Can Dean "win" a debate against Bush?

Obviously, Dean would demolish Bush on the facts but can he win among the sheeple? Will he lose his cool when attacked in a debate with the ultimate prize on the line?

...last night would've been the time, and he didn't do it. It'd be Death by a Thousand Cuts, debate style for Dubya in a Dean-Bush debate, bank.

Later.

RJS

The president has no time for electioneering, because his time is given over to prosecuting the War on Terra.

If there are debates, then the terrorists have won.

Sincerely,

Karl Rove.

If he has time to vacation and do fund raising events he better find time to debate.

for being to afraid to defend himself in a real debate. I hope the idiot tries to run.. it just gives our side more ammo.

I lay a bet Bush fumbles and then HE flies off the handle... just think of every other right winger who has thier beliefs quesitoned with pure hard facts.

Remember how well he did it when he was being exposed as a moron by Gore in front of the world?

Dean would undoubtedly drive Bush into fits. He invokes passion in people, and in a one on one debate, he'd have Bush hysterical. You don't actually see just how effective a speaker and debater of issues Dean is in these debates because there are too many candidates right now. Give Dean 3 minutes or 5 minutes to speak and Bush will have a puddle around his penny loafers. :D

And for the general election the media will scrutinize his every word and every fumble. The pass they are giving Dean now will be Bush's pass in a general election.

that Gore ran away from?

I reviewed my notes on that just the other day. Against Gore, Bush regularly flew off into confused monologues and I'd say he was very close, not to flying off the handle, but to breaking down and crying. Gore was considered merciless but actually laid off at key points, so as not to appear too vicious. Obviously Dean can cut Bush up; as could almost any articulate politician with half a brain.

result being an avalanche of voters switching to Dean. Dean will literally ROAST HIS ASS IN FRONT OF THE WORLD. It won't and shouldn't be a Bush Lite performance.

Mr. President, with all due respect, which isn't much, you've lied to the American citizens, the world, robbed the U.S. Treasury for your Friends, gotten young Americans killed, taken jobs from hardworking Americans, and claim that you were picked by God. The Americans citizens deserve better and, Mr. President, you need to start packing.

Dean '04...

Given the opportunity, Dean would slice & dice Governor Bush. I can see Georgie getting both pissed off and desperate and raising his voice in some ridiculous way.

Taking a page from Herr Schwarzenegger's winning strategy.

The man is like a goddamn broken record. I listened to his "speech" on job growth the other day and he just kept repeating the same ideas over and over again. For thirty minutes.

...but can he win among the sheeple who care more about personality than facts? Remember, Gore killed Bush on the facts but lost because the sheeple didn't like his behavior in the debates.

IF Dean is heavily coached beforehand on conducting himself in a calm and cool manner, he might give Dubya's straight talk attitude a run for its money. Frankly, I'm sick of W.'s style, and I think a lot of Americans are too.

have a sighing fit or invade idiot boy's personal space the way Gore did.

where Gore walked inro Bush's ear while Bush was answering a question. That was downright weird.

but the media will exalt the great performance of our great wartime leader Dubya, and how he took time out of his busy schedule of fightin' terra just to debate that slimey libbrul from Vermont.

bush has become used to minimal opposition, at least it being in the room calling him out to anwser for himself on the spot. he will just call Dean or any other of the canadates 'unamerican' or 'unpatriotic' or one of his other catchphrases... and the sheeple will start to get restless but nothing more before the shepards' propaganda machine kicks in and quiets the herd.

individuals are smart... the people as a whole are willing to eat (and enjoy) anything cnn, cbs, abc, nbc, faux news, or any branch of the government will give them, even if it is a load of Bu(LL)sh(IT)

-LK

"Yes, it does," McCain retorted.
"No, it doesn't," Bush insisted.

http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/01/06/gop.debate/

Why would you have wanted Saddam Hussein to still be in power today?

That's how they're going to paint Dean.

Dean needs to go on the offensive with this NOW. To go on the defensive about this is certain death.

For the very same reasons your father wishes Saddam were still in power.

like, uh, now would be a good time.

If he's on the defensive, he's toast.

can you explain?

by saying that to do so would destabilize the ME and embroil the US in a military quagmire. I guess W really showed dad didn't he...

the press would then go to Bush Sr. and ask him if he agrees with Dean that he wishes Saddam was still in power, and Bush Sr. would get a nice open free shot at the softball with maximum publicity guaranteed by Dean.

I'm not worried about Dean getting pissed; infact, I feel Dean is at his best when he doesn't think and therefore acts/speaks intuitively.

Now he is overstumped, is focused on appealing to whatever group he has to pander to at the time, and I feel I'm not getting the directness and honesty that formerly came from the candidate. When Dean talks slow for instance, it sounds completely wrong. McMahon, his communications advisor, talks like this, and this is where I believe Dean is learning this stuff from.

Dean has always said stupid things, but this in itself will not kill a candidate (Look at Shrub, for instance.) However, the spinned responses Dean is giving are not coming off well, and should probably be replaced with something cruder yet clearer.

perception is quite different from reality (of course, we learned this from the Kennedy-Nixon debates, too). Gore demolished Bush in the debates, but the commentators and respondents afterwards shifted the interpretation. Bush was declared the winner in each debate, for different reasons each time. Gore obviously killed him on facts. But the media and the citizens who reacted (on TV and radio and in newspapers) twisted things around so it made Bush the winner (partly because he was able to stand up and talk, things that people doubted - low expectations come in handy). I expect the same will happen again. The media and pundits will declare Bush the winner and lots of people are apolitical and uninformed about issues and don't decide who to vote for until after the debates.

He will beat him hands down!!!

If Dean stayed focused, and didn't let Bush get away with repeating his one-paragraph standard about tax cuts good, Iraq tough. I'm not sure how to best explain it, but I am sure you know what I mean...Bush just never says anything. No matter what, he has a canned, cliche for a response, whether it's "we're gonna smoke 'em out!" or "it's your money, you should be allowed to keep it!" he never can be seen on camera actually explaining how a program of his works (does he have any?) or explaining the substance of his views. He just cracks a joke and moves along...the same way he did with the CIA leak, the wmd lie, etc.

Months ago, no one would have paid much attention to you other than to cuss at you and call you a Saddam-lover and a traitor. But now, in the shadow the big lie that is George W Bush, people are likely to give Dean more leeway if he doesn't take that kind of shit from Bush, and doesn't allow him to skate through the debate on weasel words.

When Bush uses his, "Who can honetly say the world would be better off if Saddam was still in power?" Dean should reply, "Why do you keep bringing up Saddam Hussein when discussing the terrorist attacks against our country, when you know full well that Saddam had no involvement whatsoever in the 9/11 attack...why do you and Dick Cheney perpetuate this myth that Iraq was involved in attacks against us? Isn't this in fact tantamount to a lie, Mr. President?"

Enough people know the backstory now...it would be worth it see Bush lose his cool, since we all know he can't veer from a scripted response without making a total fool out of himself. It could be fun!

Dean should go for it, force Bush to hang himself with his own stupid cliches.

Dean has absolutely no fear about criticizing Bush. As a result, he doesn't do so half-heartedly. He's confident in his criticisms and due to that, what he says tends to stick. Criticizing Bush wasn't acceptable until Dean started to do it and did so convincingly and in a way people recognized as valid.

Dean would frustrate Bush to the point where I think Bush would be the one to lose his cool. Dean would make Bush look weak.

I hate to say it, but I think Bush would keep cool as a cucumber and talk about how positive he is and that all Dean has is negativity and attacks. And he would win.

But I think ultimately the onslaught of footage of Dean forthing at the mouth at his rallies will paint him as a nutball radical. Here's a preview:

http://www.gop.org/Newsroom/RNCResearch/TLvideo2.htm

Still say Dean could do it maybe....but Clark or Kerry would handle this job best. No need in taking chances...this is too important to America.

"IT'S YOUR ECONOMY AND YOUR WAR, STUPID!"
A REAL MILITARY HERO TELLS A GENUINE INTELLIGENCE FAILURE

Military credentials will work nicely in the general election. Not only do we have two soldiers as potential Bush foes, we have two actual war heroes!

Have you checked out www.awolbush.com yet?

<>

but you're right about the first part (frothy rallies don't really enter into this debate on debates).

Dean's great at Dean rallies with Dean supporters, but put him next to an unnamed democrat and he looks on the verge of crying or throwing a tantrum. Unlike McCain's anger management problem, Dean not only appears insecure but spoiled and effeminate. Attacking an incumbent only works on TV if the challenger appears sincere, self-assured, and strong, as Clinton and Reagan came across. Dean looks like someone snapped his ass with a wet towel.

I love the guy on paper (or the net), but his televised image isn't "ready for prime time", not during a war, not ever. An inanimate object (or Kucinich) won't beat Bush in a debate, and "the media" isn't strictly to blame.

The answer is NO! Why? Because we don't have real debates, what we have is this highly scripted abomination that both major parties agreed to when they ditched the debate format used by the League of Women Voters. The candidate that is best rehearsed, and is more coachable, is the one that does best. Add to that whatever soundbites the networks play later to the vast TV audience, which did not watch the debate to begin with, and you can bet the Democratic candidate will be put in the worse light possible.

We should consider ditching the "debates" altogether!

and comes across to really stupid people, and the media, as getting the best digs in.

Oh, and then there's the "attitude".

Obviously you can be a semi-literate fool and "win" a debate.

For Dean, it would be like biting into an apple!

Both are strong candidates. I think both would be good. I look forward to the Presidential debates too! 2004 seems to be a promising election year.

Though, I will support whatever president is elected, I hope we can get past party-line politics that currently both parties are playing and debate and do whats good for the betterment of "America".

Furthermore, Bush can remain calm, as Dean can. However, in many press briefings I have seen both get tempermental.

T.B.
http://conservativeissues.com
Balancing out Politics

asking the question, "are Democrats capable of thinking for themselves?".

ronnie was the winner because he put together a few coherent sentences and didn't fall over. expectations for bush will be lowered as they were in 2000

Please pay attention. I don't mean this in a partisan sense.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

I am delighted to have a conservative among us who appears to be interested in discussion, not disruption.

:toast:

Julie

Even when attacked by 5 or 6 other people. Why would he lose his cool with Bush?

Just because he has legitimate and strong stands on things doesn't mean he's going to be a raving lunatic.

Political spin, etc.

About Being Stubborn for Stubborn's sake.

He was stubborn at the debate, then came out yesterday and today and apologized. If he could have said at the debate what he said this morning on GMA, he would have looked great.

A leader's strength is being able to admit mistakes and move forward from them. * can't do that - he never admits mistakes - that is one reason people are growing to disapprove of him.

Dean has to find a way - humor, directness or body movement or something to soften his mantra - so he can be able to handle these kinds of situations.

Dean has so much more integrity than Bush does. He has more education than Bush does, and he has much more courage than Bush does. Bush is, in effect, a cheap imitation of what Dean is and represents.

How can I explain this? Dean is old money/old money, a real fiscal conservative from hundreds of years back.


Bush is "old money"/NEW MONEY, a pretend fiscal conservative who has been able to borrow and squander large amounts of money and who continues to do so at the American taxpayers' expense.

Both have ancestors who were on the Mayflower. One is a fiscal conservative, the other is not. One does not choose to flash or waste his money, and the other does.

And I am only going into the fiscal philosophies here--other philosophies enter into the scheme clearly. But that's for another night; it's late here and I have to find the hay pile.

Good night!
--jk

Dean is much to intellectual to win the sheep over.

I cant think of anyone besides Clark(being a uber soldier and all) and maybe maybe Lieberman(Being a strongly religious and pro Israeli guy) that would have a chance to win the sheeple.

As a disclaimer I'm a Deanie

"to<o> intellectual" is not among them, even from Yankee-bashin Zell. You're thinking of Kerry, or maybe the Rhodes scholar.

"He found amusement in people who pontificated and didn’t have much patience with that sort of thing," said <fellow Yale keg partier> Knight.

:shrug:

The question was how to win over Bush so the Sheep can understand.

See this is what would happen.

Dean: Mr President during your leadership we've lost 3 million jobs, our economy has gone down while the deficit has soared.. I have a solution that would not ONLY get our economy going the basis of it would be to employ people.

Bush: *smirk smirk* hehe, 911.. Al quaida.. I am a religious man. I'm a man of the people. *smirk*

Dean: Mr President as I said not ONLY would the entire basis of this plan be to employ people, these jobs would have a guaranteed health insurance!

Bush: *picking his nose* See.. I'm a religious man.. I'm a man of the people.

911. I want YOU to use YOUR money.. not the goverment to use it. *smirk smirk*

Election day: Bush wins with 49% of the votes

expectations anymore...we NOW.. KNOW.. he is incompetent.

Al "Tree Stump" Gore reputedly lost the debates.

One trying to outsmirk the other. Tweedlydum and Tweedlydee.

Dean is wretched. I felt this long before the flag flap, and I fervently hope he does NOT get the nomination.

Karl Rove knows his master is an idiot and will not put him in a position to lose. Maybe it's just my natural Irish pessimism but I'm thinking they will allow only, like, 2 debates with pre-approved questions. Bush will be allowed to paint Dean as an abortion providing peace-nik socialist and Dean will be held back by Judy Woodruff or whoever else is controlling things. The debates will work against us.

You do two things. You say that you will debate anytime anywhere. Then yuo do a media blitz. Bush will never do interviews on any TV stations unless they are pre-recorded. You just put the candidate on TV, Radio, and the internet every minute of the day. Free press baby.

cuff...he needs "lots" .. of prep time...I can see it all now..Dean saying..I am ready to debate..bring it on! and chicken shit
saying hes too busy to debate because he's involved in securing our nation.

Just throwing it out as something to think about.

"There will be no live debate. You know where the pResident stands by now. You know where I stand. The differences are clear. There's nothing to be discussed between the two of us. There's nothing more to be said. There's no need for further discussion."

In other words, DISMISS Commander Codpiece and his "opinions" right from the git-go. He's irrelevant to any discussion of the direction this country must take. Set the agenda. And just refuse to play when Bunnypants will already be spotted ten debate points by the media, anyway, just because he manages to stand there without drooling all over himself.

Obviously, such a tactic would be spun by Rover and the WH as indicating that the Dem is "afraid" to debate Our Glorious Leader. I think this could be PRE-spun. Either way, the idea is to put BushCo on the defensive -- right off the bat. :evilgrin:

It wouldn't matter if Bush stood there with that smirk on his face and made barnyard noises to the counterpoint of Winston Churchill. It would be reported as a Bush victory. "Bush appeals to agricultural sector."

It wouldn't matter if he was debating Martin Luther King, Jr., or FDR, or Jesus f-ing Christ. The media would report him as the winner.

I am so completely disgusted...when will people see that the boy emporer has no clothes?? :mad:

So does the media. Just like they did Bush.

Your support of your candidate or your scorn for Dean?

Don't forget, we have a couple hundred posts here to help us decide.

Dean comes off like a "regular Joe" which is what people say Bush was like in debates with Gore. Gore had all the facts yet kept coming off like the guy who was teacher's pet. While Dean comes off as a regular guy he also has a better grasp of what is going on than Bush does.

Without having rabid, desperate people attacking him from all sides at the same time, he'll do better.

last night, but I envision the debates to be very similar to that.

For supporters of other candidates it is an emphatic no, and an undoubted yes for Dean supporters.

As the front runner, Dean has been the only one who has taken any fire consistantly. When Clark first burst on the scene and threatened the pack they drew the knives and some of that shine was knocked off Clark. Dean still takes the heat, and it is brutal, but he holds ground. Could any of the others? Clark keeps his head down now, but what will happen when the opposition attacks?

The Right-Wing Sub-Media are all going to annoint him "winner" no matter what he does. As we've seen, Corporate TV Pravda follows the Right-Wing Sub-Media like a dog on a leash, so they, too will follow, the "conventional wisdom".

God, I miss living in a Free Country and a Free Press. At least Totalitarianism is still busy at the top, reducing opposition and giving us a little more time down here at the "little people" level to live like we are still free.