GOV. DEAN'S statement transcript on the flag issue

Ok here for your microparsing pleasure , for you to rend asunder and take pieces out of context, is the full transcript of Gov. Deans most recent statement on the Confederate flag dust up.
FULL TRANSCIPT OF CABLE NEWS COVERAGE
Governor Howard Dean, M.D.
Cooper Union – NYC
November 5, 2003

We're at a space today that's rich in our nation’s history, a place where citizens have gathered for more than a century to debate the great issues of the day. From this platform and from this very podium, Abraham Lincoln spoke
nearly 150 years ago as a presidential candidate and when Lincoln came here, he did not shy away from talking about the greatest threat that our republic faced at that time which is the terrible institution of human slavery.

I will not shy away today either. The issue of the confederate flag has become an issue in this presidential race. Let me make this clear. I believe that we have one flag in this country, the flag of the United States of America.
I believe that the flag of the confederate states of America is a painful symbol and reminder of racial injustice and slavery which Lincoln denounced from here over 150 years ago. And I do not condone the use of the flag of
the confederate states of America. I do believe that this country needs to engage in a serious discussion about race, and that everyone must participate in that discussion. I started this discussion in a clumsy way.

This discussion will be painful, and I regret the pain that I may have caused either to African-American or southern white voters in the beginning of this discussion. But we need to have this discussion in an honest open way.

We cannot leave any one person behind in this discussion, no matter what their color, no matter where they live. I understand Senator Edwards' concern last night that he not have people from the North to tell people from the South how to run their states. But we all need to understand that we are in this together. And that this will be a difficult and painful discussion, that feelings will be hurt, and what we must do is that people of good will must stay at the table.

If we are ever to vanquish the racism left over from 400 hundred years of slavery and Jim Crow, 40 or 50 years ago, the civil rights movement beginning to see relief from that, we can't think it is over, we must have the dialogue Bill Clinton promised us, we must continue that dialogue, and we must all be at the table, so I say, to those many of the people in the African American community have supported what I have said in the past few days, because they understand, some have not, to those, I deeply regret the pain I have may caused. Many of our white supporters have understood, but to those who do not, I regret the pain that I have caused. I will tell you, there is no easy way to do this. There will be pain as we discuss it, we must face it together. Hand in hand, as Dr. King and Abraham Lincoln asked us to do.

(edited for punctuation/typos only)

Gee, if Kerry, Edwards or Clark made those flag statements, I wonder how many dean supporters would be so forgiving? Hmmmmmm ....

this issue is too important to gloss over with campaign envy.

but i will ask again...what is to forgive?

to even approach the subject of racism, maybe I could have a wee bit of respect for them.

while these otehr cowards sit back and ride the fence with nothing but empty status quo BS.

Now we can watch as Dean's numbers go up again... and as they do, these attacks will get more and more shrill and desperate.

Dean admits he started it in "a clumsy way." He was busy pandering and got caught saying something ignorant. He shouldn't be commended for starting the discussion. This wasn't the discussion he wanted. He should be condemned for pandering for votes and still refusing to apologize. Read his statement. Where is the "I'm sorry." Fact is that he is a gutless panderer that refuses to admit when he is wrong.

That Dean is the only white candidate to talk about race.

Even Dean backed off that one after he got torched on it.

but could you clue me in as to who your man/woman IS?

You already (think you) know! :)

Which specific parts of Dean's comments did you find insincere and why?

The Bastard! :eyes:

Gov. Howard Dean's speech to the Democratic National Committee
February 21, 2003, Washington, D.C.
. . .
Let me tell you something else I'm going to do. One of the things I thought
was terrific about Bill Clinton was that when he became President in 1992, he
said that his Cabinet would look like the rest of America -- and he did it. He
did it.

I want all of our institutions of higher learning, - our law schools, our
medical schools, our best universities - to look like the rest of America. I
thought that one of the most despicable moments of this President's
Administration was three weeks ago when, on national prime time television, he used the word
"quotas" seven times. The University of Michigan does not now have quotas,
has never had quotas, and "quota" is a race-loaded word designed to appeal to
people's fears of losing their jobs.

I intend to talk about race during this election in the South. The
Republicans have been talking about it since 1968 in order to divide us, and I'm
going to bring us together. Because you know what? White folks in the South who drive
pick-up trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting
with us because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids
need better schools too.

and I have to say, we've been a lot more equitable
in our comments about the others than some I've seen in the last
couple of days about Dr. Dean.

You aren't doing your particular candidate any
good by some of your comments.

I sure hope so. I believe Dr. Dean did the correct and gracious thing in explaining his position yet again.

But, now it's time for all of us Democrats to move forward. Remember, our mission is to replace Junior in next year's election...and, I hope we don't destroy our candidates and ourselves in the process!

I am supporting Howard Dean...but, I will vote for whomever is the Democratic nominee!

Peace to one and all.


:dem:

What it IS, bros and sisters. The only reason this is going anywhere is due to the ability of some to take things out of context and inflame them to the benefit of their own campaigns.

BTW I note significant comment from the Clark campaign on this issue. Because they don't feel the need to do this.

</sarcasm>

I hope to God he gets some better handlers.

I like Dean, and think he truly did misspeak. However, I worry that he will get chewed up should he get the nomination if he makes this kind of mistake again.

that he is in charge here..he has some very smart people working with him, but i assure you, they have no control over what comes out of his mouth and he has said nothing that does not have the ring of truth to it..what is so bad about appealing to people who continuously support the republican party while they are being victimized by it's actions?

confederate flag, and did not attached the required level of south bashing and didn't work to prop up the continuation of divisions and tension based on race that guys like Sharpton depend on.

Dean is talking about bringing blacks and whites together and that scares the hell out of those who have made a career out of playing the other side of the republican southern strategy.

"Hold still this is gonna hurt." It still would have been better had he done this last night when he had the chance with a national audience, and especially with a real body and soul before him expressing hurt. Nevertheless, better late than never.

:shrug:

Still am glad to see it, in lieu of the 'spin' that was put on this issue.

A) thought about this before saying it; or B) had the judgment to realize what he had gotten into, and apoligized as soon as it was brought to his attention.


That being said, I give him credit for a well-written apology. It even seems sincere.

and it didn;t seem to offend you back in feb, or march, or april, or may, or june, or july, or aug, or september, or october... so why now?

Can you cite where he's said "I'm going after the Confederate flag vote" before?

And one of them was the DNC Winter Meeting (to a standing O). Here's one exact quote:

"I intend to talk about race in this election in the south because the Republicans have been talking about it since 1968 in order to divide us. And I'm going to bring us together, because you know what? White folks in the south who drive pickups trucks with confederate flags decals in the back ought to be voting with us and not them, because their kids don't have health insurance either and their kids need better schools too." (big applause)

Just about any stump speech from lo these many months included pretty much the same thing. I've heard it myself probably a dozen times.

Eloriel

I know Dean's supporters want to mislead people into thinking that his statement the other day was the exact same thing he has been saying, but it's not.

The Yahoo article is 'spin' statements taken out of context.

and it's what he said the other day that's being criticized. Not what he said in February

was either a complete quote or not a paraphrase.

IN ANY CASE, you can hold to your ridiculous, legalistic parsing, or you can grok it that if he was quoted entirely accurately the other day, it was still shorthand for the full quote I provided. He's said that full quote (or very nearly) far too many times for him to have shifted his meaning to a racist or pro-Confederacy sentiment at this point. Anyone who even tries to claim otherwise is just practicing "gotcha politics."

Eloriel

is not going to convince the people who hear the remark paraphrased by the media. If Dean's supporters only response is "legalistic parsing", then I wish Dean good luck because he's going to need it. Even Dean himself admits it was a clumsy remark, but some of his supporters can't bring themselves to admit even that.

Ohhhhh. :eyes:

Actually it's the fact that JJ Jr. considered endorsing Sharpton and decided on Dean instead. That's what this is REALLY about. The so called liberals who are in a flap about this, were none too concerned before Sharpton 'told' them to be. And, the other candidates just jumped conveniently on the Sharpton bandwagon. Disgusting display really...

context. Or was it the "I'm the only anti-war Dem" remark that was taken out of context? Or maybe it was the "The other Dems voted to raise you real estate taxes" remark that was taken out of context? Or was it the "I'm more AIPAC" quote that was taken out of context?

:hi:

He changed is so called closed mind bout that.

Also, regarding the other quotes, I've actually seen them in context. Nice try though! ;)

quote taken out of context, the "the democratic wing statement was mine" quote taken out of context, and the "I believe Saddam has WMD's" quote taken out of context, and the "give Saddma a 60 deadline then unilaterally attack" quote taken out of context.

which was in every article you can find with quotes even remotely resembling the BS you posted above.

Changing the subject again huh? You must be a Kerry supporter. Care to dig out some of his old quotes?

Oh, "The Democratic Wing statement," is accurate. Paul Wellstone borrowed it from a woman who's name fails me now, but what it means is that Democrats are suppposed to be an 'oppposition' party.

Dean is opposing this administration, and has been all along.

:hi:

issue is because Jesse Jackson Jr. is planning to endorse Howard Dean and not Al Sharpton.

...but this week was the first I'd hear of it. I suspect I'm not the only one in that boat. THAT'S why it's getting attention now.

Since not all of us are hardcore Dean supporters, it's kinda silly to assume we all know the content of his stump speeches from "feb, or march, or april, or may, or june, or july, etc."

:)

"I'm not going to take a back seat to anybody in terms of fighting bigotry. I'm the only person here that signed a bill that outlawed discrimination against gays and lesbians by giving them the same rights (as everyone else).

"What I discovered is that the fear of people who opposed that bill, the majority of people in my state, was mostly based on ignorance. We have to reach out to every American. We don't have to embrace the confederate flag and I never suggested we do. We have to reach out to all disenfranchised people. Robert Kennedy brought people together. Jesse Jackson did it. We're going to bring people together in this country. I understand the confederate flag is a loathesome symbol, just as I understood the anti-gay slurs I had to put up with after I signed that bill were loathesome. If we don't reach out to every American we can't win. I've had enough of campaigns based on fear, I want a campaign based on hope." -- Howard Dean, Rock the Vote Forum, Boston, 11/4/03

big difference. I'll bet the young man last night would have liked to have heard something similar rather than self congratulatory praise on fulfilling some sort of "rightousness" quotient.

Wonderful, wonderful speech. Well done, Dr. Dean.

Re: handlers, hell no! I have no problem with Dean receiving advice. He certainly does. But milquetoast pablum is not what will work. And that's what we'll get with "handlers."

People, please! Look at the current occupant of the White House! He can't put too words together. He nearly caused an international crisis by saying "see" instead of "seek" referring to China a couple weeks ago. But (some) people like him because he seems open, honest, and he talks in plain English.

Let's learn the lesson, OK? Kerry English (to pick an extreme example) isn't going to win anything.

I'm fairly resigned to a Dean nomination, but...

It's getting to be a BAD BAD PATTERN, with his apologizing/clarifying/modifying statements. He's either got to get his mouth in check, or DON'T APOLOGIZE!

Most of these missteps are on minor issues (relatively), but will trip him up--and that will be his own fault.

This kind of thing is so irritating, because Bush is going to have enough money to swamp Dean before he even opens his mouth--he doesn't have to HELP him!

Ugh.

it's the way the game is played.

Dean has been attacked like no other, by every candidate with few exceptions.

In addition, when he speaks he actually says something, unlike most politicians. When you take risks by making 'meaningful' statements, your going to piss off a few people.

I wouldn't even mind it if he came up with some of these statements, but then it's like he realizes he's wrong/has upset people/is getting attacked, and instead of standing by what he says, he TAKES IT BACK. OR changes it, clarifies it, apologizes....

It makes him look like he's shooting off his mouth without thinking and has to rein himself back in.

What if he does that to Kim Jong Il, for example--yes that is a leap, but you know Bush/Rove is looking to promote it that way.

Dean is going to spend half the general election campaign cleaning up after himself--that takes away from time he could be going after Bush.

He looked 'insensitive' after the man in the audience asked him a question about the CF. Dean's prepared response to other candidates, didn't wash when a man claimed to be offended. You see, suddenly ... after Sharpton announced that Dean was anti black, people lapped it up. Yea, I'm pissed now that Al said theres a reason to be, DAMNIT!!

Sad really.

When it became a reality that the press/other candidates were twisting this issue and thusly, people were hurt, Dean did the right thing and apologized.

I've said before, his heart is in the right place, but his mouth is sometimes slow to follow.

His strengths are his weaknesses. But, the strenghts have outweighed the weakness thus far.

If he weren't the front runner, you'd be hearing nothing about him. Do you really think Kerry and Gephardt and Edwards are performing flawlessly? Hardly. No one can. No one does. Dean is THE target. The fact that he's been saying the same damn thing for months and months with never so much as a raised eyebrow, and NOW it's a whole brouhaha perfectly proves my point.

It's possible to make hay with just about anything someone says. Dean is the target right now. That's all.

Eloriel

I'll even agree with it. But, he's either got to recognize that he's the target (which he does) and *think* before he says something, or he's got to stand by what he says without modification--and move on.

This whole, making statements after the fact like he does--with the Edwards thing, and the Kerry/bay state thing (technically his campaign made the statement, not him), and the Bob Graham thing, and the social security thing, and this confederate thing... drives me crazy.

Isn't he bright enough to KNOW that he's a target? Doesn't he know that there are people waiting to pounce? Isn't he smart enough to realize that he should be more careful about the way he phrases his arguments?

If not, then he's not qualified to be President

"keep" doing anything. He's guilty of being mortal.

and they are using it to their advantage... it's called triangulation.

The question was "Why does he KEEP doing this?" Though I understand why you don't want to defend the remark that's being criticized (after all, even Dean apologized (sort of) for it), but you shouldn't mislead people by saying that what he said the other night is the same as what he's been saying since Feb.

:)

especially since even Dean himself admits the remark was "clumsy" and apologized for the pain it "may have" caused.

Sometimes those qualities make "all or nothing" thinkers uncomfortable.

If he's been saying the longer version forever now (with NO "hurt feeings" or misunderstanding or even pot shots from the losing crowd of candidates), and bunches of people have heard him again and again, and then he does a shorthand version, you can NOT claim he's changed his mind and now means something more sinister. It just doesn't work that way.

Further, you have no idea if he was fully quoted (that is, using a shorthand version) or not. Literally none. Now, I understand that you don't want to give the benefit of the doubt on that one, but my other point still stands: YOU can't change what HE meant just because you want something to carp about.

Eloriel

I suppose then the pressure would ease off, and everythig will be dandy. I also assume all those millions of people who are 'off the grid' will come out of the woodworks and he'll win in a landslide, too.

and might be put through it again before all is said and done.

Getting to the White House is a tough row to hoe.