Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Loans vs. grants: Why are they so insistent that Iraqi aid be a giveaway?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread		 This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 01:52 AM
Original message
Loans vs. grants: Why are they so insistent that Iraqi aid be a giveaway?
I'm probably not as up on this issue as I should be, but why is the Bush administration so insistent that the Iraqi aid package be an outright gift? I know there were a number of legislators were calling for it to be a loan repaid from oil revenues.

They keep saying that the oil revenues will be used to rebuild the country, yet they insist a loan would be a bad idea. Wouldn't you think the GOP would favor a loan because it is more fiscally conservative.

I know nothing they do ever makes sense, but what am I missing? What are there motives?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 01:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. 87 billion
Why doesn't some clever (D) candidate put together either a health care or economic stimulus package to cost exactly 87 billion? That would be a clever reminder of the contrast between the major party candidates on how they choose to spend taxpayer money.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. Dean recently noted that his health care plan would cost about $87 billion
…
The debate has touched the presidential contest, as well. Democratic candidate Howard Dean recently noted that his health care plan would cost about $87 billion, "which happens to be almost exactly the amount the president . . . asked to wage war in Iraq for another year." Given a choice, he said, Americans would choose "health insurance that nobody can take away."
…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A49354-2003Sep22
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lcordero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. This is probably one of the few times that I actually have to
Edited on Fri Oct-31-03 02:00 AM by lcordero
agree with them.
We broke it and we should be paying for it. They didn't ask us to come into their country in the first place.
The "loan" issue is a stupid issue because it will do nothing but fuel Iraqi anger and it will seem like more bullying to them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iamtechus Donating Member (868 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 02:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. For there to be a loan there must be a borrower
Since Iraq has no government of its own, who would the borrower be?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
4. Pure, unadulterated corruption
Really, it's breathtaking. The money is a giveaway to their contributors which will be funneled through the CPA which has no Congressional oversight. A perfect Republican money laundering scheme.

Want to read something that should piss every American off?

From the Center of American Progress's Daily Progress Report...I suggest signing up for their daily e-mail (www.americanprogress.com):

The White House is simultaneously subsidizing corporations like Halliburton to provide "hazardous service" bonuses of up to $900-per-day to their employees operating in Iraq, while trying to cut the $225-per-month bonus U.S. troops receive for hazardous duty pay.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frank frankly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. bingo, old and in the way
you nailed it, yo!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
6. because it's counterproductive to hamper a new market economy
with huge debt when you NEED it to prosper

I'm on the fence about this issue, but the administrations side at least has a respectable argument
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fabius Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 02:33 AM
Response to Original message
7. The good argument is...
...that we want other governments to forgive Saddam's debts, so we should forgive ours too. OK so far, they'll never climb out of the hole with a huge foreign debt.

The cynic just sees a subterfuge so that we can pretend we were not in it for the oil and can use public money to pay off a bunch of BFEE corporate friends.

"Reconstruction" would cost less than half as much if it was publicly bid to any company, including EU and Iraqi instead of Bechtel and Halliburton.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Yes, I'm in the cynic column for sure.
I'd like to believe that we had altruistic reasons (rightfully so) to pay for the mess we created. But the set-up for siphoning our money to the Republican Corporate Party is a little too transparent.

Why not COngressional oversight? Why not funnel it through the UN?
We know why......
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dfong63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 02:43 AM
Response to Original message
8. my guess: a loan would require more documentation,
... more traceability. i expect the money to disappear, somehow. it'd be harder for it to disappear if it were a loan.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
berry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. That sounds right. Also, if it's a loan, Iraqis might demand (more
than now) a say in how it's spent. BushCo wants to be sure everything is privatized before they leave (if ever). I doubt that a democratic Iraq would choose to do what Bremer and crew are doing.

BTW, on another thread someone said in passing that Bremer was a Bush cousin. True? Significant?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. d if I recall they are trying to find out where the first pile went.
Us tax payers are just letting the Bush and Co People raid the tax payers money and I think it is a shame. I am not so sure we should fix what we broke in Iraq. How many died in Vietnam and how much money was put in that poor country? They sure have done better with out us.It did leave us all this . We can bring flowers to 59ooo young Americans and they can bring flowers to 2Million we killed over there.War leaves so many nice things to recall.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
11. Because the money isn't going to the Iraqi people....
It's going directly into the Halliburton bank account - a big "gift" to Cheney's friends - courtesy of the American taxpayer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 05:16 AM
Response to Original message
14. Accountability
In order for Iraq to repay the money, they would need to have an accurate accounting of where the funds went. But with grants, all you hear is that great sucking sound as Halliburton hoovers all of our tax dollars.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
15. Thanks!
Posters echoed my suspicions. Sometimes I just need reassurance that my tinfoil hat isn't on too tight. :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC