Question for Dean supporters

Why is it every time I bring up the fact that the rebel flag = hate, no one disagrees with this. But then again you defend what Dean said about the rebel flag? we are not right wing conservatives here, you can't have it both ways.

Either you believe the rebel flag = hate or you don't. Admit it Dean screwed up big time!

And for people who say well the rebel flag is part of our history, you are correct, it's a very dark part of our history.

Once again no matter how you try to sell it, the rebel flag = hate and it will always equal hate, and anyone in my opinion who says other wise is just a bigot!

They'll pretend to be inclusive (just like in 2000), and they'll slam Dean for being devisive.

I'm afraid it's a NO WIN situation for the good doctor.

Woops. There goes the black vote.

It would be like when Kennedy went rabid on communisim in 60 campaign to outdo Nixon.

please...just sit back and close your eyes and turn back the hands of time to before Dean mentioned the flag. now run an alternate version of the event in which he says something about NASCAR instead.

go ahead...i know it feels silly but closing your eyes is a good way to focus.

what would we be talking about today?
what would the first 15 minutes of the debate last night focused on?
what would be on the front page and editorials today?

could it possibly be his healthcare plan, which was the subject of the flap in the first place?

now, fast forward about ten or eleven months and, given his admitted tendancy to stick his foot in his mouth, how many news cycles have we lost to worthless, even distructive discussions of "Should Dean Apologize?" More to the point, how many news cycles can we afford to lose to same.

OK.....you can open your eyes now....please, really.........
open your eyes now.

I tried it, but I couldn't read the rest of your post...

At the time they outlawed interracial dating.

I gotta say one thing first though.

The real American flag tolerated Slavery alot longer then the confederate flag.. should it also be a hate flag?

And the more you smear Dean about this the more southern votes hell get

Not the rebel flag. 2nd the majority of people who support the rebel flag would like to see slavery renacted.

what part of hate don't you understand?

But you make a good point, and I agree with you.

But I'd do ALOT to get us a real president

so darned often.

"He takes more vacations than the people on welfare" - Kerry

just in case you didn't know. Now, does that mean Republicans are the real champions of equality and civil rights? Of course not. Were you even aware that the Confederacy was a Democratic brain child? Probably not. You should probably do some studying up on the Civil War before you make assumptions.

And let me tell you something else they know. They know that the modern Republicans are nothing like the party of Abraham Lincoln. Conversely, neither (thankfully) are the Democrats the party of the Ku Klux Klan anymore.

I am a Dean supporter who didn't have access to the debates last night. If he says it's acceptable to hang them from government buildings in the south, then I disagree with him and he blew it, bigtime. I effing hate what that flag represents. He's not going to get the votes from the people who want to plaster that flag all over the south anyway. It's become a symbol of bigotry and the fight to keep slavery--of separation. There's just no getting around this fact.

On edit: I saw a slew of posts on this topic last night, but didn't bite because the usual Dean bashers were having a hey day.

Last night he said he did not need to apologize for his comment, because he was trying to attract Southern Democrats who usually vote GOP.

Here's what he's said in the past -


I intend to talk about race during this election in the South because the Republicans have been talking about it since 1968 in order to divide us. And I'm going to bring us together. Because you know what? You know what? White folks in the South who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals in the back ought to be voting with us and not them, because their kids don't have health insurance either and their kids need better schools too.

what matters is that we're, once again, diverted from the issues by another dumb Deanism.

to quote the Dr. "why do i do stuff like this?"

good question. maybe a better question is when is he going to stop doing things like this.

it's democrats unable to admit the inevitability of Dean the nomination trying desperately to twist each and every thing he says into something that it is not. What we are seeing is Dems using GOP tactics in a vain attempt to bolster their floundering candidates.

"The inevitability of Dean the nomination"? Do you mean that Dean will inevitably receive the nomination? Before a single primary is decided?

Bush* got less than 50%, but he's in office, so I guess Dean and his mighty 18% make his success inevitable.

gee...thanks for telling me. now i can just get used to the fact that bush will be president for another four years.

thanks so much for telling me. now i don't have to worry about voting in the primaries or anything like that....

i can just skip to the part where bush beats us because we spend all our time cleaning up after the Dr. butchers the campaign.

ON EDIT ...adding:

November 03, 2003

A newly released Washington Post-ABC news poll conducted October 26-29 confirms that Kerry polls best among the leading Democrats and is in the strongest position to take on George W. Bush, far outpolling Howard Dean and Wesley Clark.


Kerry....Bush
44%......50% ... -6

Gephardt.Bush
42%......51% . - 9

Clark....Bush
40%......51%...- 11

Dean.....Bush
39%......54%...- 15

show me inevitable...what i see is delusion and denial

To those of us who can see the bigger picture, of course that flag represents racism. But in the South, it is often more complicated than that. For some, it represents a time when Yankees "came down here and told us what to do." Even people who had no slaves didn't like someone from another region of the country telling them what to do, just on principle. Would you like it, regardless of whether your lifestyle was right or wrong? No one likes being told what to do, that part is simple.

Many Southerners are torn: they don't want to defend slavery by any means, but that flag also represents their ancestors who, even if they had no slaves, did what they thought best at the time. Southerners don't like to have their ancestors and history besmirched any more than Northerners or Westerners do. It's a very delicate situation that's impossible to paint with a broad brush of "hate." Many Southerners feel bad about that period in history. Ashamed. Even if their ancestors were in the wrong, it's very hard to see the land you love marched upon and set on fire.

So while I won't defend the flag myself (even though I had several non-slave-owning ancestors who fought for the South), I can see a more complicated picture than just "hate" where that flag is concerned. If we Dems want to take back the South, we have to try to see the complexities, and I honestly think that is what Dean is trying to do. He's a "Yankee" trying to understand The Great Problem, and as a Southerner, I appreciate it. The discussion has to start somewhere.

Being a yankee, I have no understanding of what it means to be a Southerner. I lived in the panhandle for about 6 months many years ago, and there is definitely a different feeling in that area of the country. I found out what people meant when they talk about 'southern hospitality'. I also found that there was bigotry, but the it was the pandering kind: One of my co-workers on another co-worker who took long breaks and goofed off a lot: 'We have to be nice to her and can't say anything about how she won't work because she is black and we'll get sued for discrimination.'

For some, it represents a time when Yankees "came down here and told us what to do." Even people who had no slaves didn't like someone from another region of the country telling them what to do, just on principle. Would you like it, regardless of whether your lifestyle was right or wrong? No one likes being told what to do, that part is simple.

For many, it seems to me that the issue is states' rights. I think the people believe they are both moral and wise, and who is going to tell them they are not? They resent someone in Washington, DC telling them that their children must go to school with black students and they resent someone in Washington, DC telling them that they must hire homosexuals to teach their children. They want the Ten Commandments in their Courthouse and they resent someone in Washington, DC telling them that they can't have it that way, especially when they see Moses represented in the U.S. Supreme Court building. They expect the Federal government to limit itself to only what the Constitution specifically says are the responsibilities of the Federal government and they want the rest of the decision-making to go on in the individual states, even if that means that each state has different rules. They resent being held up as the example of all that is immoral in the world because they had slaves over a hundred years ago, and they insist that some of those slaves even fought for the South and after emancipation they stayed with their "masters" and in fact only a relatively few "masters" even existed who were wealthy enough to own plantations. Most white folks were not much better off than the slaves, so they say.

All these grudges are wrapped up in the Confederate flag... not just the slavery issue. It seems that the South sees its past as an era that was not only moral, but also a lot more polite, genteel, and honorable. At least that's what I hear from Southerners I know. Maybe they are representative or maybe they aren't.

I really don't know if Dean's remarks were a good thing or if he reinforced a stereotype that the South resents... the pickup and the Confederate flag. I do think that some attitudes that exist in the South also exist in the Midwest, and that unless some understanding can bring these folks to support what comes out of "distant" Washington, DC and the "liberal east coast establishment," the Democrats are going to lose them to the group that's positioning itself as the group that not only understands but will defend states' rights and keep the Federal government out of all our lives.

I think the Democrats need to start listening.

The Civil War and the 14th Amendment decided it for good. We cannot support segregation or discrimination no matter how many people want them.

But what Dean said wasn't in support of segregation or discrimination. He was talking about reaching out on economic issues, if I read the quote correctly.

I'm not even talking about race in my earlier post. I'm talking about the simple principle that no region of the country wants another region of the country making decisions for it, just on principle. My forefathers all fought for the South in the Civil War, not because they owned slaves or cared a damn about the slavery issue, but because their own small farms were threatened. They fought for the survival of their own families. "Get off my property" is a basic human instinct that has nothing to do with racism. Hell, it's the basic human instinct that is causing our troops a great deal of woe in Iraq! The Iraqis aren't necessarily saying they love Saddam just because they want the Americans to get off their land; likewise, not all Southerners were saying "Hooray for racism!" when they wanted the Yankees to go back north and get off southern land. And not all Southerners who display a Confederate flag in 2003 are saying "Hooray for racism!" It's sometimes a statement of just plain love of the land, sort of a "this is my property and you can't march in and take it from me" attitude. I'm not saying that's right (in fact, it's kinda childish). I'm saying that the flag is not always about racism, even though most of us here at DU are aware that this flag has evolved into a painful symbol, just as the swastika was originally a beautiful emblem that had nothing to do with murder.

I like to think that one of the Dems' greatest strengths is being able to see shades of gray, and there are many grays on this issue. I'm trying to explain how/why a basically decent person who is not a racist might actually have a Confederate flag in his home or on his car, and I'm intrigued that Dean wants to find a way to represent and EDUCATE that person whose needs are best represented by the Dem platform. In the process, maybe we can educate those people about how painful that flag has become. I'm interested that Dean wants to open up that dialogue. Educating those southerners who are lost in the past has got to start somewhere.

Thanks, I think I'll send Dean more money again.

Repugs!!!

where you can donate money to Dean, naturally.

Hawkeye-X

The other candidates are just trolling for ammo to take cheap shots.

It has to do with the relevance of poor whites that are targeted by the Right who play on their ignorance(Lieberman described it as "Democrats want to take your guns")and who in turn vote against their own best interests. Dean points out that these people are victimized and played by the Right, when Democratic positions can only offer an alternative to improve their lot, which in turn would pull them up.

I've been having a lot of trouble accessing his website lately. I can't even get it to load so I sign up for the meetups. It must be they changed the formatting and my browser can't handle it. I'm going to shut my mouth until I get more facts, because the arguments on Dean's side show that this issue is more complex (as another poster has stated) than some are making it out to be. If I know anything, it is that Dean is a complex man, and that's what I like about him.

But here are Dean's comments about race diversity and southern strategy from the DNC wintter meeting speech -

Let me tell you something else I'm going to do. One of the things that I thought was terrific about Bill Clinton was that when he became president in 1992, he said that his Cabinet would look like the rest of America. And he did it. And he did it.

(APPLAUSE)

I want all of our institutions of higher learning, our law schools, our medical schools, our best universities to look like the rest of America. And I thought...

(APPLAUSE)

I thought that one of the most despicable moments of this president's administration was three weeks ago, when on national prime-time television, he used the word ``quota'' seven times. The University of Michigan does not now have quotas. It has never had quotas. Quotas is a race-loaded word, designed to appeal to people's fears of losing their jobs.

(APPLAUSE)

I intend to talk about race during this election in the South because the Republicans have been talking about it since 1968 in order to divide us. And I'm going to bring us together. Because you know what? You know what? White folks in the South who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals in the back ought to be voting with us and not them, because their kids don't have health insurance either and their kids need better schools too.

(APPLAUSE)

Firstly, I am NOT a Dean supporter.

However, in fairness, I find nothing in those comments objectionable or off message.It would seem to me that the good people of DU, (a few of them anyway) have learned their politics from the far right.Supporters of anyone but Dean leap on a simple and innocuous statement which contained a reference to the confederate flag, a reference that in no way mentioned, hinted inferred or conferred any status upon that flag itself, a statement theat meant to appeal to a segment of the population who would actually be better off not voting republican, or at least would have before the democratic party collapsed upon itself ( another tale).....PIFFLE.

www.meetup.com. Not at Dean's website.

Tonight is meetup. Hope you go to one.

It has to do with the relevance of poor whites that are targeted by the Right who play on their ignorance (Lieberman described it as "Democrats want to take your guns")and who in turn vote against their own best interests. Dean points out that these people are victimized and played by the Right, when Democratic positions can only offer an alternative to improve their lot, which in turn would pull them up.

... then why didn't he say that?

I will let Dean speak for himself, but I don't think he would claim that poor whites are ignorant. I don't think the poor whites want the Federal government to improve their lot either. I think they want to improve their lot themselves, and they think that the Democrats are the ones placing obstacles in the way... in the form of high taxes on small businesses or affirmative action that tells them who they have to hire for instance.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... I understand that the Democrats aren't the problem, but I'm not the one you have to convince. (I sort of think sometimes that we should have let them secede back when they wanted to.)

Why don't we joing hands and sing Dixie.

I haven't seen or heard Dean say anything supporting the Confederate flag or what it represents. I ask yet again, what did Dean say about the confederate flag that bothers you?

I heard him say something about the people who have Confederate flags on their pick up trucks. I also heard him say that he doesn't like the confederate flag or what it represents.

I don't think he is condoning the Confederate flag. There is a real difference in what he said and what he is being accused of.

The people he is trying to target are like a cousin of mine who lives in Richmond, VA - proud of Southern heritage but not racist overtly, and staunchly conservative but lower middle class. My cousin doesn't realize that it's the Democrats who will help make better schools for his kids and provide more opportunities for he and his wife to make a good living. My cousin doesn't realize that the Republicans will not work in his interest, may send him off to war (he's in the reserves) and will continually cut social services that his young family needs. My cousin doesn't realize that the benefits he's gotten from being in the reserves, such as education, are not there because the Republicans want them there but because the Democrats have fought to keep those benefits.

Dean is reaching out to people like my cousin. And let me just emphasize this: If the Democrats don't try to reach out to these people and tell them why they should vote in their own interests than we don't stand a chance next November. So worrying about whether Dean is stepping on people's toes is a moot point because there will be four more years of war for oil, unemployment and slashing of the Bill of Rights.

Let's take a look at your contribution to the dialogue here at DU just within this thread, shall we?

Why is it every time I bring up the fact that the rebel flag = hate, no one disagrees with this. But then again you defend what Dean said about the rebel flag? we are not right wing conservatives here, you can't have it both ways.

No one disagrees that the rebel flag is a symbol of hate. Not even Dean. You seem to be forgetting/unaware that he agrees with this wholeheartly, you omit this in every mention of this issue. There is nothing to defend about what Dean has said specifically about the flag. What you disagree with him on (since he sahres your view of the flag itself) is the value of the votes from those who sport that flag. He wants those votes. I want those votes. Everyone of us should want those votes. I do not understand why you feel compelled to inform us we're not right wing conservatives. Wanting the votes of people who generally vote R does not a RWC make.

Either you believe the rebel flag = hate or you don't. Admit it Dean screwed up big time!

In saying he wants the votes of those who sport that flag? I disagree. No vote should be thrown away in this election.

And for people who say well the rebel flag is part of our history, you are correct, it's a very dark part of our history.

Once again no matter how you try to sell it, the rebel flag = hate and it will always equal hate, and anyone in my opinion who says other wise is just a bigot!

Great! Now why don't you show me someone who does not think the flag equals hate, specifically show me where Dean says it means otherwise or stop implying he has.

Now, let us look at the other civil and insightful contributions you have made in this meaningful, constructive and uniting thread of yours:

#4. 1st off it was the American flag that ended slavery in America...

Not the rebel flag. 2nd the majority of people who support the rebel flag would like to see slavery renacted.

what part of hate don't you understand?

Very nice. A flag ended slavery eh? From the time there was an American flag to the end of the civil war there was slavery. The best part though is another attempt to imply support of this flag as well as stupidity on the part of those who disagree with you.

#11. Like I said you all are sounding more & more like...

Repugs!!!

This should be deleted. Again, how you ever arrived at your user name is truly a mystery to me.

#12. And just to drive my point home...

Why don't we joing hands and sing Dixie.

Wow! Great contribution.

Your tag line is very curious to me as well. Why is it that "one pissed off gay liberal" so hates the first Governor to sign a civil unions bill into law?

Julie--who thinks folks who so degenerate the dialogue should be banned

You're on the losing side of this issue buddy. Your ship is sinking faster than the Titanic.

This is being spun beautifully for Dean. The only ones taking crap are those doing the attacking.

The rebel flag symbolizes hatred to you the same way the rainbow flag symbolizes hatred to others.

You seem to think that one who displays the rebel flag hates at best just persons of color and at worst the U.S.

Others think (I have been told this to my face by four different people in the last ten years -- anecdotal, yes, but no less true) that one who displays the rainbow flag hates at best just heterosexuals and at worst the U.S. (not to mention "God" and "The Traditional Family" and "The American Way"). (on edit: -- I display the US, CA, and rainbow flags on my desk at work. I am out everywhere.)

It's a matter of freedom of speech, IMO. You're welcome to think me a bigot for not thinking "rebel flag automatically = hatred," but you'd be wrong. I despise symbols taken as hatred for what they connote -- rightly or in our imaginations -- just as much as I despise bigotry.

I like what Brett Butler said on the topic of bigotry: "I hate bigots so much I am one."

on edit: "every time I bring up the fact that the rebel flag = hate, no one disagrees"

Count me as cordially disagreeing. It's not a fact.

What kind of crap is this? Just a spew of divisiveness and untruths. Ya oughtta be ashamed of yourself. (The original poster.)

Dean should be ashamed of himself. He is the one causing the divisions. This is divisive, calling congress cockroaches is divisive, calling people bush-lite is divisive. See a trend here?

I'm uncomfortable with the Confederate Flag myself, but there are those of a different opinion. If Dr. Dean can unite southern blacks and working class southern whites, something that hasn't been done since before the sixties, I believe it will be historic.

that drive around with Confederate flags on their pick-up trucks? Do they live in trailer parks?

Aren't they racists? Does Dean think that in one year he will be able to change a racist into a non-racist?

Seriously, I don't understand why we are trying to entice racists into the Democratic party, I mean, I get the big tent and all but shouldn't we draw the line somewhere?

If Dean didn't mean he wants to get racists to vote for him then he should have admitted that he used a poor choice of words.

I do. It's understandably hard for non-southerners to believe, but those who display the confederate flag do not all meet the expected stereotype. That's simply the way it is.

Yes, I know a couple of guys with confederate flags on their trucks. They frequent my favorite pub -- one that is always, ALWAYS, populated with whites, blacks, gays and straights (it's a great place, really).

Do these guys sit across the room and sneer at the negros and queers? No. They shoot pool with them, play darts with them, talk politics with them and even, gasp, flirt with them.

Then, they get back in their pick-up trucks (okay, one is actually a Blazer) with their confederate flags on them, back to their lives with no health insurance and job insecurity; back to their integrated apartment complexes. If Dean wants to woo these guys, that is just fine with me.

a Southerner weighing in on this issue.

Are your friends exceptions or the norm? Can you make any generalizations about people who like to display the Confederate flag?

Honestly, I thought the flag brouhahas in Georgia, Missouri and SC were about removing a symbol of racism, I must have misunderstood.

My friends are the exception in that very few people display the confederate flag at all. Its display is actually quite rare around here.

I can't make generalizations about the display of the confederate flag because I know there are guys like the ones I mentioned who display it more as a symbol of rebellion, while thare are still a few scarry people who are living in the past with a desire for a return to the "good ol' days." They are indeed out there and they too display the confederate flag.

The brouhahas were about removing the flag from state courthouses, not about prohibiting its display anywhere. It was a matter of state-sanctioned display, not an individual's right to display it.

Look, bottom line, for too many people, the flag is a symbol of racism and intimidation. Some good ol' boys just don't see it that way though. For some, it's a symbol of rebellion, or a representation of what uniform they wear in civil war re-enactments.

One good thing about all this though on a personal level, I'm going to talk to those guys I know who have the confederate flag decals on their trucks. I'm going to tell them that I know from being around them that they are not racists; that they wouldn't intentionally want to intimidate Eric who sold them new rims for their truck, Tonya who lovingly kicks their asses on the pool table, or Earl who re-built that Blazer engine just last month.

And that's a good thing, damnit. Because of Dean's comments, at least one discussion about the confederate flag is going to happen with a couple of guys who are ready for it. When we're done with that, we're going to move on to why they should consider voting for a democrat.

with confederate flag bumper stickers who are NOT racists. They live in my neighborhood here n NC.

What's wrong with living in a trailer park? What a condescending elitist statement.

off. I guess Dean is a condescending elitist.

Did he imply that people who live in trailer parks are racists?

was because he used it last night when he was trying to explain who the people were that he meant when he said Confederate flag bearing pick-up drivers. That was his characterization, not mine.

Sorry

Suppose for the sake of argument that they are all racists? Are we advocating single-issue voting these days?

What Dean actually said isn't racist. There's no way you can parse it that makes it racist. If he wants to reach out to people who may be racist but who are also being economically screwed by the Bush administration, why not?

Folks, we are all racist to some extent. It's a question of degree and of being aware of it and not letting it control our attitudes or actions.

It's a bullshit premise.

Moreover, there are already racists in the Democratic party. Dean's not attempting to entice racists -- they're already members of the party. He just wants their votes. Damn him. ;)

trucks with Confederate flags in the window who normally vote for Republicans?

How's that?

I'd guess he was talking to everyone.

Here in NC we have a HUGE crossover problem. Up until very recently, we had a state legislature dominated by democrats. We elect D governors, a lot of D representatives, and up until 2004 a D senator. But voters in NC tend to cross over to the R side when voting for president. At least since 1976, the last time a D won NC. Clinton lost NC by less than 1%, so it's increasingly clear that our state is ripe for the picking. We just have to get D's to stop crossing over.

I am amazed at the real brain disconnect with some in
here who are backing candidates other than Dean who
can't process that Dean wants to reach out to the
PEOPLE who have Confed flag stickers and isn't supporting
what the Confed flag symbolizes to many.

This is making your candidates look weaker IMO.

I can't believe a DUer would use this bullshit phrase. Upon reading your post ("your candidates"), I understand.

That said, I abhor your title but mostly agree with your post.

but when you want to change hearts and minds
of people who have voted for Republicans, you
need to crossover to ask them have their lives
been bettered by voting Republican...that's
is Dean's question.

The flag means different things to different people. It's easy to lose sight of that fact if you have never lived in the south. If you have lived in the south it's much easier to understand that the issue is not so simple as some seem to think it is.

The Confederate Battle Flag came to be because the stars and bars official Confederate Flag looked too much like the Union flag. On the battlefield, that led to both sides killing their own men. The men on the battlefield weren't slave owners. They were poor white men defending their homes from attack caused by something people who weren't on the battlefield were doing. They weren't fighting because they were willing to die to perserve slavery. They were fighting because they were willing to die to defend their families, home and hearth. It was a big mistake for the politicians during the Civil Rights Movement to use the flag to protest what they felt was having the north's views shoved down their throat. Even so, it doesn't change the fact that the Battle Flag still has the same connection to those Civil War soldiers who fought and died. The descendants of those fallen soldiers view the battle flag as something entirely different, and racism and slavery has nothing at all to do with it.

Clearly something has to be done regarding this issue, but I don't think demonizing the flag is the solution, because you can't just desecrate the memory of those men who died in battle. I think the answer is to educate people on the history of the flag, talk about it and have people challenge those who try to hide behind the battle flag to defend racism. It does happen and that's not okay. At the same time, it's not any better to demonize the flag itself. This issue needs to be addressed with care and consideration for EVERYONE. Attack racism, not the flag. You know, hate groups like the KKK know full well that by using the battle flag that they can perpetuate hate between blacks and whites and continue their agenda. And so many people foolishly allow them to do this. Southerners are going to defend that flag because it IS a part of their history and heritage. The KKK knew that by using the flag they would cause those fighting racism to view the flag as a symbol of hatred. They KNEW it would divide the north and south and would further their ability to spread hatred by making southerners feel demonized by the north. Who wins when this happens? The KKK and religious right, that's who. Howard Dean has the right idea here and if people stopped and really thought about this beyond their initial reaction to associating the flag with the KKK they might be able to see that.

Why is it every time I bring up the fact that the rebel flag = hate, no one disagrees with this. But then again you defend what Dean said about the rebel flag? we are not right wing conservatives here, you can't have it both ways.

Sure I can. Because you are not distinguishing between the symbol and the person who advocates it. I recognize that for a lot of people the CF=hate. But for a lot of people, primlarily those who fly it, it doesn't. As misguided as you and I might think they are, a lot of people who fly the rebel flag don't hate. They don't like being told what they do, and if offending a few strangers is the price they pay for their voice or their individuality, then so be it for them

That's difficult for you to understand?

Either you believe the rebel flag = hate or you don't. Admit it Dean screwed up big time!

Oh NOW your message. No he didn't screw up.

Once again no matter how you try to sell it, the rebel flag = hate and it will always equal hate, and anyone in my opinion who says other wise is just a bigot!

Good thing your opinion means nothing to me. I see yours as a pretty closed minded view. Might I ask if you live in the south?

Why is it every time I bring up the fact that the rebel flag = hate, no one disagrees with this. But then again you defend what Dean said about the rebel flag? we are not right wing conservatives here, you can't have it both ways.

Respectfully, Dean did NOT address the rightness or wrongness of the confederate flag in the now infamous comment (although he has before said it is a loathsome symbol). His remark was intended to show the need to woo poor Southern whites who help put so many republicans in office.

Honestly, how many times must this be repeated to you of the Dean Hate camp, who have this odd need to pick apart every word he says with surgical implements? It sounds like it is YOU who refuse to be in error, not Dr. Dean.

Turn your attention back to the prize (dumping DimSon) and stop it with the Dean Dissembling trip. It's more than old at this point.

He wants to beat Bush and he needs EVERY vote he can get, even a white southerner that just might happen to have a rebel flag decal.

:eyes:

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=10232&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=1301

""Normally, rather than directly confronting poor and working class white southerners with a strong economic agenda, Democrats have tried to imitate Republicans on many of these social issues. It is good that we have a candidate offering hope to the South with an economic agenda. It is Dr. Dean who is reminding us that the combination of poor and working class blacks and whites, north and south, united in coalition around a common economic agenda of jobs, health care, education and housing will constitute a winning strategy in 2004," concluded Cong. Jackson.

an Uncle Tom! Get it right!

.

wasn't a bigot or a racist, and they're the ones who attacked him.

That seems like all that needs saying on this thread.

I belong to a racial minority and didn't see anything wrong with his statement, he did not embrace the confederacy nor did he say that he supported the KKK. His point was that the Democratic party must the the party of ALL Americans, not just the Black Americans and that we need to appeal to all americans not just the usual constituencies. If his position turns off some Black Americans, there is nothing he can do. We cannot pander to one racial group over the other but try to appeal to everyone. I am tired of the dems being too PC to tell it like it is. Dean is a different kind of Democrat and he can attract those who have never voted because they see the Democratic party hijacked by special interest groups (Blacks, Jews, unions, etc.)