pay child support. Still, if the ultimate responsibility of the child rearing is with the woman then it should be her choice. Really, if we could get education and contraceptives freed up and available without all the BS this would be much easier because there would be fewer needing the proceedure. Thanks for this thread. I like it.

is that it was arson. She didn't kill her kids, that damned arsonist did. All she was guilty of was desperation and optimism. Women are vilified if we want to stay home with our kids and we're told we must have a payiing job. But if we do go out to work, we're told we're bad mothers, maybe criminal if we end up forced to make dangerous compromises we shouldn't have to make.

and my family always looked down on me for aborting.

Even though my sisters had children out of wedlock, and outside of their marriages, they still look down on me for it.

I was raised Catholic and both my parents were very much against abortion. In fact, the prior to the 2000 election, the church was sending out videos on the so-called partial birth abortion technique and urging them to vote for the candidate who would protect the sanctity of life.

So, my dad, a lifelong Democrat and union member, voted for Bush. Needless to say, it only took him a few months of having Bush in office to regret it.

Needless to say, I would never tell my family.

we have to deal with. It is such a stigma. A lonely thing.

I have a revulsion toward women procreating for no reason. When I say this, I'm referring to women who have child after child, with no spouse to help them to raise the child, and not being able to afford these children.

For some reason my sisters don't see things the way I do.

I think this way of thinking is a by-product of living in the ghetto. I chose to leave, and they chose to stay. Hell, even my own daughter chose to go back to it. I dread talking to her only to find out she has had yet another child that she can't afford to take care of, with no male role model for the child.

select that path. Environmental conditioning, lack of self-confidence to define themselves outside of the role of mother, need for unconditional love...

Statistically, though, single mothers are more likely to live in poverty. In some respects, I think removing their access to choice is a way of maintaining a permanent, subservient lower class.

my fucking asshole "pro-life" dad told me "but you arent married."


alkdjfla;kjfl;kasef;lkhaseflih!!!!!!!!!!!111

any of us adults discussing what we will here.

What amazes me, is that women would ever WANT to have sex with men.

Let alone give any man a say in whether to carry a fetus to term!!!

Jesus Chist guys, you sound like grossed out teenage boys when a group of women want to discuss something very important and very real to them, abortion. Poll, or no poll.

It reminds me of the look guys give when you remind them the their mother had to have sex in order to give birth to them.

They JUST DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT AT ALL, MAN!!!

Maybe most guys want to believe in a virgin birth scenario, when it comes to them.

:shrug:

"What amazes me, is that women would ever WANT to have sex with men."
That is a priceless thought given the tenor of some of these discussions. Thanks!

and bewildered that anyone found the question offensive.

:shrug:

Wording a poll in such a cavalier manner is.

Did the question touch a nerve?

This is not a simplistic issue, for men or women. Since everyone's comparing this thread to Will Pitt's, I'd much prefer the "I have/have not been involved in an abortion situation" (which begs further discussion in the thread) to a simple "Yes, no regrets". Reducing this to "yes/no" belittles the gravity of the question.

Semantics? Maybe. But as I've said too many times on this thread, I object to the wording of the poll, not the question. Apparently, even doing that makes me a typical male pig butting in on a female-only question, no matter how tactless.

Nor do you get to decide the parameters of the poll, or whether or not to include additional parameters that begs further discussion not related to whether or not a woman has or has not had an abortion.

Your objections have been noted - numerous times. Feel free to use the alert button. In the meantime, you have no say in how polls are conducted, and whether they are framed to suit your fine sensibilities is irrelevant.

G'day, sir.

contribute to DU so you are eligible to start your own.

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It's JUST an anonymous poll, for heavens sake! One can choose whether to vote or post, just the same as any other poll, including the other abortion thread started by one of the males.

That a few men have their bowels in an uproar over this is quite interesting, and not a bit flattering I might add. It never ceases to amaze me how indignant a few, and I do mean "a few", men get when it comes to controlling women's issues. Honest to Christ, now it's not even appropriate to anonymously poll this issue, much less DISCUSS it. Unfuckingbelievable. :eyes:

Maybe I should just let it drop. Honestly. I suppose I need not help to enable a few men to hijack this thread with this unreasonable nonsense. So I'll shut up now. Geeze!

and inequitable taking offense of this versus comparable polls aimed at men, alert the moderators? I think that it is important that they hear from as many of us as feel this way.

I think that was the whole point, sidetrack the whole issue. I LOVE the many enlightened men that I have seen around here — and I really think they are in the majority — but then I see things like this happen or some of the threads on rape or sexual harassment and I see how much farther we have to go before we really achieve equality and understanding.

It's bad enough that this week that we lost on a fundamental issue — a majority of men exercising control over women's bodies — but now some are trying to even control our discussion of it?!?!

BTW, I'm glad that you made the choice that was right for you but still understand that your choices aren't necessarily the right choices for other women.

You've mentioned it twice and I meant to respond - but got a little sidetracked. (ahem!)

I have always been pro-choice. And, I appreciate your words of support for the decision I made. The fact is, it never occurred to me that another pro-choice advocate wouldn't respect the choice I made. I mean, the operative word is "choice", is it not?

Oh, I was angry, ashamed, mostly scared to death. This would screw the hell out of my college plans as well. But as the day drew near, and the more time I had to think about it, the more I felt that anger, fear, and inconvenience were the worst possible reasons I could have to justify having an abortion. I was a responsible person and knew I would not be able to look myself in the mirror if I followed through. I've never regretted having him, and I did make it to college. :D

So, I had to tell my family. (ugh!) They were all quite supportive, and especially my dad! I lived with dad and younger siblings at the time and he mothered me to death with square meals before and after work and midnight supportive chats at the side of my bed. I have never forgotten him for that. :D

Linda

on edit: I did discuss this with the father. He preferred the abortion route, but respected my decision to change my mind and never gave me any grief about it, (although he never had any interaction with my son over the years either) And, he did pay child support until my son turned 19. A pittance - an amount that we agreed on - I always intended to work full time and never asked for an increase, although I could have and would have been awarded more.

there to help you. Sadly, some women aren't that fortunate.

or it's questions.

I think there just might be some folks around here with their "offense meter" set a bit low.

eom

n/t

At the very least it's educational. Looks to me like abortion is a lot more common than most people think.

Or is it, as I suspect, just the 'men'?

:grr:

Grow the hell up, boys!!!

if they choose not to? Who are we, as men, to decide what women do or do not find offensive?

When picking a thread women are fully capable of deciding whether or not to enter in, or pass by. Abortion is a hot issue, most certainly. Would it be better if we just buried our heads in the sand?

Women don't need men to make their reproductive decisions for them. Neither do they need men telling them what is and what is not ofensive.

and having the courage to speak up. Welcome to DU, zubeneshamali. :hi:

Thanks for your support.

n/t

at least to women. We should be able to discuss it freely. After browsing through the responses, I don't know how comfortable I am sharing, but I voted, so here goes.

Had one, it was a horrendous experience, it still haunts me.

I am so sorry that it still haunts you. :hug: Seeing what has transpired in this thread, I was afraid people would be hesitant to discuss it. Only if you want to say more, but was it the medical procedure itself or more the guilt afterward?

I'll pm an explanation.

but I support the ability of women on DU to communicate openly and honestly so I posted. :thumbsup:

women communicating openly and honestly. Obviously, not everyone supports that concept. Thanks!

In fact, the rhetoric is quite amazing on most threads concerning women's issues. If the issue is abortion then we are either fascists denying men a choice, or welfare queens expecting them to pay child support. If the issue is rape we are sluts that asked for it or gold-diggers looking to make a buck.

An people wonder why I am more scarce around here...I can watch a caveman movie and be left with the same experience.

but that's exactly why we need your voice around here. If you look at the start of this thread, I was definitely outnumbered and it wasn't until more women started speaking up that this thread go back on track. With you gone, who's there to watch our backs?

Our voices really don't matter anymore. So many males in our party will sell us down the river in a heartbeat for political expediency or for NASCAR dads..in my state an admitted GROPER who sexually harrasses women in the workplace just got elected and I am told to relax because he is PRO-CHOICE and is married to a Kennedy so he is really a Democrat.

I can make more of a difference one on one than on DU....

So can you...so can we ALL...we simply need to spend more time getting others to think than repeating the SAME ARGUMENTS TO THE SAME PEOPLE WHO ARGUE BACK THE SAME ARGUMENTS OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

thread and others. I try to take heart by the folks who get it, but the mysogeny is rampant.

As an aside, did any of you see this Robert Scheer (sp?) article?

It's a great editorial on Arnie and why it matters that too many denied the importance of the sexual abuse.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/scheer/2003/10/22/lockyer/index.html

Thanks

because abortion seems to be this thing that happens to someone else when infact ista lot people that you may or may not know.

regardless of "chooice" being any ooptiion its stll loooodaed with stigma and a very isolating experience.

ive given my sroty before and dont really ant to go over it agian but this whole late term abrotton thing has been very triggery so my day ahs sucked hardcore.

if you cant tell im realy drunk right now, hardly eaten anything all day so this is only two shots.

anyway im going to bed soon.

*props to women who have had to choose and to women in general*

is very eye-opening.

On edit: I KNOW I'm going to get flamed for this. Really, really badly. But, the sheer numbers of this poll....something like 2/3 of women have had an abortion...I dunno. It just doesn't make me feel good about women.

I really had no idea. I'm kind of in shock.

Alright. Flame away.

:shrug: I don't see anything wrong with getting an abortion but that's just me.

very easy to skew this poll - or any poll that is supposed to be dedicated to a subset of the larger DU community.

Though I admit it made me do a double take-- it's true that it's still a taboo question. All the more reason to discuss it on DU.

thank you, prolesunited!

:hi:

What was so surprising. The fact that so many women here have had an abortion? Does it surprise you that you haven't heard more about it. Seeing the response here, is it any wonder why women would opt to remain silent?

The fact that so many here have had an abortion? No, I know how common abortion is. I helped a family member get through one.

Does it surprise me that I haven't heard more about it? Yes, I have high standards for DU and am often disappointed when people avoid certain topics that are taboo here. I mean, this is an anonymous message board! If you can't talk about something here, where the hell are you going to talk about it?

Is it any wonder why women might remain silent? No, this is still a patriarchical society.

I guess the surprising thing was somebody asking a poll question that mattered.

why more questions that matter don't get asked around here. As you can see, this thread very nearly got sidetracked and shouted down. That's not really conducive to honest, open dialog.

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:eyes:

60 abortions among a membership of thousands. They are obviously promiscuous. (just the women, of course)

I was speechless. I decided to pass in this one.

It's finally gone. Thank you mods! :hi:

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and I'm sure they are doing the best that they can. Sometimes it takes awhile, but they always seem to get to it.

So, I'll see you and Chris on Saturday, right?

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and it's fixed now. I do agree that that guy was WAY out of line.

Promiscuous women?!?!? For one, for every woman that answered yes, there was a MAN in the equation, was there not? But I guess he was just a man being a man, while the woman was some kind of slut?

In addition, you have NO idea what types of relationships these pregnancies in. Some of those who get abortions are married. Are they promiscuous? Or what about those whose fetuses are not developing normally? Are they promiscuous? How about those in committed relationships whose birth control failed, like when they took antibiotics with the pill?

How DARE you stand in judgment of people and situations of which you have absolutely NO knowledge!

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

There was nothing in it to cause it to be deleted.

you were going to exit before you got trampled?? I don't get it?? Why did that get deleted??

My mind just went blank. I have no idea why it got deleted.

Really a man involved to huh? who would have thought!!??

Next I bet someone will figure out that they had sex to.

The post wasnt a documentary on human reproduction...


But rather a sarcastic way to point out the polled is flawed. That WAS the entire point.

And btw, there is nothing wrong with being sexually active. I didnt get to see most of the posts in response, but judging by the fact that they were deleted I suspect that they were attacks.

I would expect such a thing in freeper forum, but not here where most us are a little better enlightened (obviously not all though!)

I do apologize to everyone I offended by talking about sex.

You were not "talking about sex". You proclaimed that the number of yes votes on abortion indicated a propensity for promiscuity among the women here. A highly inflammatory and misogynistic statement to make - and surely why it was deleted.

Your *apology* now appears to be quite disingenuous under the circumstances. And, are you calling those of here offended by your comment that earned a deletion freepers? THAT'S interesting .....

Unnamed individuals did.

Buy it, don't buy, I don't care.

The fact is the poll is flawed. I don't buy for a minute that more women have had abortions on this board than not.

Anyone who believes that is fooling themselves.

And yes, generally its freepers that are offended by franky discussion.

or that it "proves" anything. Show me where someone did. So, the poll is flawed — just like any other poll around here. It was simply an exercise to get a sampling of numbers and opinions and start a dialog. There are 30,000 registered posters and only 100 answer a poll. I think people around here are intelligent enough to figure that out. No one said the poll was not flawed.

Did you or did you not say that you were surprised by the number of women who had abortions and that there were so many promiscuous women here? You launch a shot like that and people were supposed to passively accept it. Actually, the posts were that were deleted were fairly innocuous. The majority of them was a poster upset with the mods.

And I am not the least bit offended by frank discussion, but insulting women really isn't my idea of frank discussion.

But that doesnt change my point in the least.

Im looking at it statistically as opposed to emotionally, and the results show that more women had abortions than not. Doesnt matter if the number is 30,000 or 100.

And yeah, I agree that most around here are intelligent enough to figure that out, but If we only stated things that everyone already knew, there would be about 100x fewer postings.

And btw, I really didnt mean to offend anyone, nor insult women (believe me, I like women ;)

In seriousness I do apologize for offending, that was not my intention.

are a little better enlightened. Why are you trying to twist this around to make yourself seem like the offended party. You said the number of women who had abortions was indicative of promiscuity.

You didn't offend anyone by talking about sex. You offended some of the women here by basically calling them sluts.

It is interesting to note that the men who posted on this thread, when called on their B.S., try to turn it into an attack on them when they are trying to tell us what is an appropriate topic for discussion and insulting us with accusations of being promiscuous.

At the rate we're going, I'm surprised no one called me a feminazi.:crazy:

In fact Im amused that so many people are so sensitive.

I don't buy for a minute that more women have had abortions than not on this board and neither should you.

It's so surprising women would get offended by practically being called sluts :eyes: and nobody EVER made the assertion that more women than not had abortions.

We are talking about poll results....which was the root message.

The poll results indicate that more women have had abortions than not.


Clearly ludicrous.

and im not sure why i am even talking to you, considering it is a positive question, more peopel who have had abortions are going to respond. if the question was how many women here have NOT had abortions, it would show a larger number for those who havent. also there could be men voting for their female partners.


and it is insensitivity like yours that makes it unlikely that women are going to share their stories. 47% of women under 40 have had abortions so does this poll surprise me? no? does the reaction of some of the men here surprise me? sadly no? do i hope that changes? i hope to goddess yes.

Im trying to figure out why everyone is arguing with me and at the same time validating my point.

Thanks for the backup!

You are the one who tried to bring statistics into this, and you shouldn't do that with The Professor around.

There is no evidence whatever in any single post that the poll was intended to be a valid representation of the women of DU.

In addition, there is no LaPlacian basis to suggest that the number of respondents is sufficient to draw conclusions about the overall DU population of females. NONE!

The poll was OBVIOUSLY developed as a means to stimulate a discussion about this issue. No claim was ever made about an attempt to draw inferences and conclusions from the number.

So, you not only missed the boat completely, from a logic standpoint, but your knowledge of statistics is woefully inadequate as is evinced by your feeble attempts to club Proles with your brilliant numerical conclusions.

Grow up and try talking about the things you know.
The Professor

Now calm down a bit.

Geez

how can you be sure? A majority of the women I know have had one, usually when they were younger. And, NO, they are not sluts.

It seems as though you can't accept anything that challenges your narrow perception of "reality".

In fact Im amused that so many people are so sensitive.


yeah, 'cause, you know, its only a abortion.


this is not like getting your friggin' hair cut. its a very SENSITIVE issue with a lot of emotions attached too it.

only a fool would think otherwise.

There's a pretty wide range between "no regrets" and "I regret it."

i hate how everything comeing from planned apartnehood said "most women feel relieved" i wasnt fucking relieved and IMN NOT SORRY!!!!!!

everything that could go worng witht he situation did, my parents where totally unsupportvie, (i ended up not talking to them for weeks), the doctor was a compelte asshole and i felt extrememly violated.


i dont regret having the abortion but that day is still with me. the anger is still with me (if its not obvious) and i dont feel i need to present my situtiaton other than how it was becuase how i feel politically on the issue.

but it's too late to edit the poll. I agree that it's a continuum — so how about generally have no regrets and generally regret it.

I'm curious and a little bothered that some MEN here at DU seem to not only get offended at a poll that obviously is not aimed at them, but that they seem to have this overwhelming need to let their opinions be known where it has not been asked.

prolesunited: thanks for the courage to ask the question. I for one am interested in the poll and the comments, and am always seeking knowledge and enlightenment on the issues that are imnportant to me.

There is a huge area between "no regrets" and "had to live with it". I surmise that the women I know have had regrets--it is a difficult decision, and not entered into lightly. But we acknowledge the reality of our lives and circumstances and can then "live with the decision."

It is only my humble opinion that no matter the reason for terminating a pregnancy, women grieve over what might have been--and that is the natural reaction toward loss. When we lose a part of our body--say a breast--or lose our soul to unrequited love... that is bad enough. The decision to not continue a pregnancy can feel like you are losing a piece of both. It can be a time of spiritual hardship and growth.

So yes, there are regrets. If only I'd had more money, if only I weren't haunted by a rapist's face, if only my parents would listen, if only I had known I wouldn't have done all that acid, if only.... And the regrets must be acknowledged before recovering can be completed--and rape victims obviously have the most difficult healing.

The majority of us then "live with it". Not everyday, but you remember once a year, or once in a while, or when your tired arms finally receive that slippery, wiggling, beautiful, healthy, and most ardently desired baby. In those moments it is natural and healthy to remember, and acknowledge, and cherish what might have been.

I have no regrets. Don't remember the year it happened and I don't grieve about it. I was relieved after I had the abortion. Some don't feel like I feel.

statistics show that MOST women, the overwhelming majority, feel RELIEF after the proceedure, versus the right-wing creation of "post abortion trauma syndrome," which claims that women slip into deep, dark depression rife with crying fits...total bullshit.

The few women who feel this kind of "guilt" are the ones who have been bombarded with anti-choice propaganda and "baby killer" bombast. They are susceptible to such messages and buy into it. If such messages were NOT prevalent, then these few women would probably not feel the rightwing contrived "guilt" that they are told they are supposed to feel.

the forums of www.afterabortion.com and tell those woment that what they feel is "total bullshit." (rhetorically of course, those forums are very very sacred space.)


regardless of what women feel, regardless of what made them feel that way, it is not bullshit.

being told that your feelings are not politically correct is bullshit.

edit: added, an interesting opinion piece by the founder of afterabortion.com

http://www.afterabortion.com/pmdd.html

what I am saying is that statistics show that the overwhelming majority feel relief, and it is a shame that anti-choicers invest so much time in telling women that they should feel guilt.

What emerges is a self-fulfilling prophesy. Tell me enough how I am to feel and eventually I will.

Funny that abortions were regularly performed up until the late 19th century, before the professionalization of the medical establishment, and the procedures did not even enter into moral/ethics arguments. What I am saying is that the guilt that so many women feel has been enculturated into them. It simply was NOT this way prior to the twentieth century.

Many women who have abortions are married or in long-term relationships. Abortion shouldn't be seen as a procedure only for poor, acid-dropping rape victims. Many people have abortions because of birth control failures, not because they are victims, drug users, or living in poverty.

And most women feel a sense of relief after the procedure, not trauma. And I would wager that most do not spend a day each year wondering "what might have been." They get on with life, as they should.

I was giving examples, from my friends lives and my life. I'm guessing most unwanted pregnancies are due to birth control failures, when it comes down to it-but most times there are other circumstances at play also.

I also never to insinuate that the procedure was "traumatizing". Of course it is a relief, the uncertainty and fear of being pregnant disappears. And my entire point was that most women accept their decision and do not "regret" it. But that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with honoring their proven, unchosen ability to have a child.

For the record, I was young, married and in college when I aborted. Yes, it was a birth control failure, but the decision also hinged on our lack of money, and my serious partying, which I was afraid would negatively impact the health of the fetus. It was the right thing to do at the time. I am now remarried and have a one year old--and I am psychologically and economically able to care for her, a completely different situation than my first pregnancy.

Sorry if you feel that my personal opinion is "flawed". It comes from my life experiences, as I noted. I stand by my theory that women rarely use abortion merely as birth control after the fact, but have varying reasons for not continuing a pregnancy.

60 yes - 38 no

I was not expecting this big of a margin

Anyone think that freepers may be trying to skew things so they can rant about it over there?

I don't think this poll is "freeped". Many women have abortions. Birth control fails often. Folks make mistakes in the heat of passion. Pregnancy occurs.

participating in the poll. This is not scientific, or by any means a representative sample of ALL women on DU.

had an abortion, BD, but participated. I support a woman's right to choose. My best friend had an abortion about 15 years ago. I went with her and then my ex-husband and I took her back to our house for 2 days of decadent food, hangin' on the couch and watching such "intelligent" movies such as "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes":silly:....she has no regrets. I am grateful, however, that I have never been put in the position to have to decide.

I am appalled at some of the men here.....the topic is important to we women. To have the disrupters try to hijack this thread is abominable! We have a right to discuss our bodies when we choose and with whom we choose to do so with! We don't need your steeeeeeeenking approval! :mad:

I would like to see Will Pitt weigh in on this one......

Good topic, Proles!

Jenn

edit:typos

I think this thread has illustrated a number of points, one being how many women have had abortions. Chances are, you probably have friends and family members who have one as well.

However, there is such stigmatization and demonization of women who have had them, they can't discuss them openly. Look how difficult it is for us to have an anonymous discussion here.

I think women would carry a lot less shame and guilt with them were they allowed to openly express their feelings or even admit that they have had an abortion.

It makes me uncomfortable to know that they aren't talking about it. It's what disturbs me the most about this poll.
I'm 24 years old. My mother just told me last year that she'd had an abortion during her first marriage. I have to admit that I felt kind of betrayed that she waited so long to tell me. It's an odd thing to feel like you don't really know your own mother that well.

Edited for typo.

For her, that was probably one of her deepest, darkest secrets and for her to confide that to you was an amazing leap in your relationship. Try to see it from a different perspective.

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely pro-choice and support a woman's right to make this personal decision, but I can't understand how someone could feel no regrets about having to have an abortion or deciding to have one. :shrug: I just don't get it, I guess. I guess it depends how far along the pregnancy is, too. I know that I oppose third-trimester abortions except for cases of the health of the mother(fertility, to prevent strokes), or to save her life. First trimester and second trimesters I have no problem with. I'm consistent with Roe V Wade, mostly.

appropriate and actually works and KNOW looking back that they did the right thing given the circumstances for their sake and the sake of the unborn. They are capable of making that choice with their body and their future as are women who have the child and are either content or completely miserable because they have a child they are unable to care for, or children who may wish they were never born.

a child they are unable to care for? There are plenty of people who would like to adopt(unless you're a minority or some other unwanted child). It's sad that we have unwanted children in this society. People need to learn to be more tolerant.

Good answer. I also think people need to stop and LOOK at the millions of dollars and HOURS that are spent making the UNBORN an issue while the BORN get neglected and dismissed as "entitlements." The rhetoric has led the policy and I wonder if we aren't spending much more on the UNBORN versus the born given for some reason they are more of a political tool than real live BORN children that weren't aborted and live in poverty.

Someone who never knew his/her mom and was released as soon as he/she was born. I guess it would be ok but I don't think I could live with that experience.

between having a hard time about the decision, or how it went, and "regretting" having made the decision. The poll was a good idea, but the variety of possible responses was too small. There is a plethora of reasons and reactions.

I don't support tax money to pay for elective abortions. Obviously exceptions would be made for the mother's health and life, rape, and incest, but not for elective ones. This comes down to personal responsibility, and if it is to truly be a woman's choice, she must make the decision by herself, and not force other people to pay for her choice; some might disagree with abortion.

Go post on men's experience with abortion. Or start a new thread. This one was about women's experience.

of things and programs that I don't personally support. For example, I don't support the Iraqi invasion, but my tax dollars are certainly paying for it.

And then what if the woman doesn't have a way to support herself and her child or works in a low-paying job such as a clerk at WalMart. Don't taxpayers end up paying for that as well.

We certainly can't be advocating women having unwanted children they are unable to care for and throwing them out in the street.

BTW, as much "fun" as this has been, I should have gone to bed an hour ago. I'll check back in the morning. Goodnight! :hi:

sick thing to say, but some governments pay for abortions simply as an "investment." They think it's cheaper to pay for the one time abortion than to pay for the kid's education, health care, welfare, etc.....till he/she is 18 (and then beyond, potentially). That's the way THEY see it, I'm saying. I, personally, put NO stock in economic arguments as they pertain to social issues.

Lots of people disagree with homosexuality.

It comes down to in one instance society pays for an abortion. In the other instance society allows an unwanted child born and takes a crap shoot as to THAT getting worked out or resolved. Included on that is the risk that the child grows up in poverty, uncared for and becomes even MORE of a burden.

First of all, I didn't see NEAR the hostility over there as I have seen expressed here, nor did I see several women hijacking the thread into side arguments either.

Second, it seems that many of the men who blessed women with their outrage and indignance in THIS thread have had nothing to say in the one tailored specifically for men.

Well, well, well. How revealing :eyes:

I hope everyone reads both threads and deciphers the message between the lines. Not only are some men eager to control our bodies, they apparently are eager to even control our discussion of them.

I don't care how they try to conceal their motives, like it's none of our business, it really is quite obvious what is going on. Since WHEN do posters spend so much time debating the legitimacy and appropriateness of poll's around here.

I want to thank the women who had the courage to share their stories, despite the hostility found on this thread. My whole point was that many people that you know, respect and perhaps love have undergone this experience and the diverse stories help put a face on the statistics.

I do regret making the poll so black and white. As several women pointed out, it is a continuum of choice. You can have some regrets but still know in your heart that it was the right decision for your life and your circumstances. I wish I had included more "gray area" choices in the poll responses.

I also want to thank the men who spoke up here. I realize it is difficult at times to cross the gender lines. I'm sure you realize, though, how important it is to demonstrate to other men that it is possible to move beyond their perceptions and understand women's issues in a more enlightened manner.

It is enlightening. There are some amazing men here, good men, men who would be included in the discussion because they seem to understand the issue. I would have no hesitation, if I were pregnant, sharing the decision with men like this.

the illegal one: 1968, my roommate got pregnant and 5 of us scraped together the $600.00 she needed.. She had to go to Oklahoma and a medical student botched it.. she came back, sick, bleeding and still pregnant.. It was a typical cheapo motel..newspapers on the floor operation..

We had to raise more money..this time $800.00 becaus eshe was 5 months and they had to go to Nebraska this time.. It worked that time, but she was very sick afterwards.. The irony.. she married the guy 3 yrs later and they have 5 girls.. He was a football player,later to become a tv sports guy.. they did know that the baby they aborted was a boy.. :(


..... my story..

I got pregnant 4 months after a c-section, and my doctor wanted me to have an abortion.. I said no.. I would be eternally lost if I did not have my Steven :)..(my last one).. I had so many complications with each, that I could never have anymore even if I wanted to ...

I was 45 years old!!
Damn diaphram!

(married, by the way, in case someone cares)

I've also surrendered my oldest son for adoption, and raised my youngest son as a single mother. The pain and anguish of losing my son to adoption was and is far greater than any temporary discomfort I had from my 1st trimester abortion. The only thing I felt after my abortion was relief. Being coerced into giving my son up for adoption has haunted me every day for the past 25 years. And no, I would not have aborted him, knowing what I know now. I would have fought harder to keep him! You see, I had no CHOICE in the matter. I WAS going to give birth and I WAS going to surrender him for adoption. So I was told by my parents, my priest, my social worker, and of course, the adoption agency. Of course, being sent to an unwed mother's home and being brain-washed for 5 months didn't help, either.

It is all about CHOICE. I CHOSE to have an abortion when I was 19. I chose to raise my youngest son when I was 20. I did not choose to surrender my oldest son when I was 17. That is the only thing in my life that I regret, the only thing in my life that has caused me lifelong grief and loss.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2991/marybb.html
My adoption story

Your post compelled me to write.

I've had 3 friends who have had abortions and one that went the adoption route. The one who put her baby up for adoption has never stopped thinking about it, is still full of regrets and heartache. She will never forget. It was over 20 years ago. Fundies have a hard on for adoption. I have fundie relatives that adopted 9 or 10 kids. They get a romantisized glazed look in their eyes when they talk about it. On one hand they mention how brave and giving the birth mother was. On the other they put her down as a poor parent and talk about how lucky the children are to be raised by them.

My friends that had abortions seem to have coped better than the friend who went with adoption. Her family pretty much forced her to give up the little girl. She was a teenager at the time. Because she had the baby, she also lived with the class slut label :shrug: She took a lot of crap from the boys at school.

I am someone who was not wanted. My mother regretted having children. Probably would have been better if she figured that out before having 4 of them, but whatever. She was gung-ho at the start and then just regretted her choices. It's tough to live like that. There can be regrets no matter what choice you make. That's true of every thing in life.

My last story to add is about my husband's great grandmother who died from a back street abortion. Truly sad. She was young, very pretty and poor and left behind two small children. The loss of this mother and parent generations ago still effects his family.

I'm thinking of you. There are no easy choices in these situations, but at least there is a choice. It seems to me that difficult decisions in life are more palletable when you yourself make your own choice.

Sending you a hug.
Gina

PS
I've never had an abortion and have never been pregnant. Just weighing in. The poll is perfectly legit. Had a scare once. Thought I was pregnant. BF at the time was pushing for abortion. Truth is, I was older and capable of supporting myself and a baby. If I had been pregnant, I would have kept the baby and dumped the guy. If the same thing occured in my younger years, I don't know what I would have decided.

Peace

I was faced with that choice, and chose not to have an abortion. I was single, 25 and found myself pregnant. Not in a relationship, and the FOB (father of the baby) was all in favor of me having an abortion.

I was in favor of a woman's choice, but my choice was to continue the pregnancy. I had twins, as a single mom, and trust me, it was NOT easy. But I did it.

I am still in favor of choice, because no government can make that kind of a decision for a woman. They can't possibly understand or predict all of what goes into that kind of a decision.

My daughter (one of the twins) got pregnant at 13. Yeah, you read that right. THIRTEEN. I was horrified, and frankly, thought, "This nightmare could be over by 9 am tomorrow morning." But my daughter had her choice. She had the baby, and another (same papa) and married him. She took medical, but no other welfare. She's now 22, has two wonderful little girls, and is making about 50k a year working and has just gone back to college.

But not every woman has the kind of support to be that successful. A woman's right to choose ALSO INCLUDES the option NOT to abort, regardless of the situation.

becuase then girls everywhere are going to want to have babies. /sarcasm

my parents convinced me that nothing good would come of me continuing the pregnancy. had i been given some positive support, i would be giving birth in three weeks. *sigh*

also, there is a really nifty website for young mamas called www.girlmom.com they are switching servers right now but the discussion forum is really nice a supportive. its focused mostly for gals under twenty but good for anyone having children in and "non-tradtional" way.

to help YOU make a choice for you. I wasn't particularly supportive of my daughter's choice to continue her pregnancy and keep her baby either. But one of the things I recognized at the very beginning was that my relationship with my daughter was at stake - and that was more important than anything else.

If I had been able to choose for her, I would have opted for abortion. But it's not really like that choice has zero consequences, you know?

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troll. flame. etc.

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Don't have one. :shrug:

I guess it all depends on your perceptions. And describing a fetus as a baby is simply an inflammatory tactic. A baby is a fully formed human being capable of sustaining life outside of the womb.

buh bye!

:wtf:

Either you are or you aren't. Several people on this board have started their posts with, "I am completely pro-choice, but..." and then proceed to enumerate the ways in which they are NOT completely pro-choice.

Either you are, or you aren't. Get off the fence. Educate yourself instead of expounding countless Right-Wing propaganda phrases!

Don't pretend to be pro-choice and then argue against "certain" kinds of abortion, or funding abortion, or abortion in "certain" situations.

Either you are or you aren't.

I guess saying "Completely pro-choice" precludes those gray areas. But I think there are lots of folks "in the middle" - they don't want the government involved, but they really have a hard time with the idea that folks indiscrimanently (sp?) use abortion for other forms of birth control - which is kind of how the Right Wing desribes it.

:-/

Women indiscriminantly using abortion as birth control, having 10 or 20 abortions, is right-wing mythology. Sure it happens, but not as often as they would have you believe.

ask anyone who has had one if they would like to have that procedure done over and over and you will hear a very loud 'NO'

The right wing makes it sound like this is an easy decision and simple procedure. This is not a choice most women want to make.

The story in everyone's life is not the choice between a good option and a bad option, but a choice between two equally unapealing or two equally appealing options. Just my personal philosophy.

Peace

Men could easily vote.

Somehow there is a judgement on "liberal women" implied by this poll.

I personally don't like abortion at all, and would never do it, but I don't think a ban is the way to stop them, and I would NEVER presume to judge a woman who has had to make that agonizing decision.

Please explain.

And I repeat for about the fourth time, NO ONE CLAIMED IT WAS SCIENTIFIC!

And the only ones who seem to be making judgments about liberal women around here are the MEN who have found it necessary to try to interfere with our discussion.

I don't think most of the women here, including perhaps those who have had them, "like" abortions. But we are discussing the circumstances that surround them, the feelings that arise in the aftermath, and the necessity for preserving choice. How is ANY of that in poor taste?

a ban will not stop it, many women before Roe V Wade had them and died or were harmed. It will not stop but having it a legal proceedure at least, if nothing else, makes it safer for women. Hotel rooms, spare bedrooms, newspapers on the floor, unsterile equipment, strange abortionists who may or may not be doctors, abuse etc. THAT is what has and will happen if choice is taken away. A 16 year old girl (I just picked that age) with neandrathal parents scared of them and pregnant. No choice, little money will find a way. She may die or never be able to concieve again but she has little choice.

are scientific and if the responses on the POLL drive up a judgement, then that's great...let's GET those judgements out in the light of day and examine them since they are CENTURIES OLD and still harming women.

And find this poll interesting, and the comments by the women who particpated enlightening. My opinion? I don't think that's relevant here, this thread is about women, not men.

My in laws were such people and in the throws of a divorce when I discovered I was pregnant when abortion was illegal, but the rich in laws wanted their baby free of child support I got an abortion. It was fast painless and without guilt?

I'm really shocked at some of the stuff that's been posted here! I honestly expected better from a Dem site, but ... whatever.

Anyway I'm not offended, and I answered.

To those who referred to women who have lots and lots of abortions, consider this: as others have stated, this is not an easy decision. I know a woman who has had a few, and I think she should NEVER be asked to defend herself for it. Major drug problems, family had disowned her long before, emotional problems, etc. To brand her or others like her as some kind of thoughtless slut is to assume WAY more than you can possibly know. So when giving voice to your consternation at women who have 'too many' 'elective' abortions, just consider how much you DON'T know, okay?

The more you know, the more you SHOULD know that there is WAY more that you DON'T know!!!! Sorry... getting a little worked up here.

I just hate that it's so easy for people to stand in judgment of others ... *sigh*

When will we ever learn?

Thanks, prolesunited, for starting this poll... I hope some people's eyes were opened. No disrespect to NSMA's theory that everyone just keeps making the same argumenst back, but I can't help but hope that at least one person has had that 'click' experience that Mairead (?) described, and if that's so then I think all this fracas was worth it. (But then again I didn't have to read the sanctimonious 'promiscuous' comment, so... ;) )

Since there were approximately 60 yes votes at that time, there was obviously a lot of promiscuity with the women involved. :eyes: