Auntie Pinko off the mark

She warns of the "inherent dangers of forming assumptions based on generalizations and emotions" only to fall right into the same trap.

She claims "many unions seem to have grown to define themselves solely in terms of their ability to negotiate increasingly more favorable compensation and working conditions for their members", which is again another myth feuled by the company store called Corporate America. Unions strive for safety, the finest training, and a meager slice of the pie for their members. To say they are short-sided is a slap in the face to every worker who, over the last 3 decades, have given concession after concession only to asked to give more time and time again.

Where is the accountabilty for the companies. 92000 steelworkers lose there medical ins. because the company cant afford the cost. Guess what? That same company signed these contracts, with there team of lawyers present every step of the way. There was always money for the ceos and their ilk, and always money for the shareholders, but as usual the stakeholders are left hungry.

Perhaps questions of union matters should be left to those of us who have sat across the table from a half dozen ivy league lawyers trying to squeeze every nickel out of the workers, so Ken Lay can have another billion dollars.

Unions in america are forced to jump through legal hoops that no other organization or group have to. Elaine Chao, who has deep intersts to the shipping industry, should have reclused herself from the longshore LOCKOUT (NOT STRIKE), but of course she did not. I heard from TV and radio how, "the average longshoreman makes over 100000 a year." LIE: The highest paid hourly rate was under $27 an hour. DId a few make over 100K? Yep, and they worked massive amounts of overtime to get it too.

too cosy with management, or corrupt generally, but those aren't problems inherent in unions.

Solidarity forever! The union makes us strong!

The biggest reason I sometimes think Gephardt might be a good President is union support. We've got to get someone talking strong on unions again.

One suggestion though, sometimes people see that $27 an hour figure and think Wohoo! When they see $56,000 a year, they know it's just a living, a comfortable living, but not get rich time.

Ain`t caca if you live on the west coast. My cousin makes $21.00 per hour and lives near San Fran and he struggles to make ends meet. $1200.00 a month rent.

$56000 may be comfortable in some areas, but not for any west coast worker!

As in, not getting the power shut off because your vehicle broke down and your credit card is maxed and what are you going to do now! Comfortable, not rich. That extra $6 an hour would cover most of that rent and ease your cousins' struggles quite a bit. Most of us grew up comfortable, even if we wore hand-me-downs. I guess it's all in ones' perspective.

The american dream brought to you by UNOINS:

A living wage
a living pension
medical benifits
40 hour weeks
8 hour days
safe workplace
protection from: racial harassment
sexual harassment
manager harassment
corporate greed
family leave (FMLA)
cost of living increases

All brought to you by Unions.

If you're arguing with me, I sure can't figure out why.

:thumbsup:

When Samuel Gompers was asked what unions want, he famously said "More." This framed the debate in the wrong way. There's no resolution to that kind of an agenda.

Like it or not, people often perceive higher union wages as coming out of their pockets. Fairly or not, if you pay an electrician over $1,000 for a four-hour job (like my girlfriend recently did), people blame the rates on unionization and look for nonunion providers or unlicensed people doing side work. It's a matter of capturing the value of service in the mind of the customer, and unions have never been good at it. The immediate task might be contract negotiations, but the longer-term task requires the cooperation of customers, politicans, and society.

What Gompers should have said was "We want enough." And in addition to increased wages, he should have worked for part ownership of the company by the workers and a seat on the board of directors. That's the only way to get everyone involved on the same page.

Like all the failed ESOP Plans of the 70s-and 80s

There is not an electrician in the country who make $250.00 an hour.

Anyone who would trust the safety of their loved ones to a "side worker" or "unlicensed" tradesmen is a fool.

It's funny how people focus so much on unions, talking about how getting more compensation for workers is bad, while they accept as moral and ethical the lengths to which corporations go to get more compensation for the owners of corporations and for the managers of corporations.

The bias inherent in the public discussion of unions is so blatant that it is disgusting.

The REAL danger to the US economy and to the well being of working Americans comes from short-sighted corporations whose greedy management is blinded by their desire for maximum compensation for themselves and/or the owners, and ideological obsession with degrading the people who actually create the wealth of this country and the world: working people.

:pals:

Thought about trying to get my partner to comment on it, but she's too busy trying to force companies to pay their @#$! ERISA contributions.

Now that the globalization of corporate greed has killed manufacturing, the future of labor is in the service sector--because those jobs *cannot* be shipped overseas. If Auntie Pinko lives in the Chicago area, I would be delighted to invite her down to the Congress Hotel to chat with some of the workers who have been picketing there 24/7 about what they're fighting for.

The idea that it's all about wages is one of the most damaging misconceptions about labor. Organization is, above all, about having a voice in the workplace. Sometimes that means agitating for better pay; most of the time it just means being able to preserve your rights and your dignity from an institution that views them as inconsistent with maximizing their profits. Having a voice is even more important in the service sector, where your continued employment depends on your ability to smile and be pleasant while you're doing a demeaning job for low wages and no health benefits.

All institutions, if they are established for long enough, eventually become more concerned with protecting themselves than protecting the goals for which they were originally established. Unions are not immune to that, and as you get to know more about how they work, it does start to remind you of that axiom about laws and sausage. BUT, they are still one of the few institutions left in this country in a position to make any real difference for working-class Americans, and to see them getting blamed for what the corporate masters have done to this country is very depressing.

One of the things my partner talked about during one of her big cases, which made a big impression on me, was the fact that unions allow people who have intelligence and talent but relatively little formal education to advance to positions of leadership and responsibility that no corporation would give them. This strikes me as something incredibly valuable, and a possible means of eventually producing some national political leadership that would be more in touch with the needs of working-class America.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

P.S. Nice avatar!

You lost me at the laws and sausage though lol

If a Union is fighting to protect itself, isn`t it still, in every sense, protecting the workers?

"Sausage is a matter of trust." :shrug:

:think: :think: :think: :think: :think: :think:

This kind of stuff amazes me. If "liberals" or "leftists" made analogous comments about African Americans or women, they'd be skinned alive. But, as long as it's aimed at workers -- a.k.a., "sheeple", "idiots", etc. -- it seems to be OK.

Nevermind that workers are 60 percent of the population. Nevermind that they are attacked every day (by both Republicans and Democrats, I might add).

"Autie Pinko" should change her name to "Auntie Yellow"; there is nothing "pink" about her except her stationery.

Martin

to Walt Williams on the Pigman`s show today. In the local employment

office!!!!AAAARGGGHHHHH He was going on and on how mass layoffs are

good for America.

"Less farmers feed more people"
"Companies owe nothing to workers"
"Less switchboard operators make more phone switches."
"Guess what, All these people have BETTER jobs now"

I finally lost it, telling the man if I had to listen to that fool

any longer, I might get violent. The man says, "Ya, I miss Rush too."

This nimrod is a disabled vet, who also saw both his brothers lose

there pension to another closed steel mill. ( A mill that had the

money to pay 5 ceos multimillion dollars the decade it took them to

run it into the ground!) Talk about dildoheads!