Gays and lesbians made progress under Clinton?

The same Clinton who supported DOMA?

The same Clinton who caved to Sam Nunn and Colin Powell to support Don't Ask Don't Tell?

The same Clinton who supported sodomy laws while governing Arkansas?

You prefer the old days of Ronnie Raygun?

but would it have been any better under a Republican administration? At least it wasn't blown off the face of the Earth by a Republican.

However, I was really sad when Clinton signed DOMA. But it would have been overrriden by Congress since they had enough votes for it. Even Wellstone voted for it.

DOMA, DMCA, "Patriot" Act.

DMCA and 'patriot' act rather surprise me, given their fascist natures.

He did regret voting for DOMA, but if you ask me he regretted it only AFTER he discovered the backlash against him by a faitly sizeable GLBT community. People seemed to think he was a liberal... Maybe he was.

I wonder if he regretted voting for DMCA and 'patriot' act as well.

Why did he vote for them in the first place?!

But, in the end, it's a reminder - how trustworthy are politicians?

Everybody voted for the DMCA: They were victims of misinformation from the entertainment industry. (The fact that Kucinich is close with a lot of them, while Dean is more in favour of cyber liberties is a big deal to me.)

Patriot Act? I dunno...Probably blackmailed.

Regardless of legislation or the lack of it, what Bill Clinton did was start a dialog.

How many openly gay characters did you see in Prime Time network TV before Clinton?

How many openly gay politicians?

Clinton's faux pas with the military was the best thing to happen for gays who wanted to come out, outside of San Francisco, Boston & NYC.

DOMA was a compromise; either that, or a constitutional amendment might have gone though.

Don't Ask Don't Tell was a compromise; either that, or you wouldn't have gays in the military at all.

I don't know about the sodomy laws, but my guess is that if the legislature of Arkansas ever tried to overturn those, he probably would have signed it.

Bill Clinton was the first President to address a gay organization.

He appointed the first openly gay ambassador and the first openly lesbian head of a federal agency.

He signed executive orders banning discrimination based or sexual orientation in federal hiring, adding orientation discrimination to the prohibitions included in Title IX, prohibiting the IRS from discriminating against gays, including orientation as a category under which refugees can ask for asylum, and banning providers of health insurance to federal employees from discriminating against gays.

He used his veto threat to block Congress from banning gays and lesbians in DC from being allowed to adopt.

I did not agree with him on "Don't ask, don't tell" or the Defense of Marriage Act, but on balance, he was by any measure the best President gay Americans ever had.

"Clinton was reponsible for DOMA and DADT, so he was worse than the Republicans."

Of course, 99% of GLBT's have the good sense to see the Log Closet crowd for what they are.

I just said that Clinton wasn't especially great for gays.

Hell, Trudeau did more 25 years before Clinton did anything.

Did you mean Gary Trudeau, who had Mike Slackmeyer and his lover come out? Or did you mean Pierre Trudeau, former Prime Minister of Canada? Last time I checked, Canada was a very different country than the USA. Far less jerk per square mile ratio.

Our population isn't very dense...lol

Trudeau went from life in prison to legalisation almost immediately after being elected.

If the geography weren't so frickin' cold, I'd be one. Eh? Canadians and Kiwis are simply the finest people on this goofy globe.

Yes, GLBT people made progress under Clinton. Clinton signed the executive order that eliminated discrimination based on sexual orientation for all federal workers. Clinton appointed gays and lesbians in his administration...chiefly Roberta Achtenburg as Assistant Secretary of Housing and James Hormel as ambassador to Luxembourg.

More importantly...Clinton listened to us. He met with gay and lesbian activists at the White House. He appointed a White House liasion to the gay community. For the very first time, Clinton made gay and lesbian people feel a real part of the American fabric. Maybe it sounds naive, but Clinton began to ensure that GLBT had a place at the table.

God knows Clinton wasn't perfect. He DID sign DOMA. He did cave in to DADT (I thought it was a big mistake to start with that one. Clinton should have pushed ENDA first).

But, oh my God. He NEVER would have referred to us as "sinners". Unlike the current occupant of the White House.

and Bill Clinton paved the way for it. Yes, the real bows are to be taken by the activists fighting for gay and lesbian causes, but that is how it should be.

Supreme Court Justices Steven Breyer & Ruth Bader Ginsburg - the gifts that keep on giving!