Californians - I need a reality check here

First of all, my prayers and deepest sympathy go out to all of you who have suffered losses due to the fires. My wife and I learned that our maid of honor and her husband lost their house on Monday night. This is truly a terrible time for so many who have lost so much.

I was on the phone last night with my mom in San Diego (she is, thankfully, not in the danger zone at present). Mom is a devoted rethug, but also an atheist who hates the Christian right and thinks Rush is a gasbag. So she didn't get the following story from Rush. What she claims she heard on the news is that there were airplanes loaded with fire retardant chemicals ready to fly on the first day of the fire, and that Gray Davis deliberately grounded them in San Diego county and let the fire burn. Supposedly she has heard that he did this because he wanted revenge on San Diego county, which voted decisively for his removal. Mom's comment was, "This is what your wonderful Democrats do."

Anyone out there have ANY idea where she got this insane "news" story? Could anyone in CA, not matter how much they dislike Davis, think him capable of such an amoral act? I mean, if this could be proven, wouldn't he be facing manslaughter or criminal negligence charges?

That's the worst thing that ANYONE could ever do. I will try to find out what went wrong, but it looks like the worst Republican scam I have EVER seen in my life.

If it is true, then shame on Davis. But I really don't like the smell of it.

If the planes didn't fly it's because it wasn't safe for them to do so. Davis has been on top of this situation from the beginning and these stories about him draggin his feet regarding the firefighting are just parting shots at him, IMO.

can now raise taxes....he got his prophetized "natrual disaster"....arnold said, "i will not promise to not raise taxes because who knows what could happen in the future like a natural disaster earthquake or fire"...well folks he cursed us with his own words(wish)!...

toss that one back at your mother for a chew

...early on in the fire they had fixed-wing planes ready to go but couldn't use them because of the strong Santa Ana winds.

Hindsight is 20/20 maybe Davis was too busy teaching Arnold English.

That's exactly the kind of statement made by right-wing talk radio hosts.

Since Reagan et al eliminated the fairness doctrine, I've been hearing more and more of these kinds of statements.

The republicans own talk radio and will say anything to advance their agenda.

Republican minds are sick.

They think the worst of humanity with no proof other than rage induced hysteria. I don't believe 9-11 was a BushCo product, does she?

In a time of crisis the first reaction is to help each other. For most Californians that is...

...you'll have to ask her exactly where she heard this from.
Google-ing on "davis fires grounded" (and picking out the ones about this fire) only mention high, gusty winds and poor visibility grounding the planes.
(e.g. http://www.disasterresponse.net/news/news.php?articleid=2066
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/news/state/7113803.htm
http://www.kiplinger.com/news/XmlStoryResult.php?storyid=200310281490.3_47ff00700fd984c9)

Sounds like she heard (not necessarily first-hand) some spiteful wingnut projecting Republican tactics onto Democrats -- again.
(it seems the elephant covers its own dirt by loudly flinging it at a convenient donkey)

why are you here? What's your point? You know it's not true.

it smells like smoke is being blown up some arses actually.

prophetic?...... :evilgrin:

Why do you have a problem with me being here?

If you actually read my original post, you would see that I termed this an "insane" allegation. I assume it came from an "insane" source. I am trying to identify the source.

My mom is not insane, merely republican. She is 81, she does not own a computer and therefore does not research issues on the internet. She also doesn't make shit like this up. She heard it from somewhere.

I posted this because DU has many members from CA who are plugged into the media there. I left CA six years ago, and here in RI I am unable to tap into the media to which people on the left coast are exposed. I work extraordinarily long hours, and am allowed limited internet access at work. At home I have better things to do than google. So I came here for help. It's easier for me to engage in a conversation that might set mom straight if I can at least identify the source of her story.

Sorry if this upsets you.

every thing they hear and have a knee jerk reaction. in the l.a. times it states that the reason for the delay was due to overlapping responsibilites, local, state and federal and military agencies. It also states due to the weather and heavy smoke it wouldn't be safe. so tell your mom to research first then accuse.

I seriously doubt there is any truth to the story and I'll believe so until I hear some evidence.

Nonethless, I drawback when folks automatic assume the Repubs ALWAYS do evil and Democrats Never do evil. The truth is a little greyer (no pun intended!) than I would care for.

If this turns out the be true, I would be suprised, but its within the realm of possibility.

about? Where on earth do you get that from? What has the Twice Elected Governor Davis ever done to make you think he'd do such a thing?

It's Davis' tripled car tax that everyone was FREAKING out about which eventaully lead to his recall that is FUNDING the fire fighters RIGHT NOW!!! If a repuke were in office there'd be no money to fight these fires at all!!

used, due to topographical features like mountains that would make it too dangerous.

Not Gray Davis. He simply doesn't have the power to ground planes. He can't order them, he can't send them up, he can't keep them on the ground. That's why we have fire teams with expertise in fighting fires. Did the Governor of Colorado direct the firefighting efforts on the Hayman fire? Has she EVER heard of a Governor directing fire crews or equipment from their office? Does it even make sense that the Governor would be allowed that kind of authority over fighting a fire?

I wish we could hold the media criminally responsible for what they say. They've caused so much damage these last few years.

as much damage as the fires and haven't been used in decades. I haven't seen anything on the news about this. I think it's an urban legend frankly that has been trotted out in previous fires.

taht Davis gave such "enormous" raises to the firefighters and now they want us to believe that he ALSO told them to hold off on fighting fires? What amazing bullshit the talk radio idiots try to peddle.

Plus many SD county fire crews were allready dispatched to the San Bernadino co. fire, for that one started a couple of days before the SD blazes. Some of those crews included aircraft.

Did she get a Duncan Hunter newsletter lately?

Davis's wife is fron Santee, one of the affected area in SD county. Would he let his wife's hometown,where her family still resides, burn? Its Gray Davis here, not George W. Bu$h.

Even if planes were able to fly, the fires were burning so hot that any liquid dropped from the air would have evaporated before hitting the ground, rendering it useless.

Folks outside of the area just don't understand that this was a conflagration of epic proportions and there was little that anyone could do to stop it once it got going. As of last night, it was 0% contained as it continues to race East.

The military transport outfitted for fire retardant can not be used unless all the private contract planes are dispatched. They are controlled by a national system, not by the state. bob

This may be where she heard it:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-sandiegooct29,1,5044079.story?coll=la-home-headlines

SAN DIEGO — As fire continued to destroy large portions of San Diego County, the dispute between some local officials and the administration of Gov. Gray Davis intensified Tuesday over why aerial tankers and water-laden helicopters were not available in the first two days of the blaze.

County supervisors fumed that Davis was too slow in authorizing the use of state "air assets" to douse the fire and too timid in seeking federal assistance. Several had pleaded with the governor's staff last weekend to redirect state resources to San Diego and demand help from the federal government and military.

A spokesman for Davis said the supervisors were distorting what he characterized as the governor's long-standing support of fire prevention and fire suppression in Southern California.

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I was under the impression that Davis acted quickly. This is the first time I have heard about this.

I'll bet money it was Faux.

Just like my mother, who thinks that the economy is booming because Faux is all she watches.

That sounds like typical RW roomer-mongering. Could you imagine anyone actually doing that? I can't believe the Repugs are policizing this!!!!

Myth:
Planes were grounded

FACT:

There were NOT trained pilots to fly those planes which could have resulted in greater disaster. Fixed wing planes flying low in prro visibility amongst hills with wind gusts is a recipe for disaster.

MYTH:

Services were withheld

FACT:

Services were deployed in San Bernardino and Pendleton due to sharing local agencies ALWAYS do during severe fire. California has one of the best first response programs in the nation. There were 9 major fires around the state and ALL resources were deployed.

Myth:

Davis didn't respond soon enough.

FACT:

Davis declared a state of emergency in three counties on Friday and that response was not addressed by Bush until early Monday afternoon. Davis ALSO requested LAST APRIL that a state of emergency be declared in SEVERAL counties due to drought, and fire risks...Bush never responded. All of this can be confirmed via the LA Times.

your mother should be aware that there would have been even FEwer local resources had Arnold already repealed the car tax.