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Master Gracey Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-03 08:36 PM
Original message
Argument with neocon - need links to Wilson articles
I'm in a heated debate with a neocon who's trying to convince everyone that I'm totally lying about the whole Wilson affair. I'd like to reply with a huge bombardment of links to articles, but that'd take awhile to drum up and everyone will be gone by that time. So I'm pleading with you good people to help me make these potential swing voters on that message board see the light, and then I can expose this neocon for the petty partisan fraud that he is and always has been.

Thanks in advance!

:toast:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-03 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. some links
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-03 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. nation, time, newsday

http://thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=823

"The sources for Novak's assertion about Wilson's wife appear to be "two senior administration officials." If so, a pair of top Bush officials told a reporter the name of a CIA operative who apparently has worked under what's known as "nonofficial cover" and who has had the dicey and difficult mission of tracking parties trying to buy or sell weapons of mass destruction or WMD material. If Wilson's wife is such a person--and the CIA is unlikely to have many employees like her--her career has been destroyed by the Bush administration. (Assuming she did not tell friends and family about her real job, these Bush officials have also damaged her personal life.) Without acknowledging whether she is a deep-cover CIA employee, Wilson says, "Naming her this way would have compromised every operation, every relationship, every network with which she had been associated in her entire career. This is the stuff of Kim Philby and Aldrich Ames." If she is not a CIA employee and Novak is reporting accurately, then the White House has wrongly branded a woman known to friends as an energy analyst for a private firm as a CIA officer. That would not likely do her much good.
This is not only a possible breach of national security; it is a potential violation of law. Under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982, it is a crime for anyone who has access to classified information to disclose intentionally information identifying a covert agent. The punishment for such an offense is a fine of up to $50,000 and/or up to ten years in prison. Journalists are protected from prosecution, unless they engage in a "pattern of activities" to name agents in order to impair US intelligence activities. So Novak need not worry."



A War on Wilson?
Inside the Bush Administration's feud with the diplomat who poured cold water on the Iraq-uranium connection 
By MATTHEW COOPER, MASSIMO CALABRESI AND JOHN F. DICKERSON

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,465270,00.html



Thursday, Jul. 17, 2003
Has the Bush Administration declared war on a former ambassador who conducted a fact-finding mission to probe possible Iraqi interest in African uranium? Perhaps.

Former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson raised the Administration's ire with an op-ed piece in The New York Times on July 6 saying that the Administration had "twisted" intelligence to "exaggerate" the Iraqi threat. Since then Administration officials have taken public and private whacks at Wilson, charging that his 2002 report, made at the behest of U.S. intelligence, was faulty and that his mission was a scheme cooked up by mid-level operatives. George Tenet, the director of the Central Intelligence Agency, took a shot at Wilson last week as did ex-White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer. Both contended that Wilson's report on an alleged Iraqi effort to purchase uranium from Niger, far from undermining the president's claim in his State of the Union address that Iraq sought uranium in Africa, as Wilson had said, actually strengthened it. And some government officials have noted to TIME in interviews, (as well as to syndicated columnist Robert Novak) that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, is a CIA official who monitors the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. These officials have suggested that she was involved in her husband's being dispatched Niger to investigate reports that Saddam Hussein's government had sought to purchase large quantities of uranium ore, sometimes referred to as yellow cake, which is used to build nuclear devices.

In an interview with TIME, Wilson, who served as an ambassador to Gabon and as a senior American diplomat in Baghdad under the current president's father, angrily said that his wife had nothing to do with his trip to Africa. "That is bulls__t. That is absolutely not the case," Wilson told TIME. "I met with between six and eight analysts and operators from CIA and elsewhere . None of the people in that meeting did I know, and they took the decision to send me. This is a smear job."

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uscia223383072jul22,0,1332639.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines


Wilson and a retired CIA official said yesterday that the "senior administration officials" who named Plame had, if their description of her employment was accurate, violated the law and may have endangered her career and possibly the lives of her contacts in foreign countries. Plame could not be reached for comment.
"When it gets to the point of an administration official acting to do career damage, and possibly actually endanger someone, that's mean, that's petty, it's irresponsible, and it ought to be sanctioned," said Frank Anderson, former CIA Near East Division chief.
A current intelligence official said that blowing the cover of an undercover officer could affect the officer's future assignments and put them and everyone they dealt with overseas in the past at risk.
"If what the two senior administration officials said is true," Wilson said, "they will have compromised an entire career of networks, relationships and operations." What's more, it would mean that "this White House has taken an asset out of the" weapons of mass destruction fight, "not to mention putting at risk any contacts she might have had where the services are hostile."
Deputy White House Press Secretary Claire Buchan referred questions to a National Security Council spokesman who did not return phone calls last night.
"This might be seen as a smear on me and my reputation," Wilson said, "but what it really is is an attempt to keep anybody else from coming forward" to reveal similar intelligence lapses.
Novak, in an interview, said his sources had come to him with the information. "I didn't dig it out, it was given to me," he said. "They thought it was significant, they gave me the name and I used it."

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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-03 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Time Magazine
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,465270,00.html

(snip)
And some government officials have noted to TIME in interviews, (as well as to syndicated columnist Robert Novak) that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, is a CIA official who monitors the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.
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Master Gracey Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-03 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. THANKS!!!
You're all awesome... thanks a bunch! I've thought long and hard about leaving that message board because it has two hardcore neocon nutzoids, a bunch of right-leaning moderates, and no progressives. But then I think that if I can convince just ONE person to vote Democrat, then I've done my part. And you're all helping substantially. I got a favorable response when I posted about the Halliburton-Iraq contracts a few months ago, and I'm hoping this story will create a few new Dems.

:toast:
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foo_bar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-03 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. what exactly is a neocon?
don't you have to be at least 40 to become a born-againer?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-03 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
foo_bar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-03 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Circulus in Probando
what exactly is a neocon?
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-03 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. things to search
hi.

you can search this site and goggle for words such as Project for a New American Century (PNAC), or Office of Special Projects (OSP).

The PNAC site had an overview of their ideas.

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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-03 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. Senator calls it illegal and requests investigation-
U.S. senator calls for probe into White House tactics over Iraq intelligence

WASHINGTON (CP) - Efforts by White House officials to intimidate those who questioned intelligence used to justify invading Iraq could be illegal and must be investigated, U.S. Senator Dick Durbin said Tuesday.

Durbin demanded a Senate committee find out whether the U.S. administration illegally revealed the wife of former U.S. ambassador to Iraq Joseph Wilson works as a CIA operative. Wilson, who disputed claims Iraq was trying to buy nuclear material from Africa, said angry officials made public his wife's name and occupation.

"It's not only unacceptable, it may be criminal," said Durbin.

"That's about as serious as it gets in this town."

Durbin sits on the Senate intelligence committee holding closed hearings on whether officials overhyped Iraq's weapons capabilities to support the U.S.-led invasion.

He urged his colleagues to determine the extent of the administration's exaggerations.

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/030722/w0722110.html

This is latest- Canadian because our own press sometimes...hesitates?

Welcome to DU :hi: Tear 'em up!
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-03 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. Knock yourself out.
Edited on Tue Jul-22-03 09:28 PM by Tinoire
:hi: This is all I have but if you go on Google News and do a search on Joseph Wilson, you should find a ton more! Peace

Who's unpatriotic now? (International Herald Tribune/NYT) Jul 23rd 2003
http://www.iht.com/articles/103675.html

Columnist Blows CIA Agent's Cover Jul 22nd 2003
http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/ny-uscia223383072jul22,0,2375457.story?coll=ny-news-print

White House striking back? July 21 2003
http://www.msnbc.com/news/942095.asp?0cv=CA01

"A White House Smear" Jul 16th 2003
http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=823
http://thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=823

A Question Of Trust (Time Magazine) Jul 13th 2003
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030721-464405,00.html

Diplomat who blew the whistle on falsified evidence Jul 08th 2003
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=422942

Prober red hot over Bush's Iraq uranium 'lies' Jul 07th 2003
http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/2489.htm

Ex-Envoy: U.S. Twisted Iraq Intelligence Jul 07th 2003
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030707/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_iraq_intelligence_5

Britain 'knew uranium claims were false' Jul 06th 2003
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/media/story/0,12123,993017,00.html


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Master Gracey Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-03 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. You're lifesavers!
I can't thank all of you enough for replying! I'm going over now and making my huge post... everything you all gave me should be enough to turn some heads and raise some eyebrows!

Oddly enough, the one neocon I'm in the argument with is the one who posted the link to this website, which is what brought me here in first place a few days ago. Only he was telling everyone to go come over here and "laugh at the commies." With that kind of endorsement from him, I knew this site was going to be good, so I signed up for the companionship of like-minds. I'm loving every minute.

Thanks!!!

:toast:
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-03 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. welcome to DU
funny about the neo-con. Tell him Ron Paul (R-TX) calls neo-cons "Troskyites" because of some of their policies.

wonder if the person defending them is aware of their economic policies?

blue dog dems are more conservative than neo-cons as far as deficits go, so laugh all they want, and pay for Bush's follies with his taxes and lost services and with the burdens placed on his children.

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