Are Democratic centrists allowed to post here?

I'm getting the sense that DU is more left than the rest of the country and some of us that want to revive the party.

How far left do you consider acceptable for DU?

if you can't do that, you're completely unacceptable.

Che, Castro and Chavez can run their people to the limit they can deal with but I will never allow that kind of crap to happen to the US no more than I'll let a far right douchbag ruin us.

Way to go, pal. Just keep alienating the swing voters with your extremist hate speech. We have to act in a more bipartisan manner, right?

?

That's enough to rule him out. Hard work and dedication is better than communism.

CODE STALIN. I repeat: CODE STALIN.

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Least of all communist leaders that think hard work is not to be rewarded by more income and better living.

There will always be lazy people and they should never be allowed to
live the life of the harder worker due to governmental supplements.

If the choice is communist or socialist I'll abstain and fight them to the death.

burn down the slums! nuke the poor!

HAIL FREEDONIA!

They don't work, they don't pay taxes...

</sarcasm>

Now, really...

"Hard work" doesn't matter much if you have bad luck.

Laziness doesn't matter much if you have good luck.

Welcome to the "free" enterprise economy.


You think those people who are unemployed, or lack health insurance, or are homeless, or starve, don't work hard?

Someone please link to DuctapeFatwa's EXCELLENT posts from a while ago...

And spent his last days wandering around South America holding up rural pharmacies for asthma medication. And that after Castro came to power he participated in the extra-judicial executions of political opponents.

We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals.

centerists are noy only allowed but welcomed.

Sure, just follow the rules for posters.

Always interested in varying points of view. It can be very lively in DU.

What is a "double yellow dog" anyway?

I'm interseted in keeping the Democratic party intact. The far left and far right divide is getting out of control and I'm one of the many that want to get the majority back to the center.

... is one who would vote for a yellow dog before they would ever vote for a Republican. I guess you aren't from Texas, then.

Makes you wonder about all those Repubs out there with their adorable yellow labrador dogs, doesn't it? Number 1 dog in the country.

From a Christmas Story, by Jean Shepard.

his WOR broadcasts are making my insomnia significantly more entertaining.

every night at 9Pm on WWOR (when radio was still great and free) when I was suppossed to be asleep. May he rest in peace.

listened to him in bed at night. For years I winbdered what he looked like.

Glad to see there are otehr closet Shepard-philes out there.

supporters here.

We all have very strong opinions...and they're all over the board.

If you're ABB (anybody but Bush) and avoid any threads with "Dean" in the title that have over 100 posts on it, maybe you wont get too scared off.

Welcome to DU!
:toast:

Most of the board supports a centrist candidate. They may be liberals but they are completely open to centrist politicians.

...who calls him/herself a Dem, due to lousy labelling or a real mis-understanding of English, then you probably won't last long.

Benefit of the doubt is always granted though.

What does "Centrist" mean to you?

This thread about "centrists" quickly deteriorated into ignorant comments about Ernesto Guevara. Ho hum.

Silly people...

We're a big tent.

then centrists must be allowed to post.
But what does a centrist believe?

of the DLC self-definition, a centrist is a pro-war, imperialist, pro-corporate, pro-globalization Democrat that is in favor of moving the Democratic party to the "right" of it's traditional roots. The DLC seems to be the definitive engine of the centrist movement that desires to shift the Democratic party toward what have traditionally been Republican party ideals.

Self-proclaimed centrists, who do not identify with the DLC, may define themselves differently, but I haven't discovered what that definition is yet.

Pro-corporate

Armed with poll, DLC states its case for steering party
By Dick Polman
Inquirer Staff Writer

Fearing that antiwar liberals will spoil Democratic prospects in the presidential race, the party's pro-business moderates yesterday brandished a new survey which contends that, in terms of voter loyalty, Democrats are in their worst shape "since the dawn of the New Deal."

Translation: At its annual summer meeting, the centrist Democratic Leadership Council renewed its three-month feud with presidential candidate Howard Dean, the former Vermont governor who has galvanized left-leaning activists with his outspoken attacks on President Bush and Dean's opposition to the war in Iraq.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/nation/6405737.htm

Pro-war imperialists

From New Democrats Online, DLC Blueprint magazine, April 15, 2003:

The first and most important role for the United States is to ensure the safety of the Iraqi people by establishing a security presence throughout the country. At first, this will likely require a presence of as many as 200,000 troops. But within one or two years, that contingent should be replaced by a multinational force of 50,000 to 100,000 troops, including American and foreign forces, preferably acting under a U.N. mandate. The U.S.-led peacekeeping force should ensure that no group or individual can use violence for political advantage. It is a role for which U.S. and European troops are eminently well-qualified, and which they have played successfully in the past.

We should not delude ourselves: Building democracy in Iraq will be difficult and expensive and will take years. But there is no reason that Iraq cannot join the ranks of democratic nations if the United States is willing to take on the burdens of helping Iraq build a democracy, and to create a coalition of other nations willing to help. Moreover, we must remember that our goal in Iraq is not merely to rid the world of the menace of Saddam Hussein, but to bring stability to the Gulf region. If the United States is not committed to building good government in Iraq, we are liable to be simply substituting one set of problems for another. Democracy in Iraq is not just a nice bonus of a war, it is a necessary component of victory.

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=450004&subid=900021&contentid=251480

Pro-globalization

Our enduring purpose is equal opportunity for all, special privilege for none. Our public ethic is mutual responsibility. Our core value is community. Our outlook is global. And our modern means is an empowering government that equips people with the tools they need to get ahead.

New Democrat policies transcend the stale left-right debate and define a Third Way for governing based on progressive ideas, mainstream values, and innovative solutions that reflect changing times. New Democrat ideas that have become law include national service, work-based welfare reform, charter schools, community policing, an expanded earned-income tax credit, and market incentives for environmental protection.

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=86&subid=85&contentid=894

All sorts at DU, just grow a thick skin and follow the basic rules.

How would you do that?

I'm sure it's more complicated than the picture I have in my mind but I have been disgusted with the Democrats in power that have allowed the far left special interest groups to portray us as radicals and un-American. There is no excuse for us to follow the lead of some of the groups that sucked our leaders into following their money and marginal influence into their grip at the expense of decent and hard working people who once voted Democratic and now vote against the Democrats because of the percieved crack down aainst their livelyhoods.

And why you think they are un-American.

The Party, since Clinton, has moved farther and farther from NOW, unions and the other 'special interest groups' and into the arms of corporations and DLC-style...well...corporations. I'd be interested in some evidence of contrary reality from you.

Just as a starter...

enough with the starters, now for the main course.

If your list includes the ACLU or the NAACP, I'm going to start screaming.

Do tell, which groups are these. As a centrist, I want to avoid them at all costs.

I suspect that Labor and teachers are on your hit list, but who else?

This is an interesting statement, too-

"marginal influence into their grip at the expense of decent and hard working people who once voted Democratic and now vote against the Democrats because of the percieved crack down aainst their livelyhoods."

When Clinton was in office (I assume you like Clinton, he was a centrist Democrat, right?).....20MM+ jobs were created during his 8 years as President. Since GWB has been squating at 1600 Pennsylvannia Ave, we've lost 3MM.

Our party leaders have bent over backwards to make themselves more palatable to the right, and have ABANDONED the traditional democratic party base--but NOT to pull the party to the left. You've got it exactly backwards.

As far as the "decent and hard-working people" are concerned, they've been completely brainwashed into thinking that the republicans actually have their best interests at heart, while in fact they're the group getting the most profound screwing-over by this administration.

I think you're confusing actual party philosophy with the bullshit anti-democratic rhetoric spewed by the rightwing for the last 20 years, and that confusion has caused this country immeasurable harm.

Just what, precisely, do you consider "radical" and "un-American?" I'd like a specific answer on that, because if you consider those of us who speak out passionately against the current administration to be radical or un-American, I think you've come to the wrong place.

Liberal is not a dirty word. Liberal is not radical. Liberal is not un-American. Please understand that now.

you may want to consider dropping the code language of the far right, if you want a serious dialouge. decent and hard-working americans who used to vote democratic and don't do so now have been brainwashed into voting against their best interests. it's not the "far left" doing this...it's the far right. if people would be more concerned about their jobs, their children's educations, and their country, and less about who is sleeping with who, who is having an abortion, acquiring as many guns as possible, and scapegoating anyone and everyone rush tells them to...they would be voting democratic. democrats need to break thru the code and to speak clearly... vs. co-opting, triangulating, and adopting the same codespeak of the right. good luck!

Welcome to you. This is a terrific place, and I consider myself just slightly left on center.

I like to think we don't all need to view things through a pinhole and work in lockstep.

Gee, I hope centrists are allowed to post here. <g> That's one reason I started visiting this board. I find that moderate to conservative social democrats have saner ideas regarding the role of the state in providing for the social welfare of its citizenry and the protection of the weak and helpless from the predations of the wealthy, amoral, and well-connected than the faction currently controlling the GOP. I now find that I have more in common with most progressives than I do the reactionaries in control of the Texas Republican Party.

Moreover, I think that liberalism has changed since the seventies. You don't hear about calls for nationalizing the airlines, the railroads, and the energy industry anymore. Progressives give private enterprise a lot more ideological encouragement than they used to, especially since the end of the Cold War and when the shortcomings of Brezhnev state socialism became apparent.

The problem I've found with my fellow centrists and many of the DLC-leaning Democrats is that we're seen by the voters as "Republican lite." And whether I or other centrists like it or not, whenever "Republican lites" run against genuine social-Darwinist, wanna-be theocrat Republican reactionaries, "Republican lites" lose. I'd like to see this change someday, but the better-off part of the electorate isn't politically mature enough to make the distinction.

That "some of us that want to revive the party" bit seems to bode ill.

If you think the party does not need reviving then you must be kidding.

I'm getting the sense that DU is more left than the rest of the country and some of us that want to revive the party.

This means, if I read it correctly, that you think those on the left are opponents of those who "want to revive the party."

like a veiled reference to some sort of a purge of "undesirables". how is making the party more right wing reviving it? how many right wing parties are needed? Some of us like options....

gay,union, senior, I guess I should just let the centrists-GOP LITE etc, cut off my medicare, Ss and retirement benefits and get back in my 50's closet. Oh yeah the war is illegal- Feinstein(CENTRIST)said as much. Do centrists still support the invasion and occupation of Iraq?

...of Che Guevera. And often.

Many forget that the spectrum of Democrats contains everyone from Jimmy Carter and Paul Wellstone to Charlie Stenholm and Sam Nunn.

The board is called DemocraticUnderground, not FarLeftLiberalUnderground, and properly so.

...but none of the NeoDems seem to be able to explain exactly who and what they're talking about. Hell...why not just call us commies like the empty-headed Right?

- And perhaps you've noticed that the board isn't called NeoDem fence sitting underground either?

I don't think there is such a thing as a democratic centrist, while there certainly are Democrat centrists. A democrat centrist would be a mainstream democrat and see signficance to whether or not the rest of the country is left of them, and would think that reviving the party means more of the same, basing one's politics on "catching up to" the right-wing by emulating them.

I think you are generally welcomed by anyone here.

We're about due for an Atlanta gathering. Should I put you on the short list?

I'm afraid you'll like me better in person than my sloppy online persona.

I'll bet we will. PM me, I'll make sure you're invited to the next gathering.

So yeah, I think you can expect a bit more extreme opinions to be posted here. But most of us are also Democrats, which is kind of a centrist concept on its own. I think you will find lively and evben bitter discussions here between centrists and lefties, but that's not what will get your post deleted. You can talk about anything as long as you curb the obscene language and don't indulge in personal attacks aagainst fellow posters.

Personal attacks against the murdering BushCo gang are however encouraged. And rightly so. They have their forum. (the entire world) we have ours (a few little corners of the internet.)

Under the current regime, or anything that tolerates the status quo (which is, in many ways, destructive), we sure as hell won't revive anything.

lobbed as flame bait from posters whose intentions were less than sincere about the real reason for their participation at DU.

Second of all, instead of arguing about platitudes and right, left, center etc, why not express your ideas and see if they can withstand a light being shone on them.

Third, you posted above that special interest groups have taken over the Democratic party which I find ridiculous in light of the HUGE WADS of cash that are governing the Republican party from the banking, pharmaceutical and energy industry for programs that harm Americans.

HOw about exposing your actual ideas and letting that be the true litmus test about your intentions with regard to your participation on DU.

Finally, I would welcome you, but if we are SO FAR LEFT and you are so miserable, it might be premature.

Please note that I am NOT picking on the "newbie," you chose to frame this with a thread that seems to KNOCK us. you GET what you give. That's my policy here and elsewhere in life.

Or I'm due for a banning.

We all need to stick together, centrist, and leftists. Defeating Bush has to be our priority. I am happy to see the re-energized Democratic party under Dean, Clark, whoever feels excited about taking our country back from these right wing extremists.

Dian

...of a thread.

- D'oh!

of that childhood taunt- "I double dog dare ya!"

I'm only kidding! I welcome you to DU. I'm pretty to the center on a lot of issues myself, and I find that DU is a great place to come and know that I'm not insane when I think that our country is headed down the wrong path. One thing is that we don't need another Republican party, we need an opposition party, one which will serve the needs of average Americans. This can only be accomplished by welcoming people with a variety of beliefs and ideals into one big tent of opposition. jmho

good one mate!

Yeah I just joined tonight and already am recieving the wrath of the extreme left.

Everyone loves to say they are the party of JFK but its unacceptable here to actually be as centrist as he was.

you probably deserve more than the "extreme left's" wrath.

This thread was started by a disruptor who has since been banned.

AnnabelLee
DU Moderator

until I read that second part of your post.

"more left than the rest of the country and some of us that want to revive the party."

That's what I call Prime Grade A Flame Bait.

I guess you're welcome anyway, but you could sure benefit from a lesson in manners.