So Where were all the Dean voters last night?

The post titled "where were all the millions of new young Dean supporters last night?" was really offensive to me.

As much as those who support to this post say they are not blaming Dean for the election losses in Kentucky and Mississippi the title speaks for itself.

"One of the biggest talking points in favor of Dean has been this bunch of young people Dean is supposed to be energizing. Oh yes, Dean is changing the world and mobilizing these throngs of young people who have never voted before. They are now mesmerized, enchanted and motivated to turn the right wing tide back and sweep Democrats into office all across our fair land. Well you know what? after last night, it's obviously a pipe dream, fantasy, delusion and pure bullshit..."

The obvious thing is they are buying into the media spin that last night was a great Republican victory. Sure we lost the two southern governorships in part in Kentucky because the Governor of the state was a drag on the ticket and in Mississippi becuz Harley Barbour is Mr. Moneybags and the state is very right wing. I don't think too many Democrats expect the Democratic nominee to carry Mississippi in 2004. What this person is ignoring is that Democrats did very well in many parts of the country and specifically in states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, New Jersey, and Indiana--swing states or states which lean Republican. We also did well elsewhere such as gaining Assembly seats in Virginia.

But the dislike some people have for Dean has no boundaries. No the Democratic defeat is because Dean supporters--or the stereotypical "young people" didn't turn out. Whose to say they didn't? and if we lose Kentucky or Mississippi why are they to blame? and not the candidate in those state elections?


Dean supporters are more than young people but people of all walks of life--young and old. White collar and blue (did you know Dean is leading Gephardt in Iowa among union members?).

Dean also put his New Hampshire team to work getting out the vote for yesterdays elections. According to politics NH 456 Dean supporters canvassed the state on behalf of Democrats in local races, and overall the Dems did pretty well last night in NH. A Democrat also won a open seat for the NH state House of Representatives.

So where were the Dean voters last night? probably voting and helping the Democratic party do very well in many states along with supporters of the other candidates. Last nights victories were not Dean victories but Democratic victories and I'm pretty proud of all of us.

I'm a Dean supporter. I voted yesterday (and drove people to the polls).

But I forgot to vote for the Democratic candidate in Kentucky, Mississippi, and Philadelphia.


So blame me...I may be a Dean supporter, but I didn't help out in the major markets yesterday.

Blame me for not trying hard enough.

I now see the error of my ways for not voting in Kentucky or Mississippi.

it's not dean, it's his supporters we don't like.

You don't dislike one person, you dislike whole groups of people because of one thing that they have in common.

Good for you. Take a stand.

Dean supporters are not the only disrupters on DU. We also put up with most of the insults if you look at the number of negative Dean posts as opposed to any other candidate. Is it because Dean supporters are enthusiastic about their candidate? or that Dean is doing well? All I know is that we are pretty nice people who want to defeat Bush.

I've had run-ins with a number of Dean supporters on this forum over some really, really stupid shit. I'll say something like, "I worry that Dean lacks the perception of having foreign policy experience" or "I worry that 'Gay Marriage' will replace 'Gun-Grabber' as the rallying cry because of Vermont"...in other words, conscientious concerns phrased very politely.

I will then get clobbered by several Dean supporters for "bashing" the candidate. Christ, this has happened in posts where I clearly praise Dean. Basically, there are a few zealots who make the whole crew look really, really bad.

This doesn't bother me too much because I have been privileged to meet thousands of Dean supporters out there in the flesh world, and they are nothing like the few ridiculous dickheads who give Deaners a bad name here. It also doesn't bother me because I secretly like Taliban candidate supporters; if we had more people like that, Bush would do better to stay at home next November.

It also doesn't bother me because all the candidates have their Taliban supporters, and glass houses break easily. If I had a nickel for every deranged, stupid, useless, inaccurate anti-Dean thread I've seen here in the last several weeks, I could buy gold-plated underwear.

It also doesn't bother me because this is primary season, and this stuff is nothing new.

So meegbear is painting with a broad brush...but that doesn't mean he is 100% wrong.

It also doesn't bother me because I secretly like Taliban candidate supporters; if we had more people like that, Bush would do better to stay at home next November.

hahahahaha!!!!!! "Taliban candidate supporters"!!!!!! Hilarious! Damn accurate too! I think I will secretly like them more when we're all on the same side.

It also doesn't bother me because all the candidates have their Taliban supporters, and glass houses break easily. If I had a nickel for every deranged, stupid, useless, inaccurate anti-Dean thread I've seen here in the last several weeks, I could buy gold-plated underwear.

Thank you for your accuracy so cleverly conveyed with delightful eloquence. Well said Will (you know, for a Kerry supporter). ;-)


Julie

You have your loyalities as well and although you strain to appear balanced, your loyalties and priorities are obvious enough. And on a few occasions you started the most hostile and juvenile threads compared to the typical lowm slow burn.

See how you operate:

You throw out criticisms of Dean, painting yourself as the ever so reasonable, unaffiliated observer, and then portray those who respond in defense in a matter to suggest they are the one's bashing or intolerant.

and for saving me the trouble of naming names.

I'm probably one of the people you've had a run in or two with. And I don't want to be that way. To be honest, I sometimes have trouble distinguishing between (Fake) concern and real concern.

Posts that start out with "I'm worried about dean because..." have an odd tendency to end with "Because Dean is such an ass".

But I've seen you praise Dean and get attacked for it.

Of course meegbear paints with a broad brush. The broader the brush, the more likely you're going to paint what you're supposed to be painting. The downside is that you paint a lot of stuff you should avoid. Whether one cares about that is what I'm interested in.

Times like this I really miss the FU icon.

who do not attack other candidates and do pretty well remaining civil in some of the nastiest threads on this board.

There are endless threads authored about Dean with the sole purpose of attacking him and any of his supporters who dare show up to defend him. No matter how civil they are in their defense of Dean they are likely to be be called stupid, brainwashed, a cult member and on it goes. Then throw in some nasty insinuations for good measure. There is no end to personal attacks, again, including for those who were not offensive in their posts.

I have seen supporters from every campaign that I do like very much. I would never ascribe the behavior of a supporter to the candidate nor would I treat all supporters badly because of those who are offensive. Some of my favorite posters here support someone other than Dean.

Most of my former favorite posters support someone other than Dean and have been so offensive, down right vicious at times, I wonder how I came to respect them in the first place. That part has been sad for me.

Julie

I like his supporters just fine.

:freak:

Bah...

Besides being total BS--in effect blaming Dean supporters for any loss--- I only wonder how much of a loss it would have been WITHOUT their support. Will Pitt, you are surprisingly sensitive for someone who must receive tons of hatemail for your brilliant Truthout work.
But you make a good point. The overheated extremists for any cause here do us no good, and in many cases are turned upon us Andrew Sullivan style.

So I equally wonder:
"where were the supporters of Kerry/Clark/Kucinich/Sharpton/Gephardt/Mosely-Braun/insertcandidatehere last night?

"where were the supporters of kerry/Clark/Kucinich/Sharpton/Gephardt/Mosely-Braun/insertcandidatehere last night?

Good point.

he's bringing in new voters. The others aren't saying that.

yesterday.

Take your broad brush and stroke elsewhere...

I have no idea why you think Wisconsin is responsible for Dean's claim of bringing in new voters.

and we pulled off 2 upsets in our municipal elections. Dems hold the Town Council 7-2, up from 6-2-1 last election.

We almost had a clean sweep of the Town Council. The 2 that lost, lost by 19 and 33 votes respectively. It was close.

Now that the local elections, which drained time, money, and energy, are over, my Dem Town Comm can start working on winning our neck of the woods for Dean in 2004.

Dean supporters can't win can they. If Dean says "I'm not sure their support can be transferred" the end of it is never heard. If the elections didn't go so well... well suddenly they've been claiming to high heaven about all the new wonderful partisan Dem voters they are producing. WHICH IS IT????

There's work to be done, and listening to negativity here
just saps one's energy. So don't do it!

Atlant

I saw the people at this meeting having a good time and asking some fun questions. Dean, Clark and Kerry seemed to take it in the setting it was in and did not get to up tight. Dean does not hit me as a persom with any more that if something is said he does not like he will say something back. It is sort of a NE way more than mad. Kerry does the same.Clark is more step back as he had to be in service. The rest are also what they are in life and you have to look from what they come from.This was all fun to me as it seemed to the people their and on the stage. The spinners on TV have got to do something else with it.

The confederate flag won with 70% of the vote recently in Mississippi. Ronnie Musgrove was trying to make his case for reelection on the basis of the economy. Then along came Kerry-Gephardt-Edwards to invent a controversy about the confederate flag, because they're behind in the polls and haven't got much else. They even coordinated their attack in a conference call between strategists, which some are now calling the "Axis of Feeble."

So, just as we're heading into the close Mississippi election, with Haley Barbour waving the confederate flag, these three candidats start waving it as well.

Musgrove lost.

Causality? All I know is this: it wasn't helpful.

I don't know that that's still true. Dean had a narrow lead among union members at a point when he had a 4-6% lead in Iowa. Now that Gephardt's tied or slightly ahead overall, I would suspect he's leading with union members.