Do you support Anti-War Rallies, if A.N.S.W.E.R. helps organize them?

I am curious how the numbers stack up here, after seeing some of the threads about Saturday's marches. As most people have heard, A.N.S.W.E.R. is connected to the Workers' World Party, which is IMHO a somewhat flaky Stalinist group supportive of Castro & the current North Korean regime, & previously of Moscow, Beijing, & Hanoi. Domestically, they support the AFL-CIO bureaucracy.

:kick:

I would march if I felt A.N.S.W.E.R. was going to provide a forum for my concerns. I did march in several A.N.S.W.E.R. demonstrations, and I considered marching in this one, but financial and personal matters weighed more than marching this time. That was not the case on March 15, the last time I went to an A.N.S.W.E.R. demo in DC. Then the war was imminent and the Bushists were pressing hard to totally demoralize the opposition. I thought it was urgent to go and be counted--not that I thought it was going to do any damn good, in the sense of making a change in the policy. This time, I didn't feel that same sense of urgency, though I basically agree that the US must exit Iraq. And I also agree that the road to peace and change in the Middle East runs through Jerusalem, not Baghdad. I guess I feel the time has come for rationality over ideology. I can't quite get with A.N.S.W.E.R.'s ideology.

you dont like their ideology, don't support them

I went because the cause was bigger than they were.

maybe Democrats could organize a protest... BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA!!!!
See what I mean?

Out of curiosity. I know they show up at them, just like Democrats. But why don't they devote some of their worthless presidential campaign fund to organizing protests?

So, ANSWER...even LESS of a "pary" than the Greens, organizes millions of people across the country into anti-war marches.

Why can't the omnipresent Democrats organize a little peace and justice? Whats that? Because thats not what they believe in?

Well! Why didn't you say so? :eyes:

I won't defend the Democrats on this issue. They've stunk of betrayal and fear from day one.

I would rather see the Greens leading the anti-war movement than A.N.S.W.E.R. But we take what we get.

....without evidence to back it up and using guilt by association to smear those you disagree with...

- But it seems ANSWER is in good company:

International A.N.S.W.E.R.
(Act Now to Stop War & End Racism)

Steering Committee:

IFCO/Pastors for Peace
Free Palestine Alliance - U.S.
Partnership for Civil Justice - LDEF
Nicaragua Network
Bayan - USA/International
Korea Truth Commission
International Action Center
Muslim Student Association of the U.S./Canada
Kensington Welfare Rights Union
Mexico Solidarity Network
Middle East Children's Alliance

List of Coalition Co-Signers: (join)
(as of June 20, 2002 )

* denotes organization listed for ID purposes only


Ramsey Clark - former U.S. Attorney General

Bishop Thomas Gumbleton - Auxiliary Bishop, Catholic Archdiocese of Detroit, Michigan

American Muslims for Global Peace

Al-Awda Palestine Right of Return Coalition, NY & NJ

Barbara Lubin - Executive Director, Middle East Children's Alliance

Rev. Lucius Walker - Pastors for Peace

Rev. Graylan Hagler - Senior Minister, Plymouth Congregational Church, Washington DC

Rev. Curtis Gatewood - Durham, North Carolina

Rev. Cecil Williams - Glide Memorial Church, Washington, DC

Robert Meeropol - Executive Director, Rosenberg Fund for Children*

Teresa Gutierrez - Co-Director, International Action Center, NYC

Karen Talbot - International Center for Peace & Justice

Committee for a Democratic Palestine

Ismael Guadalupe - Committee for Rescue & Development in Vieques, Puerto Rico

Michel Chossudovsky - Professor of Economics, University of Ottawa, Canada

Green Party USA

Howard Zinn - historian and author

Michael Parenti Ph.D. - author of 'America Besieged'

Dick Gregory - comedian

David Clennon - actor

Ben DuPuy - former Deputy Ambassador-at-Large, Haiti

School Of the Americas Watch

Humdan Durrani - President, Muslim Student Association of Richland College, Dallas, Texas

Eric Mar - Commissioner, San Francisco Board of Education; CFA/CTA; Asian American Studies San Francisco State University*, California

Chuck Turner - council member, Boston City Council, District 7*, Massachusetts

Al-Awda Palestine Right of Return Coalition of New York and New Jersey

Hoshikawa Jun - Director, Yakushima Institute, Kagoshima-ken, Japan

John Gilbert - university instructor and national coordinator, University Foreign Language Instructors, SNUR-CGIL (University & Research Union) and CGIL (Confederazione Generale Italiana del Lavoro -- General Confederation of Italian Labor)*, Florence, Italy

Ajmal Pashtoonyar - President, Afghan Youth Organization (AYO), St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada

Muslims Against Racism and War

Rev. Phil Wheaton - Committee for Indigenous Solidarity (CIS), Washington, DC

Tom Nagy - professor, George Washington University*, Washington DC

Nania Kaur Dhingra - Sikh Student Organization, George Washington University, Washington, DC

Martín Espada - poet

Sakhi for South Asian Women

Women for Afghan Women

Stephanie Simard - Co-president, Simmons College Feminist Union, Women's Fightback Network, Boston, Massachusetts

Michele Naar-Obed - Plowshares activist, Jonah House, Baltimore

Pam Africa - International Family & Friends of Mumia Abu-Jamal, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Michel Collon - author and journalist, Belgium

Left Turn

Heidelberg Forum Against Militarism and War, Germany

Italian Tribunal on NATO Crimes in Yugoslavia, Italy

Helena Papadopoulos - Researcher, Center for the Comparative Study of Law and Society, Rabieh, Lebanon

Elmar Schmaehling - Retired Admiral, German Navy, Germany

Wolfgang Richter - President, European Peace Forum, Germany

Issam Makhoul - member of the Knesset, Democratic Front for Peace and Equality (HADASH), Israel

Sally Davies - President, AFSCME Council 92*

Craig Newman - Executive Board, AFSCME Local 1072*

Andre Powell - Executive Board, AFSCME Local 112*

Eric Easton - Vice President, National Action Network, Baltimore, Maryland

Rev. David Carl Olson - Community Church of Boston, Boston, Massachusetts

Baltimore Coalition Against the War, Maryland

Women's International League for Peace and Freedom, Baltimore and Cantonsville Chapters, Maryland

Ricardo Juarez - Pasamontañas

Nino Pasti Foundation, Rome, Italy

Tobias Pflueger & Claudia Haydt - Information-Post on Militarism, Germany

New Communist Party of the Netherlands, Netherlands

African Immigrant and Refugee Coalition of North America

Dominican Workers Party, NYC

Chuck Kaufman - National Co-Coordinator, Nicaragua Network

NISGUA - the Network in Solidarity with the People of Guatamala

Ray LaForest - Labor Organizer, District Council 1707 AFSCME, NYC

Heidi Boghosian - Executive Director, National Lawyers Guild

Tom Hansen - Mexico Solidarity Network, Washington, DC

Kriss Worthington - Berkeley City Council, Berkeley, California

Leonora Foerstal - Women for Mutual Security

Asha A. Samad - Human Rights Center

April 25 Movement of the Dominican Republic

Njeri Shakur - Texas Death Penalty Abolition Movement

Michel Shehadeh - Los Angeles 8 Case Respondent, Los Angeles, California

Muslim Student & Faculty Association

Emmanunel M. Hizon - National Student Coordinator, Movement for the Advancement of Student Power, Quezon City, Manila, Philippines

Saad Kadhim - West Harlem Coalition, New York City

Leslie Feinberg - transgender author and Co-Founder, Rainbow Flags for Mumia

Kadouri Al Kaysi - Committee in Support of Iraqi People, New York City

Aisha Sabadia - Muslim Student Union, Amnesty*, Ann Arbor, Michigan

Minnie Bruce Pratt - writer and anti-racist activist

Vieques Support Campaign, NYC

All Peoples Congress, Baltimore, Maryland

Unity for Action, Baltimore, Maryland

Sharon Ceci - Shop Steward, UFCW Local 27, Baltimore, Maryland

Mitchel Cohen - Green Party USA and Brooklyn Greens, Brooklyn, New York

Milos Raickovich - College of Staten Island, CUNY*, Staten Island, New York

Carlos Eden - Raweshrar Project for Indigenous People, Chile

Jamie York - Cuba Advocate Newsletter*, Montana

Brian Barraza - Association of Mexican Workers, NYC

Justin Vitiello - professor, Temple University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

John Kim - Veterans for Peace, NYC Chapter, NYC

Mahtowin Munro & Moonanum James - United American Indians of New England

SAFRAD Somali Association

Monica Moorehead - Workers World Party

Arab Cause Solidarity Committee, Madrid, Spain

Korea Truth Commission

Congress for Korean Reunification

Struggle Against War Coalition, Italy

Trades Union International of Building and Wood Workers, Finland

LEF Foundation, St. Helena, California

SEIU Local 1877, San Francisco, California

Vanguard Public Foundation, San Francisco, California

Consuela Lee - musician

Bohemian Grove Action Network, Sonoma County, California

Sonoma County Free Press, California

Susan E. Davis - co-chair, New York Local, National Writers Union, UAW Local 1981, NYC

James Lafferty - National Lawyers Guild, Los Angeles, California

Campaign Against Racism & War, Oberlin, Ohio

Vietnam Veterans Against the War Anti-Imperialist

Dr. Pol De Vos - President, Anti-Imperialist League, Belgium

Refuse and Resist

Dr. Bert De Belder - Coordinator, Third World Medical Aid, Belgium

Dr. Jean Pestieau - professor, Catholic University of Louvain, Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium

Tri-Valley Communities Against a Radioactive Environment, California

California Prison Focus

Anuradha Mittal - Executive Director, Food First/Institute for Food and Development Policy

Sandra Robertson - Georgia Citizens Coalition on Hunger

Al-Awda Palestine Right of Return Coalition of Massachusetts

Radio Arabiyat, Boston, Massachusetts

Vanessa Marques - Portuguese-American Relief for Palestine

Rima Anabtawi - Al-Awda Palestine Right of Return Coordinating Committee

Committee to Defend Amer Jubran and Palestinian Free Speech Rights

Atlanta Masjid of Al-Islam, Atlanta, Georgia

Masjid Al Muminun, Atlanta, Georgia

Hadayai Majeed - Muslim Women's Political Action Committee

Gloria La Riva - West Coast Regional Co-Director, International Action Center, San Francisco, California

Julia Yonetani - researcher, University of the Ryukyus*, Okinawa

Eliseo Ramírez - Director Política, Internacional de Voz Proletaria, Buenos Aires, Argentina

Ali Baghdadi - editor, Arab Journal, Woodridge, Illinois

Claire Alby - documentary filmmaker, Paris, France

Gil Ben Aych - philosopher and writer, Paris, France

Debbie Anderson - founder, The Rosa Luxemburg Collective, McDonough, New York

Prof. Peter Erlinder - professor of law and former president, National Lawyers Guild, St. Paul, Minnesota

Yafar Gonzalez Bornez - Madrasa Islamica Imam Ar-Rida (A.S.) - UMMAH, Granada, España

Abigal Coburn - student, Friends World Program*, Southampton, New York

Ian Harvey - Florida Education Association, AFL-CIO*, Naples, Florida

Kevin Ramirez - Military Out of Our Schools coordinator, Central Committee for Consientious Objectors, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Richard Hugus - Cape Cod Coalition Against Iraq Sanctions, Falmouth, Massachusetts

Sergio Sánchez - Facultad de Ingeniería, Universidad Central de Venezuela, Utopía Universitaria, Caracas, Venezuela

Vera Vratusa-Zunjic - Faculty of Philosophy, Department of Sociology*, Beograd, Yugoslavia

Steven Gillis - Executive Board, USWA local 8751, Boston School Bus Drivers, Boston, Massachusetts

Gerry Scoppettuolo - Director of Education, South New Hampshire HIV/AIDS Task Force

Keith McHenry - co-founder, Food Not Bombs, Tucson, Arizona

Teresa and Blase Bonpane - Office of the Americas, Los Angeles, California

Mohau Pheko - Pan Africanist Women's Organisation of Azania, Johannesburg, South Africa

Seena Yacoob - Researcher, Johannesburg, Gauteng, South Africa

Evangelos Mahairas - Honorary President, World Peace Council, Greece

Mark Taylor - professor, Princeton Theological Seminary*, Educators for Mumia

David Sole - President, UAW Local 2334, Detroit, Michigan

Nadine Rosa-Rosso - General Secretary, Workers' Party of Belgium, Belgium

Stan Goff - writer and organizer, North Carolina Network for Popular Democracy, Raleigh, North Carolina

Sidney J. Gluck - Chairman, US-China Society of Friends

Veronica Golos - poet, NYC

David Obiekwe Quarter - Toronto, Canada

Richard Roper - England

Mark Burwinkel - Cincinnati, Ohio

Lee Mager - London, England

Heather Cottin - Long Island, New York

Beatriz Morales - Madrid, Spain

Campaign Against Plan Colombia, Barcelona, Spain

Garibaldi Collective, Barcelona, Spain

Batasana, Euskal, Basque Country

Karim Lopez - Institute for Mass Communications

Oklahoma Socialist Cooperative, Oklahoma

Radical Women

Freedom Socialist Party

Johnnie Stevens - People's Video Network, NYC

Arab Women's Solidarity Association, San Francisco Chapter, San Francisco, California

Savas Michael-Matsas - General Secretary, Christian Rakovsky Balkan Socialist Center, Athens, Attica, Greece

A Jewish Voice for Peace, San Francisco, California

Marco Frucht - Editor and Publisher, Activist Times, Green Bay, Wisconsin

Greg Miaskiewicz - Adams County Green Party, Gettysburg, Pennsylvania

G.N. Saibaba - general secretary, AIPRF, India

Klaus von Raussendorff - Anti-Imperialistische Korrespondenz, Bonn, Germany

Arab Cause Solidarity Committee, Spain

Mimi Adams - Arab-Jewish Dialog*, Albuquerque, New Mexico

Gavan McCormack - Australian National University*, Canberra, Australia

Bay Area CISPES, San Francisco, California

Bündnis Global Gegen Krieg (Global Alliance Against War), From, Germany

Saundra McMillan - professor, California State University at Long Beach*, Long Beach, California

Jason Johnston - Campaign Against Racism and War, Oberlin, Ohio

Campaña Contra Plan Colombia (Campaign Against Plan Colombia)

Robert Franck - professor, Catholic University of Louvain*, Belgium

Michael Green - Executive Director, Center for Environmental Health, San Francisco, California

Aton Ra - Center of Strategic Future, Stockholm, Stockholm, Sweden

College Voice

Roy Rollin - College Voice, NYC

Committee on US-Latin American Relations (CUSLAR), Ithaca, New York

Manfred Eber - Chairperson, Communist Party of Austria, Tirol, Innsbruck, Austria

H. Charfo - Head of the Department of International Relations, Central Committee, Communist Party of Bohemia and Moravia, Praha, Czech Republic

Marina Drummer - Community Futures Collective

Brett de Bary - Professor of Asian Studies, Cornell University*, Ithaca, New York

Greg Ericson - Founder, freepressinternational.com, Austin, Texas

Justin Bendell - Fuguers Cove Collective*, Madison, Wisconsin

Patrik Köbele - Chairman, German Communist Party, Ruhr-Westfalen, Germany

Giorgio Ellero - Gruppo Zastava Trieste, Trieste, Italy

Dennis Apel - Guadalupe Catholic Worker, Guadalupe, California

Alex Plows - Gwynedd and Mon Earth First!, Gwynedd, Wales

Claudia Haydt - board member, IMI-Informationsstelle Militarisierung, Tuebingen, Germany

Tobias Pflueger - chairman, IMI-Informationsstelle Militarisierung, Tuebingen, Germany

Karim Lopez - Institute for Mass Communications/ HYP-HOP*, Brooklyn, New York

Hugh Stephens - Secretary, Institute for Independence Studies*, London, England

Adam Blunt - philosopher, International Action Center - Bridgewater State College Chapter, Canton, Massachusetts

Canadian-Cuban Friendship Association, Vancouver, British Colombia, Canada

Marília Rondani - Núcleo de Meio Ambiente da União de Mulheres de São Paulo, Brasil

Falco Accame - former president of the Defense Commission in the Chamber of Deputies, Italian Tribunal on NATO crimes in Jugoslavia, Italy

Peter Cadogan - chairperson, London Alliance for Local Democracy, London, England

Tim King - farmer, Long Prairie River Stewardship Project, Long Prairie, Minnesota

Media Monitors Network Southern (mediamonitors.net), California

Taijun Nishida - No More War*, Hiroshima, Japan

Kevan Hudson - Director, Ogoni Solidarity Network, Richmond, British Columbia, Canada

Joshua Thomason - Co-Chairperson, Oklahoma Socialist Cooperative, Chickasha, Missouri

Joseph P. Horgan - Shop steward - IBT shop, OPEIU Local 2*, Kensington, Maryland

Athos Fava - Secretary for International Relations, Partido Comunista de la Argentina, Buenos Aires, Argentina

Patricio Echegary - General Secretary, Partido Comunista de la Argentina, Buenos Aires, Argentina

Elizabeth O'Nan - Director, Protect All Children's Environment (PACE), Marion, North Carolina

Judith Detert-Moriarty - Rock County Citizens for Peace, Janesville, Wisconsin

Wendy Strebe - Rural Community Assistance*, Las Vegas, Nevada

David San Martín - Sentimientos Kontra el Poder, Getafe (Madrid), Spain

Bet Power - Director, Sexual Minorities Archive, Northampton, Massachusetts

Daniel Golovaty Cursino - Shalom Salam Paz*, Brasil

Fausto Schiavetto - Soccorso Popolare (Popular Aid) - Padova, Padova, Italy

David A. Smith - Editor, Social Problems, Irvine, California

Spanish Campaign for Lifting the Sanctions on Iraq, Spain

Olivera Pavlovic - doctor professor, Yugoslavia

Aisha Sabadia - Muslim Student Union, Amnesty*, Ann Arbor, Michigan

Susanne Kelly - secretary-treasurer, Local 334 OPEIU*, Richmond, Virginia

Saif Bonar - Surf London, London, England

Thomas Claesson - Teachers League of Sweden*, Skärhamn, Tjörn, Sweden

Justin Vitiello - Professor of Italian, Temple University*, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Jamie York - The Cuba Advocate Newsletter*, Deer Lodge, Montana

Linda Wolf - Director, The Daughters Sisters Project, Bainbridge Island, Washington

Maher Kouraytem - The Lebanese Communist Party, Beirut, Lebanon

United Public Housing Residents, Washington, DC

Judith Kegan Gardiner - Director of Graduate Studies in English and Professor of English and of Gender & Women's Studies, University of Illinois at Chicago*

Claudio Moffa - professor of History of Afro-Asian countries, University of Teramo

Vietnam Veterans Against The War Anti Imperialist

Voice of Yugo-Diaspora

Jutta Burghardt - former Director, World Food Programme in Iraq*, Sankt Augustin, Netherlands

Arthur Staats, PhD - Professor (Emeritus) of Psychology

Dale Sophiea and Elania Nanopoulos

Felicity Arbuthnot - journalist, England

Leila Sansour - T.V. Producer, London, England

Lester Schonbrun - Oakland, California

Muna Hamzeh - author and journalist, Austin, Texas

Riem Farahat - Long Beach, California

Seemin Qayum - New York City

Susan Peters - New York City

Keiko Kani - researcher and environmental specialist, Konan, Aichi, Japan

Tracey McPartlan - Director, 11th Hour Group*, Lennox Head, New South Wales, Australia

N. Falciatano - Animal Defense League*, Los Angeles, California

Donnie Quest - student organizer, AxCx Punks*, Laramie, Wyoming

Ross Stuart Marat - Bedfordshire Socialist Alliance*, Luton, England

Kathleen Semanski - student activist, Boston University*, West Hartford, Connecticut

Ian M. Betteridge - Publishing Administrator, British Medical Journal*, Brighton, East Sussex, England

Phil Runkel - archivist, Catholic Worker, Marquette University*, Waukesha, Wisconsin

Hillel Barak - Committee for One Democratic & Secular Republic*, Beit Shemesh, Israel

Kathryn M. Daly - law student, CUNY Law School, Flushing, New York

Eduardo Unda Sanzana - Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Soton*, Southampton, England

Brian Shea - Disabled Peoples Liberation Front, Boston, Massachusetts

Paul Davidson - Euro-Cuba News, London, England

Alexis Ponce - Vocero Nacional, Asamblea Permanente de Derechos Humanos (APDH) del Ecuador, Quito

Soledad Paz, Argentina

Bernd Hamm - Professor of Sociology, Jean Monnet Professor of European Studies and Director, Center for European Studies, University of Trier*, Germany

Stratis Kounias - University of Athens*, Greece

Grace de Haro - APDH Human Rights Organization, Argentina

Ramiro Gonzalez - Argentina

Martin S. Past - coordinator of international activities, Peace Office Netherlands

Wanda Colón Cortés - Proyecto Caribeño de Justicia y Paz, San Juan, Puerto Rico

Randolph Carter Richter - First Church of Christ, Scientist, Denver & Boston*, Lakewood, Colorado

Dorothy Byrne - Green Political Party, St. Petersburg, Florida

Roz Rayner-Rix - Hambleton Area Belly Dance Association*, Dalton, Thirsk, England

Mickey Gibson - Harmonic Arts/West*, Bainbridge Island, Washington

Michael Gene Ratkewicz - Account Executive, HotJobs.com*, San Francisco, California

Tomiyama Ichiro - staff member, IMPACTION*, Kyoto, Japan

Mindy Stone - Indian River Green Party, Vero Beach, Florida

William D. Fusfield - Associate Professor, University of Pittsburgh*, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Tony Robertson - Community Worker, Micah, Inc.*, South Brisbane, Australia

Nick Valvo - student, Oberlin College*, Oberlin, Ohio

Eric Scheinert - member, Ryan White Care Council, PHHASE, Inc. Compassion House, Lakeland, Florida

Joan Clingan - educator and anti-racist, Prescott College Master of Arts Program*, Prescott, Arizona

Brent Buell - writer, teacher and civil rights activist, Professional Staff Congress*, New York City

Bobbie Dee Flowers - College Assistant/Site Coordinator, RB/LIU*, New York City

Steven Schroeder - Instructor in Philosophy and Liberal Studies, Roosevelt University*, Chicago, Illinois

Tian Harter - member, Santa Clara County Green Party, Mountain View, California

Mick Dunford - Honorary Editor, Regional Studies, School of European Studies, University of Sussex*, Brighton, England

David Muller - South Movement, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Dave Havard - Deacon, St. Margaret's Anglican Church*, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Nancy Bauer - Assistant Professor of Philosophy, Tufts University*, Newton Highlands, Massachusetts

Nathan A. Hawks - webmaster, WarOnWar.org*, Metairie, Louisiana

Kristin Andrews - Facilitator, Watauga Green Party, Banner Elk, North Carolina

Stephanie Carlisle - Wesleyan University*, Middletown, Connecticut

Damien Lawson - Western Suburbs Legal Service, Newport, Victoria, Australia

Norwood Orrick - Programmer, WMNF Community Radio*, Tampa, Florida

Dhruti Contractor - Graduate Student, Yale University*, New Haven, Connecticut

Michael Petrs - Young Democratic Socialists*, Avon Lake, Ohio

rev les ego - Linguistics Editor, Zentences, New York City

David Klein - in-home-services social worker, SEIU*, Altadena, California

Alex Holcombe - organizer, San Diego Coalition for Peace and Justice*, San Diego California U.S.

Diane McKay - adjunct professor, Rutgers University*, New York City, New York

Stefano Perale - dottore, Manitese-Venezia*, Ve-Mestre, Italy

Sheila Howlett - Peace Activist, Kawartha Ploughshares*, Peterborough, Ontario, Canada

Kristen Gregg - marketing director, HEAL Foundation, Memphis, Tennessee

Teddy Yoshikami - public and multicultural programming, American Museum of Natural History*, Brooklyn, New York

Audrey Williams - President Afrimerica, Inc., The African Stock Exchange Development Corporation, Dover, Delaware

Mary Zoeter - ESL tutor and president, Action for Animals Network, Alexandria, Virginia

Adele Macy - Weaverville, North Carolina

Ahmed Tar - Lomita, California

Alex Koppelman - Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Andrea Boudreau - Columbus, Ohio

Andrea Ginsky - Sarasota, Florida

Andrea Janette Long - Atlanta, Georgia

Andrea Scharnau - Arlington, Virginia

Andrew Bruce - Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Antonie Brinkmann - Bremen, Germany

Antony Schofield - mental health advocate, England

Anuradha Sachdev - Los Angeles, California

Ari Weinstein - Working-Class Fighter, Moscow, Idaho

Arthur Lam - Chicago, Illinois

Ashley E. McClure - Seattle, Washington

Astrid Muender - Uniontown, Pennsylvania

Ben - Melbourne, Florida

Brandon Stevens - Fairview Park, Ohio

Brittany Gravely - Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts

Carole Brow - Clements, California

Caroline Nappo - Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Catherine M. Stanford - Saratoga Springs, New York

Catherine Wanliss - Cape Town, Western Cape, South Africa

Cathy Swedlund - Sapello, New Mexico

Chao-ju Chen - Ann Arbor, Michigan

Charlotte Fisler - Allentown, Pennsylvania

Chrissie Esch - Hillsdale, New York

Claudia Camba - Argentina

Cressida Magaro - Leonardtown, Maryland

Dan Nagle - Santee, California

David Asbury - Wilmington, Delaware

David Beaudin - Rothesay, New Brunswick, Canada

David Kellum - Arlington, Virginia

Day Irmiter - Tucson, Arizona

Debbie and Fred Anderson - McDonough, New York

Dereka Rushbrook - Tucson, Arizona

Domenica Nieddu - Santa Fe, New Mexico

Dousset François - Paris, France

Dr. Hilda Lopez Laval

Dr. Kristina Boerger - NYC

Dr. Shihab Kuran - Bridgewater, New Jersey

Eileen Welch - Washington, DC

Emily Petry - Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Eric Bourgeois - Cambridge, Massachusetts

Erika - Stevens Point, Wisconsin

Erin Stropes - Glendale, Wisconsin

Eva Schmidt - Morgantown, West Virginia

Eve Powers - Eugene, Oregon

Gery Armsby - activist and grant writer, Brooklyn, New York

Gregory Sanders - Carrollton, Georgia

Heather Starr - Ranchos de Taos, New Mexico

Heinz-Juergen Haettig - Freiburg, Germany

Helen C. Sumerwell - Washington, DC

Henry N. Lawrence III - Panama, Florida

Hiroko Kawabe - staff member, Kobe YWCA*, Akashi, Hyogo, Japan

Inés Fernández

Ingrid and Christophe Grillet-Aubert - Paris, France

James A. Ward - South Point, Ohio

Jane Rowland Brady - Surfside, California

Jason Pfaff - student, musician, poet

Jeffrey B. Davidson - actor, Woodbridge, Virginia

Jennifer Kirby - Jackson, Montana

Jessica Cohen - Lynwood, Connecticut

John Vickery - adult educator

Joseph Backus - Kingston, Ontario, Canada

Juanita Filip - bi-lingual teacher, Westfield, Massachusetts

Jun Ishiura - manager, Kamaishi, Iwate, Japan

Karen Ann Gallagher Waggoner - Item Processing/Taping Dept. Lead, Felton, Delaware

Katerina Zikmundova - Brussels, Belgium

Kenneth V. King, Jr. - seminarian, Oakland, California

Kevin M. Martin - Dayville, Connecticut

Kinsey Oleman - Dayton, Ohio

Kris Bauer - San Francisco, California

Leah Hesla - Austin, Texas

Lee Mager - London, England

Ludwig Heinrich - Lennox Head, New South Wales, Australia

Luisa Brehm - ethnologist and human rights activist, Lisboa, Portugal

Marco Rodrigues - Yonkers, New York

Margaret James - Aberdeen, South Dakota

Margaret Robinson - Erlanger, Kentucky

Marilyn Gill - La Mesa, California

Mark J. Burwinkel - Cincinnati, Ohio

Mary Kate Farley - administrative assistant, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Mary Yingst - Denton, Texas

Matt Fiocchi - student, Lake Tomahawk, Wisconsin

Matthew Johnson - Harrisonburg, Virginia

Matthew Yezuita - Somerville, Massachusetts

Megan McDaniel - Cambridge, Massachusetts

Michael Flanagan - Boulder, Colorado

Morgan Russell - Albuquerque, New Mexico

Nancy Cuffman - Great Barrington, Massachusetts

Nancy Moreno - Miami, Florida

Nathan - university instructor, Baltimore, Maryland

Panayiotis Papadopoulos - Student, Sparta, Greece

Paul Ratcliffe - translator, Cambridge, England

Phoebe Brow - Lawrence, Kansas

Phyllis J. Machelor - Casa Grande, Arizona

Pink Noise - Berlin, Germany

Randy Larr Hendrickson - full time worker, Sun Valley, California

Richard Martin - Tampa, Florida

Robbie Holden - Newark, New Jersey

Roger James

Roger Lagassé - Sechelt, British Columbia, Canada

Roland Dion - San Diego, California

RoseMarie - Kenilworth, New Jersey

Ruei-Suei Sun - Los Angeles, California

Sam Archer - Brookline, Massachusetts

Sara Powell - Annandale, Virginia

Sarah Lonberg-Lew - Gloucester, Massachusetts

Satya Rudin - Margate, Florida

Sayel Cortes - Student, Guadalajara, Jalisco, México

Seiko Kumano - Kita-ku, Tokyo, Japan

Shay Stewart-Bouley - Chicago, Illinois

Sonjia Hyon - student, Minneapolis, Minnesota

Teresa Damron - Eugene, Oregon

Theau Yannis - Costa Mesa, California

Thomas King - citizen for justice and peace, West Jordan, Utah

Tia Wallach - Lakeside, California

Tommy McNamara - New York City

Tracy Carcione - Teaneck, New Jersey

Victoria D. Gaines - psychiatric escapee and activist, Hagertown, Maryland

Dianne S. Lobes - peace activist, WAND*, Eugene, Oregon

Robert Lophovsky - adjunct faculty, University of Dayton*, Dayton, Ohio

Allen Campbell - Edgemere, New York

Cary Birdsall - teacher, Talkeetna, Alaska

Chris "The Anarchist" Ryan - community organizer and activist, Columbus, Ohio

Emily Roscia - recent law graduate

Margot Sheehan - writer and graphic artist, Hoboken, New Jersey

Maribeth Botts - writer and musician, LaFeria, Texas

Noriko Kokubun - university professor, Yokohama, Japan

Oona Besman - academic and activist, Columbus, Ohio

raindog - earthling, California

Randy Richter - service administrator, Lakewood, Colorado

Due to an overwhelming response to the formation of this coalition, we are experiencing a significant backlog and are unable to publish your endorsement immediately. However, please be assured that your endorsement is greatly valued and will be listed as soon as possible. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to call (212)633-6646. Ask for Sarah Sloan.


((Thanks to Q for having posted this earlier))

besides them what good are they ;)

Very impressive.

I was even more impressed with ANSWER after seeing it than I had been before.

Ramsey Clark has long been a hero of mine- ever since my military days because he dared speak out.

Check out this thread of my other heroes, Veterans for Peace. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=603223

Their organization is a real inspiration www.veteransforpeace.org

Peace Burt

I feel like a total schmuck for spreading negativity about A.N.S.W.E.R. all over this forum. Honestly I do. I was reading proles' thread and asking myself why the hell am I denigrating one part of something much bigger that she and you all should be proud of, which is staying with the movement and making sure it grows.

I hope to see you at a demo one of these days, no matter who runs it. Your keeping the faith is an inspiration.

Peace to you.

Don't you dare feel like a schmuck! I didn't see you spreading negativity! I only saw you asking questions which you have every right (and even obligation) to do when people start sounding alarm bells! Not one of your posts (that I saw at least, and I did see the 3 major threads) made me feel you were denigrating either the organization or those who joined.

I hope to see you at a demonstration one day! Are you anywhere near San Francisco? If ever you are, PM me- we will certainly go together if there's a march and if not, we'll just round up the Bay area DU marchers and go out for a drink!

Please don't feel that way. No offense was taken from any of your posts and I've been particularly short-fused today so you know you've been cool!

Peace

Thank you for your kind words. I'm in NYC, but we're planning a trip West probably in the spring. I'd love to meet you. And if you're ever in NY, PM me, okay?

I plan on taking a trip to the city in March and if I do, I'll definitely look you up! Make sure you PM me when you do. I promise you a good time with the SF crowd :) We've been hanging together for about 1.5 years now... it's like DU live minus all unpleasantness!

Peace :)

to guide those you misled to the truth...

feeling like a 'total schmuck' for your actions is one thing....getting up and fixing the damage is what people do if they really mean it....

He even had a thread in the lounge about it and I really appreciated that even if I don't think he has to do that.

The more people like Burt we have, the more those posters will get stomped by all of us when they start that garbage again.

They took a really sound beating and I appreciate the opportunity we had to talk about it and learn. I learned a few things I didn't know either and have a lot more respect for ANSWER than before.

We old DUers have to stick together and be a little more judicious about some suspect postings and all of the silly threads those people are starting are making that happen. The silver lining my friend ;)

Peace

I wouldn't be too proud about what I was posting yesterday if I were you, either.

...and when the Dems organize one, I'll go to that one too.

but it doesn't seem that the Dems have any intention of organizing one. Looks like something our official Party doesn't want to touch with a 10 foot pole.

Regardless, it did my heart good to listen to Kucinich's supportive message to the protesters and to see Barbara Lee and Cynthia McKinney present. Guess all the other Liberal Dem politicians were busy that day...

Someone tell me too when the Democratic Party organizes one. :eyes:

We didnt get a congresswoman like Barbara or Cythina but we did get Al Sharpton who was a joy.

We saw McKinney from about 2 feet away as we were walking behind the stage. We started screaming "Cynthia! You're our heroine! DemocraticUnderground.com LOVES you!" It was great seeing that beautiful lady :)

United for Peace and Justice, which was the co-sponsor of this event. Or have they been tainted now, too?

I arrived in DC early and had the opportunity to visit the Holocaust Museum, which I highly recommend. One thing that struck me was a section about the rise of Hitler and fascism. It wasn't so much that he enjoyed popular support but that the groups that opposed him were unable to unite in a strong enough coalition to defeat him.

I really see that currently taking place in the U.S. today. We DO have an enemy — and it isn't each other.

A.N.S.W.E.R. is a problem. I don't trust them. I think they're an albatross that doesn't need to be around the neck of the anti-war movement, except that they seem to have an extraordinary capacity to organize massive demonstrations several times a year. Makes me wonder where they get the wherewithal to do it.

One problem with being affiliated with a Stalinist organization is that you know they're not democratic ultimately. Every position taken in its name is vetted for political correctness.

How would you feel if A.N.S.W.E.R. were not run by Stalinists but by LaRoucheites? Would you understand any better my reservations? Or would you excuse the significance of that, too?

Maybe some didn't march because they thought Democrats most closely associated themselves with the anti-war movement, and so many who would have marched otherwise decided not to, because of their left-wing craziness.

Oh NOOO...it's not wrong if YOU do it :eyes:

I don't fault people for marching. I do fault people for trying to paper over A.N.S.W.E.R.'s politics.

secondly, what about them Democrats?

They get their wherewithal from people like me and other activists who have been with them for decades fighting injustice.

3 years ago when they were mostly protesting the Israeli occupation of Palestine, there were only a few of us showing up- die hard Leftist activists from various Liberal groups in my area... Those numbers kept growing as people saw what was going on with the occupation especially after Mohammed Al-Dura's brutal murder as his father was trying to shield him from IDF bullets. That film galvanized a lot of people and the numbers started swelling as did the donations. By the time Afghanistan rolled around, more people joined. With Iraq the numbers positively jumped.

America's conscience is being awoken... We can't go back to sleep which is precisely what the right-wing wants and which is precisely why you see this frenzied, organized effort to discredit them. This effort is their new parallel to the Commie scare of the 60s...

Didn't buy it then, ain't gonna buy it now.

End war and racism... Protect workers' rights. That's all ANSWER is asking. I'm unequivocally behind them.

It's not that Stalinism is scary anymore. It's irrelevant. It's been discredited. Which doesn't mean all communism or Marxism has, though we will very likely have a theocracy in the US before we have a legitimate movement toward real communism.

My objection to A.N.S.W.E.R. is not that I fear it as a political threat to anyone but the left at large. My fear is that they will lead the left back into the margins, after a year of building a major democratic movement, hooked into a global movement, to make the governments of the world responsible to the will of the people. A lot of what happened to deflate the movement was not the fault of A.N.S.W.E.R., of course, but of the Bushists and Blairites who completely ignored us and went ahead and did what they wanted anyway. This tactic of theirs deserved a response. Was this protest last week suitable to the task? I honestly don't know. Did the coalition broaden last week? I heard the numbers were in the tens of thousands. Weren't there hundreds of thousands last year?

And by the way, Tinoire, I appreciate what you're saying above, and I definitely agree that now is not the time to go back to sleep. I also want to see the movement grow, and I also want to see it connected internationally.

They require some thought...

I'm not sure how many were at the SF march but according to one DUer who climbed up high to see, it was the second largest march we've had in the 2 years we've been marching. Strangely, it seemed to me that it had the most police. The anger of the protestors seemed more compact too- I don't know how to describe it better but it was almost palpable, simmering as if soon it will boil over and I think that's why all of a sudden we're seeing this concerted attack and it's not just at DU- they're doing it on all the traditionally Left-leaning sites.

Who exactly are you referring to when you say after a year of building a major democratic movement, hooked into a global movement, to make the governments of the world responsible to the will of the people? I think you're referring to the Democratic Party but I'm not so sure because I'm not seeing the Democratic Party that way right now. I see a lot of us as being like that but very very few of our representatives because when we were faxing and protesting and calling and writing, they ignored us totally. I still have the "Kiss my Ass" letters that Feinstein sent me and recall the curt messages from the offices I called so while I blame the Bushistas and the Blairites greatly, I blame us for not only not stopping them but for enabling them. Men like Robert Byrd, Kucinich, McKinney and Barbara Lee were the lone voices representing us and they've been either demonized or marginalized by the same people attacking ANSWER.

The protests won't be suitable to the task until the protestors cross the line to anger and I hope we don't get to that point because I remember some of the photos from the 60s that I grew up with and they're scary. I believe this movement will continue to grow and more military people will join- when too many military people start being vocal, that's when things will turn ugly I think.

Also, ANSWER is already very internationally connected (look at that list again ;) ). I first met them in Germany and I know they're very active strong in France where they've done a lot to fight the corporate erosion of workers rights.

As long as we don't go to sleep, I'm happy. We have really got to force our government to represent our will, the will of the people and both parties seem to be kicking and screaming about it (granted the Republicans make less of a pretense and/or only cater to certain people).

Good-night and thank you for that post.

which has been way far behind on resistance to the Iraq adventure. I'm referring to the spontaneous-seeming accumulation of millions of rational people who fought much harder than anyone was expecting to stop the war. I'm also still seething over Hillary Clinton's and Chuck Schumer's betrayal of the Democrats of New York with their votes on IWR and the "Patriot" Act.

It's encouraging to hear that the numbers were larger than were reported, in SF anyway.

He's a veteran at these things and very good at guaging the size... What was neat this time was that we had even more DUers come than in the past and some came from as far as San Diego.

I thought that's what you meant (whew!)

When I find out more about this march, I'll let you know but it did have better speakers than normal (first time I've ever seen Cynthia McKinney and Ron Kovic) and people came from even further to join. It was also our largest DU group because normally we're about a dozen- this time, even missing three of our most steadfast marchers, we were about 20. 22 if you count Symbolman and co who didn't march with us but had a great show going! I really hope you can manage to make one. I think the next one is in February and if we know you're coming, we'll treat you right :)

trying to usurp our Constitution and Bill of Rights. The Bush Crime Family IS. Get it? I for the life of me can NOT understand why people are so concerned about the "pinko commies" taking over our country when in reality, it's heading towards fascism. You're playing right into their hands when you agree with this subterfuge.

I didn't. In fact I resent your suggestion that, because I'm critical of A.N.S.W.E.R., I'm in that other league of nuts who are afraid of commies and pinkos.

But aren't you playing into their hands when you allow the movement to be confused by A.N.S.W.E.R.? Do you like having to defend your protest from charges that you were exploited by Stalinists with a totally different agenda from yours? (Assuming you're not a Stalinist.) Do you you think I like asking uncomfortable questions about the leadership of a protest I essentially agree with at the risk of being labeled an aider and abettor of the enemy, as I have been several times today?

Why is A.N.S.W.E.R. at the lead of this movement, anyway, and not, as Terwilliger and Tinoire point out, the Democrats?

perhaps it's because many of them are too busy voting for the war?

No, that can't be it.. :eyes:

A funny suggestion, really..

And not just in Congress, but in city halls and statehouses across the country. It's the leadership of the Democratic party that is not with the program.

they're not going to lead any grass roots anti-status quo movement for anything, let alone anti-war/anti-occupation.

I just worry about the movement being marginalized, which is right where the Bushists want it to be.

(not just a reply to BurtWorm, but something I put together and expanded on as I was thinking about a particular point of his)

CPUSA is well known for their past history, nowadays a mostly toothless supporter of certain sections of capitalist bureaucracy and a section of the Democratic Party, having long since sworn off any independent or useful approach to the struggle (assuming they ever had one). Likewise, NION is affiliated (only loosely so, it seems) with the RCPUSA. Being something of a independent leftist/bordering on Trotskyist myself, I haven't much use for any of them except as a marriage of convenience as the times require (perhaps that is a bit opportunistic of me as well, but I'm not Nietzsche's Superman and swords that are already forged will have to do until the environment begins to improve, perhaps I will have to start something myself if Tariq Ali & Bill Vann can't clone themselves). On the other hand, while I have my differences with these groups I do greatly appreciate the time they dedicate towards organization and mobilization in displays of nonviolent resistance to these criminal adventures that the Republican and Democratic politicians, and their quisling lackeys internationally, keep coming up with, and thus I'll usually keep to myself about those differences that I have with them in light of the service they are providing within this shameful vacuum.

And all differences aside, in the face of the murderous aggressions and the THOUSANDS of people butchered worldwide in these wars constantly launched by the US government, I'm not about to attack an entirely non-violent protest group instead just because I don't like their views on certain other matters (again, however wrong I think a couple particular among them to be, nobody appears to be dying from their thoughts--or are the wrong thoughts a crime now?--, unlike the views of these (R)/(D) parties which seem to end up murdering people left and right all over the globe year after year). On the other hand, the ANSWER movement is a remarkably diverse coalition of a great many views that I do happen to support (the WWP and its support for "red" reactionaries and capitalist bureaucracy aside) alongside those I don't, and there are far more worthy people that are a higher priority for me to attack than them, all things considered.

ANSWER is able to mass the crowds they do because mod-libs are just not working towards it. Assuming they're not voting in support of the imperialist war being waged--as is quite often the case--, and when not joining with the right in attacking the left--which mod-libs fear more than Republicans, it seems, as evidenced by the ridiculously paranoid theories they even here come up with when attacking anybody but the "neocon" imperialists behind these crusades--, they're too busy praying that some other pack of opportunistic hypocrites like Germany/France/Russia, the UN, the Democratic party, etc etc will magickally "do the right thing" in their place, when all signs point to them having no real reason to do so, much less any reason gleaning from their pasts to expect that they would.

On the other hand, I don't think these marches are effective in a direct manner, except in the sense of getting people involved (and in that way, positively effects the situation anyway, but not directly delivering any message to the politicians in power that would make any difference that big campaign donations can't trump). The whole question is one of economics, so long as it is profitable for these criminal adventures to be waged--they will continue to happen, no matter how many "NO WAR!" signs are out on a street. For the tendency--which is not unique to the Team Bush mafia--to be brought to an end, it must be made extremely difficult for these regimes to wage their colonial wars, and there must be difficulties made to the jobs of the criminals who hatch these plots. But the marches are a good babystep and placeholder until something like that happens, so I won't be criticizing them too virulently on those grounds until then.

some mighty long run-on sentences there that I could've organized better, but it'll due..
thanks for that post above list ANSWER's coalition members, had seen that before but forgot to save it. :hi:

It's not easy pulling that kind of information together for such a thoughtful post- I really appreciate you taking the time. I've book-marked this thread for future reference because there's too much good information in it!

:hi:

Peace

I agree that these marches are clearly not effective as policy making. They had zero effect stopping or even slowing down the war. They will probably also have zero effect on ending it. But they do involve people, and they certainly stimulate thought and discussion as well as action. And just having these numbers of people being stimulated to take action aganst this war can't be a bad thing.

...and occupation of a foreign country, my opposition to the immoral pukes who stole the leadership of my country, and my utter revulsion of U.S. foreign policy since the Spanish American War, but....

I agree with more of International ANSWER's positions than I disagree with. So for the record, I'm PROUD to join ANSWER in the streets, and thankful for their efforts to get the message out. Thank you, International ANSWER!

they're wrong on everything. I used that word, rather, because some of what they stand for makes a lot of sense to me, while some of it (ie, North Korea) seems hard to fathom.

more than I despise sectarian leftists.

Besides, the sectarians behind ANSWER aren't a threat to my freedoms - the Bush machine is.

that seems to have the energy or the guts to put on anti-war rallies, yeah, i'll proudly march in them.

the have other causes they support, but the rallies seem to have an over-riding theme: anti-war. and thats what 90% of the marchers are there for.

you have to make it a broad based rally. If you make into an ideological love fest, you alienate many of the people who would support the cause.

I NEVER see any ANSWER folks trying to convert the masses into Trotskyism or whatever. They helped to put the rally together.

you DIDN'T convert? ;-)

Have you actually talked to any of the people who are big ANSWER supporters?

Most of them are not going to vote for Dean or Clark in 2004 no matter what happens.

There is no "uniting" of voters, it's more like a "uniting of angry".

I think it's great for them that ANSWER is doing their thing, but don't confuse their goals with our goals.

and, if you think you shouldn't align yourself with some leftist group, I'd suggest you drop NARAL and NOW fast! They have particularly distinctive leftist ideologies.

My goal is just to vote for peace and justice. I won't vote for any Democrat who doesn't advance that and I've been a loyal Democrat until now. What are your goals? Blind obedience to the Dean and Clark machines?

Lots of Kucinich supporters there but I guess they don'tfactor into your goals. As a Leftist Dem, they totally factor into mine.

Methinks our goals are definitely not the same. Their goals are peace, justice, an end to racism, and the protection of workers rights; what are your goals?

Replace Bush with a Democrat. That's my goal right now.

If it isn't your goal, then you are no better than Nader in 2000.

:eyes:

Democat has spoken from the pulpit and I'm so hurt!



Now that I've gotten the tears out of the way, I feel better because I realized that the juvenile insult could have been worse- you could have insulted me by saying I was no better than a Conservative Democrat trying to push ABB down people's throats in order to later brow-beat them into voting for an unpalatable candidate.

Hail to thee Democat!

Let me know when you catch that elusive swing voter vote, unless of course you're more familiar with them than I am.

You will not SHAME anyone with those fascist tactics. If anything, you make people feel shamed to know that there are pledge-demanding Brown Troopers in our party walking around demanding allegiance from the people they fear will undo all their hard work in steering the Party to the right.

NO to war. NO to Occupation. NO to racism. No to exploitation of my brothers and sisters in this world. Those used to be Democratic goals- not sure what new ones you want to replace them with because our goals certainly don't seem very similar.

The way I see it, the parties are the system. They have long stopped serving the people.

The rallies they organize aren't about communism, they are about saving lives. When they call for support for Iraqi resistance, that may disgust some Americans, but remember, ANSWER is int'l, and Iraqis are getting slain.

And I personally think that if any organization is going to be organizing anti-war protests in this country it should NOT have International in the title. I would rather march under a GRASSROOTS organization than ANSWER. That and I REALLY dislike how they are using the publicity that the marches get to push their agenda instead of the agenda of the broader movement, and their agenda is too radical for me to stomach, think of what it does for "mainstream" America. That and they want to do too much with too little resources. That doesn't work very well.

I'd go to a freaking Free Republic rally if they were holding it specifically to oppose the Iraq war, simply because,in this theoretical situation, we would be united on that front. I might not agree with all of the speakers, like some here feel about the recent DC rally... but it all makes a message on one clear point.

Give me an example of them pushing thier agenda in thier rallies? Other than having speakers ramble O/T? This isn't a challenge, I just am uninterested genrally and haven't heard of them doing this.

I was THERE and I saw a lot of mainstream America there as well. What kind of protest do you suggest would be suitable for mainstream America?

You saw it unmediated. I know what it's like to be there, in the festival atmosphere, among the grass roots. I remember seeing a family at the March 15 demo who looked like they had been on their way to the Smithsonian and wound up at the Demo by mistake. They had suburbs written all over them. And I'll never forget the signs the kids were carrying. They'd clearly made them themselves. Just a scribbled "No War" written in little letters in green ballpoint ink on a piece of cardboard. They were not protest veterans. They didn't even know how to make a sign. And they didn't know how to stand, except together, wearily. But they came, just like me and the thousands of others around us, because they clearly felt they HAD to be there.

Thanks to A.N.S.W.E.R. for making it possible for people to come together to demonstrate, then and now.

Unfortunately, A.N.S.W.E.R. doesn't seem to get that people are not coming to worship them. I wasn't at this demonstration, but I did note at the March 15 one that speaker after speaker after speaker after speaker spoke in leftese, one of the least inspiring bastardizations of the language. And I don't recall a single speech that moved me. And if C-SPAN had been showing that face to the nation, which I think it was, the nation would have gotten a false picture of the whole event, which was not at all about A.N.S.W.E.R., but about all kinds of Americans trying desperately to stop the war as best they knew how.

I was at the mach in March (pardon the repetition) and NONE of the speakers that I saw moved me all that much. The thing that moved me was the sheer numbers of people there, not what those people up on the stage were saying. They said some very smart things, but not many inspiring things except "March!" The speakers at the rally I was at on Saturday were good and inspiring, they spoke concisely in "plain folks" type of language. I woouldn't give them a prize for oratory or anything, but what they said was stirring because it struck a chord on a much deeper level than the ones I saw in DC.

:think:
We need to have a made-for-TV rally and march, perfectly planned and executed — sanitized for mainstream America's protection. We can have a gated entry system through which each protester will pass and be screened.

As far as appearance, absolutely no weird-looking people with different hair colors, tattoos and piercings. Clothing can be casual, but not too individualistic. Khakis are preferred. We also, need to carefully screen signs. No outrageous messages. Nothing that possibly could offend. Puppets, of course, will be banned. They are just too silly.

The speakers also must pass muster with a review board. They will be chosen for not for their message but their ability not to offend. No unscripted remarks and absolutely no signs of passion.

Is THIS what you want?!?!?

One of my favorite chants walking down the street was "This is what democracy looks like!" Notice that it is with a little "d." It is messy and diverse and even scary sometimes. It also is energizing and powerful.

Nice try, though. I'm not the strawman you're arguing against. My position is this: the antiwar movement is bigger than A.N.S.W.E.R., but A.N.S.W.E.R. is how it gets boiled down for public consumption. It's much safer for the Bushists to have the anti-war movement boiled down that way. Then they don't have to do the hard work of marginlaizing us. We do all that work for them.

One of the most appalling posts I saw here yesterday was buried in an ANSWER thread were someone was advocating a dress code and showed pictures of us Black folks all prettied up for one of Dr King's Sunday marches. I almost went through the screen in rage but refained and posted counter pictures off face-painted, bearded, pierced ear, long-haired hippie protestors (you know the real manly ones with that Ron Kovic look). What I really wanted to find was photos of Black people being attacked by german shepards to ask if that was what the poster wanted to see again.

Thanks for making me laugh. Your post summed up some of the most ridiculous objections I saw these last few days and made me realize how drab I must have looked in my little teva sandals and jeans clutching a Not in Our Name sign...

Funny post but to the point and it sums up exactly what will happen if we allow people to demonize ANSWER and replace it with an insipid, politically correct movement that won't offend Middle America. It took Middle America years to wake up to Vietnam- I can't wait that long especially not with the weapons being so much more obscene these days.

Peace

I feel that their choice of speakers are just too far out there for mainstream America.

Democrats? Housewives?

No, people who've always fought for the people who have less than no voice in the consciousness of those who affect them so much. The reason those organizations don't have influence in mainstream America is that there is no one to represent them, until a popular support for war gives them an unusual platform to get their message out.

You want to sell things to the public. Fine. Sell them a Democratic party that actually wants to stand by the ideologies that liberalism represents.

And I personally think that if any organization is going to be organizing anti-war protests in this country it should NOT have International in the title.

Let's get rid of the International Red Cross too. That's just goofy in the extreme. Why shouldn't a worldwide peace and justice organization be internationally affiliated?

I would rather march under a GRASSROOTS organization than ANSWER.

And why is it not GRASSROOTS?

That and I REALLY dislike how they are using the publicity that the marches get to push their agenda instead of the agenda of the broader movement, and their agenda is too radical for me to stomach,

WHAT are you talking about? What agenda? I've been to 7 ANSWER marches/rallies and haven't been clued into "the agenda" Is that like the homesexual agenda?

think of what it does for "mainstream" America. That and they want to do too much with too little resources. That doesn't work very well.

And once again you pull things out of the ether. What are you referring to? "They want to do too much..." They do? How do you know? What "much" are they "too" trying to do?

I think your agenda is a bit weird.

And once again you pull things out of the ether. What are you referring to? "They want to do too much..." They do? How do you know? What "much" are they "too" trying to do?

Were you watching the same C-Span I was on Staruday morning? They had speakers speaking out against Iraq, Ashcroft, Bush, speaking out for Palestinian liberation, speaking in favor of unionizing in South America, along with others. Laudable goals, all of them, but they are aiming for too much without enough resources in my opinion. That also would make public perception of them a little fuzzy due their desire to do SO much. That and they advertised the Rally as ANTI-WAR and ANTI-Patriot Act, not anti-occupation, pro-Palestinian liberation, and pro South American unionization. That kind of thing sent me for a tailspin when they had people talking about things that were not advertised and only tenousouly related to the advertised agenda. And considering I know what is going on, imagine how it is for your average joe that's just clued in.

And their choice of speakers were those that people would have issues with. I mean, I have no issues with a clergyman speaking, but a Black Muslim? Can we say Malcom X and all the trouble that he stirred up is STILL stuck in the minds of white middle class America, not to mention 9/11. That and the speaker for Queers for Peace just came up and did what I would term as an introductory hello to new members of the group and advertised, which everyone did, but he didn't really say much else than that which struck me as being VERY opportunistic.

WHAT are you talking about? What agenda? I've been to 7 ANSWER marches/rallies and haven't been clued into "the agenda" Is that like the homesexual agenda?

Have you ever been to their website and ACTUALLY read into what they are about? I get e-mails from them very regularly, they are further left than I am, and I'm a die-hard green. They are VERY communist and have connections, as mentioned earlier in this thread, to an organization that is Lenisist/Stalinist in nature. That and I've talked with some of their members and they are total communists, the ones I've met and spoken with anyway.

And why is it not GRASSROOTS?

Grassroots, in my definition, is something that is established without outside help (outside meaning outside of this country), like United for Peace and Justice or MoveOn or Not in Our Name. Those I consider grassroots as they started in this country originally. I somehow doubt that is how ANSWER was started.

Let's get rid of the International Red Cross too. That's just goofy in the extreme. Why shouldn't a worldwide peace and justice organization be internationally affiliated?

International Red Cross I know their motives (saving lives, has been that way, always will be I hope) and it is totally altruistic. The fact that ANSWER is using the publicity from the rallies to push other agendas than that of stopping Bush and stopping the occupation makes me suspicious of their motives. That and their connections to Communist organizations that had ties to Beijing and Moscow makes me VERY suspicious of them.

Now who's pulling stuff out of ether, huh?

I was not attacking Malcom X for that. Me personally I have no issue whatsoever with black muslims or with Malcom X. I was simply stating the middle America has a problem with him. I was never bashing Malcom X or what he stood for, but was merely pointing out the mainstream perception of him. Preaching to the choir is easy, its going out and converting the non-believer that is the challenge, and you have to know what they like. I'm not saying that they SHOULD shy away from that, I'm never said that or even impied that. Hell, I'm Wiccan, and in some parts of the country (including the one I live in) people think of me as a devil worshipper who eats babies and sacrifices young virgins who deserves to be burned at the stake.

I was only pointing out the choice of speaker could easily stir up that old image of a rabble-rousing black guy who was, gasp, trying to change the system! Ask any average joe on the street their opinion of Malcom X and you won't get a nice response.

Be careful of what you say, for some of it may be unfounded accusation.

I didn't say ANY of what you are shoving in my mouth. Considering that it looks like you didn't even read what I said, I'm debating if I should even respond to you. Read my post AGAIN, THEN respond. Also, it is nice if our marches inspire people to join our cause. That is another thing that they do is inspire. It is hard to inspire if you do things that run counter to what is considered the "norm". And as far as middle America, I live in Republican Southern California. I don't think I need to elaborate on that.

Read my response to your post again, then respond to this one. I'm not going to both to say anything to you until you do that, because I did NOT say what you say that I did.

For clarifying what you were responding to. The way you said what you posted in response to my clarification seemed to indicate that you were
1.) ignoring most or nearly all of what I said
2.) shoving words in my mouth
and
3.) accusing me of being a racist pig

If you want to try to pull number three on me, go right ahead. I'll flame your ass all the way to the depths of the Pit and back if you dare.

What I was saying is that if you are Black and Muslim, be CAREFUL in what you say and HOW you say it. When you grow up in a place like southern California, you get a good idea what people can be like at their most base level. If you want to stand up and preach about REVOLUTION and declare yourself to be black and Muslim, go right ahead, but don't rain on my parade in the process or drag anyone else down with you, because I can guaruntee that will piss SOMEBODY off and get something nasty stirred up, and would be likely to piss off someone who would be able to get enough people to agree with them. Please take careful note that I NEVER said that Black Muslims should not speak at an anti-war rally. I never did. What I have been saying and implying is that kind of thing is far out of the norm, and if you choose to do that be CAREFUL in what you say, not as far out as I am, but when you are on the outside looking in, you can get a pretty nice view of the glass house that society has built itself.

Oh, I hope you're not dissapointed in the fact that I have no big fancy letters to back up my statements with, just experience and common sense. Having seen human nature during some of its best and worst times, it is EASY to see how people react to what they consider to be "abnormal." If you want some nice examples of that, look at Columbine. The mainstream was too damn busy blaiming the kids who shot up the place rather than askin why they did it. If you want otehr examples, I can tell you how many people have said I will "burn in hell" or "should be burned at the stake like the heathen that you are", although I'm not sure on the exact numbers. It is the way American society works, and has worked for a long time. America lands on what it thinks of as "not normal" with both feet. It has done so consistently throughout this country's history. Scapegoating and bigotry are, sadly, normal in this nation. Anything that falls outside of what society defines for itself as the norm, namely anything not of the MAJORITY it falls on like a load of bricks if it ever perceives that minority to be threatening, nevermind if it is not a threat to the majority. Anyone who has read news articles from the past three to five years and studied history could tell you that.

Now if you don't like that I won't be responding to anymore of your posts tonight, I apologize. I'm having a hard time keeping my eyes open, so I'm going to take a hint and get some sleep.

Consdiering that you like saying things that I didn't say, I will simply refrain from speaking to you. Maybe you'll be the first for me to ignore. And no, it has NOTHING to do with your race. It has EVERYTHING to do with you shoving words in my mouth and you implying that I am a racist pig. I find that rude and disrespectful, so thus, I am now putting you on my ignore list. You hsould be impressed, you are the first person I have done so to. I will leave you with one last statement:

If you want to ignore history and ignore how nasty things get for minorities of ALL kinds, that is YOUR perogative. I personally believe in LIVING to fight another day, not going down in flames because of something I said.

I suspect a bit of that is to expose new people to these issues because they are certain the corporate news media and the establishment politicians won't cover them, or will just continue getting it wrong anyway. Not the best way of getting the awareness raised, but using what opportunities that are open.

As a matter of fact, the diverse ANSWER coalition is, in fact, grassroots. Check out Tinoire's post above for a listing of the very wide range of organizations involved with them:--
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=602462&mesg_id=602936&page=

The part about Malcolm appears as silly (the intent may be different than appearance), but the other response replies better than I can.

In the matter of Malcom X. Read the response I put to the other post, then learn NOT to accuse and learn to READ THE WHOLE THING, maybe take into account the tone. I hope you know how to do that anyway, your response implies that you don't.

As far as raising awareness on issues, there are better times and places for that. It is that simple.

As far as raising awareness on issues, there are better times and places for that. It is that simple.

I agree with that, but I suspect their intent is as I assumed above.

Were both assembles by United for Peace and Justice. I personally think that the UPJ hsould get more credit than they have been, they got a bunch together in February and March and organized a bunch of smaller ones across this country. They seriously need some help to eclipse ANSWER, they are more representative of the movement than ANSWER is.

wigged out about us commie pinkos perhaps you should get off your whiney asses and take charge then.

Adversity makes strange bedfellows. I'm talking about all the low-watt bulbs that are WATCHING the march. THEY are the ones we have to convince, not eachother.

Go figure :shrug:

ANSWER must be doing something right! Must be shaking the Coporate Elite up pretty bad for this sudden smear campaign on all the Left-leaning sites.

Ah yes... ANSWER is against the war which shakes up the Republicans and against the occupation which shakes up the Democrats. Of course what shakes up both parties is the appalling site of workers rising up at the same time and rumbing about their rights. The ILWU is in full force at these rallies... Scary, scary for the CE.

Of course it's a mute point now because UPJ has been teaming up with ANSWER lately. Not to disparage UPJ but their marches were not as inspiring or as passionate yet they're made up of the same organizations, to include the Communist Party- the only difference is that Muslims and Arabs are notably missing from their list http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=1757 . I'll stick faithfully to ANSWER because they totally speak to my views which encompass standing with my Muslim brothers and sisters against injustice.

That UPJ rallies are so small and ANSWER ones are so big is because UPJ does rallies EVERYWHERE, so they are small by definition because they just draw on the devoted locals, whereas ANSWER buses in people from all over the place, which also puts a drain on UPJ rallies because that is less local people that would go to UPJ rallies that are off in SF or DC. That is threason ANSWER gets big ones is because they draw off of everyone they can for a few big marches rather than showing discontent EVERYWHERE! If we had all the people from SD county that went up to SF, then we would have had 1-5 thousand marching in downtown SD, not 300.

But they ORGANIZED the busing in question. They didn't pay for it, but they provided the means to do it.

Then why is it that UPJ provides listings for LOCAL marches while ANSWER makes a big procution about busing people to SF and DC? If that isn't busing I don't know what is. That and on the UPJ site for the events on the 25th of this month, they made no reference or mention of organizing busing to any events. They just listed local events that they were involved in.

of ANSWER pushing thier agenda at rallies... just wondering.

I said that they used the publicity given to the rallies to advance their agendas, I never said that they used them to PUSH them. I see those as being different, where pushing is where you force your agenda onto someone else, while advancing it is doing something that helps it in the short and long run. I never said anything about pushing their agenda.

LEMME SEE IT!!! IVE BEEN THERE 6 TIMES!!! WHAT FUCKING AGENDA???

The agenda of co-ordinating groups who share similar feelings?

So if the Democrats have the gun enthusiasts and 2nd Amendment types speak at their convention, I should simply boycott?

You are ignoring the fact that they organize the means to acquire the transportation to get the people there. And by doing so and hyping their marches as being huge, they draw people away from local marches where, in my opinion, it would do the most good. There is ALWAYS something happening in SF and DC. That is no surprise. Now if I saw a march against the war of appreciable size, let's say 5 thousand, in Chicago, or LA, or New York, or San Diego, or Atlanta, or Seattle, and those all happened in all those places at the same time, that I think would send a message that AMERICA doesn't like the war, not JUST those who have the free time to get to SF or DC to march.

But I digress.

If you ever read the e-mails they send out to get the rides together, they make it clear that they are organizing to hire a bus via donations that the people who want the ride are paying. I THINK that is called ORGANIZING BUSING!!!

"You're joking right? You do understand the difference... you do right?! OMIGAWWWD, you don't?!!"

And by the way, that kind of arrogant condescending statement is something I would consider below the belt and unneeded, not to mention just plain rude and discourteous. I guess you can't argue with facts if you have to resort to something that is akin to name-calling. Not that I am accusing you of that, just making a simple statement of fact. Oh, and if you intend to TRY to refute my posts, READ THEM FIRST, then RESPOND IN AN INTELLIGENT AND COURTEOUS FASHION!!! Rudeness in civil and intelligent discourse is something that is commonplace on Free Republic, and should not be here, as I would assume that you are an educated and intelligent individual based on your posts on other subjects.

Lol... Ask any DUer who knows me... I talk to everybody and anybody- the idea that anything other than a token number of people was bussed in is ludicrous. The majority of the protestors are local and after a couple of years we start to recognize so many of each other. You run into more and more people you know all day and start recognizing the various groups. I haven't once met anyone who was bussed in... True- there are 10s of thousands I didn't talk to but I would think that as much as I talk and run around, I, and others like me, would have met at least a few.

Your ideal of having a few thousand here, a few thousand there is a noble one and would be most effective. Why don't you get with a local group and organize something? People are angry and they will come but you need to wake up an awful lot of tired people too. It's not easy.

In my home town, people busted their butts to put together local coalitions and do anti-war organizing and education at the grass roots level. These ANSWER people (all two or three of them, as far as I can tell, and all of them with the WWP) just showed up for meetings and events. Then they organize the buses for the national marches, and all of these grass roots people get on the buses. But there is a lot of work done at the local level that ANSWER / WWP had no input in whatsoever.

These people deserve credit! It doesn't take that much to reserve a bunch of buses and send out a whole bunch of e-mails - we did that at my college.

People do everyday work like putting together leaflets and planning events, going out into their communities .... and all you see are people kissing ANSWER's ass!

For the record, I voted YES. I will and have gone to ANSWER-sponsored marches. It's the behind-the-scenes stuff that REALLY bothers me. And people call ME armchair?!?

I don't understand your point especially since they've been teaming up recently.

In another question, why do you think all those people inconvenienced themselves and went up to San Francisco?

2 years ago I remember standing on a San Francisco intersection with just a handful of people holding some pathetic "Christians for Palestine" sign. It didn't matter that there were more people at an ANSWER protest in Paris holding up better, bigger signs. Let it go... Focus on energizing your friends... That's what we've been doing up here and it works wonders.

We have big ANSWER marches and little independent unnamed marches. On any given day in Silicon Valley, you will see dedicated small groups of people hanging out on street corners protesting- not worried that in San Francisco the groups are larger and more organized.

Bush, his friends, and the international community need to see big marches. 10 people hanging at every other street corner is unfortunately not news- tens of thousands converging to protest is.

How representative is that especially when we're talking about a war against them? UPJ is a fine organization but only representative to a certain segment of the population- kind of like one of those old time clubs where token minorities were invited to come entertain or speak without being represented in the organization. It's sad that so many unconsciously gravitate to that. I've been to organizations organized by both and it wasn't until tonight that I realized why I felt, at the time, that UPJ was lacking something.

A very good movement like I said but it's missing part of the anti-war soul and it isn't international.

I don't listen to right-wing limbot attempts to portray all protesters a commies and I don't think that most murkans do either. Let the hysterical right scream all they want about whatever they want. If you want to protest, go protest.

Fuck all the whining, hysterical, tight-ass, right-wing, fundy, douchebags. Let them scream.

I love this country and that is why I want to march. I can't march with someone who says that I should actively support the people that are shooting at our troops. I want the troops out alive, not dead.

I'll go to your protest, too!

BTW, I was there all day and didn't here one speaker or see one sign that we should actively support those killing the troops. Where the hell did you get that one?

I guess someone should have told the father I spoke with who was carrying a sign with photographs of his two sons who are serving in Iraq. I bet he didn't realize we were actually advocating the death of his sons. In fact, he told me he was overwhelmed by the show of support he received that day.

BWAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

sorry...yeah, I don't think that would happen

Namely: No, I supported the war. This would have separated those who generally support the anit-war movement but have problems with ANSWER from those who simply don't support it.

Of course, my vote was Yes.

I just plumb overlooked that! :shrug:

and I've had the distinct, discouraging impression, for some time now, that we have many new posters who supported the war.

By the way it was good seeing you Saturday and will see you on the 2nd!

Peace :)

Next one in California...if...I'm there...

because DK representation is huge but I will pump you up and tell you that Dean representation was the second most visible and very sincere people too. PM me if/when you do come. We have several Dean supporters in our group (not me though) and we'd all love to meet you!

Did You?

Edit}Hitler outlawed organized labor once!

Fix a protest rally yourself or kindly stfu

To argue that one would not participate in an antiwar rally solely on the basis of the organizers is a total copout, and denotes a certain element of historical ignorance. Many of the social advances in our society such as women's rights, desegregation, and labor movement have their origins in anarchist and socialist politics. It was not the Democrats that marched for women's rights, or for integration, or for the right to form a union. It was a coalition of progressives, feminists, anarchists, socialist, communists, and enlightened people of faith that made all of that possible.

The answer to our nation's ills have never been found within the 2-party system, but outside of it. It is only through mass action and radicalization of the masses that the 2-party system has responded, often in order to prevent further calls for social and economic change.

So the next time there is an antiwar march, ask not who is behind it, but ask why are some people making an issue out of it. You may then find out, as I did years ago, that those that oppose integration and peace are often the ones smearing organizers of those very popular movements.

On the larger issue, many of us have voted for Democratic candidates despite the fact that there is little of "democratic" in the Democratic Party. As David North wrote in an essay recently:

There has never been a golden age in American politics. The last genuinely and indisputably honorable administration in the history of the United States, wholly and unequivocally devoted to the highest democratic ideals, was that of Abraham Lincoln.

<snip>

As an ever-greater percentage of the nation’s wealth is concentrated in an ever smaller percentage of the population, the ruling elites are unable to generate any genuine mass support for the policies of the state. As the coincidence between the interests of the oligarchy that controls the state and the broad mass of the people becomes increasingly tenuous, lies play a critical role in the daily manipulation of popular consciousness and the concoction of what is palmed off in the media as “public opinion.” Temporary and short-term successes may be achieved on this basis. But the longer-term result of this daily process of manipulation and deception is the irreparable alienation of the people from official politics.

War, oligarchy and the political lie
By David North
7 May 2003

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/may2003/war-m07.shtml

Excellent post! Thank you my friend!

I helped out with a lot of things.

Mostly "dirty work" that coalition stars don't do. I worked my butt off, only to see people stop coming to meetings because sectarians wanted to waste four hours picking apart the language on a flyer.

One woman worked for an entire week on an educational leaflet that was beautiful, but it didn't meet extremist sectarian standards, so they spent four hours debating it, then flooded the meeting with their own people, voted it down, and that woman's hard work all went down the toilet. Then they wrote their own sectarian-influenced leaflet.

Sectarians have wrecked about five groups that I have joined. They try to control the language, the art, the music, the events.

So you can just STFU.

were those 2 or 3 who showed up some of the people who fought this woman's flyer?

There are people like that in EVERY group.

....and the woman who was attacked was from CPUSA, but was more than willing to work with the Greens, peace & justice groups, church groups, etc.

Not the sectarians, who refused to even endorse a statement mourning the people who died on 9/11.

If there are people "like that" in every group, then why are they all sectarians? I have never had any problem working with Greens, anarchists, Quakers, pacifists, even CPUSA (who don't much like the fringe Marxist cults). The sectarian groups practice something called "democratic centralism", where they vote on a party line in private, and agree to uphold that in public. They then try to dominate coalitions and other groups in accordance with their party line.

The problem is that ANSWER simply puts a call out and gets other people to "endorse" their rally. They don't really do all that much - there are only 300 of them in the whole country. I think they have a lot of money, too - unlike a lot of community activists. But people around here give ANSWER all of the credit and have the nerve to call grassroots activists "armchair" people.

but they were the ones who co-ordinated some of the big marches, so it's hard to lambaste them for that.

Also, I'm trying to understand...so you're saying all the ANSWER people are sectarian?

A.N.S.W.E.R. = IAC = WWP

The people who obtain the permits and announce the marches are all WWP.

It is not a democratic and open "coalition" formed by different groups coming together.

The A.N.S.W.E.R. office is the same as the IAC office. All they do is get permits and publicize their marches.

They are exceptional organizers and all the dealings I've ever had with them on a personal have been positive, but their strategies suck when it comes to galvinizing and connecting with the masses...in the US.
In Europe it would be nothing, diverse parties are represented and while I was in Greece, I saw massive protests led by red banners and old reds carrying around pictures of Marx. That scares people in this country, they have been indoctrinated and conditioned against it, so it is a political liability to broadcast the symbols and buzz words that keep folks from seeing the issues clearly.

I saw an interview with the founder of "In these Times", where he recommended ignoring labels as an effective strategy--to intervene politically when the occasion to do so arises at any point of the spectrum, and not cleave to labels as the only harbor to put ideAs into action. Good practical advice.

"I don't like rallies"

it makes the anti-war stance look like a gathering of radicals and thus make the anti-war stance appear radical to the average American voter. We need to show current foreign policy is the thing that is radical and get that message through to the people.

oh well. yawn.

it takes the commitment of radicals to travel the distance and put in the time and effort to stage one of these things. If it had a watered down centrist theme to appeal to whomever these people are you dont want to offend you would get turn outs like the freepers get for their events.

You've got to get through to the average voter to get influence. I'm a realist.

THAT'll get the Democrats motivated! :eyes:

would I be out there supporting them. No, I'd rather try something to move the debate forward. Brains beats emotion. The average voter doesn't pay attention to "Worker's Party" or other such organizations. Besides, its my answer to the question. It doesn't have less value.

no vanilla centrism possible there. We already saw what the Centrists did with that radical idea- they watered it down so much it looked a hell of a lot like endorsing/enabling war.

Nope, gonna go with the radicals on this one. Just like in the 60s where it was the only thing that worked.

Politeness and talk, talk, talk is what got us Bush and a conceded election.

interesting concept. Radical left groups can get together and rally against the war (I have no problem with that). They just have problems sticking with the anti-war theme, they are also anti-business, support enemies of my country, support state run economies, etc. and bring them up at an anti-war rally and try to always connect the things they are against as to why the war exists. So, living in a free country, I prefer to address the general public, which doesn't agree with these polarising causes themselves, in a different way than these protests which just come accross as disjointed anti-Americanism.

I do care who organizes the marches. On balance, ANSWER's organizational achievements outweigh the damage they do to the cause by cowtowing to groups who's positions may turn off large blocks of potential anti-war people.

But I don't want to be associated with A.N.S.W.E.R or communists or any of the fanatical pro-Palestianian nutcases. I saw a lot of these types of people at the protests here in Seattle right before the war started, and I was really uncomfortable around them. I really don't think these protests accomplish much anyway, unless you call disrupting traffic an accomplishment.