Will Indian IT tech's pay off America's debts?

America is in debt to the tune of $7 trillion, or about $70,000 for each and every American household. The lion's share of this enormous liability created through defense spending and the interest accumulated on the defense created debt.

$70,000 per household. Money that was spent essentially for two reasons- to protect "our" interests in Middle Eastern oil. And, to protect the world from communism. Keeping the world safe for capitalism (and capitalists) is an expensive business. How much money and property do you think the US military saved for our noble capitalists from the peasants of third world countries?

Zbignew Brezinski said that "without McConnel Douglas there could be no McDonalds". Well, my kids are in debt up to their eyeballs after America's twenty year credit card spree. But we kept the world safe for supersized exploitation. How are they going to pay for the death of Reagan's "Evil Empire" wearing a paper hat? When they won't be able to understand how to use Curry McWindow's?

Will Indian IT tech's pay off America's debts? Not at $4 an hour they won't. Nor will we. Xenophobe? I think not.



PART II: Did Mexican Assembly line employees shed blood for the war reparations that made billions for DuPont and Exxon?

PART III: Did Chinese factory workers pay the taxes which created the world's best PUBLIC schools? Schools that molded the most inventive and industrious people in the history of the planet?

PART IV: Did Taiwanese textile workers fund the fairest court system, most trusted economic system and strongest currency creating the strongest economic climate in world history?

PART V: Crabs in a barrel.

and thought I had somehow gotten on the Freeper site by mistake.

Judging by the 'logic' and the chest-beating, that's where it belongs.

You gave me the same impression.

You want global corporations to be able to use the governments and the peoples of nations against each other to drive wages down and eliminate environmental regulations. I am pro-labor. You are pro-corporation.

Why should we be left with the debt of defense spening that benefited the big corporations?

the world pay for YOUR ambitions?

They didn't ask for you to do all that.

The US is no longer an isolationist country, doing it's own thing within it's own borders. There are bases and interests around the world...employing Americans I might add.

But if a country wants to have a global reach, it also ends up with global problems.

Work able to be done on-site by the natives...for less.

With the net, work able to be done at a distance by natives elsewhere...for less.

Do you really think any business or company, no matter the size is going to turn that chance down for a chance to be noble?

And the natives all know they are being paid less than Americans would be for the same job, and they know that their work, and the money saved by them doing it is going for the greater glory of America, not their country.

So if in the meantime, they can bootstrap themselves up by getting a raft of new jobs and learning as they go, are you surprised they do so? They have to get something out of the deal you know.

You want to be global policemen? You want empire?

It costs.

empire and these "free trade" scams.

NAFTA etc. are all about taking away the sovereingty of poorer nations as well as the complete subjugation and destruction of the middle class here in the U.S.

These scams call for the elimination of environmental protections and a race to the bottom in terms of wages. They do not benefit anyone but the global capitalist pirates like G.E. (who pays no taxes in the U.S. anymore).

is hardly a scam. It's simply a trade agreement between nations, like the many others you have.

It has to be signed by sovereign nations, and has provisions to protect that sovereignty, so it has nothing to do with any subjugation of anyone.

The actual figures produced by NAFTA's implementation show that it's doing a good job by all 3 countries....although of course there is some opposition to it in all 3 countries. Mostly the unemployed.

It does not call for the elimination of any such thing as environmental protection, nor does it force wages down. It does provide for competition...and for the first time you are facing some competition.

I thought Americans believed in competition? That's what you keep telling the rest of the world.

However in practice, the minute the field is level, and there actually IS competition....suddenly you want all the doors closed again, and the field tipped in your favor.

"The actual figures produced by NAFTA's implementation show that it's doing a good job by all 3 countries....although of course there is some opposition to it in all 3 countries. "

Go ahead, please show me these figures.

NAFTA advocates will always toss around numbers showing that since NAFTA, our exports to Mexico, and our imports from Mexico have both gone UP.
what they don't toss around are the reasons for the increases.
OUR exports to Mexico now consist mostly of raw materials and components for products that used to be made in the U.S....Our imports from Mexico consist of the finished products that used to be assembled in the U.S...

yay NAFTA!...

the world pay for YOUR ambitions?

They didn't ask for you to do all that.

The US is no longer an isolationist country, doing it's own thing within it's own borders. There are bases and interests around the world...employing Americans I might add.

But if a country wants to have a global reach, it also ends up with global problems.

I never asked to be the world's policeman. But, my kids will have to pay for it. And, the same corporations who are shipping these jobs overseas were the ones who benefitted. They are leaving us with the debt and jumping ship.

Work able to be done on-site by the natives...for less.

With the net, work able to be done at a distance by natives elsewhere...for less.

Do you really think any business or company, no matter the size is going to turn that chance down for a chance to be noble?

No. But I have the right to petition my government to tariff, tax and cut funding to companies who do this. Say maybe tax companies/products based on a combination of the tax/wages/environmental costs of their product. Even the playing field and bring wages up overseas instead of bringing them down here.

And the natives all know they are being paid less than Americans would be for the same job, and they know that their work, and the money saved by them doing it is going for the greater glory of America, not their country.

So if in the meantime, they can bootstrap themselves up by getting a raft of new jobs and learning as they go, are you surprised they do so? They have to get something out of the deal you know.

Crabs in a barrel.

You want to be global policemen? You want empire?

It costs.

Don't blame me for what my corporatist government has done. But, also, don't say that you and the rest of the world haven't benefitted from the contributions of the US, AND HER PEOPLE, either.

you've benefitted mightily from the very thing you decry.

And while you as an individual may not want empire, or the role of global policeman, that's what you as a nation have done.

You can petition all you want, but businesses aren't about to do any such thing. And if you could force wages up overseas, business would simply automate.

At the moment it's cheaper to have people make cars than the initial outlay on robotics, even if you have to move the plant to lower wage countries. If that changes, then you either pay as much for a car as you currently do for a house....or the line gets automated.

Foreigners aren't going to hand everything to America, and wait for crumbs. They take what they can get for awhile in a one sided deal...which many of them used to be, before free trade... and bootstrap themselves up. Of course this will cause some dislocation to you. About the same amount of dislocation you've caused them.

The US has benefitted for years from the contributions...willing and unwilling...of the rest of the world. The world, in fact, keeps you afloat.

All too often the US forgets about reciprocity. It DOES work both ways you know.

I read your response, and I though a Freeper posted here by mistake.

Well, that's about the extent of your rebuttal, isn't it?

you missed the part about no more right or left wing...and how you have to deal with the problem at hand without the ideological baggage.

Look at the problem as it exists. Lose the luggage.

"Look at the problem as it exists. Lose the luggage."

One time, at the airport, they lost my luggage. I don't think it was a good thing, do you?

"One time, at the airport, they lost my luggage. I don't think it was a good thing, do you?"


Well, when it happened to me I went off to the office and found it waiting for me in my room back at the hotel. So it saved me the trouble of having to lug my luggage.

Until the next round of tech research delivers them; there is only 'one' way to improve their bottom line and that is through through a template of: creative accounting, padding bills, the further distribution of monies in fact to the upper or super rich and the further deterioration of wages living or otherwise hence: the flood of off-shore/out sourcing/privatization and such but no.

Already not paying their fair share to support even the infrastructure here in America by way of armies of highly skilled and well paid tax lawyers; the rich are frittering the rest away for none but their golden parachutes ~

I think that America The Beautiful should not validate their parking tickets until they decide where they would place their true allegiance.

My opinion...

Could we get away from the outdated ideology?

There is no 'left-wing' and 'right-wing' anymore. Those terms became invalid when the Cold war ended.

There is no 'pro-labor' or 'pro-corporation' any more either.

You can't just pick a side, and cheer on your team.

That's the 'MY.....(insert cause here)right, or wrong'

How about practical solutions to ordinary problems....without all the baggage?

You do the best for the most people in your country, tempered by the global forces now in play.

This means you can't snatch and grab...you have to play nice in the world sandbox. And do things that are mutually beneficial to both countries.

Globalization is lurching about right now...because it's only applied in fits and starts....and so it often has unintended consequences. This will smooth out as time goes on, and problems are resolved.

But going home, and slamming the door shut is no longer an option either.

You're obviously exempt from losing your job, and I'd like to know what that is. I'm considering switching careers, and would like to not have to worry about globalization anymore, like you.

Run a business on the web. Then you'll be part of globalization, instead of working against it.

So should we ALL run businesses on the web? Or just the winners?

when disgruntled, out of work American cybercowboys start destabilizing the internet.

So far, we've only seen the results of bored hacker teenagers looking for cheap thrills. Just wait until adult pissed off programmers decide to get even with these corporate bastards (especially when many of them wrote the original code). Then we'll see how effective having their programmers thousands of miles away is.

Only maximising the scant resources and fully maturized portfolios and profits remaining in the hands of a very few. That is 'globalization'. Having kids in Afganistan, or Venezuela, or Shanghai, or Punjab, or a newly created 'free enterprise zone' in China, or you name the squalid locale; making tennis shoes for white yuppie dweebs is not a contribution to goods & services of the nature to which I allude.

Get with the program, Holmes ~

http://desip.igc.org/malthus

about $22.5 billion dollars in Social Security and Taxes per year. They usually cannot get the social security back when they leave the country.

One estimate is that Indian IT workers contribute about $500 million to the Social Security Administration per year.

http://www.businessworldindia.com/innerSections.aspx?SectionId=227

...Take the tax issue. In a paper published in 2000, Harvard economists Mihir Desai, Devesh Kapur and John McHale have argued that the spoils from the international movement of labour need to be shared more equitably. H1B workers, for example, pay a range of social security taxes to the US government, but do not derive any
substantial benefits since they are temporary labour. They pay but get nothing in return — neither social security nor tax refunds.

The three economists have estimated the size of the loot. It was (hold your breath) $22.5 billion a year.....

With that incredible windfall of 22 billion a year, devided by the number of people who have lost their jobs to India, why thats, uh, oh fuck, a drop in the bucket. Never mind. I take back my taking it back.

it comes time to collect it so I don't think that's such a good defense.

And some $500,000,000 to the SSA? Where's the rest of it? The wages themselves? Gone into that economy and not this one? Bush has taken trillions out of the SSA with his rob the poor tactics. It'll take a good deal more than that to make it right. And several generations if ever unless all thrown out and dealt with with Americans in mind instead...not just the rich.

Since Reagan argued we were to "take control of our own destinys" we are all become 'temporary labor'. But this is just a "gender gentler" way of saying:

Don't Let The Door Hit You In The Ass On The Way Out ~

The soon-to-come election is already beginning to gear up. I suspect that the number one issue in that election will be jobs.

If Democrats can credibly seize this issue, and, better yet, solve this issue of getting Americans back to work in well paying, secure jobs, we can get back (and keep) the White House, the House, and the Senate.

If, however, we don't get to work on this issue - we will not get back the White House. We will fall further behind in the House and Senate. We will see more of the pResident's selections in the Supreme Court.

In the end, pocketbook issues will trump all others - and I do mean all others.

So, we have a choice between Democrats in control and four more years just like we've had. Simple choice, isn't it?

Thanks, theriverburns, for your post.

Some of you people need to drop this old-fashioned notion that liberals are supposed to look out for the interests of the workers.

It's a brave new world, baby, and if you have a problem with exporting jobs, then you are nothing more than a Nazi.

Get with the program, old-timers!

(Geez, did you ever imagine you would hear so-called lefties singing the praises of corporate neofeudalism?)

"What's good for General Motor's is good for America." Outdated. Passe. That slogan was from when GM was the biggest employer in the US.

Now our biggest employer is Wal Mart. (no b.s.) So, rightfully we ought to say, (this'll look real good on a bumper sticker)

"What's good for Wal Mart is good for America"

I cannot think of anything more appropriate to exemplify the right wing's globalist legacy than that fact. That the US's largest employer has mutated from GM and high paying jobs building well engineered products to minimum wage jobs selling cheap trinkets and bad duds imported from Taiwan.

"Some of you people need to drop this old-fashioned notion that liberals are supposed to look out for the interests of the workers."

Ya know?! I have been called a Freeper, a Xenophobe, a bigot and an idiot over a 24 hour period by the globalists. AFAIC, only the "idiot" slam has any substance.

...and the competition has been fierce lately. :puke:

The lion's share of this enormous liability created through defense spending and the interest accumulated on the defense created debt.

So what in Cthulhu's name have Indian IT techs got to do with it? Why exactly are you not asking e.g. "Will Iceland's fishers pay off America's debts?"

world's best PUBLIC schools
the fairest court system, most trusted economic system

Which country are you talking about...?

The America I grew up in. Pre Reagan. And pre globalization.

The public school I went to, in one of Cleveland's poorest neighborhoods, regularly beat (competed with anyways) the Jesuit school, St Ignatius, in both basketball and chess. And they recruited from all over. Our parents were mostly 2nd generation eastern and southern European immigrants, Hispanics and African Americans. I watched an entire world collapse when steel/rubber/auto industries packed up and left for GREENER pastures.

Our public schools were good. And egalitarian. So were our public libraries. Jobs paid well and an average man could own a house and expect to retire in relative comfort.

Is that too much to ask for? For blue collar guys like me? Or for workers anywhere in the world? I'll say it again. If globalization brings our standards down instead of others up, than it needs to be corrected. Needs to be fought.


Oh, yeah, and hi Acerbic. I bet you're a hoot at parties.

http://www.vdare.com/guzzardi/outsourcing_america.htm

So gee, what's left for us? As the Microsoft guy says, they can always get them cheaper than us. So what's left? Burger flipper and sex worker. We will have 1% of the US living in obscene luxury, and the rest of us living in shacks. And this is good for the rest of the world? Losing American democracy (even such as it is) would be devastating to the world.

http://www.vdare.com/guzzardi/outsourcing_america.htm

"GOP Future Depends on Winning Larger Share of the White Vote.

Here at VDARE, we've discussed repeatedly http://www.vdare.com/people.htm how dire will be the long-term impact of immigration on the Republican Party. It's crucial to understand, however, that the long-term has not quite arrived. The GOP is not yet held hostage. It still has a window of opportunity - definitely stretching through the next recession but maybe not to the recession after that - to save itself by changing the immigration laws. This can be seen by examining the 2000 election results closely."
http://www.vdare.com/sailer/gop_future.htm

So gee, what a good source of "information" for "liberals". Those Indians really need to be kept out from here and down and underdeveloped where they are.

Coming up next: loud, repeated cries and whines "It's not racism! It's not racism! It's not racism! ..." :eyes: